U.S. Ambassador to Libya Killed in Rocket Attack (1 Viewer)

[flapgreen]

You have been trying to run this theme for months now.

I don't think you have even managed to convince yourself.

You look so ridiculous with every additional post you put on here  Move along,  lemming.   Follow the leader. 

 

[Abraham]

What has she done that is good? What makes her qualified?  Is it because she has been in the government for so many years?  That,  alone,  makes her the best choice? 

Yes. When the alternative is a guy that says stuff without any logic, she is the best choice. 

 

[tommyGunZ]

What has she done that is good? What makes her qualified?  Is it because she has been in the government for so many years?  That,  alone,  makes her the best choice? 

Shtick?  You can't be this ignorant.  

 

[pantagrapher]

NRA to run $2 million Benghazi-themed ad campaign for Trump

 

[shadrap]

So we have Irishidiot and Max retreating to the very poignant "BUT THAT POLITICIAN IS A LIAR!" routine.

An impressive plan B if ever there was one.

No plan.  No plan B.   It is what it is.  She lied to further her political ambitions.  Apparently this is okay.

Good for you & her.

 

[Lutherman2112]

Fear not folks, the Benghazi report is not the end.

Benghazi merchandise!

 

[Chaka]

What has she done that is good? What makes her qualified?  Is it because she has been in the government for so many years?  That,  alone,  makes her the best choice? 

Sadly when the alternative is Drumpf, yes that makes her the best choice.  Unquestionably. HRC is status-quo, which sucks but Drumpf is legitimately dangerous.  4-8 more years of the status quo is far, far better than even a week of a Drumpf/Kardashian (presumably) ticket.

 

[MaxThreshold]

Your insistence on equivocating the two is the problem.

I can't keep my head buried in the sand like you. I'm willing to admit they are both POS.

 

[MaxThreshold]

He is trying to convince himself by making the empty effort over and over.

Hardly empty...logical people believe they are both terrible.  Not sure why you think your POS is better than any other POS.

 

[matuski]

No plan.  No plan B.   It is what it is.  She lied to further her political ambitions.  Apparently this is okay.

Good for you & her.

“I understand that after more than two years and $7 million spent by the Benghazi committee out of taxpayer funds, it had to today report it found nothing, nothing to contradict the conclusions of the independent accountability board or the conclusions of the earlier prior investigations carried out on a bipartisan basis in the Congress,” Clinton said. “So while this unfortunately took on a partisan tinge, I want us to stay focused on what we’ve always stayed focused on, and that is the important work of diplomacy and development.”

 

[matuski]

Hardly empty...logical people believe they are both terrible.  Not sure why you think your POS is better than any other POS.

Not many disagree that both are terrible.

Nobody (not even you) believes there is an equivocation to be made between the two.

On the scale of terribleness, one is off the charts.. the other is merely a less than desirable career politician.

 

[joffer]

I can't keep my head buried in the sand like you. I'm willing to admit they are both POS.

If one guy steals a kid's ice cream cone, he's a POS.

if another guy throws the same kid off a cliff, he's a bigger POS.

QED

 

[MaxThreshold]

“I understand that after more than two years and $7 million spent by the Benghazi committee out of taxpayer funds, it had to today report it found nothing, nothing to contradict the conclusions of the independent accountability board or the conclusions of the earlier prior investigations carried out on a bipartisan basis in the Congress,” Clinton said. “So while this unfortunately took on a partisan tinge, I want us to stay focused on what we’ve always stayed focused on, and that is the important work of diplomacy and development.”

So, you think you can believe her?  Being a known liar and all?

Not many disagree that both are terrible.

Nobody (not even you) believes there is an equivocation to be made between the two.

On the scale of terribleness, one is off the charts.. the other a less than desirable career politician.

Is "Nobody" what you use to convince yourself you're not supporting a POS?

Because very many people believe one is lying, corrupt, shady POS with a proven track record of failure at everything she touches and one is a lying, bufoonish POS with a proven track record of some success and some failures and everything he touches.

 

[MaxThreshold]

If one guy steals a kid's ice cream cone, he's a POS.

if another guy throws the same kid off a cliff, he's a bigger POS.

QED

But that's not the case here.  They both thru the kid off the cliff together. One held the arms and the other held the legs.

 

[Quez]

I really think the Clintons are just trolling us all at this point.  Loretta Lynch meeting yesterday with Bill, while her decision of whether to put Hillary in front of a grand jury is pending?  You got to be f'n kidding me.  The server was in his house!  Unbelievable.  I bet she left his plane with a briefcase full of cash, and a load on her blouse.

