U.S. Ambassador to Libya Killed in Rocket Attack (4 Viewers)

[BigSteelThrill]

bill, you are failing to grasp the nuance of the situation.Obama wanted MORE security.The House republicans and democrats voted to lessen it.The House republicans now want to complain/vilify Obama on a lack of that security.

No, he wanted more money. Spending more money < > getting better results.

Heck, they should just cut it down to ZERO then... with that kind of thinking.

 

[jonessed]

bill, you are failing to grasp the nuance of the situation.Obama wanted MORE security.The House republicans and democrats voted to lessen it.The House republicans now want to complain/vilify Obama on a lack of that security.

No, he wanted more money. Spending more money < > getting better results.

Don't feed the troll.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

bill, you are failing to grasp the nuance of the situation.Obama wanted MORE security.The House republicans and democrats voted to lessen it.The House republicans now want to complain/vilify Obama on a lack of that security.

No, he wanted more money. Spending more money < > getting better results.

Don't feed the troll.

Quit acting like lowering the resources wont negatively affect the results.Even the republican (in above link) stated that was the risk they were willing to take.

 

[pittstownkiller]

bill, you are failing to grasp the nuance of the situation.Obama wanted MORE security.The House republicans and democrats voted to lessen it.The House republicans now want to complain/vilify Obama on a lack of that security.

BST, I do not think that your line of defense erases the rightful criticism of the State Department; when it all boils down to it the Diplomats should not be there if they were not safe. Somebody needs to stand up and own this problem. the Administration and State's constant deflection of this topic is going to be a unbearable weight around their neck.

 

[Hang 10]

bill, you are failing to grasp the nuance of the situation.Obama wanted MORE security.The House republicans and democrats voted to lessen it.The House republicans now want to complain/vilify Obama on a lack of that security.

BST, I do not think that your line of defense erases the rightful criticism of the State Department; when it all boils down to it the Diplomats should not be there if they were not safe. Somebody needs to stand up and own this problem. the Administration and State's constant deflection of this topic is going to be a unbearable weight around their neck.

 

[jonessed]

According to the The State Department's former regional security officer in Libya the reduction of forces and the refusal to address requests for more security were "blocked by a department policy to normalize operations and reduce security resources."

So according to the regional security officer at the time the lack of support was due to department policy in an effort to "normalize" operations at the consulate. Does anybody that supports the idea that the refulsals were due to a lack of funding want to chime in with another source?

 

[BigSteelThrill]

According to the The State Department's former regional security officer in Libya the reduction of forces and the refusal to address requests for more security were "blocked by a department policy to normalize operations and reduce security resources."So according to the regional security officer the lack of support was due to department policy in an effort to "normalize" operations at he consolate and not funding.

That was in Tripoli, not even Benghazi. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/10/10/diplomatic-security-in-libya-weak-former-military-team-chief-says/

 

[Hang 10]

According to the The State Department's former regional security officer in Libya the reduction of forces and the refusal to address requests for more security were "blocked by a department policy to normalize operations and reduce security resources."

So according to the regional security officer the lack of support was due to department policy in an effort to "normalize" operations at he consolate and not funding.

"In those conversations, I was specifically told [by Lamb] ‘You cannot request an SST extension.' I determined I was told that because there would be too much political cost. We went ahead and requested it anyway," Nordstrom said.http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/10/10/lamb_to_the_slaughter

So, it's again, it's not monetary cost...it's a political cost.

 

[jonessed]

According to the The State Department's former regional security officer in Libya the reduction of forces and the refusal to address requests for more security were "blocked by a department policy to normalize operations and reduce security resources."So according to the regional security officer the lack of support was due to department policy in an effort to "normalize" operations at he consolate and not funding.

That was in Tripoli, not even Benghazi. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/10/10/diplomatic-security-in-libya-weak-former-military-team-chief-says/

The quote was from Nordstrom and he was in charge of both.

 

[Thunderlips]

So moneys cut by the Republicans...and Americans died because of it?...... I guess there is a human price to the budget cuts. Way to go Republicans.

 

[pittstownkiller]

So moneys cut by the Republicans...and Americans died because of it?...... I guess there is a human price to the budget cuts. Way to go Republicans.

Keep fiddling, Nero.

 

[FootballDummy]

bill, you are failing to grasp the nuance of the situation.

Obama wanted MORE security.

The House republicans and democrats voted to lessen it.

The House republicans now want to complain/vilify Obama on a lack of that security.

BST, I do not think that your line of defense erases the rightful criticism of the State Department; when it all boils down to it the Diplomats should not be there if they were not safe. Somebody needs to stand up and own this problem. the Administration and State's constant deflection of this topic is going to be a unbearable weight around their neck.

