fasteddie_21
2006 NM Poker Champ
Your dad is Gabe Kaplan? And that's an awesome pic/story.
You don't understand evolution...the horse's genes (the only thing it passes on to its offspring) are completely unaffected by whether they race as 3 year-old, 4 year-old, 5-year old or 26 year old.Not really. The breeding could be making them worse at least stamina wise and you need stamina for the Belmont.How in the hell was Secretariat's run in 1972 many lengths better than this last race? I mean don't they breed these horses to be better?
Here's what I see happening with the breeding,
If you have a champion horse, you may not run him past 3 year old because you don't want to tarnish his legacy by seeing him start to lose. Mounting losses can mean losing a lot of money in stud fees. They want to breed him at peak reputation. Even if you do run him at 4, you probably don't run him past 4 because you want to start getting those stud fees and you don't want to risk a life ending injury. Therefore natural evolution means these horses are getting weaker, just because they don't race as long. It may be a while before this really takes shape but it's happening.
Then on top of that, horses are not being bred to being distance horses like this. There are a lot more races at a mile, mile and a 1/8. or less. The Belmont is pretty rare at a mile and a half, it's just not a typical distance for a big money race.
Can you send some links to your expertise?You don't understand evolution...the horse's genes (the only thing it passes on to its offspring) are completely unaffected by whether they race as 3 year-old, 4 year-old, 5-year old or 26 year old.Not really. The breeding could be making them worse at least stamina wise and you need stamina for the Belmont.How in the hell was Secretariat's run in 1972 many lengths better than this last race? I mean don't they breed these horses to be better?
Here's what I see happening with the breeding,
If you have a champion horse, you may not run him past 3 year old because you don't want to tarnish his legacy by seeing him start to lose. Mounting losses can mean losing a lot of money in stud fees. They want to breed him at peak reputation. Even if you do run him at 4, you probably don't run him past 4 because you want to start getting those stud fees and you don't want to risk a life ending injury. Therefore natural evolution means these horses are getting weaker, just because they don't race as long. It may be a while before this really takes shape but it's happening.
Then on top of that, horses are not being bred to being distance horses like this. There are a lot more races at a mile, mile and a 1/8. or less. The Belmont is pretty rare at a mile and a half, it's just not a typical distance for a big money race.
Now if you are arguing that our ability to detect desirable traits in horses decreases because we don't get to see them race as often, that might be a possibility. But that is artificial selection, not "natural evolution".
(sorry, science teacher rant...![]()
Can you send some links to your expertise?You don't understand evolution...the horse's genes (the only thing it passes on to its offspring) are completely unaffected by whether they race as 3 year-old, 4 year-old, 5-year old or 26 year old.Not really. The breeding could be making them worse at least stamina wise and you need stamina for the Belmont.How in the hell was Secretariat's run in 1972 many lengths better than this last race? I mean don't they breed these horses to be better?
Here's what I see happening with the breeding,
If you have a champion horse, you may not run him past 3 year old because you don't want to tarnish his legacy by seeing him start to lose. Mounting losses can mean losing a lot of money in stud fees. They want to breed him at peak reputation. Even if you do run him at 4, you probably don't run him past 4 because you want to start getting those stud fees and you don't want to risk a life ending injury. Therefore natural evolution means these horses are getting weaker, just because they don't race as long. It may be a while before this really takes shape but it's happening.
Then on top of that, horses are not being bred to being distance horses like this. There are a lot more races at a mile, mile and a 1/8. or less. The Belmont is pretty rare at a mile and a half, it's just not a typical distance for a big money race.
Now if you are arguing that our ability to detect desirable traits in horses decreases because we don't get to see them race as often, that might be a possibility. But that is artificial selection, not "natural evolution".
(sorry, science teacher rant...![]()
How many kids do you send to the principal on a yearly basis?You don't understand evolution...the horse's genes (the only thing it passes on to its offspring) are completely unaffected by whether they race as 3 year-old, 4 year-old, 5-year old or 26 year old.Not really. The breeding could be making them worse at least stamina wise and you need stamina for the Belmont.How in the hell was Secretariat's run in 1972 many lengths better than this last race? I mean don't they breed these horses to be better?
Here's what I see happening with the breeding,
If you have a champion horse, you may not run him past 3 year old because you don't want to tarnish his legacy by seeing him start to lose. Mounting losses can mean losing a lot of money in stud fees. They want to breed him at peak reputation. Even if you do run him at 4, you probably don't run him past 4 because you want to start getting those stud fees and you don't want to risk a life ending injury. Therefore natural evolution means these horses are getting weaker, just because they don't race as long. It may be a while before this really takes shape but it's happening.