 

[Jayrok]

I really think the Clintons are just trolling us all at this point. 

Monarchs tend to be above the law. 

 

[Quez]

Monarchs tend to be above the law. 

Seriously, then they ask her about it, and she says there is nothing wrong with it.  Even Tim would probably say that it looks bad, and is a conflict of interest.

 

[Jayrok]

 Even Tim would probably say that it looks bad, and is a conflict of interest.

Sure about that?  I think he may be defending it in the HRC thread as a courtesy by the USAG to keep Bill informed as to what's going on with the "inquiry."  

 

[The Commish]

Seriously, then they ask her about it, and she says there is nothing wrong with it.  Even Tim would probably say that it looks bad, and is a conflict of interest.

wanna bet?

 

[Joe Summer]

She lied to further her political ambitions. Apparently this is okay.

All forms of political lying should be outlawed, by punishment of death.

 

[Chaka]

I can't keep my head buried in the sand like you. I'm willing to admit they are both POS.

Hardly empty...logical people believe they are both terrible.  Not sure why you think your POS is better than any other POS.

Once again I think pretty much everyone agrees that they both suck.  But, as with everything else, there are degrees as to how much they suck and Trump is a universe swallowing Black Hole who is legitimately dangerous, relative to Clinton who represents, at worst a Kirby vacuum cleaner of suckitude.  I will take status quo over a significant potential threat to our nation.

So, you think you can believe her?  Being a known liar and all?

It doesn't matter if we believe her, but we should believe the partisan commission that did everything they possibly could to find her in any way culpable for Benghazi and despite their best efforts, and millions of our wasted tax dollars, they came up with nothing.

 

[Chaka]

I also find it hilarious that conservatives have convinced themselves that The Donald, in any way, represents their core values.

 

[Boston]

I also find it hilarious that conservatives have convinced themselves that The Donald, in any way, represents their core values.

Not sure why you find that funny because that really isn't the case...the issue many conservatives have is they are tired of "campaign conservatives"...politicians who campaign as conservatives and than throw away what they said during the campaign once they get elected...also, one thing that appeals to many is Trump's anti-political correctness stance...he will tell the elites to screw and does not bow-down to the New York Times altar or run away in fear once the usual suspects start calling him the names any GOP contender will get...I don't think there are many conservatives who see Trump as a conservative savior because he is not...I think many are simply tired of the phony conservatives and have nowhere else to turn at this point in the election season if their ultimate goal is keeping Hillary out of the White House...

 

[Chaka]

Not sure why you find that funny because that really isn't the case...the issue many conservatives have is they are tired of "campaign conservatives"...politicians who campaign as conservatives and than throw away what they said during the campaign once they get elected...also, one thing that appeals to many is Drumpf's anti-political correctness stance...he will tell the elites to screw and does not bow-down to the New York Times altar or run away in fear once the usual suspects start calling him the names any GOP contender will get...I don't think there are many conservatives who see Drumpf as a conservative savior because he is not...I think many are simply tired of the phony conservatives and have nowhere else to turn at this point in the election season if their ultimate goal is keeping Hillary out of the White House...

You really think Drumpf won't do what is politically expedient and/or always opt for the most self serving choice when he hits a decision point?  His lack of "political correctness" cuts both ways and there is no way that he holds to any stance if it is in his own personal best interest to choose the opposite.

Keeping Hillary out of office is a fine goal but doing it by putting a thin skinned, self serving reactionary in her place is the definition of not thinking your position through.

 

[Chaka]

And people really should stop framing Drumpf's racist/sexist/elitist commentary as thumbing his nose at political correctness.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Oh since Hillary is cleared in the Benghazi witch hunt now we need to concentrate on the server.  Got it.  Is there a server thread in here? 

 

[bueno]

I also find it hilarious that conservatives have convinced themselves that The Donald, in any way, represents their core values.

Which conservatives are those? The Donald represents a rebellion against the status quo, nothing more.

 

[Boston]

You really think Drumpf won't do what is politically expedient and/or always opt for the most self serving choice when he hits a decision point?  His lack of "political correctness" cuts both ways and there is no way that he holds to any stance if it is in his own personal best interest to choose the opposite.

Keeping Hillary out of office is a fine goal but doing it by putting a thin skinned, self serving reactionary in her place is the definition of not thinking your position through.

