Torry Holt (1 Viewer)

[sweeetness]

How far do you think Holt has fallen in keeper/dynasty leagues? I realize there are a few threads on this already but most relate to his redraft status. According to many forecasted dynasty rankings he's around 6th. I have him ranked 12th. Guys I would put ahead of him are:

Steve Smith

Chad Johnson

Larry Fitzgerald

Reggie Wayne

Calvin Johnson

Roy Williams

Terrell Owens

Lee Evans

Javon Walker

Andre Johnson

Anquan Boldin

Am I reading into his injury too much or is he overvalued on most ADP's right now? Thoughts?

Which of the above WR's would you NOT take over Holt in a KEEPER/DYNASTY league?

 

[PantherPower]

I am concerned about him too. Was offered Holt and Hagan for Randy Moss and Marshall in a dynasty league, and while it looks like a good offer on paper, with this knee still swelling up, and Holt saying he may not be the same again, I'm not sure if I should accept it. Any Rams homers with opinions on his condition and prospects this year?

 

[sofakinggood]

How far do you think Holt has fallen in keeper/dynasty leagues? I realize there are a few threads on this already but most relate to his redraft status. According to many forecasted dynasty rankings he's around 6th. I have him ranked 12th. Guys I would put ahead of him are:

Steve Smith

Chad Johnson

Larry Fitzgerald

Reggie Wayne

Calvin Johnson

Roy Williams

Terrell Owens

Lee Evans

Javon Walker

Andre Johnson

Anquan Boldin

Am I reading into his injury too much or is he overvalued on most ADP's right now? Thoughts?

Which of the above WR's would you NOT take over Holt in a KEEPER/DYNASTY league?

Players in BOLD are the ones I would NOT take before Holt in any format

 

[mozzy84]

I am concerned about him too. Was offered Holt and Hagan for Randy Moss and Marshall in a dynasty league, and while it looks like a good offer on paper, with this knee still swelling up, and Holt saying he may not be the same again, I'm not sure if I should accept it. Any Rams homers with opinions on his condition and prospects this year?

hmmm I just offered moss, jordan and henderson for holt and hes thinking about it. Holt is a tough guy and I'm not to worried about him I guess, hes still top 8 imo.....

 

[Hellfire Snail]

How far do you think Holt has fallen in keeper/dynasty leagues? I realize there are a few threads on this already but most relate to his redraft status. According to many forecasted dynasty rankings he's around 6th. I have him ranked 12th. Guys I would put ahead of him are:

Steve Smith

Chad Johnson

Larry Fitzgerald

Reggie Wayne

Calvin Johnson

Roy Williams

Terrell Owens

Lee Evans

Javon Walker

Andre Johnson

Anquan Boldin

Am I reading into his injury too much or is he overvalued on most ADP's right now? Thoughts?

Which of the above WR's would you NOT take over Holt in a KEEPER/DYNASTY league?

Players in BOLD are the ones I would NOT take before Holt in any format

In a keeper/dynasty start-up, I would wait until Holt goes and then go after all the bolded guys. I might not draft them before Holt goes, because odds are someone will take him high regardless, but I'd defitely prefer them. Personally I'd be very surprised if Roy Williams and TO don't finish far ahead of him this year...Evans and Walker should be in the same ballpark, and Boldin and AJ are not far behind with much brighter futures.

 

[Kiddnets]

can't speak of the draft - but I own Holt and was in the midst of multiple trade talks with him which completely fell apart after yesterdays news. Now everyone wants to steal him for nothing. I am holding onto him rather than give him up for less value. I think he will be fine this year. Maybe not top 5 but certainly top 10.

 

[Rounders]

I own Holt in a dynasty league and my plan is to move him later this year after he has a few good games.

 

[Yitbos69]

I own Holt in a dynasty league and my plan is to move him later this year after he has a few good games.

As do I.....I plan to employ the same strategy!

 

[Pipes]

How far do you think Holt has fallen in keeper/dynasty leagues? I realize there are a few threads on this already but most relate to his redraft status. According to many forecasted dynasty rankings he's around 6th. I have him ranked 12th. Guys I would put ahead of him are:

Steve Smith

Chad Johnson

Larry Fitzgerald

Reggie Wayne

Calvin Johnson

Roy Williams

Terrell Owens

Lee Evans

Javon Walker

Andre Johnson

Anquan Boldin

Am I reading into his injury too much or is he overvalued on most ADP's right now? Thoughts?

Which of the above WR's would you NOT take over Holt in a KEEPER/DYNASTY league?

Players in BOLD are the ones I would NOT take before Holt in any format

You're nuts if you don't take guys like Roy Williams & Lee Evans ahead of Holt in a dynasty. Those 2 have a very good chance of having better numbers this year than Holt and their careers are on the upswing. Holt's peaked and I'm afraid with a bum knee his numbers are going to start to decline.

