Turkey shoots down Russian jet (1 Viewer)

[SaintsInDome2006]

And Russia gave its first hint of their countermeasures:

Putin responds to Turkey’s downing of Russian jet by sending air-defense missiles to SyriaPresident Vladimir Putin on Wednesday ordered state-of-the art air defense missile systems to be deployed at a Russian air base in Syria following the downing of one of its warplanes by Turkey, a move that raised the threat of a military confrontation between the NATO member and Moscow.

The S-400 missile systems will be sent to the Hemeimeem air base in Syria’s coastal province of Latakia, about 50 kilometers (30 miles) south of the border with Turkey. The systems have a range up to 400 kilometers (250 miles) and are capable of targeting Turkish jets with deadly precision. If Russia shot down a Turkish plane, Turkey could proclaim itself under attack and call for military assistance from its NATO allies.

...

http://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2015/11/25/russian-pilot-rescued-by-syrian-commando-unit

IMO this has undertones of the Cuban Missile Crisis. Obviously not as urgent or extreme, but reality is Russia is moving real hard frontline military defense equipment onto the border of a NATO ally in an already functioning war zone.

I don't know if this means that Turkey is now confronted with facing Russian fire if one of their jets (or heck one of ours) crosses into Syria.

Pres. Obama has got to step into the middle of this, this has gotten crazy dangerous. Real time world leadership is needed, right now.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Personally I also think Russia will counter by taking extra steps in Ukraine. Some have speculated that this is what Syria has been about all along. The west will be so frozen by Russia's danger that they will not act if Russia goes to town on Kiev. Right now Russia is executing an energy embargo on Ukraine as they head into their nasty winter, no gas, no oil, a good deal of electricity, cut off.

 

[timschochet]

And Russia gave its first hint of their countermeasures:

Putin responds to Turkeys downing of Russian jet by sending air-defense missiles to Syria

President Vladimir Putin on Wednesday ordered state-of-the art air defense missile systems to be deployed at a Russian air base in Syria following the downing of one of its warplanes by Turkey, a move that raised the threat of a military confrontation between the NATO member and Moscow.

The S-400 missile systems will be sent to the Hemeimeem air base in Syrias coastal province of Latakia, about 50 kilometers (30 miles) south of the border with Turkey. The systems have a range up to 400 kilometers (250 miles) and are capable of targeting Turkish jets with deadly precision. If Russia shot down a Turkish plane, Turkey could proclaim itself under attack and call for military assistance from its NATO allies.

...

http://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2015/11/25/russian-pilot-rescued-by-syrian-commando-unitIMO this has undertones of the Cuban Missile Crisis. Obviously not as urgent or extreme, but reality is Russia is moving real hard frontline military defense equipment onto the border of a NATO ally in an already functioning war zone.

I don't know if this means that Turkey is now confronted with facing Russian fire if one of their jets (or heck one of ours) crosses into Syria.

Pres. Obama has got to step into the middle of this, this has gotten crazy dangerous. Real time world leadership is needed, right now.

Seems to me that's what he's doing. Obama has shown own real statesmanship here.

 

[Jobber]

But the Russians HAVE committed plenty of atrocities. That doesn't make them subhuman. They can also be magnificent. I believe that it is in our long term interests to be allied with them, minus their current leadership.

I believe a more close relationship with Russia is very important. With the US and Russia being #1 & 2 on the Islamist hit list, we'd be well served to pursue this.

 

[TPW]

Personally I also think Russia will counter by taking extra steps in Ukraine. Some have speculated that this is what Syria has been about all along. The west will be so frozen by Russia's danger that they will not act if Russia goes to town on Kiev. Right now Russia is executing an energy embargo on Ukraine as they head into their nasty winter, no gas, no oil, a good deal of electricity, cut off.

Agreed. Economically Putin is hamstrung by lower oil and gas prices at the moment but knowing the west will not risk conflict with a nuclear armed state, military action is still an option, official or otherwise. He's shown no compunction whatsoever about using it when pressed.

In related news, the primary electrical transmission lines leading from Ukraine into Crimea were recently sabotaged leaving almost 2 million people without power. If he's looking for an additional justification to act, there it is.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Seems to me that's what he's doing. Obama has shown own real statesmanship here.

