Trading after the trade deadliine, is this collusion? (1 Viewer)

[footballnerd]

Trade deadline is coming up my league, feels kind of early but its partly to prevent dumping for picks late in the season. Anyways, was thinking of a way to still make moves after the deadline and was wondering what the SP thought of two owners executing a trade through a coordinated add/drop using the Free Agent waivers (First Come, First Serve). If two owners decided to drop and add each others players to make a trade, would this be an illegal move or considered collusion? Obviously your waiver rules have to be set up to allow for this to happen, so it might not pertain to a lot of people.

 

[Jersey35]

Clear cut collusion.

Edited to add: if you don't like the rules, work to get them changed - don't find a way around them. A good rule of thumb is that if the thing you are trying to do allows you to do something that is otherwise expressly prohibited, it is probably cheating.

 

[dwarfboy]

If you can follow the rules of your league and get a move done then go for it however in this case it's clearly against the spirit and intent of the rules. You might want to point out the possibility and make a clear rule against such actions, or use it as a justification to get the rules changed for next year to a proper waiver system.

With first come/first serve waivers a coordinated add/drop would pretty clearly violate the rules against trading after the deadline. In this case I'd say this is clearly illegal.

If you didn't have first come/first served free agents, but rather a waiver priority system then it might be possible to execute a legal trade after a trade deadline.

Let's say you both suck and have worst to first waiver priority. If you picked #1 and #2 it would be easy to make a trade, just drop the players without making a pickup so you don't lose your waiver spot, then claim them with your #1 and #2 slots.

If you aren't #1 and #2 then it will require more finesse. You'll want to let the other owners make their moves hoping everybody in front of you uses a waiver move so you move into positions #1 and #2. If you wind up at #1 and #2 then you can easily execute a trade.

If you pick later or use blind bidding you will have problems executing a trade through waivers. You can try to sneak one through but it only takes one owner to notice and claim the player you tried to trade, but that's a risk you take. Our waivers runs early Wed. morning. Most owners check the transactions report on Wed. and set their lineup for the next week then don't usually check back in until Sat. or Sun. morning. You and your trade partner can make your drops at the last minute before Thu. morning waivers run then claim them in waivers Sat. morning, assuming 24hr minimum on waivers. This is when the other owners are least likely to notice so they'll fail to get in a claim.

 

[FUBAR]

Clear cut collusion.

Edited to add: if you don't like the rules, work to get them changed - don't find a way around them. A good rule of thumb is that if the thing you are trying to do allows you to do something that is otherwise expressly prohibited, it is probably cheating.

/thread

 

[glong989]

Obvious collusion.

You say the rule is mostly there to prevent tanking and people dumping players for draft picks. How about you change the rule to state after the deadline you can only trade players straight up without draft picks being involved? Sure you may have the guys in contention receiving players like Fred Jackson in return for some younger up and comers but you gotta deal with it if you want to trade after your early dead line.

 

[Wrigley]

Clearly you shouldn't have a "first come first severed" waiver system.

 

[Ocram]

This could be used as a definition of collusion.

 

[Shane Falco]

if you have to ask....

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Clear cut collusion.Edited to add: if you don't like the rules, work to get them changed - don't find a way around them. A good rule of thumb is that if the thing you are trying to do allows you to do something that is otherwise expressly prohibited, it is probably cheating.

This

 

[footballnerd]

This could be used as a definition of collusion.

just another thread trying to push the edge. depending on the caliber of player nobody would actually notice, but ya. interesting concept earlier with the waiver priority system though.

 

[brewer]

I'm of the opinion that there shouldn't be a trade deadline in a dynasty league anyway.

 

[footballnerd]

I'm of the opinion that there shouldn't be a trade deadline in a dynasty league anyway.

that's a interesting point, how about in a keeper redraft league?

 

[Amused to Death]

I'm of the opinion that there shouldn't be a trade deadline in a dynasty league anyway.

Curious as to why. The NFL has a trade deadline. Just have the 'no trade' period end the week after the championship.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Trade deadline is coming up my league, feels kind of early but its partly to prevent dumping for picks late in the season. Anyways, was thinking of a way to still make moves after the deadline and was wondering what the SP thought of two owners executing a trade through a coordinated add/drop using the Free Agent waivers (First Come, First Serve). If two owners decided to drop and add each others players to make a trade, would this be an illegal move or considered collusion? Obviously your waiver rules have to be set up to allow for this to happen, so it might not pertain to a lot of people.