 

[gianmarco]

How far do you think Holt has fallen in keeper/dynasty leagues? I realize there are a few threads on this already but most relate to his redraft status. According to many forecasted dynasty rankings he's around 6th. I have him ranked 12th. Guys I would put ahead of him are:

Steve Smith

Chad Johnson

Larry Fitzgerald

Reggie Wayne

Calvin Johnson

Roy Williams

Terrell Owens

Lee Evans

Javon Walker

Andre Johnson

Anquan Boldin

Am I reading into his injury too much or is he overvalued on most ADP's right now? Thoughts?

Which of the above WR's would you NOT take over Holt in a KEEPER/DYNASTY league?

Players in BOLD are the ones I would NOT take before Holt in any format

You're nuts if you don't take guys like Roy Williams & Lee Evans ahead of Holt in a dynasty. Those 2 have a very good chance of having better numbers this year than Holt and their careers are on the upswing. Holt's peaked and I'm afraid with a bum knee his numbers are going to start to decline.

He's peaked, huh? I guess he's toast now. I know those guys have only played 3 years, but both Roy and Evans have career highs of 82 catches. One had 1310 and the other 1292 receiving yds. And both have scored between 7 and 9 TDs all 3 years. That's great.Holt had his worst year since 2000 and STILL caught 93 balls for 1188 yds and 10 TDs last year. He's had TD totals of 10, 9, 10, and 12 the last 4 years (and he missed 2 games in the year he only had 9). Forgive me for not thinking Holt his career is in turmoil. Holt is only 31 and we all know what TO and Harrison are still doing at the ages of 34-35. He will still be an elite WR and this "bum knee" won't keep him from putting up monster #'s yet again.

 

[Keith Lewis]

Answer honestly Gianmarco, Do you own Holt in fantasy leagues, I'd be downright shocked if you didn't. I agree wholeheartedly with Pipes about taking Williams/Evans over Holt in a dynasty league, to me it's a no brainer. Evans was ranked #7 last season with JP freaking Losman throwing him the rock. How exactly do you know his bum knee won't keep him from putting up monster numbers, are you his doctor?

 

[gianmarco]

I own him in 1 of 6 leagues. And I think this is the PERFECT time to buy him low. I'm not saying what I'm saying because I'm a Holt owner. I'm saying what I'm saying because the guy is a complete stud with plenty of productive years left. And I plan on trying to acquire him in several leagues with this news before he hits the field. If I were drafting for a dynasty league and thought others felt the same way as you guys, I'd wait and let Roy and Evans go first and then take Holt a little later and be thrilled.

 

[gman8343]

Holt is only 31 and we all know what TO and Harrison are still doing at the ages of 34-35. He will still be an elite WR and this "bum knee" won't keep him from putting up monster #'s yet again.

How are you so sure about this? Just curious, because knees are generally pretty important to a NFL player.

 

[Keith Lewis]

I own him in 1 of 6 leagues. And I think this is the PERFECT time to buy him low. I'm not saying what I'm saying because I'm a Holt owner. I'm saying what I'm saying because the guy is a complete stud with plenty of productive years left. And I plan on trying to acquire him in several leagues with this news before he hits the field. If I were drafting for a dynasty league and thought others felt the same way as you guys, I'd wait and let Roy and Evans go first and then take Holt a little later and be thrilled.

I"m with you and would take him a little later and be happy about it, I just wouldn't want to overpay with the injury hanging over his head. I guess I am worried about the injury cloud with him, usually this time of year all you hear is "I'm in the best shape of my life". Hearing Holt say he doesn't think his injury will ever be fully healed almost feels like he's lining up his excuses for a predicted drop in production. Very worried, yet I'd buy low and know there is high upside.

 

[gianmarco]

Holt is only 31 and we all know what TO and Harrison are still doing at the ages of 34-35. He will still be an elite WR and this "bum knee" won't keep him from putting up monster #'s yet again.

How are you so sure about this? Just curious, because knees are generally pretty important to a NFL player.

How are you guys so sure that he's going to decline so much? None of us are sure. Funny how people are questioning my opinion on the matter asking if I'm his doctor yet making the assumption that now his production will drop off with no more information than I have. That's the reason there's a discussion. But from what I'm reading and what my opinion on Holt is, I think he's going to be just fine and continue to perform at an elite level. You don't have to agree.

 

[gianmarco]

Answer honestly Gianmarco, Do you own Holt in fantasy leagues, I'd be downright shocked if you didn't. I agree wholeheartedly with Pipes about taking Williams/Evans over Holt in a dynasty league, to me it's a no brainer. Evans was ranked #7 last season with JP freaking Losman throwing him the rock. How exactly do you know his bum knee won't keep him from putting up monster numbers, are you his doctor?

How exactly do you know his bum knee will keep him from putting up monster numbers, are you his doctor?