Since I don't watch the news (catch snippets here and there) can you explain? The perception I get is that he's been like The teacher in the classroom scene of E.T. - nobody listening to him as he just repeats "remain calm" as chaos rages.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

And Russia gave its first hint of their countermeasures:

Putin responds to Turkeys downing of Russian jet by sending air-defense missiles to Syria

President Vladimir Putin on Wednesday ordered state-of-the art air defense missile systems to be deployed at a Russian air base in Syria following the downing of one of its warplanes by Turkey, a move that raised the threat of a military confrontation between the NATO member and Moscow.

The S-400 missile systems will be sent to the Hemeimeem air base in Syrias coastal province of Latakia, about 50 kilometers (30 miles) south of the border with Turkey. The systems have a range up to 400 kilometers (250 miles) and are capable of targeting Turkish jets with deadly precision. If Russia shot down a Turkish plane, Turkey could proclaim itself under attack and call for military assistance from its NATO allies.

...

http://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2015/11/25/russian-pilot-rescued-by-syrian-commando-unitIMO this has undertones of the Cuban Missile Crisis. Obviously not as urgent or extreme, but reality is Russia is moving real hard frontline military defense equipment onto the border of a NATO ally in an already functioning war zone.

I don't know if this means that Turkey is now confronted with facing Russian fire if one of their jets (or heck one of ours) crosses into Syria.

Pres. Obama has got to step into the middle of this, this has gotten crazy dangerous. Real time world leadership is needed, right now.

Seems to me that's what he's doing. Obama has shown own real statesmanship here.

Where? Post an update, an actual news item reporting what Obama has been doing. I'm into this stuff, I haven't seen it but happy to admit I'm glossing over it if I'm not looking in the right places.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov Rejects Turkish Proposals for Meeting.Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov Rejects Turkish Proposals for Meeting.(SP).

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov in a telephone conversation with his Turkish counterpart has not agreed to any proposals to hold a meeting, Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said Wednesday.

"Just now, in the course of an interview with Russian and foreign media, Lavrov literally said he was not engaged in a meeting with the Turkish foreign minister at the forthcoming OSCE ministerial meeting," Zakharova told reporters.

According to Zakharova, Moscow paid attention to media reports citing a Turkish Foreign Ministry spokesperson and alleging that there was an agreement to hold a meeting of the both countries’ foreign ministers in the coming days.

"Such statements by the Turkish Foreign Ministry once again point to the lack of basic concepts of ethics and respect, and are indicative in terms of truthfulness of all that we hear from Ankara," Zakharova noted.

On Tuesday, a Russian Su-24 jet crashed in Syria. Russian President Vladimir Putin said that the plane was downed by an air-to-air missile launched by a Turkish F-16 jet over Syrian territory, falling 4 kilometers (2.5 miles) from the Turkish border. Putin described the Turkish attack as a "stab in the back" carried out by "accomplices of terrorists."

Following the tragedy, Lavrov canceled his visit to the fifth meeting of the Turkish-Russian Joint Strategic Planning Group in the Turkish city of Istanbul.

http://www.mfs-theothernews.com/2015/11/russian-foreign-minister-lavrov-rejects.html

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Moscow protesters trash Turkish embassy over downed Russian jetMOSCOW — Protesters hurled stones, eggs and paint at the Turkish embassy in Moscow on Wednesday, a day after one of the country's F-16 jets shot down a Russian Su-24 warplane that breached Turkish airspace.

...

But the incident has plunged Russian-Turkish relations to new lows, with President Vladimir Putin calling the downing a "stab in the back by accomplices of terrorists."

Russians lashed out online, using the hashtag #УдарВСпину, or "stab in the back" in social media posts that included images of the Turkish president, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, as a blood-thirsty vampire and supporter of the Islamic State.

That anger continued on Wednesday when people in Moscow trashed the Turkish embassy. They carried signs that read: "Turkey, you stabbed us in the back" and "Hands off Syria." Some protesters flew paper airplanes at the building, while several others tied neckties to the security fences surrounding the embassy with a note saying, "it is time to chew a tie," a reference to when former Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili was caught chewing his tie as Russian tanks rolled toward Tbilisi in 2008.

http://mashable.com/2015/11/25/moscow-russia-protesters-turkey-embassy/?utm_campaign=Mash-Prod-RSS-Feedburner-All-Partial&utm_cid=Mash-Prod-RSS-Feedburner-All-Partial#5ZSwrdJySuq9

 

[beer 30]

What's Russia's end game here? I wouldn't think pushing the world to the brink of WWIII is on the agenda but then I think Putin is bat #### crazy sometimes too.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

What's Russia's end game here? I wouldn't think pushing the world to the brink of WWIII is on the agenda but then I think Putin is bat #### crazy sometimes too.