Then on top of that, horses are not being bred to being distance horses like this. There are a lot more races at a mile, mile and a 1/8. or less. The Belmont is pretty rare at a mile and a half, it's just not a typical distance for a big money race.
Now if you are arguing that our ability to detect desirable traits in horses decreases because we don't get to see them race as often, that might be a possibility. But that is artificial selection, not "natural evolution".
(sorry, science teacher rant...)
I think I've sent 3 in 11 years.How many kids do you send to the principal on a yearly basis?You don't understand evolution...the horse's genes (the only thing it passes on to its offspring) are completely unaffected by whether they race as 3 year-old, 4 year-old, 5-year old or 26 year old.Not really. The breeding could be making them worse at least stamina wise and you need stamina for the Belmont.How in the hell was Secretariat's run in 1972 many lengths better than this last race? I mean don't they breed these horses to be better?
Here's what I see happening with the breeding,
If you have a champion horse, you may not run him past 3 year old because you don't want to tarnish his legacy by seeing him start to lose. Mounting losses can mean losing a lot of money in stud fees. They want to breed him at peak reputation. Even if you do run him at 4, you probably don't run him past 4 because you want to start getting those stud fees and you don't want to risk a life ending injury. Therefore natural evolution means these horses are getting weaker, just because they don't race as long. It may be a while before this really takes shape but it's happening.
Then on top of that, horses are not being bred to being distance horses like this. There are a lot more races at a mile, mile and a 1/8. or less. The Belmont is pretty rare at a mile and a half, it's just not a typical distance for a big money race.
Now if you are arguing that our ability to detect desirable traits in horses decreases because we don't get to see them race as often, that might be a possibility. But that is artificial selection, not "natural evolution".
(sorry, science teacher rant...)
The likely answer is that Secretariat's heart was nearly 3x the size of a "typical" horse's heart.How in the hell was Secretariat's run in 1972 many lengths better than this last race? I mean don't they breed these horses to be better?
Today, the normal weight of a horse’s heart is 8.5 pounds. Even though Secretariat’s heart was not weighed at autopsy, Dr. Thomas Swerczek, head pathologist at the University of Kentucky, estimated it at 22 pounds after finding the second-largest heart in Sham (Secretariat’s Triple Crown rival) and weighing it at 18 pounds.
"I have done thousands of autopsies, and I had noticed differences in heart size in horses before we did Secretariat," Swerczek said. "I had picked up the difference in the male and female hearts and noticed that some were bigger than others.
"But I didn’t pay much attention until Secretariat came along. He was completely out of everybody else’s league. Looking back at what he had done, it was easy to put a connection to it. The heart was what made him able to do what he did. It explained how he was able to do what he did in the Belmont Stakes – a mile and a half race (Secretariat won by 31 lengths in track-record time). You would have to have a large heart to do what he did. It would be impossible for a horse with a small heart to do that."
Recalling the moment Secretariat’s heart was uncovered, Swerczek said, "We just stood there in stunned silence. We couldn’t believe it. The heart was perfect. There were no problems with it. It was just this huge engine."
Secretariat is widening now! He is moving like a tremendous machine! Secretariat by twelve, Secretariat by fourteen lengths on the turn!
####in cowardThe likely answer is that Secretariat's heart was nearly 3x the size of a "typical" horse's heart.How in the hell was Secretariat's run in 1972 many lengths better than this last race? I mean don't they breed these horses to be better?
http://www.horsesonly.com/crossroads/xfactor/heart-1.htm
Today, the normal weight of a horse’s heart is 8.5 pounds. Even though Secretariat’s heart was not weighed at autopsy, Dr. Thomas Swerczek, head pathologist at the University of Kentucky, estimated it at 22 pounds after finding the second-largest heart in Sham (Secretariat’s Triple Crown rival) and weighing it at 18 pounds.
"I have done thousands of autopsies, and I had noticed differences in heart size in horses before we did Secretariat," Swerczek said. "I had picked up the difference in the male and female hearts and noticed that some were bigger than others.
"But I didn’t pay much attention until Secretariat came along. He was completely out of everybody else’s league. Looking back at what he had done, it was easy to put a connection to it. The heart was what made him able to do what he did. It explained how he was able to do what he did in the Belmont Stakes – a mile and a half race (Secretariat won by 31 lengths in track-record time). You would have to have a large heart to do what he did. It would be impossible for a horse with a small heart to do that."