 

[gianmarco]

Holt is only 31 and we all know what TO and Harrison are still doing at the ages of 34-35. He will still be an elite WR and this "bum knee" won't keep him from putting up monster #'s yet again.

How are you so sure about this? Just curious, because knees are generally pretty important to a NFL player.

Another thing that has been pointed out in another thread. A guy named Kellen Winslow had so much difficulty with his knee that he proclaimed that he would probably never be better than 75% for the rest of his career. He then went out and caught 89 balls last year and finished tied at #2 with Gonzalez last year amongst TE's. These % are completely arbitrary. Saying his knee is 80% or whatever they want to say doesn't mean his #'s will now be 80% of what they should be. Do I know that he's going to do well for sure? Of course not. But if I had to wager on whether or not this injury is enough to drop him out of the top 10, I'd gladly put money that it wouldn't.

 

[sweeetness]

Holt is only 31 and we all know what TO and Harrison are still doing at the ages of 34-35. He will still be an elite WR and this "bum knee" won't keep him from putting up monster #'s yet again.

How are you so sure about this? Just curious, because knees are generally pretty important to a NFL player.

Another thing that has been pointed out in another thread. A guy named Kellen Winslow that had so much difficulty with his knee that he proclaimed that he would probably never be better than 75% for the rest of his career. He then went out and caught 89 balls last year and finished tied at #2 with Gonzalez last year amongst TE's. These % are completely arbitrary. Saying his knee is 80% or whatever they want to say doesn't mean his #'s will now be 80% of what they should be. Do I know that he's going to do well for sure? Of course not. But if I had to wager on whether or not this injury is enough to drop him out of the top 10, I'd gladly put money that it wouldn't.

In a keeper/dynasty league here's how i evaluate 11 players i have ranked higher than Holt:Steve Smith - no explanation needed

Chad Johnson - same

Larry Fitzgerald - young and on an explosive offence in a crap division

Reggie Wayne - with manning for many more years, harrison getting older

Calvin Johnson - i'm told he's a stud in the making, sure i'll buy the hype

Roy Williams - calvin may motivate him to live up to his studlly potential

Terrell Owens - has a young qb who will listen to him, bledsoe/mcnabb/garcia wouldn't take any crap from him, will have a huge this year and will decline after next year

Lee Evans - looking great in the preseason, just needs losman to gain more experience and some more playmakers to take the pressure off

Javon Walker - back to studly status with gunslinger cutler

Andre Johnson - young and ready to take the next step

Anquan Boldin - not sure if arizona can keep both he and fitz happy, may move

all the above guys have issues as noted but are studs in my eyes. some of the older guys will decline in a few years but the way i look at keeper/dynasty leagues is 70% now and 30% future (providing you have a contending team). Owens will be better than Holt this year and next and then will be on a steep decline at age 37. Holt will be better than Owens in a few years but by then they will both be in lower tiers so it won't matter.

This is my explanation for ranking the above 11 ahead of Holt.

Out.

 

[gman8343]

Holt is only 31 and we all know what TO and Harrison are still doing at the ages of 34-35. He will still be an elite WR and this "bum knee" won't keep him from putting up monster #'s yet again.

How are you so sure about this? Just curious, because knees are generally pretty important to a NFL player.

How are you guys so sure that he's going to decline so much? None of us are sure. Funny how people are questioning my opinion on the matter asking if I'm his doctor yet making the assumption that now his production will drop off with no more information than I have. That's the reason there's a discussion. But from what I'm reading and what my opinion on Holt is, I think he's going to be just fine and continue to perform at an elite level. You don't have to agree.

I'm unsure and I admit it, but your original email sounded like a statement of fact, like there is no possibility of his knee keeping him from being elite. I never said he'll definately drop, I don't know, but you seemed to. BTW I hope you're right, I'm a huge Holt fan, but I'm mildly concerned, and think anyone should be.

 

[gianmarco]

Holt is only 31 and we all know what TO and Harrison are still doing at the ages of 34-35. He will still be an elite WR and this "bum knee" won't keep him from putting up monster #'s yet again.

How are you so sure about this? Just curious, because knees are generally pretty important to a NFL player.

How are you guys so sure that he's going to decline so much? None of us are sure. Funny how people are questioning my opinion on the matter asking if I'm his doctor yet making the assumption that now his production will drop off with no more information than I have. That's the reason there's a discussion. But from what I'm reading and what my opinion on Holt is, I think he's going to be just fine and continue to perform at an elite level. You don't have to agree.

I'm unsure and I admit it, but your original email sounded like a statement of fact, like there is no possibility of his knee keeping him from being elite. I never said he'll definately drop, I don't know, but you seemed to. BTW I hope you're right, I'm a huge Holt fan, but I'm mildly concerned, and think anyone should be.

