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"Truth isn't truth" - Is "1984" Trump's Playbook? (1 Viewer)

I will say that Iraq runup and the banking crisis did help get us to this point. They created crises in journalism and shook trust in institutions.

 
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Qanon said:
You don't know what a "perjury trap" is, do you?

"A perjury trap is a real thing. The term describes when prosecutors lure a witness into giving false testimony, usually for reasons other than covering up a crime, knowing they can prove the claim was false, and then nail them for perjury. The impeachment of President Clinton was a classic perjury trap."
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You should think about this one once the red pill wears off a bit. The affair was real. I’m not sure that’s the comp you want.

Also it wasn’t criminal perjury, it was civil perjury and contempt. That’s not a perjury trap at all.

 
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zoonation said:
The irony is that a R controlled senate with a weak D hold on the house only feeds the trump 2020 campaign.  And I think he knows it.  May even want it.  
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The Wall Street Journal has an editorial up from a few weeks back speculating that Trump wants the House to flip in 2018 so he can cast a new villain to run against in 2020.  It’s easier to blame obstructionist Democrats if they actually are in charge of something.  His base doesn’t care if he actually passes meaningful legislation if he can find a new crop of liberals to blame for his own failures.  

 
Bruce Dickinson said:
The Wall Street Journal has an editorial up from a few weeks back speculating that Trump wants the House to flip in 2018 so he can cast a new villain to run against in 2020.  It’s easier to blame obstructionist Democrats if they actually are in charge of something.  His base doesn’t care if he actually passes meaningful legislation if he can find a new crop of liberals to blame for his own failures.  
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I can see this being true, since Trump is ignorant enough to not understand how the gavel changing hands will result in nonstop House investigations and inquires.  

 
John Dean calling out Rudy Guiliani. And this after Trump today said that White House lawyer McGahn isn't "a John Dean type RAT"

Pure Orwellian “doublespeak” out of Rudy this morning. At some point the City Bar Of NY or the NY State Bar is going to tell Rudy he is bringing shame on his profession and demand that he cease and desist! He has become embarrassingly unprofessional!
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tommyGunZ said:
I can see this being true, since Trump is ignorant enough to not understand how the gavel changing hands will result in nonstop House investigations and inquires.  
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If the House flips, I think it would be fun to let Maxine Waters hand-deliver the subpoena for Trump’s financial records to the White House.

 
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timschochet said:
immigration
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Impossible - the administration is putting families and children in internment camps.

What I would love to see is Congress take back its Constitutionally granted powers over tariffs, immigration and spending. Do you think the Dems will do that? It’s not a liberal thing to do.

 
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zoonation said:
Agree with this.  But the words have meaning and should be chosen more carefully.   But, having said that, I’m sort of with you on the overall narrative angle:   None of these ridiculous statements are useful ammunition in the vote to come in November, or how the public will react to whatever Mueller puts out.  The sides are drawn.  Short of video where trump actually blows putin, nothing else will move the needle on the right.  I’m not sure that would even do it.  

The “Trump” is a despicable human being on every level narrative wont carry the water.  For sure not in the Senate and may just do anough to flip the house.  

The irony is that a R controlled senate with a weak D hold on the house only feeds the trump 2020 campaign.  And I think he knows it.  May even want it.  
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Politico: 'If they take the House, he wins big': Trump loyalists see upside in impeachment

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
This is actually as I’m sure you know a constant recurring joke - the administration can’t even roll this out and it’s easily always been Trump’s most popular made up policy.
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Come on, remember Obama and "shovel-ready" projects? Every politician talks about infrastructure, but does nothing abut it.

 
HellToupee said:
He most certainly would work with them, much to the resistance’s chagrin 
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I kind of agree, I mean he was all ready to deliver up DACA until his party told him to pump the breaks.  

