Dodge
Footballguy
He didn't have any fumbles. There was only two turnovers in the game from what I remember. Eli INT off of Smith's hands and Brady being stripped before the end of the 1st Half on the 50 yd line.
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Tyree Should be MVP (1 Viewer)
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Despyzer
Lousy Attention Whore
RC94
Footballguy
What is wrong with you? Where did I say that? If you actually read this thread I said the D-line deserved the MVP, but you are just going to make things up, such as fumbles that aren't lost still count as a turnover and that I suddenly anointed Eli, aren't you? Gotcha.Despyzer said:
Dodge
Footballguy
When did he otherwise fumble? Was it the play where Bradshow batted the ball forward and Smith recovered it. Is that what you're talking about? We anoint Eli because he led an 80+ yard drive with 2+ mins left on the clock to win the game. Thats why. Let me know when you get over your hatred for him.Despyzer said:
RC94
Footballguy
ETA - there is something wrong with that box score. if you go to game center it says he didn't lose any and the summary says they didn't lose any. Also, I thought Bradshaw was one of the people who fumbled.
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Dodge
Footballguy
Box score says there were two fumbles and 0 lost. And one of those was where Bradshaw lost it in a hand off and recovered it.
TheLastDispatch
Footballguy
Agree
Tyree deserved it over Eli.
Eli made a fantastic play escaping from the sack, but the 32 yarder to Tyree was one of the worst decisions I've seen a QB make in a big game. You don't throw a jump ball into triple coverage in the middle of the field to a 5'10 WR. Eli should have settled for a 10 or so yard scramble and a slide and lived for another play.
Of course, I'm in the minority that thinks Justin Tuck deserved it. He was DOMINANT.
Eli made a fantastic play escaping from the sack, but the 32 yarder to Tyree was one of the worst decisions I've seen a QB make in a big game. You don't throw a jump ball into triple coverage in the middle of the field to a 5'10 WR. Eli should have settled for a 10 or so yard scramble and a slide and lived for another play.
Of course, I'm in the minority that thinks Justin Tuck deserved it. He was DOMINANT.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Nope. Eli had one turnover in the game. One. I watched the game. Did you?Despyzer said:
Despyzer
Lousy Attention Whore
Yes. I watched it close enough to see him fumble twice. Did you?
Wouldn't that make it a bad throw then?
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
I watched the game AGAIN last night.1) Eli never lost a fumble. His main botch up was the handoff to Bradshaw and I am not sure who was at fault there. the handoff seemed just slightly high but I thought Bradshaw should have held on.2) Someone incorrectly said Eli's decision to just to throw the ball to the middle field into "triple coverage" was a horrible decision. Actually he spotted the one guy who was in single coverage with nobody else around him (other defenders). How else could the ball that had a lot of hang time not allow any other defenders to get near the play? He did throw it up in a one on one situation and his receiver made a great play. I think he played the percentages there.3) Brandon Jacobs had an unsung game. He did a fantastic job at picking up blitzers and hurt some of the NE players (ran over Mayweather and Bruschi). He may not be quick, but the guy has top end speed, picks up blitzers great, has pretty good vision and is a weapon because he can wear a defense down. I think he is more valuable than his stat line shows based on the wearing down factor (Wilfolk made an arm tackle on Jacobs and slightly hurt himself on the play). We saw in the GB game that when Jacobs just ran over Woodson that Woodson didn;t want anymore part of tackling the rest of the game....he is a big plus!4) Who were those Giant corners? They really covered well; of course a good pass rush helps a lot.5) Tuck had a monster game; he would be the one guy on defense if you had to choose one.6) Strahan made Brady move a lot more than he wanted to7) Cofield didn't give Brady room to step up and had the HUGE sack on the final drive. What a great draft pick.8) I still don't get Belichik's decision to go for the 4th and 13 and then punt on 4th and 2? Seemed to me like he played it backwards.9) Eli made some really good decisions during the game. there were many times where his first option was not there. In fact, on the final drive they were trying to get the ball to Plax a few times and each time Eli went away from Plax because it wasn't there. of course, the final play for them found him wide open10) Spag's did a great job with the defense. Blitzing on the 1st play on NE's final drive made them much more desperate and then he didn't blitz again. 3 TO's and only needing a FG, you had to figure that NE had a 30-40% chance of tying the game. It still feels great. Enjoy it folks, this was a memorable run!
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
No, he threw to the one guy who had a chance to make a play. If he threw elsewhere a pick might have resulted, so his decision was to give his receiver a chance to make a play (and there was almost no chance of a pick as Tyree had position) or throw it away. If he would have thrown it to anyone else the decision would have been bad.Dodge said:Wouldn't that make it a bad throw then?
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
But neither resulted in a turnover, and that is the whole point of this conversation, so what exactly is your point? The whole crux of this discussion has been how many times Eli turned the ball over. He turned it over once. Are you disputing this?
Despyzer
Lousy Attention Whore
Are you asking me whether I consider it to his credit that his teammates jumped on his loose balls before the other team did? No, I really don't. I also don't really discredit him for that INT. You just want to argue statistics?
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
No, I was discussing the comment made by the OP where he said that Eli turned the ball over more than he led the Giants to TDs. He was wrong. I pointed this out. Not sure what you are trying to gain here.
