U.S. Ambassador to Libya Killed in Rocket Attack (1 Viewer)

[Max Power]

No.

I think the one thing I would be upset with Hillary on is the development of the Libyan policy in the first place and the fact that she apparently personally swayed Pres. Obama to get militarily involved there. I think it's part and parcel of some really disturbing poor decision making in the mideast from 1990-2016.

We responded based on the state department claim.  What they say was too little too late. There is room for improvement, I' m not sold that Hillary is 100% to blame.  I'll say the DOD wants to improve and is currently at a 95% solution.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

We responded based on the state department claim.  What they say was too little too late. There is room for improvement, I' m not sold that Hillary is 100% to blame.  I'll say the DOD wants to improve and is currently at a 95% solution.

I have complete faith in our military, and a lot of our intelligence and diplomatic corps. I guess if there is something surprising from all this, taking everyone at their word, I had always thought, and I bet a lot of people did, that we could respond militarily to any threat in the Med Sea perimeter within fairly short order.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Thanks for your service and thanks for sharing your thoughts Max.  Interesting to hear what you guys were thinking/doing as this unfolded.

 

[MaxThreshold]

I also find it hilarious that conservatives have convinced themselves that The Donald, in any way, represents their core values.

For the record, Donald does not represent my core values.  But neither does Hillary.  You see the conundrum here?

 

[Max Power]

Then presumably everything on your workstation was analyzed by the commission and taken into account prior to their final conclusions.

Seeing as how partisan the commission was, if there was anything specifically incriminating in there they would have sussed it out.

So is there anything you can add, without getting into trouble of course, that would cast any doubt on the conclusions of the multi-year, multi-million dollar partisan commission?

Our initial take was that the video caused the violence. We sent respondents before America approved of it. The view of our unit changed over time. 

 

[MaxThreshold]

No - you aren't paying attention.  I have considered Hillary a gimme for the Republicans for years.  A bonafide POS.

Which tells you something when she wins in a landslide over this clown who was able to straight up jack the republican party and become its nominee.

You and I butt heads on political topics, but I don't think you are a fool.  You know damn well Trump himself  is wondering what the hell happened... this profitable publicity stunt got WAY away from him.

Very well said.

There's nothing here i can argue with.  WTF?  Dude!

 

[Max Power]

I have complete faith in our military, and a lot of our intelligence and diplomatic corps. I guess if there is something surprising from all this, taking everyone at their word, I had always thought, and I bet a lot of people did, that we could respond militarily to any thread in the Med Sea perimeter within fairly short order.

You're a good American.  As I said... American can get a response team to any location in quick time.  We don't necessarily know the situation though.

 

[dparker713]

Not sure why you find that funny because that really isn't the case...the issue many conservatives have is they are tired of "campaign conservatives"...politicians who campaign as conservatives and than throw away what they said during the campaign once they get elected...also, one thing that appeals to many is Trump's anti-political correctness stance...he will tell the elites to screw and does not bow-down to the New York Times altar or run away in fear once the usual suspects start calling him the names any GOP contender will get...I don't think there are many conservatives who see Trump as a conservative savior because he is not...I think many are simply tired of the phony conservatives and have nowhere else to turn at this point in the election season if their ultimate goal is keeping Hillary out of the White House...

Except when he's asking them for money.

Billionaire?

 

[Max Power]

Thanks for your service and thanks for sharing your thoughts Max.  Interesting to hear what you guys were thinking/doing as this unfolded.

It was a mess.  Similar to any "breaking" news story.  We go off the intel we have and adjust as needed.

 

[Chaka]

For the record, Donald does not represent my core values.  But neither does Hillary.  You see the conundrum here?

Not even a little bit.  The fact that you are trying to equate Drumpf and the danger he represents to Hillary who, at worst, represents the status quo is the conundrum. 

 

[Max Power]

I said this two years ago, and I'll say it again, but this thread should be closed and shot into space. Thx 

Agreed, lets take the lessons learned and move forward.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

It was a mess.  Similar to any "breaking" news story.  We go off the intel we have and adjust as needed.

If you can answer... were you getting information from multiple sources during the event itself?  DOD/State/CIA/etc?  If so how are those sources synthesized and who makes the call on how to respond in real time?

 

[MaxThreshold]

Not even a little bit.  The fact that you are trying to equate Drumpf and the danger he represents to Hillary who, at worst, represents the status quo is the conundrum. 

Listen.  I respect your posts.  I think Hillary is a lying, untrustworthy snake who's in it simply for the power.  I think that is more intimately more dangerous than the guy who thinks, "OH ####.  I didn't think I would get this far.  Now what?".