Recalling the moment Secretariat’s heart was uncovered, Swerczek said, "We just stood there in stunned silence. We couldn’t believe it. The heart was perfect. There were no problems with it. It was just this huge engine."
this guy knows.Not really. The breeding could be making them worse at least stamina wise and you need stamina for the Belmont.How in the hell was Secretariat's run in 1972 many lengths better than this last race? I mean don't they breed these horses to be better?
Here's what I see happening with the breeding,
If you have a champion horse, you may not run him past 3 year old because you don't want to tarnish his legacy by seeing him start to lose. Mounting losses can mean losing a lot of money in stud fees. They want to breed him at peak reputation. Even if you do run him at 4, you probably don't run him past 4 because you want to start getting those stud fees and you don't want to risk a life ending injury. Therefore natural evolution means these horses are getting weaker, just because they don't race as long. It may be a while before this really takes shape but it's happening.
Then on top of that, horses are not being bred to being distance horses like this. There are a lot more races at a mile, mile and a 1/8. or less. The Belmont is pretty rare at a mile and a half, it's just not a typical distance for a big money race.
the guy just ruined a great heel turn
Horses are most certainly bred for this trait. It's known as the X-Factor.Could horses be bred for the large heart trait? Is it a trait or a mutation?The likely answer is that Secretariat's heart was nearly 3x the size of a "typical" horse's heart.How in the hell was Secretariat's run in 1972 many lengths better than this last race? I mean don't they breed these horses to be better?
http://www.horsesonly.com/crossroads/xfactor/heart-1.htm
Today, the normal weight of a horse’s heart is 8.5 pounds. Even though Secretariat’s heart was not weighed at autopsy, Dr. Thomas Swerczek, head pathologist at the University of Kentucky, estimated it at 22 pounds after finding the second-largest heart in Sham (Secretariat’s Triple Crown rival) and weighing it at 18 pounds.
"I have done thousands of autopsies, and I had noticed differences in heart size in horses before we did Secretariat," Swerczek said. "I had picked up the difference in the male and female hearts and noticed that some were bigger than others.
"But I didn’t pay much attention until Secretariat came along. He was completely out of everybody else’s league. Looking back at what he had done, it was easy to put a connection to it. The heart was what made him able to do what he did. It explained how he was able to do what he did in the Belmont Stakes – a mile and a half race (Secretariat won by 31 lengths in track-record time). You would have to have a large heart to do what he did. It would be impossible for a horse with a small heart to do that."
Recalling the moment Secretariat’s heart was uncovered, Swerczek said, "We just stood there in stunned silence. We couldn’t believe it. The heart was perfect. There were no problems with it. It was just this huge engine."
It's a trait. But it only shows up in male offspring of Secretariat's daughters. Then in those horse's daughter's sons. It skips a generation & gender (akin to male pattern baldness which is believed one inherits from their maternal grandfather).Could horses be bred for the large heart trait? Is it a trait or a mutation?The likely answer is that Secretariat's heart was nearly 3x the size of a "typical" horse's heart.How in the hell was Secretariat's run in 1972 many lengths better than this last race? I mean don't they breed these horses to be better?
http://www.horsesonly.com/crossroads/xfactor/heart-1.htm
Today, the normal weight of a horse’s heart is 8.5 pounds. Even though Secretariat’s heart was not weighed at autopsy, Dr. Thomas Swerczek, head pathologist at the University of Kentucky, estimated it at 22 pounds after finding the second-largest heart in Sham (Secretariat’s Triple Crown rival) and weighing it at 18 pounds.
"I have done thousands of autopsies, and I had noticed differences in heart size in horses before we did Secretariat," Swerczek said. "I had picked up the difference in the male and female hearts and noticed that some were bigger than others.
"But I didn’t pay much attention until Secretariat came along. He was completely out of everybody else’s league. Looking back at what he had done, it was easy to put a connection to it. The heart was what made him able to do what he did. It explained how he was able to do what he did in the Belmont Stakes – a mile and a half race (Secretariat won by 31 lengths in track-record time). You would have to have a large heart to do what he did. It would be impossible for a horse with a small heart to do that."
Recalling the moment Secretariat’s heart was uncovered, Swerczek said, "We just stood there in stunned silence. We couldn’t believe it. The heart was perfect. There were no problems with it. It was just this huge engine."
have any of them actually done anything?It's a trait. But it only shows up in male offspring of Secretariat's daughters. Then in those horse's daughter's sons. It skips a generation & gender (akin to male pattern baldness which is believed one inherits from their maternal grandfather).Could horses be bred for the large heart trait? Is it a trait or a mutation?The likely answer is that Secretariat's heart was nearly 3x the size of a "typical" horse's heart.How in the hell was Secretariat's run in 1972 many lengths better than this last race? I mean don't they breed these horses to be better?
http://www.horsesonly.com/crossroads/xfactor/heart-1.htm
Today, the normal weight of a horse’s heart is 8.5 pounds. Even though Secretariat’s heart was not weighed at autopsy, Dr. Thomas Swerczek, head pathologist at the University of Kentucky, estimated it at 22 pounds after finding the second-largest heart in Sham (Secretariat’s Triple Crown rival) and weighing it at 18 pounds.
