"Top 10 Players Not in the Hall of Fame" (1 Viewer)

[pghrob]

Henry Ellard played a long, long time. Never won a SB.

814 rec. (17th all-time) for 13777 yards (7th all-time) and 65 td.'s.

Was top 4 in rec. yards 4 times

1988 NFL 1414 (1)

1989 NFL 1382 (4)

1990 NFL 1294 (2)

1994 NFL 1397 (2)

Was good, not great kick returner.

3 time pro-bowler, 2 time all pro.

I say he is one of the very good ones, but I think appropriately waiting to get in. In the end, I think he likely is not great enough to get in.

 

[Tau837]

Watters > Craig

I agree. For whatever reason, Watters is underrated and Craig is overrated.

 

[Tau837]

If you went to Canton and didn't know anything about professional football...would you even know there was such a thing as a punter. I understand that they aren't as important as a QB or WR. But just as a guard isn't flashy but can make or break a team, I think punters can make the difference in a game.

The impact on a single game, much less over a season or career, of a starting guard vs. a punter is not even remotely close. That's the problem. Elite special teamers make far, far fewer impact plays than elite offensive and defensive players. This has been thoroughly discussed in previous threads debating Vinatieri, Guy, and Tasker, among others.

 

[Tau837]

Where are Russ Grimm or Joe Jacoby? Sure I'm a homer, but unless I'm mistaken, there aren't any offensive linemen on this list, which is typical of the HOF which is overwhelmingly weighted in favor of the glamor posistions rather than the guys up front who make it all happen.

I don't disagree about offensive linemen in general, but I don't see a compelling case for either Grimm or Jacoby.Grimm only started 114 games in his career, so it was relatively brief, spanning 11 seasons. He made 4 Pro Bowls and was a 3 time 1st team All Pro. He made the 1980s All Decade team. I'm pretty sure most, if not all, HOF OL had more compelling achievements. That said, he'll probably get in eventually IMO.Jacoby started 148 games over 13 seasons, made 4 Pro Bowls and was a 2 time 1st team All Pro. He also made the 1980s All Decade team. To me, he falls short. And, yes, I know they were part of the Hogs...

 

[Native]

Ricky Watters? Seriously? RICKY WATTERS?!?! First team AP All Pros- 0Second team AP All Pros- 0First team UPI All Conference- 0Second team UPI All Conference- 3What does this mean? Well, the AP names 2 first-team and 2 second-team All Pro RBs, meaning, according to the Associated Press, Ricky Watters was NEVER ONCE IN HIS ENTIRE CAREER one of the four best RBs in the entire NFL. The UPI names 2 first-team and 2 second-team All Conference RBs, meaning that Ricky Watters was NEVER ONCE IN HIS ENTIRE CAREER one of the two best RBs in his entire conference, and he only three times broke into the top 4. Remember, now, that there were 14 teams per conference back then, meaning almost a third of all starting RBs made the UPI's second-team all conference list or better. Pro-Football Weekly, The Sporting News, and the Pro Football Writers also kept All Pro lists, and Watters' name never once graced any of those lists at any point during his career. (a note: the UPI stopped naming All Conference lists after 1996, as far as I can tell, but I doubt Watters would have made any later lists since he couldn't even make the pro bowl after that point in his career).Watters was never once one of the top 2 RBs in the NFL. He was never once one of the top 4 RBs in the NFL. Watters was never once one of the top 2 RBs in his own conference. Hell, only three times in his career did Watters crack the top 4 RBs in his conference. Only three times in his career did he (barely) crack the list of the top 8 RBs in the NFL... how the hell does he crack the list of the top 8 players most deserving of HoF induction?Now, maybe you could argue that the reason he never made those lists is because he faced some brutal competition. Fair enough, I suppose... but Terrell Davis faced the exact same competition and posted 3 first-team AP All Pros, an NFL MVP, and two offensive PoYs. And this is completely ignoring the postseason difference between the two. Outrageous. Now, you want to argue that Terrell Davis doesn't belong on that list, that's fine... but if Davis doesn't, then Watters CERTAINLY doesn't.And Gradishar in the "honorable mentions"? The guy has the best statistics of any LB in history, headlined a defense with a nickname but no HoFers, a Superbowl appearance, a DPoY award, and scads of all pro honors. In his best season, Gradishar averaged more tackles per game than the #1 and #2 tacklers in the NFL last year... COMBINED. I mean, his numbers are so off-the-page above his peers that I doubt they'll never be matched. Ray Lewis is praised as a tackling machine for averaging 150 tackles per year. Pro-rate his numbers over a 16-game season and Gradishar, for his career, averaged 256. Unbelievable. I have yet to see anyone give me a single reason why Gradishar shouldn't have been in the Hall 20 years ago.