Despyzer
Lousy Attention Whore
Manning played one of the sloppiest games of any SB-winning quarterback that I can think of (including Roethlisberger). He potentially turned the ball over on a consistent basis during each quarter. The fact that DBs didn't pick off balls that they really should have, WRs fought hard for balls that they really shouldn't have had to, and Eli's teammates were able to recover his fumbles doesn't equate to an MVP performance, in my opinion. I really think this was more the message of the OP, rather than whether fumbles that are recovered by the offense are or are not actually turnovers.I really have nothing to gain here, other than to illuminate the masses that have given in to the "Eli is elite" mentality.No, I was discussing the comment made by the OP where he said that Eli turned the ball over more than he led the Giants to TDs. He was wrong. I pointed this out. Not sure what you are trying to gain here.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
I have not given in to the "Eli is elite" mentality. I think he more than deserved the Super Bowl MVP, but he will have to be more consistent over the course of his career before he becomes truly elite.
Also, just about every game involves both QBs making throws that the defense could pick off, so that is really nothing new. In the AFC title game two years ago, one of Roethlisberger's first passes was nearly picked off and ran back for a TD by Champ Bailey. But it wasn't, and Roethlisberger went on to have a spectacular game. Do people remember that near INT? Nope. They remember the plays he made that enabled his team to win; just like Eli in the Super Bowl.
Also, just about every game involves both QBs making throws that the defense could pick off, so that is really nothing new. In the AFC title game two years ago, one of Roethlisberger's first passes was nearly picked off and ran back for a TD by Champ Bailey. But it wasn't, and Roethlisberger went on to have a spectacular game. Do people remember that near INT? Nope. They remember the plays he made that enabled his team to win; just like Eli in the Super Bowl.
No, he threw to the one guy who had a chance to make a play. If he threw elsewhere a pick might have resulted, so his decision was to give his receiver a chance to make a play (and there was almost no chance of a pick as Tyree had position) or throw it away. If he would have thrown it to anyone else the decision would have been bad.Wouldn't that make it a bad throw then?
The correct play was pulling the ball down and running with it. Eli was VERY lucky Tyree bailed him out of a bad throw that could just have easily been the low point of his career. I dont know how you can think the 5'10 Tyree had "position" on a throw that went 35 yards in the air, and likely had a 2+ second hang time. Thats a horrible reach to justify your argument.
Koya
Footballguy
Its hard to think that anyone who has knowledge of the game would call that a "bad throw" - the remark is so utterly misguided it makes you wonder.After escaping a near sure sack, manning positions himself, sets his feet and finds the ONLY guy who is single covered.Not only that, manning delivers a pass that is on the money, even if it needed the WR to reach up and jump,... and he got it there with enough gas that while the Pats were all sitting in a deep zone, only ONE defensive back could contest Tyree's catch.I mean, what the heck else would you want from eli? Want him to pass it SO hard that the wind gusts push away the one defender who was even close? Really.No, he threw to the one guy who had a chance to make a play. If he threw elsewhere a pick might have resulted, so his decision was to give his receiver a chance to make a play (and there was almost no chance of a pick as Tyree had position) or throw it away. If he would have thrown it to anyone else the decision would have been bad.Wouldn't that make it a bad throw then?
Koya
Footballguy
This is not a thread abotu whether or not eli is elite. But he was beyond elite in that fourth quarter of the Super Bowl and therefore is more than deserving of the MVP.How that translates into consistency we will see.
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
Despyzer, this is an absurd comment and totally inaccurateManning played one of the sloppiest games of any SB-winning quarterback that I can think of (including Roethlisberger). He potentially turned the ball over on a consistent basis during each quarter. The fact that DBs didn't pick off balls that they really should have, WRs fought hard for balls that they really shouldn't have had to, and Eli's teammates were able to recover his fumbles doesn't equate to an MVP performance, in my opinion. I really think this was more the message of the OP, rather than whether fumbles that are recovered by the offense are or are not actually turnovers.I really have nothing to gain here, other than to illuminate the masses that have given in to the "Eli is elite" mentality.No, I was discussing the comment made by the OP where he said that Eli turned the ball over more than he led the Giants to TDs. He was wrong. I pointed this out. Not sure what you are trying to gain here.
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
No, he threw to the one guy who had a chance to make a play. If he threw elsewhere a pick might have resulted, so his decision was to give his receiver a chance to make a play (and there was almost no chance of a pick as Tyree had position) or throw it away. If he would have thrown it to anyone else the decision would have been bad.Wouldn't that make it a bad throw then?
The correct play was pulling the ball down and running with it. Eli was VERY lucky Tyree bailed him out of a bad throw that could just have easily been the low point of his career. I dont know how you can think the 5'10 Tyree had "position" on a throw that went 35 yards in the air, and likely had a 2+ second hang time. Thats a horrible reach to justify your argument.
It does not seem like you even watched the play??? Position means that the no defender could catch the ball or have an opportunity. After catching up to Tyree (Harrison was not that close to him when the ball was released) the best Harrison could do was try and knock the ball out of Tyree's hands, but Harrison had no chance at catching the ball...thus position. Further, saying Eli could run is simply incorrect. As Eli stopped to throw the ball the NE defenders were bearing down on him; if he ran he would have lost yards and time.
Despyzer
Lousy Attention Whore
Hard to argue with an iron-clad argument like that.