"I have done thousands of autopsies, and I had noticed differences in heart size in horses before we did Secretariat," Swerczek said. "I had picked up the difference in the male and female hearts and noticed that some were bigger than others.
"But I didn’t pay much attention until Secretariat came along. He was completely out of everybody else’s league. Looking back at what he had done, it was easy to put a connection to it. The heart was what made him able to do what he did. It explained how he was able to do what he did in the Belmont Stakes – a mile and a half race (Secretariat won by 31 lengths in track-record time). You would have to have a large heart to do what he did. It would be impossible for a horse with a small heart to do that."
Recalling the moment Secretariat’s heart was uncovered, Swerczek said, "We just stood there in stunned silence. We couldn’t believe it. The heart was perfect. There were no problems with it. It was just this huge engine."
Oh yes, certainly. Originally, all his kids were thought of as "duds" since they didn't do much. It wasn't until the male grandkids were born to the daughters that it was discovered the trait comes by way of the damsire (a horse's maternal grandfather).culdeus said:have any of them actually done anything?Sarnoff said:It's a trait. But it only shows up in male offspring of Secretariat's daughters. Then in those horse's daughter's sons. It skips a generation & gender (akin to male pattern baldness which is believed one inherits from their maternal grandfather).WhatDoIKnow said:Could horses be bred for the large heart trait? Is it a trait or a mutation?soothsayer said:The likely answer is that Secretariat's heart was nearly 3x the size of a "typical" horse's heart.How in the hell was Secretariat's run in 1972 many lengths better than this last race? I mean don't they breed these horses to be better?
http://www.horsesonly.com/crossroads/xfactor/heart-1.htm
Today, the normal weight of a horse’s heart is 8.5 pounds. Even though Secretariat’s heart was not weighed at autopsy, Dr. Thomas Swerczek, head pathologist at the University of Kentucky, estimated it at 22 pounds after finding the second-largest heart in Sham (Secretariat’s Triple Crown rival) and weighing it at 18 pounds.
"I have done thousands of autopsies, and I had noticed differences in heart size in horses before we did Secretariat," Swerczek said. "I had picked up the difference in the male and female hearts and noticed that some were bigger than others.
"But I didn’t pay much attention until Secretariat came along. He was completely out of everybody else’s league. Looking back at what he had done, it was easy to put a connection to it. The heart was what made him able to do what he did. It explained how he was able to do what he did in the Belmont Stakes – a mile and a half race (Secretariat won by 31 lengths in track-record time). You would have to have a large heart to do what he did. It would be impossible for a horse with a small heart to do that."
Recalling the moment Secretariat’s heart was uncovered, Swerczek said, "We just stood there in stunned silence. We couldn’t believe it. The heart was perfect. There were no problems with it. It was just this huge engine."
So even after dying, Secretariat beat Sham again...soothsayer said:The likely answer is that Secretariat's heart was nearly 3x the size of a "typical" horse's heart.How in the hell was Secretariat's run in 1972 many lengths better than this last race? I mean don't they breed these horses to be better?
http://www.horsesonly.com/crossroads/xfactor/heart-1.htm
Today, the normal weight of a horse’s heart is 8.5 pounds. Even though Secretariat’s heart was not weighed at autopsy, Dr. Thomas Swerczek, head pathologist at the University of Kentucky, estimated it at 22 pounds after finding the second-largest heart in Sham (Secretariat’s Triple Crown rival) and weighing it at 18 pounds.
"I have done thousands of autopsies, and I had noticed differences in heart size in horses before we did Secretariat," Swerczek said. "I had picked up the difference in the male and female hearts and noticed that some were bigger than others.
"But I didn’t pay much attention until Secretariat came along. He was completely out of everybody else’s league. Looking back at what he had done, it was easy to put a connection to it. The heart was what made him able to do what he did. It explained how he was able to do what he did in the Belmont Stakes – a mile and a half race (Secretariat won by 31 lengths in track-record time). You would have to have a large heart to do what he did. It would be impossible for a horse with a small heart to do that."
Recalling the moment Secretariat’s heart was uncovered, Swerczek said, "We just stood there in stunned silence. We couldn’t believe it. The heart was perfect. There were no problems with it. It was just this huge engine."