Well, first, all I did was put a post in, no emails yet Secondly, look at the post to which I was responding to. That may be why my post came across as an absolute. He was describing Holt as starting his decline and having a bum knee. And to me, that's just way exaggerated. I'm pretty confident that he'll do fine, but of course there are no guarantees. Of course there's a possibility his knee will hamper him. And most of what I'm saying is my opinion, which, unfortunately, is all ANY of us can give on this situation right now until we see his performance on the field during the regular season.My take on it is this. It's not often you get a chance at an elite player at a cheap price. This is a great chance to cash on on an elite WR because of this news. If this is overblown, then you get a steal. If it's not, I hardly think he falls enough to not even be startable considering you may not have to give up too much to get him. With this news, Holt and Portis could become to the 2 biggest steals of the draft and/or trades right now before the season starts. I'd be willing to gamble on that as I really think too much is being read into this. I gambled last year on Winslow as well and was happily rewarded. I see this as very similar.

 

[Keith Lewis]

Holt is only 31 and we all know what TO and Harrison are still doing at the ages of 34-35. He will still be an elite WR and this "bum knee" won't keep him from putting up monster #'s yet again.

How are you so sure about this? Just curious, because knees are generally pretty important to a NFL player.

How are you guys so sure that he's going to decline so much? None of us are sure. Funny how people are questioning my opinion on the matter asking if I'm his doctor yet making the assumption that now his production will drop off with no more information than I have. That's the reason there's a discussion. But from what I'm reading and what my opinion on Holt is, I think he's going to be just fine and continue to perform at an elite level. You don't have to agree.

I'm unsure and I admit it, but your original email sounded like a statement of fact, like there is no possibility of his knee keeping him from being elite. I never said he'll definately drop, I don't know, but you seemed to. BTW I hope you're right, I'm a huge Holt fan, but I'm mildly concerned, and think anyone should be.

Well, first, all I did was put a post in, no emails yet Secondly, look at the post to which I was responding to. That may be why my post came across as an absolute. He was describing Holt as starting his decline and having a bum knee. And to me, that's just way exaggerated. I'm pretty confident that he'll do fine, but of course there are no guarantees. Of course there's a possibility his knee will hamper him. And most of what I'm saying is my opinion, which, unfortunately, is all ANY of us can give on this situation right now until we see his performance on the field during the regular season.My take on it is this. It's not often you get a change at an elite player at a cheap price. This is a great chance to cash on on an elite WR because of this news. If this is overblown, then you get a steal. If it's not, I hardly think he falls enough to not even be startable considering you may not have to give up too much to get him. With this news, Holt and Portis could become to the 2 biggest steals of the draft and/or trades right now before the season starts. I'd be willing to gamble on that as I really think too much is being read into this. I gambled last year on Winslow as well and was happily rewarded. I see this as very similar.

Whole lotta backtracking going on here.

 

[gianmarco]

Answer honestly Gianmarco, Do you own Holt in fantasy leagues, I'd be downright shocked if you didn't. I agree wholeheartedly with Pipes about taking Williams/Evans over Holt in a dynasty league, to me it's a no brainer. Evans was ranked #7 last season with JP freaking Losman throwing him the rock. How exactly do you know his bum knee won't keep him from putting up monster numbers, are you his doctor?

How exactly do you know his bum knee will keep him from putting up monster numbers, are you his doctor?

"I know you are but what am I" schtick went out midway through primary school.

Not a schtick. I'm really curious how you're so sure he's gonna decline enough to drop him below all these other players. You can talk about primary school or you can actually offer up an explanation as I did above. At least try to contribute something, though.

 

[gianmarco]

Holt is only 31 and we all know what TO and Harrison are still doing at the ages of 34-35. He will still be an elite WR and this "bum knee" won't keep him from putting up monster #'s yet again.

How are you so sure about this? Just curious, because knees are generally pretty important to a NFL player.

How are you guys so sure that he's going to decline so much? None of us are sure. Funny how people are questioning my opinion on the matter asking if I'm his doctor yet making the assumption that now his production will drop off with no more information than I have. That's the reason there's a discussion. But from what I'm reading and what my opinion on Holt is, I think he's going to be just fine and continue to perform at an elite level. You don't have to agree.

I'm unsure and I admit it, but your original email sounded like a statement of fact, like there is no possibility of his knee keeping him from being elite. I never said he'll definately drop, I don't know, but you seemed to. BTW I hope you're right, I'm a huge Holt fan, but I'm mildly concerned, and think anyone should be.

Well, first, all I did was put a post in, no emails yet Secondly, look at the post to which I was responding to. That may be why my post came across as an absolute. He was describing Holt as starting his decline and having a bum knee. And to me, that's just way exaggerated. I'm pretty confident that he'll do fine, but of course there are no guarantees. Of course there's a possibility his knee will hamper him. And most of what I'm saying is my opinion, which, unfortunately, is all ANY of us can give on this situation right now until we see his performance on the field during the regular season.My take on it is this. It's not often you get a change at an elite player at a cheap price. This is a great chance to cash on on an elite WR because of this news. If this is overblown, then you get a steal. If it's not, I hardly think he falls enough to not even be startable considering you may not have to give up too much to get him. With this news, Holt and Portis could become to the 2 biggest steals of the draft and/or trades right now before the season starts. I'd be willing to gamble on that as I really think too much is being read into this. I gambled last year on Winslow as well and was happily rewarded. I see this as very similar.