All the Dems need to do is tell him how large his hand looks when he signs a bill and slide the paper in front of him.  Done deal.  

 
bueno said:
Come on, remember Obama and "shovel-ready" projects? Every politician talks about infrastructure, but does nothing abut it.
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Maybe we need to check the record but IIRC Obama had a sizeable infrastructure program. I think conservatives tried to nick away at the effectiveness of it,

 
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as the great George Costanza said ...its only a lie if you don't believe it

fake news has been growing the past few years - some people right now believe Trump is a Nazi even because the media and political groups have said it so much, people believe it .... that "truth" isn't truth at all

just one example

 
Stealthycat said:
as the great George Costanza said ...its only a lie if you don't believe it

fake news has been growing the past few years - some people right now believe Trump is a Nazi even because the media and political groups have said it so much, people believe it .... that "truth" isn't truth at all

just one example
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Do people think Trump is a Nazi or that he's a Nazi sympathizer? I mean, he has called some of them 'very fine people'.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Maybe we need to check the record but IIRC Obama had a sizeable infrastructure program. I think conservatives tried to nick away at the effectiveness of it,
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As I remember it, they couldn'd find enough shovel ready projects to spend money on. Of course, they didn't necessarily  look in Red areas, just like then current administration and Congress won't look in blue areas.

 
Stealthycat said:
as the great George Costanza said ...its only a lie if you don't believe it

fake news has been growing the past few years - some people right now believe Trump is a Nazi even because the media and political groups have said it so much, people believe it .... that "truth" isn't truth at all

just one example
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And some people believe in alien abductions.

Just one example.

The media is not and has not been calling Trump a Nazi.

 
bueno said:
As I remember it, they couldn'd find enough shovel ready projects to spend money on. Of course, they didn't necessarily  look in Red areas, just like then current administration and Congress won't look in blue areas.
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Ok that’s what I’m talking about, the Dems did pass a plan, and I think it was something like a trillion dollars. Go to town after that on it but obviously they were able to do a fairly normal spending bill in a normal way.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Ok that’s what I’m talking about, the Dems did pass a plan, and I think it was something like a trillion dollars. Go to town after that on it but obviously they were able to do a fairly normal spending bill in a normal way.
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I don't recall it being that much, but maybe. I do know that a shovel-ready project in my red area didn't see any of that money. But that they had a plan didn't mean it got executed effectively, or didn't become pork-barrel pay-offs.

 
Stealthycat said:
as the great George Costanza said ...its only a lie if you don't believe it

fake news has been growing the past few years - some people right now believe Trump is a Nazi even because the media and political groups have said it so much, people believe it .... that "truth" isn't truth at all

just one example
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Can you provide one link where main stream media reported trump as a Nazi?

 
bueno said:
Olbermann before he went to work for ESPN count?
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That wasn't mainstream media. He was doing a cheaply produced weekly videocast from his basement (from the looks of it) for Esquire or GQ and eventually gave it up because it had a minuscule audience.

 
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Bruce Dickinson said:
The Wall Street Journal has an editorial up from a few weeks back speculating that Trump wants the House to flip in 2018 so he can cast a new villain to run against in 2020.  It’s easier to blame obstructionist Democrats if they actually are in charge of something.  His base doesn’t care if he actually passes meaningful legislation if he can find a new crop of liberals to blame for his own failures.  
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https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2561

Poll released August 14th by Quinnepiac show only 31% of Americans like Trump as a person. That is a large mountain to climb to get re elected in 2020. I realize you don't need to like someone to vote for them....much will depend on who the Dems nominee is. But he needs more than his base to get re elected.

 
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Stealthycat said:
2 hours ago, Amused to Death said:

Do people think Trump is a Nazi or that he's a Nazi sympathizer? I mean, he has called some of them 'very fine people'.
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that's not what he said - fake news
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Yes, he did say that.

Don't insult our intelligence.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/08/11/donald-trump-charlottesville-anniversary-condemn-all-racism/965715002/

The remarks swayed from his comments after last year's "Unite the Right" rally in the city, which led to violence and several deaths, when Neo-Nazi sympathizers and counterprotesters clashed during demonstrations. But some critics jumped on the president's wording of "all types of racism," saying this was just another version of Trump's claim last year that "both sides" were responsible for the violence. 

Heather Heyer, a 32-year-old legal assistant, was struck and killed when a white supremacist slammed his car into a crowd of counterprotesters. And two Virginia state troopers died when their surveillance helicopter crashed near the protests.