Only if you keep bumping this thread over and over again. Don't let us down.

 

[Widbil83]

So moneys cut by the Republicans...and Americans died because of it?...... I guess there is a human price to the budget cuts. Way to go Republicans.

Good thing this was cleared up by Obama's State Department Rep today during the hearing-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LRKGOrRkT4

State Dept's Charlene Lamb, asked if budget cuts had anything to do with security decisions, said "No, sir."

 

[pittstownkiller]

bill, you are failing to grasp the nuance of the situation.

Obama wanted MORE security.

The House republicans and democrats voted to lessen it.

The House republicans now want to complain/vilify Obama on a lack of that security.

BST, I do not think that your line of defense erases the rightful criticism of the State Department; when it all boils down to it the Diplomats should not be there if they were not safe. Somebody needs to stand up and own this problem. the Administration and State's constant deflection of this topic is going to be a unbearable weight around their neck.

Only if you keep bumping this thread over and over again. Don't let us down.

They are having hearings at Capitol Hill, with people testifying who are described as "whistleblowers"; I think tht qualifies it as current topic. Do you really think it lives on here because I bump it? The Administration pitiful handling of the aftermath of this event, was why I was here; their apparent incompetence and political gerrymandering is what is keepin me here.

 

[Max Power]

So moneys cut by the Republicans...and Americans died because of it?...... I guess there is a human price to the budget cuts. Way to go Republicans.

Good thing this was cleared up by Obama's State Department Rep today during the hearing-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LRKGOrRkT4

State Dept's Charlene Lamb, asked if budget cuts had anything to do with security decisions, said "No, sir."

Is there an extended clip somewhere? She obviously had more to say to say than "no, sir".If lack of security wasn't a budget thing, I think it almost has to be viewed as a total failure by the State Department. Romney would be smart to play that up.

 

[BoneYardDog]

obama and his administration should be absolutely held responsible for their lack of action and coverup off this murder of our Ambassador and security detail...

CSPAN

It is a long clip, if you can watch it all but you might want to start about 2:15 into the clip, move around to different places and watch it all unfold in front of you...

Absolutely shameful, heads should roll...

Kennedy, Lamb, Rice, Clinton and all in between should be held responsible for this coverup...

 

[Max Power]

I still don't understand all this coverup talk. The initial reporting was wrong and since it took a couple days for the actual information to be released, that makes it a coverup?

 

[BoneYardDog]

I still don't understand all this coverup talk. The initial reporting was wrong and since it took a couple days for the actual information to be released, that makes it a coverup?

Did you watch any of the link provided, the people that had been there knew IMMEDIATELY that is was a terrorist attack...Might want to try taking 15 or 20 minutes of your time and listen to the experts on the subject, absolute coverup and CYA...

 

[Novice2]

Youse guys are getting off the reservation here. Blame needs to be back on who it belongs ASAP!

 

[Max Power]

I still don't understand all this coverup talk. The initial reporting was wrong and since it took a couple days for the actual information to be released, that makes it a coverup?

Did you watch any of the link provided, the people that had been there knew IMMEDIATELY that is was a terrorist attack...Might want to try taking 15 or 20 minutes of your time and listen to the experts on the subject, absolute coverup and CYA...

Yes and those people were getting moved out of country for the next 48 hours and getting medical attention. Not debriefing the Dept of State. The Dept of State called it a terrorist attack within 48 hours.

 

[datonn]

My gosh...I swear I'm embarrassed to be an American sometimes (particularly since 9/11).

My last.fm player was a bit spotty this afternoon, and kept having little hiccups while playing my music. Obviously, that's because Barack HUSSEIN Obama is POTUS.

My oldest daughter lied to my wife tonight, and was kind of mean to her little sister. Obviously, she must have learned that behavior in school...due to all that "evolution" and "sex ed" she's being taught by liberals with a liberal agenda. Well okay, she won't have sex ed for another two years...but still! I'm sure her current teachers are talking about it. Thanks to? You guessed it...Barack HUSSEIN Obama!

My "personal plumbing" hasn't been working quite right for the past several days. Maybe it's all the Mexican food I've been eating (since our POTUS has refused to get tough on immigration)? Or maybe it's all those fruits and vegetables I've been eating, since our First Lady-in-Chief has been forcing my kids to eat more fruits and vegetables at school...which must be some type of voodoo that is resulting in us eating more fruits and vegetables before/after they go to school and on the weekends. And she wouldn't be First Lady if not for? You guessed it...Barack HUSSEIN Obama!