Whole lotta backtracking going on here.

Where's the backtracking? I'm continuing to assert that I believe Holt will be just fine and shouldn't decline. Care to point out where I backtracked or contradicted myself or do you just have nothing but witty retort after witty retort with no substance at all?

 

[Keith Lewis]

Holt is only 31 and we all know what TO and Harrison are still doing at the ages of 34-35. He will still be an elite WR and this "bum knee" won't keep him from putting up monster #'s yet again.

How are you so sure about this? Just curious, because knees are generally pretty important to a NFL player.

How are you guys so sure that he's going to decline so much? None of us are sure. Funny how people are questioning my opinion on the matter asking if I'm his doctor yet making the assumption that now his production will drop off with no more information than I have. That's the reason there's a discussion. But from what I'm reading and what my opinion on Holt is, I think he's going to be just fine and continue to perform at an elite level. You don't have to agree.

I'm unsure and I admit it, but your original email sounded like a statement of fact, like there is no possibility of his knee keeping him from being elite. I never said he'll definately drop, I don't know, but you seemed to. BTW I hope you're right, I'm a huge Holt fan, but I'm mildly concerned, and think anyone should be.

Well, first, all I did was put a post in, no emails yet Secondly, look at the post to which I was responding to. That may be why my post came across as an absolute. He was describing Holt as starting his decline and having a bum knee. And to me, that's just way exaggerated. I'm pretty confident that he'll do fine, but of course there are no guarantees. Of course there's a possibility his knee will hamper him. And most of what I'm saying is my opinion, which, unfortunately, is all ANY of us can give on this situation right now until we see his performance on the field during the regular season.My take on it is this. It's not often you get a change at an elite player at a cheap price. This is a great chance to cash on on an elite WR because of this news. If this is overblown, then you get a steal. If it's not, I hardly think he falls enough to not even be startable considering you may not have to give up too much to get him. With this news, Holt and Portis could become to the 2 biggest steals of the draft and/or trades right now before the season starts. I'd be willing to gamble on that as I really think too much is being read into this. I gambled last year on Winslow as well and was happily rewarded. I see this as very similar.

Whole lotta backtracking going on here.

Where's the backtracking? I'm continuing to assert that I believe Holt will be just fine and shouldn't decline. Care to point out where I backtracked or contradicted myself or do you just have nothing but witty retort after witty retort with no substance at all?

Both by you:"He will still be an elite WR and this "bum knee" won't keep him from putting up monster #'s yet again."

then

"Of course there's a possibility his knee will hamper him."

So which one are you sticking by as the wind blows east? Go ahead and explain to the class how these two statements are not contradictions.

 

[gianmarco]

Holt is only 31 and we all know what TO and Harrison are still doing at the ages of 34-35. He will still be an elite WR and this "bum knee" won't keep him from putting up monster #'s yet again.

How are you so sure about this? Just curious, because knees are generally pretty important to a NFL player.

How are you guys so sure that he's going to decline so much? None of us are sure. Funny how people are questioning my opinion on the matter asking if I'm his doctor yet making the assumption that now his production will drop off with no more information than I have. That's the reason there's a discussion. But from what I'm reading and what my opinion on Holt is, I think he's going to be just fine and continue to perform at an elite level. You don't have to agree.

I'm unsure and I admit it, but your original email sounded like a statement of fact, like there is no possibility of his knee keeping him from being elite. I never said he'll definately drop, I don't know, but you seemed to. BTW I hope you're right, I'm a huge Holt fan, but I'm mildly concerned, and think anyone should be.

Well, first, all I did was put a post in, no emails yet Secondly, look at the post to which I was responding to. That may be why my post came across as an absolute. He was describing Holt as starting his decline and having a bum knee. And to me, that's just way exaggerated. I'm pretty confident that he'll do fine, but of course there are no guarantees. Of course there's a possibility his knee will hamper him. And most of what I'm saying is my opinion, which, unfortunately, is all ANY of us can give on this situation right now until we see his performance on the field during the regular season.My take on it is this. It's not often you get a change at an elite player at a cheap price. This is a great chance to cash on on an elite WR because of this news. If this is overblown, then you get a steal. If it's not, I hardly think he falls enough to not even be startable considering you may not have to give up too much to get him. With this news, Holt and Portis could become to the 2 biggest steals of the draft and/or trades right now before the season starts. I'd be willing to gamble on that as I really think too much is being read into this. I gambled last year on Winslow as well and was happily rewarded. I see this as very similar.

Whole lotta backtracking going on here.