I'll take a cynical shot: retake Ukraine or a good bit of it (or return it to its status as a vassal state) and put its claws on the LNG and oil energy route through the mideast, while driving a wedge through Nato and the US/western alliance?

Too strong and , or not?

 

[mr fancypants]

Just checking in late, but has Leviathan posted anything of substance yet or is he just sitting over in the corner laughing to himself and pointing fingers?

I seem to recall him posting something of value in the past but it's nothing but thread####ting in here.

I just reported him. Hoping they put him on a TO for a while. This thread was my go to for information on the topic until the last couple pages mucked it up.

I enjoy reading DD's take on all this. All Leviathan has added is elementary school retorts with nothing to back up his allegations.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

a lot of fluffing going on here

You wish Michael

 

[Doctor Detroit]

What's Russia's end game here? I wouldn't think pushing the world to the brink of WWIII is on the agenda but then I think Putin is bat #### crazy sometimes too.

Expanding the empire's influence. Since they have a good relationship with Iran, it was a good chance to be a power broker in the region. It's very risky for them however because they are going to inflame relations with Sunnis, and also make them a target for domestic terrorism. But domestic fear and global influence will keep Putin's poll numbers up.

 

[SacramentoBob]

DD, what's your take on this?

You can't fly in sovereign airspace with military fighter jets without explicit, and confirmed approval. Same as it has always been.

"There's plenty of other airspace out there for you"

- J

 

[Andy Dufresne]

What's Russia's end game here? I wouldn't think pushing the world to the brink of WWIII is on the agenda but then I think Putin is bat #### crazy sometimes too.

Just because he wears fancy clothes doesn't mean he's not a barbarian.He wants the same thing as all barbarians have wanted through the ages to accumulate power and dominate others.

 

[timschochet]

Seems to me that's what he's doing. Obama has shown own real statesmanship here.

Since I don't watch the news (catch snippets here and there) can you explain? The perception I get is that he's been like The teacher in the classroom scene of E.T. - nobody listening to him as he just repeats "remain calm" as chaos rages.

So far he has stated that Turkey has the right to defend itself. But per CNN he's working behind the scenes to tamp down the excitement. It seems to be working. Russia is not going to war with Turkey.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Seems to me that's what he's doing. Obama has shown own real statesmanship here.

Since I don't watch the news (catch snippets here and there) can you explain? The perception I get is that he's been like The teacher in the classroom scene of E.T. - nobody listening to him as he just repeats "remain calm" as chaos rages.

So far he has stated that Turkey has the right to defend itself. But per CNN he's working behind the scenes to tamp down the excitement. It seems to be working. Russia is not going to war with Turkey.

Per CNN, you say?You believe without Obama that it'd be more likely that war would ensue?

 

[timschochet]

Seems to me that's what he's doing. Obama has shown own real statesmanship here.

Since I don't watch the news (catch snippets here and there) can you explain? The perception I get is that he's been like The teacher in the classroom scene of E.T. - nobody listening to him as he just repeats "remain calm" as chaos rages.

So far he has stated that Turkey has the right to defend itself. But per CNN he's working behind the scenes to tamp down the excitement. It seems to be working. Russia is not going to war with Turkey.

Per CNN, you say?You believe without Obama that it'd be more likely that war would ensue?

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/24/politics/obama-francois-hollande-white-house-meeting/I don't know the answer to your question. But Obama is doing the right thing here. He's not contributing to the crisis.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Seems to me that's what he's doing. Obama has shown own real statesmanship here.

Since I don't watch the news (catch snippets here and there) can you explain? The perception I get is that he's been like The teacher in the classroom scene of E.T. - nobody listening to him as he just repeats "remain calm" as chaos rages.

So far he has stated that Turkey has the right to defend itself. But per CNN he's working behind the scenes to tamp down the excitement. It seems to be working. Russia is not going to war with Turkey.

Per CNN, you say?You believe without Obama that it'd be more likely that war would ensue?

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/24/politics/obama-francois-hollande-white-house-meeting/I don't know the answer to your question. But Obama is doing the right thing here. He's not contributing to the crisis.

How positively Rooseveltian of him.

 

[SacramentoBob]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/11/15/confessions-of-an-isis-spy.html

Originally posted by Tommyboy in the the "When do we go in and wipe out ISIS" thread. Longer, but interesting.

No idea who we're for or against in this one. We're quick to jump on Putin's stuff no matter what, but Turkey is apparently propping up ISIS. Obama's been softer (viewed as weaker) than some would like, but why should we be in the middle of this cluster of a quagmire of a goat rodeo? What's the win by being more aggressive? That's not argumentative, just a question. I don't see the upside.