Do people even realize how embarrassing they are? I mean, is some of the mean streak and cynicism due to people feeling like absolute mindless tools? Then trying to bring others down into the depths of hell with them? Or is it just ignorance? Or being a lemming that will walk wherever Rush, Papa Bear, and Hannity are playing their flute?

The Republican platform has a LOT of good ideas! But my goodness, I don't know how any moderate/independent can stand the smell (myself included), much less cast a vote in the Party's favor.

 

[BoneYardDog]

I still don't understand all this coverup talk. The initial reporting was wrong and since it took a couple days for the actual information to be released, that makes it a coverup?

Did you watch any of the link provided, the people that had been there knew IMMEDIATELY that is was a terrorist attack...Might want to try taking 15 or 20 minutes of your time and listen to the experts on the subject, absolute coverup and CYA...

Yes and those people were getting moved out of country for the next 48 hours and getting medical attention. Not debriefing the Dept of State. The Dept of State called it a terrorist attack within 48 hours.

4 days later Rice said it was the movie, 6 days later Clinton said it was the movie, Carney said it was the movie they all LIED...It is all BS, listen to Nordstrom and Wood... Kennedy, Lamb, Rice, Clinton should all resign...

 

[BoneYardDog]

My gosh...I swear I'm embarrassed to be an American sometimes (particularly since 9/11).My last.fm player was a bit spotty this afternnon, and kept having little hiccups while playing my music. Obviously, that's because Barack HUSSEIN Obama is POTUS.My oldest daughter lied to my wife tonight, and was kind of mean to her little sister. Obviously, she must have learned that behavior in school...due to all that "evolution" and "sex ed" she's being taught by liberals with a liberal agenda. Well okay, she won't have sex ed for another two years...but still! I'm sure her current teachers are talking about it. Thanks to? You guessed it...Barack HUSSEIN Obama!My "personal plumbing" hasn't been working quite right for the past several days. Maybe it's all the Mexican food I've been eating (since our POTUS has refused to get tough on immigration)? Or maybe it's all those fruits and vegetables I've been eating, since our First Lady-in-Chief has been forcing my kids to eat more fruits and vegetables at school...which must be some type of voodoo that is resulting in us eating more fruits and vegetables before/after they go to school and on the weekends. And she wouldn't be First Lady if not for? You guessed it...Barack HUSSEIN Obama!Do people even realize how embarrassing they are? I mean, is some of the mean streak and cynicism due to people feeling like absolute mindless tools? Then trying to bring others down into the depths of hell with them? Or is it just ignorance? Or being a lemming that will walk wherever Rush, Papa Bear, and Hannity are playing their flute? The Republican platform has a LOT of good ideas! But my goodness, I don't know how any moderate/independent can stand the smell (myself included), much less cast a vote in the Party's favor.

Watch the CSPAN link and quit being so ignorant...

 

[BoneYardDog]

I guess you don't know the difference between a congressional hearing with experts and Sesame Street...

My bad...

You should be embarrassed, everyone in America should be embarrassed and outraged by these morons you call leaders...

 

[datonn]

My gosh...I swear I'm embarrassed to be an American sometimes (particularly since 9/11).My last.fm player was a bit spotty this afternnon, and kept having little hiccups while playing my music. Obviously, that's because Barack HUSSEIN Obama is POTUS.My oldest daughter lied to my wife tonight, and was kind of mean to her little sister. Obviously, she must have learned that behavior in school...due to all that "evolution" and "sex ed" she's being taught by liberals with a liberal agenda. Well okay, she won't have sex ed for another two years...but still! I'm sure her current teachers are talking about it. Thanks to? You guessed it...Barack HUSSEIN Obama!My "personal plumbing" hasn't been working quite right for the past several days. Maybe it's all the Mexican food I've been eating (since our POTUS has refused to get tough on immigration)? Or maybe it's all those fruits and vegetables I've been eating, since our First Lady-in-Chief has been forcing my kids to eat more fruits and vegetables at school...which must be some type of voodoo that is resulting in us eating more fruits and vegetables before/after they go to school and on the weekends. And she wouldn't be First Lady if not for? You guessed it...Barack HUSSEIN Obama!Do people even realize how embarrassing they are? I mean, is some of the mean streak and cynicism due to people feeling like absolute mindless tools? Then trying to bring others down into the depths of hell with them? Or is it just ignorance? Or being a lemming that will walk wherever Rush, Papa Bear, and Hannity are playing their flute? The Republican platform has a LOT of good ideas! But my goodness, I don't know how any moderate/independent can stand the smell (myself included), much less cast a vote in the Party's favor.

Watch the CSPAN link and quit being so ignorant...