Where's the backtracking? I'm continuing to assert that I believe Holt will be just fine and shouldn't decline. Care to point out where I backtracked or contradicted myself or do you just have nothing but witty retort after witty retort with no substance at all?

Both by you:"He will still be an elite WR and this "bum knee" won't keep him from putting up monster #'s yet again."

then

"Of course there's a possibility his knee will hamper him."

So which one are you sticking by as the wind blows east? Go ahead and explain to the class how these two statements are not contradictions.

Reading comprehension just isn't your forte. It is unnecessary to state that what is being written here is opinion as there is nothing that is 100% in fantasy football in terms of predictions, which is what we are dealing with. Same as when I write something as "He will still be an elite WR...." and someone else writes "His production will fall off", none of these statements are absolutes. If you need to add "I BELIEVE" to the beginning of my 1st statement (which is implied) to understand that my 1st statement doesn't contradict my 2nd statement, then go ahead and do so. If you can't comprehend that my 1st statement is obviously meant as an opinion and a statement of my prediction and it would be impossible for me to state that as 100%, then I have no further explanation for you. "I BELIEVE" he will still be an elite WR and this "bum knee" won't keep him from putting up monster #'s yet again. Of course there's a possibility his knee will hamper him.

You can pull isolated quotes and make them look as if they are contradictory, but if you reread all of my posts above with a certain level of comprehension, there is no backtracking whatsoever, but more a restatement that my posts are obviously based on my opinion.

 

[gheemony]

Own him a dynasty contract league at a hefty salary for the next 3 years. I am worried that this could be a degenerative condition. He could play through it this season, but for a dynasty league, I worry about significant drops in years 2 and 3. It might not happen, but I will certainly peddle him if he gets off to a healthy start. Sure, maybe that means he's healthy and will continue to be a stud for another two/three years, but I believe in trading guys one year too early instead of one year too late. I assume that I would get value in return, so I am not just giving him away.

But if I were to have my dynasy auction today (instead of in lat July), I would have moved Holt down (e.g., paid a lot less). These are guys that I would have paid more for:

Steve Smith

Chad Johnson

Larry Fitzgerald

Reggie Wayne

Roy Williams

Lee Evans

Age and health are big factors.

 

[Pipes]

How far do you think Holt has fallen in keeper/dynasty leagues? I realize there are a few threads on this already but most relate to his redraft status. According to many forecasted dynasty rankings he's around 6th. I have him ranked 12th. Guys I would put ahead of him are:

Steve Smith

Chad Johnson

Larry Fitzgerald

Reggie Wayne

Calvin Johnson

Roy Williams

Terrell Owens

Lee Evans

Javon Walker

Andre Johnson

Anquan Boldin

Am I reading into his injury too much or is he overvalued on most ADP's right now? Thoughts?

Which of the above WR's would you NOT take over Holt in a KEEPER/DYNASTY league?

Players in BOLD are the ones I would NOT take before Holt in any format

You're nuts if you don't take guys like Roy Williams & Lee Evans ahead of Holt in a dynasty. Those 2 have a very good chance of having better numbers this year than Holt and their careers are on the upswing. Holt's peaked and I'm afraid with a bum knee his numbers are going to start to decline.

He's peaked, huh? I guess he's toast now. I know those guys have only played 3 years, but both Roy and Evans have career highs of 82 catches. One had 1310 and the other 1292 receiving yds. And both have scored between 7 and 9 TDs all 3 years. That's great.Holt had his worst year since 2000 and STILL caught 93 balls for 1188 yds and 10 TDs last year. He's had TD totals of 10, 9, 10, and 12 the last 4 years (and he missed 2 games in the year he only had 9). Forgive me for not thinking Holt his career is in turmoil. Holt is only 31 and we all know what TO and Harrison are still doing at the ages of 34-35. He will still be an elite WR and this "bum knee" won't keep him from putting up monster #'s yet again.

Hold on there Chief where do I say Holt is toast? Yeah I think he's peaked, typically athletes don't put up better stats once they're in their 30's and have a bad knee. Besides Holt's peak is very high so while I think his stats will decline he's still a 1000 yard plus, 8-10 TD kind of WR. Definitely a top 10 and perhaps a top 5 but no way do I pass on young studs like Williams or Evans, who are both haven't yet entered their prime.Look I like Holt and think he's a great WR but I thought we're talking dynasty. In a redraft I think Holt ranks around 5-7 but I'd definitely knock him down some in a dynasty.

 

[gianmarco]

How far do you think Holt has fallen in keeper/dynasty leagues? I realize there are a few threads on this already but most relate to his redraft status. According to many forecasted dynasty rankings he's around 6th. I have him ranked 12th. Guys I would put ahead of him are:

Steve Smith

Chad Johnson

Larry Fitzgerald

Reggie Wayne

Calvin Johnson

Roy Williams

Terrell Owens

Lee Evans

Javon Walker

Andre Johnson

Anquan Boldin

Am I reading into his injury too much or is he overvalued on most ADP's right now? Thoughts?