Every single player in the ME is both a good guy and bad guy at the same time. Well, except for ISIS.Turkey allegedly funded/supplied ISIS to an extent.

Iran calls for death to America, but are mortal enemies to the Sunni extremists ISIS, etc. Also Iran funds the Taliban it seems.

Russia are ****bags, but against ISIS and the other extremists fighting Assad.

Assad is a horrific dictator, but at least he won't be sending people across Europe to shoot up pubs.

Saudi Arabia is the heart of extremism in the ME, but a US ally for some reason ($$$).

The US is supplying extremists to fight Assad, but I'm pretty sure those same fighters will be shooting at us or our allies at some point.

What a mess.

I don't think there's a such thing as a "wrong target" in Syria.

 

[timschochet]

What would you have him do, Andy?

 

[Andy Dufresne]

What would you have him do, Andy?

I'm more making fun of you for your swooning.He's lot leading. He's opining. Which is probably what he should be doing.

 

[beer 30]

What's Russia's end game here? I wouldn't think pushing the world to the brink of WWIII is on the agenda but then I think Putin is bat #### crazy sometimes too.

Expanding the empire's influence. Since they have a good relationship with Iran, it was a good chance to be a power broker in the region. It's very risky for them however because they are going to inflame relations with Sunnis, and also make them a target for domestic terrorism. But domestic fear and global influence will keep Putin's poll numbers up.

Couple things and Saints, feel free to weigh in because I think you have your finger on the pulse here as well:

1. Can Russia afford this? I get the feeling that after 12 years of the US being in the spotlight and softening up the ME, Russia wants some stage time and probably figure they can drop bombs with impunity because they are going against rag tag rebels and on the odd occasion, ISIS.

2. What version of Muslim are the Chechens? Sunni or Shia? Or 'don't care' just want the infidels to die?

3. As DD mentioned earlier in the thread, Russia's 20 year old technology won't hold up against NATO or even heavily armed rebels. TOW missiles in teh hands of rebels fighting Russians...I've seen this movie before...

4. Is there an opportunity for the US to simply back out of the room and watch from the sidelines? (Not sure we're not doing that anyhow) I don't for a minute believe that Russia is prepared to go to war with anyone let alone Turkey and by proxy NATO. This is North Korea rattling sabres but for reals, I don't think it goes beyond that especially with corroborative evidence from Turkey & the US supporting their statement that Russia was warned multiple times and ignored them. World opinion matters to Putin, he'll need to do something to quell the nationalism rising over the issue but I don't think he's dumb enough to fire shots across a border much less invade.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I think most Chechens are Sunni

 

[jonessed]

Seems to me that's what he's doing. Obama has shown own real statesmanship here.

Since I don't watch the news (catch snippets here and there) can you explain? The perception I get is that he's been like The teacher in the classroom scene of E.T. - nobody listening to him as he just repeats "remain calm" as chaos rages.

So far he has stated that Turkey has the right to defend itself. But per CNN he's working behind the scenes to tamp down the excitement. It seems to be working. Russia is not going to war with Turkey.

 

[trogg78]

We should stage a Les Nessman turkey drop on Turkey.

The turkey drop was Mr. Carlson's idea. Les was just doing the reporting.

 

[timschochet]

Seems to me that's what he's doing. Obama has shown own real statesmanship here.

Since I don't watch the news (catch snippets here and there) can you explain? The perception I get is that he's been like The teacher in the classroom scene of E.T. - nobody listening to him as he just repeats "remain calm" as chaos rages.

So far he has stated that Turkey has the right to defend itself. But per CNN he's working behind the scenes to tamp down the excitement. It seems to be working. Russia is not going to war with Turkey.

What would you have him do, jonessed?

 

[timschochet]

What would you have him do, Andy?

I'm more making fun of you for your swooning.He's lot leading. He's opining. Which is probably what he should be doing.

If that's what he should be doing, then it is leading.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

What would you have him do, Andy?

I'm more making fun of you for your swooning.He's lot leading. He's opining. Which is probably what he should be doing.

If that's what he should be doing, then it is leading.

Uh, no.

 

[[icon]]

Aren't Russias SU-35's pretty sweet? From what I understand their Mig 29s are a little behind the times..

 

[msommer]

What's Russia's end game here? I wouldn't think pushing the world to the brink of WWIII is on the agenda but then I think Putin is bat #### crazy sometimes too.