Very Watters shouldnt even be in the discussion and Gradishar absolutely should. Two other guys that NEVER gets any mention by anyone: 1) Jake Scott, the safety from the Dolphins in the 70's. 5X pro bowler, Super Bowl MVP and a higher Interception-Per-Game rate than any player in the last 50 years. 2) Lemar Parrish - DB Bengals. 8X pro bowler with double digit career return TD's - only Deion and Brian Mitchell have more. As for Derrick Thomas, its not a matter of if but when. I think thats a given.

 

[Native]

I'd love to see a few classes of just defenders get in to even things out.

I think they tried to begin the process of correcting this last year when they took three cornerbacks in one class - Emmitt Thomas, Darrell Green and ROger Wherli. Before that, there were only seven cornerbacks in the ENTIRE Hall of Fame. Lets hope they continue to take some of the more neglected positions before enshrining more QB's, RB's and WR's.

 

[trader jake]

Gotta agree on Jerry Kramer. His play made him deserving.

His book Instant Replay helped keep his team legendary.

 

[jasonbay]

Two words...

**** LEBEAU

I came into this thread to post this.

 

[pghrob]

Others perhaps worthy of a brief discussion:

Karl Mecklenberg, LB DEN

Donnie Shell, S PIT

Neil Smith, DE KC

All were very good, not sure they were great.

Shell being a member of 4 SB champion teams seems to be a snub.

 

[hoochiemama]

Where are Russ Grimm or Joe Jacoby? Sure I'm a homer, but unless I'm mistaken, there aren't any offensive linemen on this list, which is typical of the HOF which is overwhelmingly weighted in favor of the glamor posistions rather than the guys up front who make it all happen.

I don't disagree about offensive linemen in general, but I don't see a compelling case for either Grimm or Jacoby.Grimm only started 114 games in his career, so it was relatively brief, spanning 11 seasons. He made 4 Pro Bowls and was a 3 time 1st team All Pro. He made the 1980s All Decade team. I'm pretty sure most, if not all, HOF OL had more compelling achievements. That said, he'll probably get in eventually IMO.Jacoby started 148 games over 13 seasons, made 4 Pro Bowls and was a 2 time 1st team All Pro. He also made the 1980s All Decade team. To me, he falls short. And, yes, I know they were part of the Hogs...

I was scrolling this whole thread ready to add Grimm. Glad someone beat me to it. Randy White in the HOF. Grimm ate Randy's lunch every time. Enough said.

 

[SSOG]

If you went to Canton and didn't know anything about professional football...would you even know there was such a thing as a punter. I understand that they aren't as important as a QB or WR. But just as a guard isn't flashy but can make or break a team, I think punters can make the difference in a game. I think if the HOF reflects the best in professional football, that should include those who really stand out among their peers. I think Guy does qualify, based on his longevity, success and consistency. Oh, did I mention that play in the Super Bowl? What a momentum-changer that could have been. But even if it isn't Guy, I think somebody in the league's history has to be worthy of mention at every position. Otherwise...why pay any of them anything but the league minimum?

Yes, if I went to Canton, I would know punters existed. There's more to Canton than just the busts. There are record accomplishments. For instance, the shoe that Jason Elam wore when he kicked his 63-yarder is in the Hall of Fame. I'm sure there are plenty of displays that show punters, punts, and/or the act of punting. When one of the primary arguments for electing a guy is because his position exists, then I question how good of a case he really has for the HoF.

I suspect Terrell Davis will rank pretty high on this list.

Very good perception. You suspect something about a list that is already posted, but yet the thing you suspect is no where near the list?

At the time he typed that, the program was airing live for the first time, and only two names had been revealed.Sorry about screwing up your stellar sarcasm.

What's the moral of the story, kids? That's right- the only difference between a Tool and a Fool is that little bitty line that starts in the middle of the letter.

Watters > Craig

I agree. For whatever reason, Watters is underrated and Craig is overrated.

Maybe, but neither one is anywhere NEAR HoF caliber.