I am not going to defend Trump or pretend he's something he's not...but I think there are many people who simply find Hillary as unacceptable and would not vote for her regardless of who she is running against (I readily admit I fall into this category...I think the only way I would vote for Hillary is if she was running against Lizzie Warren)...and in all honesty many of the insults I see thrown at Trump could be applied to Hillary (yes Trump may have thin-skinned...but Hillary falls into that category as well)...I don't want to get into a back and fourth on this because it will end up in a dead end...these are two awful candidates and I think anyone who doesn't think their candidate is deeply flawed is either lying to themselves or an ideologue who borders on religious zealotry... 

 

[Quez]

I also find it hilarious that conservatives have convinced themselves that The Donald, in any way, represents their core values.

I think most of the Trump supporters just like him because he isn't an establishment politician.  He is an outsider.  He is calling out corporate cronyism, the lobbyist problem, our crappy trade deals that other countries violate, shipoing of jobs overseas, our ties to crappy middle eastern countries, shady connections between governments and leading candidates charitable foundations, etc.  He funded his own campaign instead of taking bribes from large corporations.  There is a lot to like.  He is rocking the boat, whether you like him or not it's important that he is talking about these things.  Despite what the national media wants you to believe, this country has more pressing issues than LGBT rights. Thanks to Twitter & his popularity he will still be able to bring attention to crappy things like TPPA, or whatever they bring it back as that Hillary will definitely support, long after the race is over.

 

[joffer]

he's the ultimate corporate crony.  there is nothing to like.  there isn't a single redeeming quality about him.  he couldn't let a coherent thought leak from his mouth if you wrote it down for him and moved his lips with your hands.

 

[Amused to Death]

I think most of the Trump supporters just like him because he isn't an establishment politician.  He is an outsider.  He is calling out corporate cronyism, the lobbyist problem, our crappy trade deals that other countries violate, shipoing of jobs overseas, our ties to crappy middle eastern countries, shady connections between governments and leading candidates charitable foundations, etc.  He funded his own campaign instead of taking bribes from large corporations.  There is a lot to like.  He is rocking the boat, whether you like him or not it's important that he is talking about these things.  Despite what the national media wants you to believe, this country has more pressing issues than LGBT rights. Thanks to Twitter & his popularity he will still be able to bring attention to crappy things like TPPA, or whatever they bring it back as that Hillary will definitely support, long after the race is over.

None of which makes him remotely qualified to be the leader of the free world.  Economists agree that his trade wars and economic policies will be a disaster of world-wide proportions.

And if he's funding his own campaign, why is he illegally soliciting donations from foreign governments?  The evidence of him self-financing is dwindling.

 

[Quez]

None of which makes him remotely qualified to be the leader of the free world.  Economists agree that his trade wars and economic policies will be a disaster of world-wide proportions.

And if he's funding his own campaign, why is he illegally soliciting donations from foreign governments?  The evidence of him self-financing is dwindling.

You dont get it, we are sick of these recycled politicians.  Nothing changes accept for more Isis, and less jobs. 

 

[Amused to Death]

You dont get it, we are sick of these recycled politicians.  Nothing changes accept for more Isis, and less jobs. 

What I don't get is making it worse because people are fed up.  Vote for better politicians, not people who are clueless.

 

[joffer]

You dont get it, we are sick of these recycled politicians.  Nothing changes accept for more Isis, and less jobs. 

i am tired of career politicians, but i'll take one over this buffoon any day and twice on Sundays.

to quote Andrew Shephard: "He is interested in two things: making you afraid of it, and telling you who's to blame for it".

 

[Amused to Death]

You dont get it, we are sick of these recycled politicians.  Nothing changes accept for more Isis, and less jobs. 

And one other thing - if people really are fed up, they need to start paying attention (and voting) for better local government.  Vote for a better Congress - the people who really do make a difference.  What good is Trump gonna do if we still have the same do-nothing, obstructionist Congress?

 

[Chaka]

Which conservatives are those? The Donald represents a rebellion against the status quo, nothing more.

He's the conservative party's nominee, it's best to start coming to grips with that fact. That scary, insane fact.  

Which conservatives are those?  All the ones that are going to vote for him based purely upon the fact that he's not HRC, and not considering for a moment what he actually is, a thin-skinned, reactionary, petty man who consistently throws out unconscionably racist, sexist and nationalistic rhetoric.  Yay, us???

 

[matuski]

Is "Nobody" what you use to convince yourself you're not supporting a POS?

No - you aren't paying attention.  I have considered Hillary a gimme for the Republicans for years.  A bonafide POS.