Edit:   "intimately".  I meant "infinately".

 

[Max Power]

We responded based on the state department claim.  What they say was too little too late. There is room for improvement, I' m not sold that Hillary is 100% to blame.  I'll say the DOD wants to improve and is currently at a 95% solution.

To better respond to your idea, We can push a team to any location withing 12 hours.  People who thing America isnt on call at all times are foolish.

 

[Chaka]

No.

I think the one thing I would be upset with Hillary on is the development of the Libyan policy in the first place and the fact that she apparently personally swayed Pres. Obama to get militarily involved there. I think it's part and parcel of some really disturbing poor decision making in the mideast from 1990-2016.

Pres. Obama himself called it a sh|tshow.

That, yeah, I think coudl be laid at Hillary's feet and frankly it reminds me of her vote for war with Iraq.

Larry Willmore had a pretty good observation on the Bill Maher last Friday.  She was in the first year of her first term as the Senator from New York when 9/11 happened. How else was she supposed to vote?

 

[MaxThreshold]

To better respond to your idea, We can push a team to any location withing 12 hours.  People who thing America isnt on call at all times are foolish.

Did you just reply to yourself?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Larry Willmore had a pretty good observation on the Bill Maher last Friday.  She was in the first year of her first term as the Senator from New York when 9/11 happened. How else was she supposed to vote?

Yeah, I agree. And you know what it's a great point, I would believe that. I wish she would just say that and defend that, I'd love her for it even if it was the wrong call.

 

[timschochet]

Saints I think your analysis is well thought out and fair. 

Max, thank you for your service. 

 

[MaxThreshold]

Saints I think your analysis is well thought out and fair. 

Max, thank you for your service. 

Which Max?  Because I served too.

 

[Rich Conway]

Larry Willmore had a pretty good observation on the Bill Maher last Friday.  She was in the first year of her first term as the Senator from New York when 9/11 happened. How else was she supposed to vote?

I don't think she gets to simultaneously claim "I was so new, I didn't know any better" and "My eight years as First Lady provided valuable political experience".

 

[MaxThreshold]

I don't think she gets to simultaneously claim "I was so new, I didn't know any better" and "My eight years as First Lady provided valuable political experience".

damn right.

 

[badmojo1006]

Listen.  I respect your posts.  I think Hillary is a lying, untrustworthy snake who's in it simply for the power.  I think that is more intimately more dangerous than the guy who thinks, "OH ####.  I didn't think I would get this far.  Now what?".

Edit:   "intimately".  I meant "infinately".

So you would rather have someone who doesn't have a clue what he would be doing?

 

[dparker713]

You dont get it, we are sick of these recycled politicians.  Nothing changes accept for more Isis, and less jobs. 

There are more people employed in the US right now than at any other point in history.

 

[joffer]

I don't think she gets to simultaneously claim "I was so new, I didn't know any better" and "My eight years as First Lady provided valuable political experience".

They could have voted to nuke Iran after 9/11 and most senators would have been afraid to vote against.

 

[BeaverCleaver]

There are more people employed in the US right now than at any other point in history.

And the pecentage of people on welfare is at a record high.

 

[timschochet]

Which Max?  Because I served too.

Why then both of you. Thank you. 

 

[dparker713]

And the pecentage of people on welfare is at a record high.

This is relevant to the number of jobs in this country, how?

 

[MaxThreshold]

Why then both of you. Thank you. 

For future reference, you can call @MaxPower Lil' M.  You can refer to me as Big M since I was here first.

Update: And thanks, Tim!

 

[timschochet]

They could have voted to nuke Iran after 9/11 and most senators would have been afraid to vote against.

That doesn't excuse Hillary. She was probably the most prominent Democratic Senator to vote in favor. She gave a forceful speech. Because of her name and role as a First Lady, she gave the Iraq invasion a bipartisan approval. She deserves criticism, though not nearly as much as those who designed and executed the war. 

Personally however though I was opposed and think it was a terrible decision, I also think it was somewhat inevitable. I have always firmly believed that Al Gore would have invaded as well. I also think that guys like Bernie Sanders and Obama who were vocally opposed don't deserve nearly the credit that they get now because their opposition was more ideological than pragmatic. 

But my biggest scorn is for those conservatives who attacked anybody opposed as unpatriotic and now wish to forget that little piece of history while at the same time having the gall to criticize Obama's foreign policy, which, in the Middle East, has consisted of trying to pick up the pieces the best he could. 