Which of the above WR's would you NOT take over Holt in a KEEPER/DYNASTY league?

Players in BOLD are the ones I would NOT take before Holt in any format

You're nuts if you don't take guys like Roy Williams & Lee Evans ahead of Holt in a dynasty. Those 2 have a very good chance of having better numbers this year than Holt and their careers are on the upswing. Holt's peaked and I'm afraid with a bum knee his numbers are going to start to decline.

He's peaked, huh? I guess he's toast now. I know those guys have only played 3 years, but both Roy and Evans have career highs of 82 catches. One had 1310 and the other 1292 receiving yds. And both have scored between 7 and 9 TDs all 3 years. That's great.Holt had his worst year since 2000 and STILL caught 93 balls for 1188 yds and 10 TDs last year. He's had TD totals of 10, 9, 10, and 12 the last 4 years (and he missed 2 games in the year he only had 9). Forgive me for not thinking Holt his career is in turmoil. Holt is only 31 and we all know what TO and Harrison are still doing at the ages of 34-35. He will still be an elite WR and this "bum knee" won't keep him from putting up monster #'s yet again.

Hold on there Chief where do I say Holt is toast? Yeah I think he's peaked, typically athletes don't put up better stats once they're in their 30's and have a bad knee. Besides Holt's peak is very high so while I think his stats will decline he's still a 1000 yard plus, 8-10 TD kind of WR. Definitely a top 10 and perhaps a top 5 but no way do I pass on young studs like Williams or Evans, who are both haven't yet entered their prime.Look I like Holt and think he's a great WR but I thought we're talking dynasty. In a redraft I think Holt ranks around 5-7 but I'd definitely knock him down some in a dynasty.

Well, I don't think it's nuts to take Holt ahead of those guys as you stated above. While potentially superstars that will reach the elite status, they still aren't there and Holt still is. Yes, they are rising stars and have a good future, but Holt is still "young". To put it in perspective, imagine passing on Harrison 4 years ago in a dynasty for a young up and comer like Andre Johnson. While I like AJ, he still has yet to reach that elite level. Harrison has remained there and he was 31 (old, I know) 4 yrs ago.The question is, did you have those guys ranked higher before the knee injury news? If so, then it's just a matter of opinion that we don't agree on in terms of dynasty rankings. I'll take proven elite players over potential players any day while others prefer the opposite. There is no right answer to that. And if it's the injury news that is causing you to drop him, then we just view the potential impact of this injury differently. You think it's enough to drop him a tier and I don't think it's going to do much both this year and for the next 2-3 yrs. The only thing the injury does for me both in terms of redraft and dynasty is drop him to the bottom of the elite tier, in which I don't think Roy or Evans are in yet.

Before the injury news, I thought Holt still had 3-4 years of elite production (like Harrison and TO have continued to demonstrate). After the news injury, my opinion of that hasn't changed because I think more is being made of it than it really is. The first couple of games this season should tell us quite a bit. And if it doesn't affect him this year, then I definitely wouldn't see a reason for it to cause a faster decline in the future than he would have had anyway (which I think is a few years away).

 

[SSOG]

Which of the above WR's would you NOT take over Holt in a KEEPER/DYNASTY league?

Calvin, Roy, Andre Johnson, and Anquan Boldin, for starters. I'd also have Smiff, Chad Johnson, and Reggie Wayne ranked clearly ahead of Holt. After that, I'd have to see the scoring system and keeper rules (keep 3, keep 8, keepers cost a draft pick, etc) before deciding between Holt, Walker, Evans, Fitzgerald, Owens, and Harrison (a name that wasn't on the list but should have been). All six of them are pretty closely packed, in my opinion.

 

[cincipd]

In a partial keeper league (keep) and want to win this year, traded Calvin Johnson for Holt straight up last Friday

 

[cincipd]

In a partial keeper league (keep) and want to win this year, traded Calvin Johnson for Holt straight up last Friday

 

[Pocket Joker]

How far do you think Holt has fallen in keeper/dynasty leagues? I realize there are a few threads on this already but most relate to his redraft status. According to many forecasted dynasty rankings he's around 6th. I have him ranked 12th. Guys I would put ahead of him are:

Steve Smith

Chad Johnson

Larry Fitzgerald

Reggie Wayne

Calvin Johnson

Roy Williams

Terrell Owens

Lee Evans

Javon Walker

Andre Johnson

Anquan Boldin

Am I reading into his injury too much or is he overvalued on most ADP's right now? Thoughts?

Which of the above WR's would you NOT take over Holt in a KEEPER/DYNASTY league?