Expanding the empire's influence. Since they have a good relationship with Iran, it was a good chance to be a power broker in the region. It's very risky for them however because they are going to inflame relations with Sunnis, and also make them a target for domestic terrorism. But domestic fear and global influence will keep Putin's poll numbers up.

The bolded is Putin's end game. But it may lead to war.

 

[Poncho]

What's Russia's end game here? I wouldn't think pushing the world to the brink of WWIII is on the agenda but then I think Putin is bat #### crazy sometimes too.

Expanding the empire's influence. Since they have a good relationship with Iran, it was a good chance to be a power broker in the region. It's very risky for them however because they are going to inflame relations with Sunnis, and also make them a target for domestic terrorism. But domestic fear and global influence will keep Putin's poll numbers up.

The bolded is Putin's end game. But it may lead to war.

Since we are too afraid to "offend" anyone id love to see Putin go nuts in the middle east, don't really care which country either as long as its not Israel....

 

[Rove!]

Once again Obama said the right things today by both defending Turkey and attempting to de-escalate the crisis. I have to say that his foreign policy has over the years, in my estimation, been near flawless. He was handed a catastrophe in the Middle East by the previous President and he has done his best to get us through crisis after crisis without excessive military commitment. To me that's great.

His foreign policy has expanded terrorism, brought about the rise of ISIS and has us on the brink of WW III....

Other than that though,...

 

[Rove!]

Just checking in late, but has Leviathan posted anything of substance yet or is he just sitting over in the corner laughing to himself and pointing fingers?

I seem to recall him posting something of value in the past but it's nothing but thread####ting in here.

I just reported him. Hoping they put him on a TO for a while. This thread was my go to for information on the topic until the last couple pages mucked it up.

I enjoy reading DD's take on all this. All Leviathan has added is elementary school retorts with nothing to back up his allegations.

Both parties are guilty of a definitive lack of excellence and pissed all over the thread. That is all I will say on this subject...

 

[timschochet]

Once again Obama said the right things today by both defending Turkey and attempting to de-escalate the crisis. I have to say that his foreign policy has over the years, in my estimation, been near flawless. He was handed a catastrophe in the Middle East by the previous President and he has done his best to get us through crisis after crisis without excessive military commitment. To me that's great.

His foreign policy has expanded terrorism, brought about the rise of ISIS and has us on the brink of WW III....

Other than that though,...

You have made these points several times and no doubt you believe them. I don't.

 

[Ookie Pringle]

What would you have him do, Andy?

I'm more making fun of you for your swooning.He's lot leading. He's opining. Which is probably what he should be doing.

If that's what he should be doing, then it is leading.

 

[Rove!]

Once again Obama said the right things today by both defending Turkey and attempting to de-escalate the crisis. I have to say that his foreign policy has over the years, in my estimation, been near flawless. He was handed a catastrophe in the Middle East by the previous President and he has done his best to get us through crisis after crisis without excessive military commitment. To me that's great.

His foreign policy has expanded terrorism, brought about the rise of ISIS and has us on the brink of WW III....

Other than that though,...

You have made these points several times and no doubt you believe them. I don't.

Do you think all of these things happened in a vacuum and that the machinations of the most powerful nation on earth have no impact?You don't think that this powerful naion with all of its resources and intelligence is incapable of anticipating and influencing outcomes, especially in an area of the world we've been meddling in for some period of time?

 

[Tom Servo]

Once again Obama said the right things today by both defending Turkey and attempting to de-escalate the crisis. I have to say that his foreign policy has over the years, in my estimation, been near flawless. He was handed a catastrophe in the Middle East by the previous President and he has done his best to get us through crisis after crisis without excessive military commitment. To me that's great.

His foreign policy has expanded terrorism, brought about the rise of ISIS and has us on the brink of WW III....

Other than that though,...

You have made these points several times and no doubt you believe them. I don't.

Do you think all of these things happened in a vacuum and that the machinations of the most powerful nation on earth have no impact?You don't think that this powerful naion with all of its resources and intelligence is incapable of anticipating and influencing outcomes, especially in an area of the world we've been meddling in for some period of time?

To put a finer point on this, the American POTUS has an effect on foreign policy just by virtue of the office. Errors of commission (or in this case, omission) have repercussions. When you go around bowing to other foreign leaders, it paints this country's leader as weak and ineffectual.