 

[joffer]

That doesn't excuse Hillary. She was probably the most prominent Democratic Senator to vote in favor. She gave a forceful speech. Because of her name and role as a First Lady, she gave the Iraq invasion a bipartisan approval. She deserves criticism, though not nearly as much as those who designed and executed the war. 

Personally however though I was opposed and think it was a terrible decision, I also think it was somewhat inevitable. I have always firmly believed that Al Gore would have invaded as well. I also think that guys like Bernie Sanders and Obama who were vocally opposed don't deserve nearly the credit that they get now because their opposition was more ideological than pragmatic. 

But my biggest scorn is for those conservatives who attacked anybody opposed as unpatriotic and now wish to forget that little piece of history while at the same time having the gall to criticize Obama's foreign policy, which, in the Middle East, has consisted of trying to pick up the pieces the best he could. 

Fair point

 

[Boston]

Except when he's asking them for money.

Billionaire?

I guess our definitions of elites are different...I don't consider someone being an elitist for simply being wealthy...

 

[Quez]

There are more people employed in the US right now than at any other point in history.

Many are critical of the job reports.  Whether it's the unemployment rates compared to #'s in workplace, people reduced to part time work, etc.  

 

[dparker713]

I don't think she gets to simultaneously claim "I was so new, I didn't know any better" and "My eight years as First Lady provided valuable political experience".

So which elites do you believe Trump will tell to screw?

 

[cstu]

That doesn't excuse Hillary. She was probably the most prominent Democratic Senator to vote in favor. She gave a forceful speech. Because of her name and role as a First Lady, she gave the Iraq invasion a bipartisan approval. She deserves criticism, though not nearly as much as those who designed and executed the war. 

Personally however though I was opposed and think it was a terrible decision, I also think it was somewhat inevitable. I have always firmly believed that Al Gore would have invaded as well. I also think that guys like Bernie Sanders and Obama who were vocally opposed don't deserve nearly the credit that they get now because their opposition was more ideological than pragmatic. 

But my biggest scorn is for those conservatives who attacked anybody opposed as unpatriotic and now wish to forget that little piece of history while at the same time having the gall to criticize Obama's foreign policy, which, in the Middle East, has consisted of trying to pick up the pieces the best he could. 

C'mon.

 

[Smack Tripper]

We did think the youtube video caused the attack for the first 24 hours. 

Thank your for service. Thank you for your time in here. 

What is your opinion of this in particular?  As an outsider it feels impossible to believe that we could be so throughly detached from the pulse of the people. But then again, impossible is a big word and I can see how things can be gotten very wrong in an environment where looking for the wrong things is not seen favorably. 

How substantial of a failure was it in your mind?

Have steps been taken to change this disconnect, be it in personnel, leadership or methodology?

Do you have a personal or professional opinion of HRC running Witj this narrative for 5-7 days following the incident?

 

[Smack Tripper]

There are more people employed in the US right now than at any other point in history.

Does this count uber drivers?

 

[Rich Conway]

I don't think she gets to simultaneously claim "I was so new, I didn't know any better" and "My eight years as First Lady provided valuable political experience".

So which elites do you believe Trump will tell to screw?

I'm not sure what this means, or what it has to do with my comment.

 

[Max Power]

Thank your for service. Thank you for your time in here. 

What is your opinion of this in particular?  As an outsider it feels impossible to believe that we could be so throughly detached from the pulse of the people. But then again, impossible is a big word and I can see how things can be gotten very wrong in an environment where looking for the wrong things is not seen favorably. 

How substantial of a failure was it in your mind?

Have steps been taken to change this disconnect, be it in personnel, leadership or methodology?

Do you have a personal or professional opinion of HRC running Witj this narrative for 5-7 days following the incident?

Its a 50/50 call in my eyes.  The State department failed to provide adequate security for the consulate in Benghazi.  They failed globally if we're counting.  The events that took place were one in 100.  There were forces ready to provide coverage, but nothing was close enough to change the immediate response.

  Hillary should eat the failure.  I wont hold her feet to the fire, but a true leader of people should for personal accountability.

Steps have been taken to assure this wont go down like benghazi.  There are reaction teams in every AOR on alert if something happens.

I think HRC should be indited for her actions.  There is a very large movement in the intelligence community against her.  If she is elected, expect mass resignations, internal lawsuits, and overall chaos related to national security.

 

[timschochet]

Its a 50/50 call in my eyes.  The State department failed to provide adequate security for the consulate in Benghazi.  They failed globally if we're counting.  The events that took place were one in 100.  There were forces ready to provide coverage, but nothing was close enough to change the immediate response.