Why do I need to re-watch the hearing...when I watched it live earlier this morning?

 

[BoneYardDog]

My gosh...I swear I'm embarrassed to be an American sometimes (particularly since 9/11).My last.fm player was a bit spotty this afternnon, and kept having little hiccups while playing my music. Obviously, that's because Barack HUSSEIN Obama is POTUS.My oldest daughter lied to my wife tonight, and was kind of mean to her little sister. Obviously, she must have learned that behavior in school...due to all that "evolution" and "sex ed" she's being taught by liberals with a liberal agenda. Well okay, she won't have sex ed for another two years...but still! I'm sure her current teachers are talking about it. Thanks to? You guessed it...Barack HUSSEIN Obama!My "personal plumbing" hasn't been working quite right for the past several days. Maybe it's all the Mexican food I've been eating (since our POTUS has refused to get tough on immigration)? Or maybe it's all those fruits and vegetables I've been eating, since our First Lady-in-Chief has been forcing my kids to eat more fruits and vegetables at school...which must be some type of voodoo that is resulting in us eating more fruits and vegetables before/after they go to school and on the weekends. And she wouldn't be First Lady if not for? You guessed it...Barack HUSSEIN Obama!Do people even realize how embarrassing they are? I mean, is some of the mean streak and cynicism due to people feeling like absolute mindless tools? Then trying to bring others down into the depths of hell with them? Or is it just ignorance? Or being a lemming that will walk wherever Rush, Papa Bear, and Hannity are playing their flute? The Republican platform has a LOT of good ideas! But my goodness, I don't know how any moderate/independent can stand the smell (myself included), much less cast a vote in the Party's favor.

Watch the CSPAN link and quit being so ignorant...

Why do I need to re-watch the hearing...when I watched it live earlier this morning?

Well you are either a liar or ignorant...Go watch Big Bird while you still can...

 

[datonn]

My gosh...I swear I'm embarrassed to be an American sometimes (particularly since 9/11).My last.fm player was a bit spotty this afternnon, and kept having little hiccups while playing my music. Obviously, that's because Barack HUSSEIN Obama is POTUS.My oldest daughter lied to my wife tonight, and was kind of mean to her little sister. Obviously, she must have learned that behavior in school...due to all that "evolution" and "sex ed" she's being taught by liberals with a liberal agenda. Well okay, she won't have sex ed for another two years...but still! I'm sure her current teachers are talking about it. Thanks to? You guessed it...Barack HUSSEIN Obama!My "personal plumbing" hasn't been working quite right for the past several days. Maybe it's all the Mexican food I've been eating (since our POTUS has refused to get tough on immigration)? Or maybe it's all those fruits and vegetables I've been eating, since our First Lady-in-Chief has been forcing my kids to eat more fruits and vegetables at school...which must be some type of voodoo that is resulting in us eating more fruits and vegetables before/after they go to school and on the weekends. And she wouldn't be First Lady if not for? You guessed it...Barack HUSSEIN Obama!Do people even realize how embarrassing they are? I mean, is some of the mean streak and cynicism due to people feeling like absolute mindless tools? Then trying to bring others down into the depths of hell with them? Or is it just ignorance? Or being a lemming that will walk wherever Rush, Papa Bear, and Hannity are playing their flute? The Republican platform has a LOT of good ideas! But my goodness, I don't know how any moderate/independent can stand the smell (myself included), much less cast a vote in the Party's favor.

Watch the CSPAN link and quit being so ignorant...

Why do I need to re-watch the hearing...when I watched it live earlier this morning?

Well you are either a liar or ignorant...Go watch Big Bird while you still can...

I'll play along. WHY am I either a liar or ignorant? Specifically. No drive-by postings either. Use everything you've got at your disposal to put my in my place.

 

[pittstownkiller]

My gosh...I swear I'm embarrassed to be an American sometimes (particularly since 9/11).

My last.fm player was a bit spotty this afternnon, and kept having little hiccups while playing my music. Obviously, that's because Barack HUSSEIN Obama is POTUS.

My oldest daughter lied to my wife tonight, and was kind of mean to her little sister. Obviously, she must have learned that behavior in school...due to all that "evolution" and "sex ed" she's being taught by liberals with a liberal agenda. Well okay, she won't have sex ed for another two years...but still! I'm sure her current teachers are talking about it. Thanks to? You guessed it...Barack HUSSEIN Obama!

My "personal plumbing" hasn't been working quite right for the past several days. Maybe it's all the Mexican food I've been eating (since our POTUS has refused to get tough on immigration)? Or maybe it's all those fruits and vegetables I've been eating, since our First Lady-in-Chief has been forcing my kids to eat more fruits and vegetables at school...which must be some type of voodoo that is resulting in us eating more fruits and vegetables before/after they go to school and on the weekends. And she wouldn't be First Lady if not for? You guessed it...Barack HUSSEIN Obama!

