Two Thirds of Americans are Overweight and/or Obese - A Blunt Conversation (1 Viewer)

[Dan Lambskin]

A scale

So at what weight do people start paying a penalty?

 

[supermike80]

So at what weight do people start paying a penalty?

Their potentially earlier death is the penalty.  I dont subscribe to more than that

 

[TripItUp]

So at what weight do people start paying a penalty?

It wouldn't be based solely on weight.  The Harvard article is a good start for the factors to be considered.

It's time to make the overweight/obese portion of the country pay for what they are costing us.  Don't like it?  Stop eating McDonalds and find a pair of running shoes.

 

[Dan Lambskin]

It's a sensitive topic and I prefer to keep the positive vibe of the FFA.

Generally speaking I prefer the govt not get involved, so if we can come up with a solution that doesn't inolve the govt, that would be preferred.

I don't pretend to be a health insurance expert, but it's clear we could figure it out as could the govt. Medicare officials.

I'd imagine it would be a combination of these and probably would entail some complexity incorporating a number of factors.

i thought you didn’t want to involve the government?

 

[TripItUp]

i thought you didn’t want to involve the government?

Yeah, the more I thought about it, the more I realized Medicare enables people to not take care of themselves.  

As a result, the govt would obviously need to be involved for changes made to Medicare.

 

[Terminalxylem]

In an ideal world we would be able to measure this risk, assess it, and price for it.   At least that’s my view as a credentialed actuary and someone running an insurance business.  Why wouldn’t we want to be able to do that?   The benefit from exercise might be 10x or 100x the “harm” — but ideally I’d still like to know what the data would say about the upside/downside.

Not to mention, you don't know the dose/response curve for health risks/benefits - it's likely lifelong, consistent exercisers do much more to prevent chronic disease (and associated costs) than promote expensive injuries, whereas sporadic participants probably tip the balance in the other direction. And as an insurer, how in the world would you know if people are reporting exercise accurately?

Much more practical to tax the bejeezus out of sugar sweetened beverages, fried foods, red/cured meats, pastries, white bread etc. 

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Not to mention, you don't know the dose/response curve for health risks/benefits - it's likely lifelong, consistent exercisers do much more to prevent chronic disease (and associated costs) than promote expensive injuries, whereas sporadic participants probably tip the balance in the other direction. And as an insurer, how in the world would you know if people are reporting exercise accurately?

Much more practical to tax the bejeezus out of sugar sweetened beverages, fried foods, red/cured meats, pastries, white bread etc. 

no disagreement on any of the above

 

[supermike80]

Much more practical to tax the bejeezus out of sugar sweetened beverages, fried foods, red/cured meats, pastries, white bread etc. 

On paper sure. But in reality no chance.  Low income people notoriously eat more poorly.  More minorities are poor than average.  And that means,  in this country, that proposal is racist.  Period

 

[BladeRunner]

On paper sure. But in reality no chance.  Low income people notoriously eat more poorly.  More minorities are poor than average.  And that means,  in this country, that proposal is racist.  Period

Which is kind of sad, because those people that want you to eat healthy are the same ones that are charging you 5-10 times the cost for those healthy items as opposed to the crap item.  Low income people have almost ZERO choice to eat healthy because they simply can't afford it.

 

[General Malaise]

Their potentially earlier death is the penalty.  I dont subscribe to more than that

Oh, good lord. You're going to die too.  Probably won't be pretty either, despite your chisled physique and ideal BMI.  

 

[General Malaise]

It wouldn't be based solely on weight.  The Harvard article is a good start for the factors to be considered.

It's time to make the overweight/obese portion of the country pay for what they are costing us.  Don't like it?  Stop eating McDonalds and find a pair of running shoes.

Post a photo of yourself for us to see. Do it now, I want to see what you look like.  If it's anything other than a Tom Brady figure I'm going to be disappointed.  

I think you're full of crap.  

 

[supermike80]

Oh, good lord. You're going to die too.  Probably won't be pretty either, despite your chisled physique and ideal BMI.  

Huh??

 

[AAABatteries]

Yes, because it tastes like a toilet seat.

AAA laughed at this and then took a sip of bourbon

   

 

[tonydead]

Post a photo of yourself for us to see. Do it now, I want to see what you look like.  If it's anything other than a Tom Brady figure I'm going to be disappointed.  

I think you're full of crap.  

Settle down good buddy, you're not that fat.

 

[Spartans Rule]

Also how are we calculating obesity in this situation?  
 

Rob Gronkowski has a BMI of 30+ and is considered obese.

RB David Montgomery is 32.3 and considered obese

Josh Allen is considered overweight with a 28.2 BMI

BMI is a laughably stupid statistic. It's weight over height squared. That's it. No accounting for body fat, bone structure, muscle mass, or any other factors. It just compares weight to height, and it doesn't even do that well. It was devised by a Belgian scientist in the 1800s who was studying the average size of the general population and never intended it to be used to measure obesity in individuals.

And this is our go-to stat. When you see that 2/3 of Americans are overweight, that's based on BMI. Doctors give serious advice based on this incredibly flawed number.

And then we expect average people to navigate through all the misinformation out there, ignore the fad diets and the crap food marketed as healthy, and come up with a diet and exercise plan that fits their body, their budget and their time constraints.

No chance we even make a dent in this problem as a society.

 

[General Malaise]

Settle down good buddy, you're not that fat.

I'm not oh my god level fat but I'm fat.  I'm also not afraid to post videos of myself making a fool of myself eating foods like a fat POS.  Is TripItUp man enough to post a photo of himself?  Survey says no.....

 

[General Malaise]

Huh??

You are going to die.  Do you think it will be a more pleasant death because you aren't fat?