Which tells you something when she wins in a landslide over this clown who was able to straight up jack the republican party and become its nominee.

You and I butt heads on political topics, but I don't think you are a fool.  You know damn well Trump himself  is wondering what the hell happened... this profitable publicity stunt got WAY away from him.

 

[timschochet]

Best post in here is one I can't find- it's when somebody posted "Benghazi! Benghazi! Benghazi!" over and over again hundreds of times, and then also had spoiler boxes and when you opened them there were even more "Benghazis!" 

 

[Max Power]

I had to withhold my thoughts publicly on this issue.  I was part of the response team.  Not a ground force guy, but I was a key player in the response TOC.  AMA, I'll reply as I can.

 

[The Commish]

 

 

[Chaka]

I had to withhold my thoughts publicly on this issue.  I was part of the response team.  Not a ground force guy, but I was a key player in the response TOC.  AMA, I'll reply as I can.

Were you interviewed by the Benghazi commission?  If not, do you have any idea why not?

 

[Max Power]

Were you interviewed by the Benghazi commission?  If not, do you have any idea why not?

I was not.  My workstation/PC was taken and all chats during the night were made available to the committee.

 

[timschochet]

Do you hold Hillary Clinton or any other high level politicians responsible for what happened? Are you upset with Hillary or any of them for their comments after the fact? 

 

[Chaka]

I was not.  My workstation/PC was taken and all chats during the night were made available to the committee.

Then presumably everything on your workstation was analyzed by the commission and taken into account prior to their final conclusions.

Seeing as how partisan the commission was, if there was anything specifically incriminating in there they would have sussed it out.

So is there anything you can add, without getting into trouble of course, that would cast any doubt on the conclusions of the multi-year, multi-million dollar partisan commission?

 

[Max Power]

Do you hold Hillary Clinton or any other high level politicians responsible for what happened? Are you upset with Hillary or any of them for their comments after the fact? 

yes and no.   We were given warning of riots before 9/11 and had an increased awareness.  We are pushed an "increased awareness" so often that at times it will fall on deft ears. Based on emails released to the public I believe that the department of state should have done a lot more for the ambassador. From my commander's interaction with the Ambassador, he was a man of the people.  He jogged ever single day alone outside of the watch of US personnel.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Ok, for anyone who wants to talk facts... so this is from a conservative blog but I did think the timeline interesting.

9/11—Public Statements

Secretary Clinton’s 10:08 p.m. Statement on the Attack in Benghazi:

“I condemn in the strongest terms the attack on our mission in Benghazi today. * * * Some have sought to justify this vicious behavior as a response to inflammatory material posted on the Internet.”

Secretary Clinton’s E-mail to daughter at 11:23 p.m.:

“Two of our officers were killed in Benghazi by an Al Quedalike [sic] group[.]”

9/12—Public Statements

Secretary Clinton’s Remarks on the Deaths of American Personnel in Benghazi, Libya morning of September 12, 2012:

“We are working to determine the precise motivations and methods of those who carried out this assault. Some have sought to justify this vicious behavior, along with the protest that took place at our Embassy in Cairo yesterday, as a response to inflammatory material posted on the internet.”

9/12—Private Statements

Summary of Discussion between Acting Assistant Secretary Beth Jones and Libyan Ambassador Aujali at 9:45 a.m.:

“I told him that the group that conducted the attacks—Ansar Al Sharia—is affiliated with Islamic extremists.”

Jacob Sullivan in e-mail to embassy in Kabul, Afghanistan:

“There was not really violence in Egypt [and] “we are not saying that the violence in Libya erupted ‘over inflammatory videos.'”

Secretary Clinton’s Statements to Egyptian Prime Minister Kandil at 3:04 p.m.:

“We know that the attack in Libya had nothing to do with the film. It was a planned attack – not a protest. . . . Based on the information we saw today we believe the group that claimed responsibility for this was affiliated with al Qaeda.”

Under Secretary Patrick Kennedy to congressional staff briefing:

When asked whether “this [was] an attack under the cover of a protest” Kennedy said, “No the attack was a direct breaching attack.” More to the point, he was then asked whether “we believe [this was] coordinated with [the] Cairo [protests] to which Kennedy responded, “Attack in Cairo was a demonstration. There were no weapons shown or used. A few cans of spray paint.”