 

[timschochet]

Once again Obama said the right things today by both defending Turkey and attempting to de-escalate the crisis. I have to say that his foreign policy has over the years, in my estimation, been near flawless. He was handed a catastrophe in the Middle East by the previous President and he has done his best to get us through crisis after crisis without excessive military commitment. To me that's great.

His foreign policy has expanded terrorism, brought about the rise of ISIS and has us on the brink of WW III....

Other than that though,...

You have made these points several times and no doubt you believe them. I don't.

Do you think all of these things happened in a vacuum and that the machinations of the most powerful nation on earth have no impact?You don't think that this powerful naion with all of its resources and intelligence is incapable of anticipating and influencing outcomes, especially in an area of the world we've been meddling in for some period of time?

1. I don't believe they happened in a vacuum.

2. I do believe the machinations of the most powerful nation on Earth has an impact.

3. I believe we are capable of anticipating and influencing outcomes, not necessarily with success every time.

But I don't believe your analysis of President Obama is at all correct.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

It's like a Monty Python sketch.

Idle: This situation requires some leadership.

Cleese: I AM leading.

Idle: You're just standing there.

Cleese: Exactly.

Gilliam: Isn't he AMAZING!?

 

[Fennis]

Lets not lose site of his goal and why the Russian military does this sort of thing. This has very little to do with Syria or ISIS. The Russians are constantly trying to destabilize NATO.

 

[TPW]

It's like a Monty Python sketch.

Idle: This situation requires some leadership.

Cleese: I AM leading.

Idle: You're just standing there.

Cleese: Exactly.

Gilliam: Isn't he AMAZING!?

Tim = Terry Gilliam

"Patsy" indeed.

 

[Ladsud]

Lets not lose site of his goal and why the Russian military does this sort of thing. This has very little to do with Syria or ISIS. The Russians are constantly trying to destabilize NATO.

Im no fan of the Ruskie, but can you blame them? Any nation that has a 28 nation bloc aligned against it should poke it whenever they can.

 

[mr roboto]

What makes NATO de facto aligned against Russia?

 

[Ladsud]

What makes NATO de facto aligned against Russia?

65 years of history.

 

[mr roboto]

What makes NATO de facto aligned against Russia?

65 years of history.

OK. But isn't just a weeeeeeeee bit of that history kinda, you know, from a different era?I mean honestly, what direct policy or statements set NATO against Russia. I'm not being difficult I just don't know.

 

[johnnycakes]

What makes NATO de facto aligned against Russia?

You're either with us or against us.

 

[Ladsud]

What makes NATO de facto aligned against Russia?

65 years of history.

OK. But isn't just a weeeeeeeee bit of that history kinda, you know, from a different era?I mean honestly, what direct policy or statements set NATO against Russia. I'm not being difficult I just don't know.

NATO was created to check Russia. Russia for centuries has been gobbling up portions of Europe then forced to spit it out, then gobbling it back up. Russia falling on hard times for two decades doesnt change the core mission of what NATO is no matter what the politicians say. Two decades in the scale of Euro politics is nothing.

Its in Russias interest as a nation state to poke the alliance and look for cracks.

 

[Fennis]

What makes NATO de facto aligned against Russia?

65 years of history.

OK. But isn't just a weeeeeeeee bit of that history kinda, you know, from a different era?I mean honestly, what direct policy or statements set NATO against Russia. I'm not being difficult I just don't know.

http://www.nato.int/nato-welcome/index.html

NATO’s essential purpose is to safeguard the freedom and security of its members through political and military means.

POLITICAL - NATO promotes democratic values and encourages consultation and cooperation on defence and security issues to build trust and, in the long run, prevent conflict.

MILITARY - NATO is committed to the peaceful resolution of disputes. If diplomatic efforts fail, it has the military capacity needed to undertake crisis-management operations. These are carried out under Article 5 of the Washington Treaty - NATO’s founding treaty - or under a UN mandate, alone or in cooperation with other countries and international organizations.

NATO is committed to the principle that an attack against one or several members is considered as an attack against all. This is the principle of collective defence, which is enshrined in Article 5 of the Washington Treaty.

So far, Article 5 has been invoked once - in response to the 9/11 terrorist attacks in the United States.

NATO is an alliance of countries from Europe and North America. It provides a unique link between these two continents for consultation and cooperation in the field of defence and security, and the conduct of multinational crisis-management operations.

Strategic Concepts lay down the Alliance’s core tasks and principles, its values, the evolving security environment and the Alliance’s strategic objectives for the next decade. The 2010 Strategic Concept defines NATO’s cores tasks as: collective defence, crisis-management and cooperative security.