 

[SoBeDad]

On paper sure. But in reality no chance.  Low income people notoriously eat more poorly.  More minorities are poor than average.  And that means,  in this country, that proposal is racist.  Period

West Virginia says hold my beer. Most obese state and very white. But yes, obesity is much higher among blacks and Hispanics than other racial/ethnic groups. Michelle Obama tried "Let's Move" to reduce childhood obesity.  don't think it was a success, but we can learn from it.

 

[Dan Lambskin]

Maybe we have an arbitrary panel development a human chart similar to r/Chonkers

I’d probably put myself in the HeftyChonk  category 

 

[Max Power]

Yes, because it tastes like a toilet seat.

I've never tried toilet seat, so I'll take your word

 

[sho nuff]

I've never tried toilet seat, so I'll take your word

Have enough Vodka and you may come close.

 

[MAC_32]

Which is kind of sad, because those people that want you to eat healthy are the same ones that are charging you 5-10 times the cost for those healthy items as opposed to the crap item.  Low income people have almost ZERO choice to eat healthy because they simply can't afford it.

Access can be an issue, but affordability generally isn't one. Sure, if the budget is a problem then yellowfin, shiitake, and blackberries may not be on the shopping list. But tuna, brocolli, and bananas? Sure. 

 

[Terminalxylem]

Also how are we calculating obesity in this situation?  
 

Rob Gronkowski has a BMI of 30+ and is considered obese.

RB David Montgomery is 32.3 and considered obese

Josh Allen is considered overweight with a 28.2 BMI

BMI is fine for the majority of people. In fact, it underestimates excess fat more than overestimates it.

But if people want to contest their number, body composition via DEXA is pretty simple, and already done for osteoporosis screening.

 

[Terminalxylem]

You are going to die.  Do you think it will be a more pleasant death because you aren't fat?

Possibly.

There was a study done a while ago, which looked at the cumulative benefit of healthy behaviors like not smoking, drinking to excess, maintaining a healthy weight and diet, consistently exercising, etc. Those who embraced all those behaviors lived like 11 years longer than those who didn’t.

They also measured the duration of debility at end-of-life. As it turns out, everyone suffers in the end, but the period of impaired functionality was significantly shorter for the healthy cohort, something like 2 vs. 7 years.

And that doesn’t even account for quality of life before functionality is impaired. I guarantee the average obese person has more aches and pains, shortness of breath and subjective feeling of being unwell than someone at a healthy weight. For many, the badness begins in middle age, if not earlier.

Now I’m reciting those numbers from memory, so the precise duration may be off a bit, but the take-home message remains: not taking care of yourself will shorten your life by years, and the quality of your shortened lifespan will be less than ideal for decades before the sh!t really hits the fan. While there are certainly outliers in all groups, few people die peacefully in their sleep with suffering kept at a minimum.

 

[Nugget]

This thread is a mix of libertarian paternalism and death panels. 

 

[General Malaise]

Possibly.

There was a study done a while ago, which looked at the cumulative benefit of healthy behaviors like not smoking, drinking to excess, maintaining a healthy weight and diet, consistently exercising, etc. Those who embraced all those behaviors lived like 11 years longer than those who didn’t.

They also measured the duration of debility at end-of-life. As it turns out, everyone suffers in the end, but the period of impaired functionality was significantly shorter for the healthy cohort, something like 2 vs. 7 years.

And that doesn’t even account for quality of life before functionality is impaired. I guarantee the average obese person has more aches and pains, shortness of breath and subjective feeling of being unwell than someone at a healthy weight. For many, the badness begins in middle age, if not earlier.

Now I’m reciting those numbers from memory, so the precise duration may be off a bit, but the take-home message remains: not taking care of yourself will shorten your life by years, and the quality of your shortened lifespan will be less than ideal for decades before the sh!t really hits the fan. While there are certainly outliers in all groups, few people die peacefully in their sleep with suffering kept at a minimum.

We are both worm food.  If you suffer less at the very end than me, good job I guess.   

 

[Terminalxylem]

We are both worm food.  If you suffer less at the very end than me, good job I guess.   

Realizing there are no guarantees, I’ll damn well do everything in my power to maximize my quality of life for years, if not decades. Extra life on top of that is icing on the worm cake.

I’ve seen a lot of people die, many of them obese, and not one of them has expressed fond memories of all the extra calories. In the end, most people want more time with loved ones, and a lot less suffering.

 

[supermike80]

You are going to die.  Do you think it will be a more pleasant death because you aren't fat?

What on earth are you talking about?  

 

[General Malaise]

What on earth are you talking about?  

I don't know, I was day drinking and fantasizing about Swiss death pods.

 

[Caveman33]

You have some valid points here but it would depend on what you mean.

For example learning how to cut up and cook a chicken is not hard. Making the decision to do it instead of buying a breaded chicken sandwich is hard. 

People like what they like. That's the point I made earlier. It is a much more honest discussion to me to say I get why people would eat a ding dong instead of an apple because ding dongs are freaking awesome. Its a bs discussion to say they cant afford apples or dont know about apples or made a calorie per dollar assessment comparing the two. 

I realize I'm in the minority but I always make calorie/dollar decisions at the grocery store.  I am lucky/unlucky in that I have skinny genetics but also require about 4K calories a day to maintain strength and weight.  Ideally, I should be exclusively cooking for myself.  When buying prepared food, I wish I could find unseasoned chicken breast, rice and broccoli but there isn't much of a market for that.  Regardless of genetic weight disposition, if people realized how much better activity/healthy eating made their quality of life, I think the food market would change.

 

[supermike80]

I don't know, I was day drinking and fantasizing about Swiss death pods.

Ok