9/13—Public Statements

Secretary Clinton’s Morocco Remarks:

“I also want to take a moment to address the video circulating on the Internet that has led to these protests in a number of countries. * * *

To us, to me personally, this video is disgusting and reprehensible. It appears to have a deeply cynical purpose: to denigrate a great religion and to provoke rage. But as I said yesterday, there is no justification, none at all, for responding to this video with violence. * * *

Violence, we believe, has no place in religion and is no way to honor religion. Islam, like other religions, respects the fundamental dignity of human beings, and it is a violation of that fundamental dignity to wage attacks on innocents. As long as there are those who are willing to shed blood and take innocent life in the name of God, the world will never know a true and lasting peace. It is especially wrong for violence to be directed against diplomatic missions. . . .

I've been pretty ok with Hillary on this. IMO she was between a rock and a hard place, along with the rest of the administration. A lot of people were just doing what they were told and they did not want to pull the rug out from the administration. I think Ben Rhodes sending Rice out front put everyone in a tough position, they were on the permanent defensive. So even as the inward face of the administration was doing the right thing, responding militarily, the outward looking face of the administration made some bad decisions based - not on intelligence or military reporting - but on the internet and tv news. To a good extent I think this was confirmation bias. They believed in this kind of soft power over hard power, it conformed with their predisposed view of the mideast and the mistakes of the administration which had come before it which they were so determined to prove wrong.

I give president Obama & Panetta credit for responding - he ordered 2 military personnel to leave Tripoli with friendly militia - who were pro-Khadaffi btw, whom of course we had deposed, which had helped propel all this greatly - so he did provide a military response to a military problem.

I guess I'd like to see an end to the 'fog of war' bs as to what is known now. Then, ok. No one responsible believes now, at this point, that there was any protest. That is sheer tin foil hat stuff.

Unfortunately I think the GOP pounced - unfairly, politically - and they badly overswung (the conspiracy claim, the claim they did not respond), and the administration - reflexively, wrongly - reacted to defend their prior unfounded, and incorrect statements about the source of the attack. I've looked at this quite a bit I guess and I have never seen any kind of "conspiracy" or political plot to twist the information. It was in short one major huge screwup and failure. And I do not have much faith that it will be repaired in future administrations. I also think the GOP's response to all this showed a disrespect in its own way which made people so uncontrollably angry on the left and right that any kind of normal discussion has always been impossible. This thread certainly proves that.

I think maybe the most disturbing thing to come out of this was the role of Ben Rhodes, and what kind of manipulative person he has himself revealed himself to be, and the fact that we have what is essentially a political officer acting as a conduit between the intelligence agencies and the president of the United States and then also, again, between the administration and the press and then through them the people. I don't think that is an Obama only problem. That was a problem with Bush, it was a problem with Obama, and I expect or fear it will be a problem with Hillary, as she will likely appoint a long time political operative, Jake Sullivan, to a similar position as NSA Advisor. So we can expect more of the same down the road at some point.

 

[Max Power]

Then presumably everything on your workstation was analyzed by the commission and taken into account prior to their final conclusions.

Seeing as how partisan the commission was, if there was anything specifically incriminating in there they would have sussed it out.

So is there anything you can add, without getting into trouble of course, that would cast any doubt on the conclusions of the multi-year, multi-million dollar partisan commission?

The night of was a madhouse.  The Drones are DOD platforms that respond to America's military needs. We had no idea where the CIA "safehouse" was upon arrival to station. This caused a lot of confusion on where to focus the sensor. 

The movie 13 hours gets it right in that we were 45 minutes late to the party.  The drone was flying over Darhna at the time the attack happened. The predator feed of the video is a lot of "too little too late" due to the communication gap.  

We did think the youtube video caused the attack for the first 24 hours. 

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Do you hold Hillary Clinton or any other high level politicians responsible for what happened? Are you upset with Hillary or any of them for their comments after the fact? 

No.

I think the one thing I would be upset with Hillary on is the development of the Libyan policy in the first place and the fact that she apparently personally swayed Pres. Obama to get militarily involved there. I think it's part and parcel of some really disturbing poor decision making in the mideast from 1990-2016.

Pres. Obama himself called it a sh|tshow.

That, yeah, I think coudl be laid at Hillary's feet and frankly it reminds me of her vote for war with Iraq.

 

[Max Power]

Do you hold Hillary Clinton or any other high level politicians responsible for what happened? Are you upset with Hillary or any of them for their comments after the fact? 

we found out the ambassador was killed through facebook. I am anit-Hillary, but that is for other reasons. 

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I said this two years ago, and I'll say it again, but this thread should be closed and shot into space. Thx