  Hillary should eat the failure.  I wont hold her feet to the fire, but a true leader of people should for personal accountability.

Steps have been taken to assure this wont go down like benghazi.  There are reaction teams in every AOR on alert if something happens.

I think HRC should be indited for her actions.  There is a very large movement in the intelligence community against her.  If she is elected, expect mass resignations, internal lawsuits, and overall chaos related to national security.

I'm extremely skeptical about this. 

 

[dparker713]

I'm not sure what this means, or what it has to do with my comment.

Stupid board software.  It was a response to Boston

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Larry Willmore had a pretty good observation on the Bill Maher last Friday.  She was in the first year of her first term as the Senator from New York when 9/11 happened. How else was she supposed to vote?

I don't think she gets to simultaneously claim "I was so new, I didn't know any better" and "My eight years as First Lady provided valuable political experience".

I'm not sure the claim is that she was new and didn't know any better so much as that she was a Senator from New York, where the Twin Towers used to be, so in order to represent her New York constituents, she was morally obligated to irrationally bomb the heck out of anyone who could remotely be linked to 9/11, no matter how tenuously, if it was put to her vote.

I do hold it against her for getting the wrong answer, and I do give credit to the people who got it right. But I can sympathize with the people who got it wrong since I was in that group myself, figuring "President Bush has better intelligence than I do, so I'll defer to him and support whatever he decides." If the President decides to intervene in create a foreign conflict, and I as a Senator don't have enough information to competently second-guess him on it, there's a reasonable argument for showing him public support for the sake of morale. So while I do hold it against her, I don't dock her too many points for it.

 

[Chaka]

I don't think she gets to simultaneously claim "I was so new, I didn't know any better" and "My eight years as First Lady provided valuable political experience".

You didn't get the point.  It wasn't that she didn't know any better it's simply that there was no other option for the Senator from New York.

And, yes actually you do get to claim valuable political experience.  How do you think experience is gained?

 

[FishTacoTuesday]

Because I served too.

We aren't counting Applebee's two for Tuesdays. 

 

[bueno]

He's the conservative party's nominee, it's best to start coming to grips with that fact. That scary, insane fact.  

Which conservatives are those?  All the ones that are going to vote for him based purely upon the fact that he's not HRC, and not considering for a moment what he actually is, a thin-skinned, reactionary, petty man who consistently throws out unconscionably racist, sexist and nationalistic rhetoric.  Yay, us???

Oh. I thought he was the Republican Party nominee to be. I don't think the Republicans have been conservative since Reagan.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

We aren't counting Applebee's two for Tuesdays. 

Not that you necessarily care, but this crosses the line IMO.

 

[Chaka]

Oh. I thought he was the Republican Party nominee to be. I don't think the Republicans have been conservative since Reagan.

Okay I don't think it's worth playing semantics getting into definitions of what "conservative" means to each of us.  So he's the Republican nominee.

Let me update then:

He's the Republican party's nominee, it's best to start coming to grips with that fact. That scary, insane fact.  



Which Republicans are those?  All the ones that are going to vote for him based purely upon the fact that he's not HRC, and not considering for a moment what he actually is, a thin-skinned, reactionary, petty man who consistently throws out unconscionably racist, sexist and nationalistic rhetoric.  Yay, us??? 




And regardless of whether or not you hate/despise/loathe HRC, if you live in a battleground state, what is best for the nation as a whole is to make sure Drumpf gets no closer to the White House than he already is.  In California I have the luxury of lodging a protest vote but if Brexit has taught us nothing else, in states like Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Ohio etc. protest votes for Drumpf run counter to what is best for the nation.

 

[cstu]

I'm not sure the claim is that she was new and didn't know any better so much as that she was a Senator from New York, where the Twin Towers used to be, so in order to represent her New York constituents, she was morally obligated to irrationally bomb the heck out of anyone who could remotely be linked to 9/11, no matter how tenuously, if it was put to her vote.

I do hold it against her for getting the wrong answer, and I do give credit to the people who got it right. But I can sympathize with the people who got it wrong since I was in that group myself, figuring "President Bush has better intelligence than I do, so I'll defer to him and support whatever he decides." If the President decides to intervene in create a foreign conflict, and I as a Senator don't have enough information to competently second-guess him on it, there's a reasonable argument for showing him public support for the sake of morale. So while I do hold it against her, I don't dock her too many points for it.

She technically never irrationally bombed anyone - she voted to give Bush the power to irrationally bomb Iraq.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

@David Dodds

if you are talking requests, this one can go.