Players in BOLD are the ones I would NOT take before Holt in any format

 

[Keith Lewis]

How far do you think Holt has fallen in keeper/dynasty leagues? I realize there are a few threads on this already but most relate to his redraft status. According to many forecasted dynasty rankings he's around 6th. I have him ranked 12th. Guys I would put ahead of him are:

Steve Smith

Chad Johnson

Larry Fitzgerald

Reggie Wayne

Calvin Johnson

Roy Williams

Terrell Owens

Lee Evans

Javon Walker

Andre Johnson

Anquan Boldin

Am I reading into his injury too much or is he overvalued on most ADP's right now? Thoughts?

Which of the above WR's would you NOT take over Holt in a KEEPER/DYNASTY league?

Players in BOLD are the ones I would NOT take before Holt in any format

You're nuts if you don't take guys like Roy Williams & Lee Evans ahead of Holt in a dynasty. Those 2 have a very good chance of having better numbers this year than Holt and their careers are on the upswing. Holt's peaked and I'm afraid with a bum knee his numbers are going to start to decline.

He's peaked, huh? I guess he's toast now. I know those guys have only played 3 years, but both Roy and Evans have career highs of 82 catches. One had 1310 and the other 1292 receiving yds. And both have scored between 7 and 9 TDs all 3 years. That's great.Holt had his worst year since 2000 and STILL caught 93 balls for 1188 yds and 10 TDs last year. He's had TD totals of 10, 9, 10, and 12 the last 4 years (and he missed 2 games in the year he only had 9). Forgive me for not thinking Holt his career is in turmoil. Holt is only 31 and we all know what TO and Harrison are still doing at the ages of 34-35. He will still be an elite WR and this "bum knee" won't keep him from putting up monster #'s yet again.

Hold on there Chief where do I say Holt is toast? Yeah I think he's peaked, typically athletes don't put up better stats once they're in their 30's and have a bad knee. Besides Holt's peak is very high so while I think his stats will decline he's still a 1000 yard plus, 8-10 TD kind of WR. Definitely a top 10 and perhaps a top 5 but no way do I pass on young studs like Williams or Evans, who are both haven't yet entered their prime.Look I like Holt and think he's a great WR but I thought we're talking dynasty. In a redraft I think Holt ranks around 5-7 but I'd definitely knock him down some in a dynasty.

 

[Demons]

Why assume the risk? For many players, the difference between ok and elite is a little more quick twitch muscle mass, 1/10 of a second, the ability to leap that extra few inches. Holt will likely be more susceptible to injury in other parts of his body as he attempts to compensate for his loss in the affected knee. He is at the age where injuries begin to take much longer to recover from.

His value has dropped dramatically for me. I don't own him and really don't want him unless he is extremely cheap.

Now is the time to move him in a dynasty league, before the reality of his problem becomes more apparent. He still is under the penumbra of his past achievements. People are still wearing the rose colored glasses.

Just my opinion as an owner who usually has the most trades in any league I belong to. Value can shift from one day to the next. Move him before he has a bad few weeks. I had Oakland offensive players last year. After the first few weeks I could barely give them away. A bad week or two for him and you will need four good weeks to get his value back up.

 

[nygiants56]

How far do you think Holt has fallen in keeper/dynasty leagues? I realize there are a few threads on this already but most relate to his redraft status. According to many forecasted dynasty rankings he's around 6th. I have him ranked 12th. Guys I would put ahead of him are:

Steve Smith

Chad Johnson

Larry Fitzgerald

Reggie Wayne

Calvin Johnson

Roy Williams

Terrell Owens

Lee Evans

Javon Walker

Andre Johnson

Anquan Boldin

Am I reading into his injury too much or is he overvalued on most ADP's right now? Thoughts?

Which of the above WR's would you NOT take over Holt in a KEEPER/DYNASTY league?

Been down on Holt all summer long..he's lucky if he catches 70 balls this season. I'm worried about the St Louis offense..Sjax will get his, tho..maybe old man Bruce has one great season left in him?!

 

[OddibeMcD]

Why assume the risk? For many players, the difference between ok and elite is a little more quick twitch muscle mass, 1/10 of a second, the ability to leap that extra few inches. Holt will likely be more susceptible to injury in other parts of his body as he attempts to compensate for his loss in the affected knee. He is at the age where injuries begin to take much longer to recover from.His value has dropped dramatically for me. I don't own him and really don't want him unless he is extremely cheap.Now is the time to move him in a dynasty league, before the reality of his problem becomes more apparent. He still is under the penumbra of his past achievements. People are still wearing the rose colored glasses.Just my opinion as an owner who usually has the most trades in any league I belong to. Value can shift from one day to the next. Move him before he has a bad few weeks. I had Oakland offensive players last year. After the first few weeks I could barely give them away. A bad week or two for him and you will need four good weeks to get his value back up.

Moved him for Turner and Santonio Holmes a week and a half ago. Even if it is one year too early, I'd rather get something for him now, than nothing after the season. Especially in a rebuilding year, why hold onto him?