 

[footballnerd]

okay so this is clearly collusion, but where do you guys think is a good trade deadline to allow people to make moves but limit dumping for picks in a keeper league? or is that even a bad thing? The balance of the league can drastically change for the current year and the next year, the more time you give owners to figure out they won't make playoffs. The real NFL trade deadline seems a bit early for fantasy though.

 

[Jersey35]

The real question is why you would want to prevent people from making trades for the future. There are only two real reasons to trade in a keeper/dynasty league:

1) To improve your chances to win this year

2) To improve your chances to win in future years

These are often, but not always, mutually exclusive options. If your league wants to reduce owners' ability to utilize option 2, that's fine, but I think it makes it infinitely less fun and competitive.

Our dynasty league has no trading deadline - just a free agency deadline. It works for us, and everyone in the league prefers it this way. Everyone just needs to get used to the idea that some teams are going to make "blockbuster" deals to "win now". Once it's accepted and understood, all the teams in contention begin making those deals with all of those out of contention. Eventually the cycle self-regulates and you've got a nice competitive league with active trading and a potentially shortened parity cycle, keeping more league owners interested over the years.

 

[BigRedNole]

Collusion all the way.

We draft for the season, have no waiver wire, and trades are rare. Trades have to be approved by half the league. Too much BS with crap like this. If you have to ask, you know it is wrong.

 

[Winning IS Everything]

okay so this is clearly collusion, but where do you guys think is a good trade deadline to allow people to make moves but limit dumping for picks in a keeper league? or is that even a bad thing? The balance of the league can drastically change for the current year and the next year, the more time you give owners to figure out they won't make playoffs. The real NFL trade deadline seems a bit early for fantasy though.

We used to end Week 10 and moved it to Week 11 this year as there have been no problems with it in 18 years. Trading for picks is all a part of it in a keeper or dynasty league. If you do not want people dumping for picks, made it a full on redraft league.As far as your OP goes, this is exactly why we have a 24 hour player lock after they are dropped. It gives all owners time to try to get that player.

 

[RavenLunatic]

I think it is wrong if there is no waiver process but don't think it is a black and white decision.

I think it would work if you are able to reclaim a player you dropped (and had priority). Similar to how baseball teams trade players after exposing them to waivers. But in baseball they can pull them back and/or negotiate other compensation.

Without a system to facilitate you end up needing to rig the system a bit to even bother trying. And at that point it is back to being wrong.

Maybe have two trade deadlines. The first for normal trades and the second that is under more scrutiny for collusion or requires less owners to veto?

Tough because at the end of a losing season you want to find a way to improve for the next and keep it interesting.

 

[brewer]

I'm of the opinion that there shouldn't be a trade deadline in a dynasty league anyway.

Curious as to why. The NFL has a trade deadline. Just have the 'no trade' period end the week after the championship.

That is the argument most brought up when I bring up the point. But, I don't really see how it matters. This isn't the NFL. It's a game for pure entertainment. Nothing is less entertaining than being a team who is completely out of the competition and not even being allowed to make moves to improve for future years. It leads to disinterest from the bottom feeders and I think that is a bad thing for this game.

 

[brewer]

I'm of the opinion that there shouldn't be a trade deadline in a dynasty league anyway.

that's a interesting point, how about in a keeper redraft league?

I'm not a fan of trade deadlines in any format, but I seem to be in the minority there.

 

[VaTerp]

Clearly you shouldn't have a "first come first severed" waiver system.

No. The fcfs is not the problem.It's the early trade deadline in a dynasty.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

I'm of the opinion that there shouldn't be a trade deadline in a dynasty league anyway.

that's a interesting point, how about in a keeper redraft league?

I don't think there should be trade deadlines in those either. I played in one league where you couldn't make trades once you were out of the running. But as long as you were still alive and had a chance at the championship you could make trades. It worked out very nicely. What you mention in the OP is clearly collusion.I don't think there should be trade deadlines. If someone is determined to cheat they're going to cheat. No matter what rules are in place. Most people will do what's best for their team. Trade deadline or not.

 

[billjohnson]

If you don't like the rules, work to get them changed - don't find a way around them.

Well, that's downright UN-American!

 

[AngryPatriot]

Collusion... but we do have a trade deadline in adynasty and I think there's good reason: no dumping for picks or last minute outrageous trades and ensuing controversy.