At that time, Trump argued there was blame on both sides and equated the actions of white nationalists, who carried Nazi flags and chanted "Jews will not replace us," to that of counterprotesters. 

"You had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides," Trump said.

 
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https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-animals-hitler/

http://theconversation.com/trump-hitler-comparisons-too-easy-and-ignore-the-murderous-history-92394

squistion said:
"You had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides," Trump said.
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that's right - there were fine people there to support the history of the confederacy and preserving that history and there were fine people there saying they didn't want the statues ... and there were people there who were white supremacists and there were people there looking to fight

Trump never said he supporter racists - in fact he said this

"Racism is evil -- and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans," Trump said in response to the attacks in Charlottesville, Virginia, over the weekend.

"Those who spread violence in the name of bigotry strike at the very core of America," Trump said.

Pence said

"We have no tolerance for hate and violence from white supremacists, neo-Nazis or the KKK," said Pence, calling them "dangerous fringe groups."

Trump has denounced racists and such over and over ..... the left media doesn't show it, nobody mentioned those quotes

 
Stealthycat said:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-animals-hitler/

http://theconversation.com/trump-hitler-comparisons-too-easy-and-ignore-the-murderous-history-92394

that's right - there were fine people there to support the history of the confederacy and preserving that history and there were fine people there saying they didn't want the statues ... and there were people there who were white supremacists and there were people there looking to fight
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Don't move the goalposts:

You claimed:

2 hours ago, Amused to Death said:

Do people think Trump is a Nazi or that he's a Nazi sympathizer? I mean, he has called some of them 'very fine people'.
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that's not what he said - fake news
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That is what he did say about the Nazis,

10 minutes ago, squistion said:

"You had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides," Trump said.
Click to expand...

 
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no, he didn't say that about the nazis

you've been told he did, you believe it ... but that's NOT what he said

in fact, he's said over and over JUST THE OPPOSITE

you just want to believe what you've been told 

 
If I was there to honor the Confederacy and saw Nazis, I'm going home.  Immediately.  Full stop.

If people hung around with with white supremacists when things got ugly, it's because they are white supremecists. 

 
Stealthycat said:
no, he didn't say that about the nazis

you've been told he did, you believe it ... but that's NOT what he said

in fact, he's said over and over JUST THE OPPOSITE

you just want to believe what you've been told 
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Yes, he did. Who else participated in the Tiki Torch rally? Lots of photos about that, documented videos chanting the Nazi slogans "Blood and Soil" and "Jews will not replace us"

 
Stealthycat said:
no, he didn't say that about the nazis

you've been told he did, you believe it ... but that's NOT what he said

in fact, he's said over and over JUST THE OPPOSITE

you just want to believe what you've been told 
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No.  I believe what I saw.  He did say the opposite but not without  back-tracking.  You know it, I know it.  

Trump defended white supremacists.  You are defending Trump for those statements.  I'll leave it to others to draw conclusions.

 
Because you do not want to believe there was good people in Charlottesville that day protesting the removal of civil war history doesn't make it so.

Why are you ignoring all the times Trump has denounced racists?

 
Stealthycat said:
Because you do not want to believe there was good people in Charlottesville that day protesting the removal of civil war history doesn't make it so.

Why are you ignoring all the times Trump has denounced racists?
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Good people would have left when they saw bad people.

 
moleculo said:
Trump defended white supremacists
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he never said that

he defended the good people on BOTH sides and he denounced the BAD people on both sides

that is, literally, what he said ..... ignoring it only shows believing what you want to believe and what the left tells you to believe

 
Stealthycat said:
he never said that

he defended the good people on BOTH sides and he denounced the BAD people on both sides

that is, literally, what he said ..... ignoring it only shows believing what you want to believe and what the left tells you to believe
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Show me an example of a good person on the bad side.  Surely there is someone out there, willing to put their name down for defending the honor of the Confederacy in Charlottesville in 2017.

Give me one name and I'll concede the point.

ETA: I'm specifically referring to people participating in the ugliness.  As said before, I would exclude anyone who showed up and chose to not participate once they saw what was really happening.

 
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