I remember watching that race with a bunch of family members and my great-uncle, who was at the track when he wasn't tending/patronizing a bar, said "he's gonna kill that horse". My father, no stranger to the rail (either track or bar), said "nope - we're gonna tell our grandchildren about this".......all pretty much synched with that transcript Gawain posted - final turn and the turbos on. Was that the TV feed? I can't recall much else, other than everybody in the room yelling and my great-great aunt saying "Oh, my Lord - look at him GO!"Gawain said:For my money, there is no better race announcement than Chic Anderson's work that day:
Secretariat is widening now! He is moving like a tremendous machine! Secretariat by twelve, Secretariat by fourteen lengths on the turn!
Storm Cat didn't have much of a racing career due to injury, however he went on to be a great sire.Oh yes, certainly. Originally, all his kids were thought of as "duds" since they didn't do much. It wasn't until the male grandkids were born to the daughters that it was discovered the trait comes by way of the damsire (a horse's maternal grandfather).culdeus said:have any of them actually done anything?Sarnoff said:It's a trait. But it only shows up in male offspring of Secretariat's daughters. Then in those horse's daughter's sons. It skips a generation & gender (akin to male pattern baldness which is believed one inherits from their maternal grandfather).WhatDoIKnow said:Could horses be bred for the large heart trait? Is it a trait or a mutation?soothsayer said:The likely answer is that Secretariat's heart was nearly 3x the size of a "typical" horse's heart.How in the hell was Secretariat's run in 1972 many lengths better than this last race? I mean don't they breed these horses to be better?
http://www.horsesonly.com/crossroads/xfactor/heart-1.htm
Today, the normal weight of a horse’s heart is 8.5 pounds. Even though Secretariat’s heart was not weighed at autopsy, Dr. Thomas Swerczek, head pathologist at the University of Kentucky, estimated it at 22 pounds after finding the second-largest heart in Sham (Secretariat’s Triple Crown rival) and weighing it at 18 pounds.
"I have done thousands of autopsies, and I had noticed differences in heart size in horses before we did Secretariat," Swerczek said. "I had picked up the difference in the male and female hearts and noticed that some were bigger than others.
"But I didn’t pay much attention until Secretariat came along. He was completely out of everybody else’s league. Looking back at what he had done, it was easy to put a connection to it. The heart was what made him able to do what he did. It explained how he was able to do what he did in the Belmont Stakes – a mile and a half race (Secretariat won by 31 lengths in track-record time). You would have to have a large heart to do what he did. It would be impossible for a horse with a small heart to do that."
Recalling the moment Secretariat’s heart was uncovered, Swerczek said, "We just stood there in stunned silence. We couldn’t believe it. The heart was perfect. There were no problems with it. It was just this huge engine."
His male grandchildren (via daughters) of note include AP Indy and Storm Cat, both champion racers. AP Indy then became the damsire of 2010 Kentucky Derby winner Super Saver. Storm Cat was the damsire of 2012 Derby & Preakness runner-up Bodemeister. Storm cat sired, and AP Indy damsired, a horse named Bluegrass Cat who finished 2nd in the 2006 Derby & Belmont Stakes.
Thanks for the heads up. This thing on TV anywhere?Cali Chrome jumps back into the action today in the Pa Derby. Very curious how he's matured. If his works are any indication, quite nicely. I saw the one at Los Al (in the afternoon) and it was sensational. Lot of question marks today, however, hope he passes.
To see him face Shared Belief (who I still think is better) in the BC Classic would be awesome.
Maybe TVG or whatever the horse channel isThanks for the heads up. This thing on TV anywhere?Cali Chrome jumps back into the action today in the Pa Derby. Very curious how he's matured. If his works are any indication, quite nicely. I saw the one at Los Al (in the afternoon) and it was sensational. Lot of question marks today, however, hope he passes.
To see him face Shared Belief (who I still think is better) in the BC Classic would be awesome.
I got rid of TVG for some reason.Maybe TVG or whatever the horse channel isThanks for the heads up. This thing on TV anywhere?Cali Chrome jumps back into the action today in the Pa Derby. Very curious how he's matured. If his works are any indication, quite nicely. I saw the one at Los Al (in the afternoon) and it was sensational. Lot of question marks today, however, hope he passes.
To see him face Shared Belief (who I still think is better) in the BC Classic would be awesome.
If you have an online wagering acct you can stream it
working the $$ jacket i hope?California Chrome about to try the turf for the first time. The crowd at Del Mar is going nuts for this horse; paddock is jam packed. The owners came into the paddock a race early with an entourage, acting like it's a prize fight. Hilarious!
Just a freak...amazing turn of foot