Do people even realize how embarrassing they are? I mean, is some of the mean streak and cynicism due to people feeling like absolute mindless tools? Then trying to bring others down into the depths of hell with them? Or is it just ignorance? Or being a lemming that will walk wherever Rush, Papa Bear, and Hannity are playing their flute?

The Republican platform has a LOT of good ideas! But my goodness, I don't know how any moderate/independent can stand the smell (myself included), much less cast a vote in the Party's favor.

Watch the CSPAN link and quit being so ignorant...

Why do I need to re-watch the hearing...when I watched it live earlier this morning?

Well you are either a liar or ignorant...Go watch Big Bird while you still can...

I'll play along. WHY am I either a liar or ignorant? Specifically. No drive-by postings either. Use everything you've got at your disposal to put my in my place.

I'll play along with you Datonn. I love your attitude that it is a bunch of right-wing zealots unfairly attaching and attacking the President, over this matter, when it really isn't his job. I think most people (obviously not you) hold the President responsible just for his own behavior; such as calling this a spontaneous uprising and wrapping himself up in the flag shamelessly, at the service for the four fallen men of our Embassy in Libya. If there is a coverup the President us either complicit or incompetent. If State's opinion was that this was a terrorist attack and knew this within 48 hours (they knew before that, BTW), why the "video" line being fed to the public by the President himself? Why the big charade of arresting this film-maker? If you care about the four men who were killed, and you should, then you should be concerned with the questions of "who knew what and when?" and less about making excuses for the President.

 

[FootballDummy]

My gosh...I swear I'm embarrassed to be an American sometimes (particularly since 9/11).

My last.fm player was a bit spotty this afternnon, and kept having little hiccups while playing my music. Obviously, that's because Barack HUSSEIN Obama is POTUS.

My oldest daughter lied to my wife tonight, and was kind of mean to her little sister. Obviously, she must have learned that behavior in school...due to all that "evolution" and "sex ed" she's being taught by liberals with a liberal agenda. Well okay, she won't have sex ed for another two years...but still! I'm sure her current teachers are talking about it. Thanks to? You guessed it...Barack HUSSEIN Obama!

My "personal plumbing" hasn't been working quite right for the past several days. Maybe it's all the Mexican food I've been eating (since our POTUS has refused to get tough on immigration)? Or maybe it's all those fruits and vegetables I've been eating, since our First Lady-in-Chief has been forcing my kids to eat more fruits and vegetables at school...which must be some type of voodoo that is resulting in us eating more fruits and vegetables before/after they go to school and on the weekends. And she wouldn't be First Lady if not for? You guessed it...Barack HUSSEIN Obama!

Do people even realize how embarrassing they are? I mean, is some of the mean streak and cynicism due to people feeling like absolute mindless tools? Then trying to bring others down into the depths of hell with them? Or is it just ignorance? Or being a lemming that will walk wherever Rush, Papa Bear, and Hannity are playing their flute?

The Republican platform has a LOT of good ideas! But my goodness, I don't know how any moderate/independent can stand the smell (myself included), much less cast a vote in the Party's favor.

Watch the CSPAN link and quit being so ignorant...

Why do I need to re-watch the hearing...when I watched it live earlier this morning?

Well you are either a liar or ignorant...Go watch Big Bird while you still can...

I'll play along. WHY am I either a liar or ignorant? Specifically. No drive-by postings either. Use everything you've got at your disposal to put my in my place.

I'll play along with you Datonn. I love you attitude that it is a bunch of right-wing zealots unfairly attaching and attacking the President, over this matter, when it really isn't his job. I think most people (obviously not you) hold the President responsible just for his own behavior; such as calling this a spontaneous uprising and wrapping himself up in the flag shamelessly, at the service for the four fallen men of our Embassy in Libya. If there is a coverup the President us either complicit or incompetent. If State's opinion was that this was a terrorist attack and knew this within 48 hours (they knew before that, BTW), why the "video" line being fed to the public by the President himself? Why the big charade of arresting this film-maker? If you care about the four men who were killed, and you should as, then you should be concerned with the questions of "who knew what and when?" and less about making excuses for the President.

There you go. Good job.

 

[Hang 10]

I still don't understand all this coverup talk. The initial reporting was wrong and since it took a couple days for the actual information to be released, that makes it a coverup?

Initial reporting? The Libyan government knew it was a planned terrorist attack within 24 hours. The US state department was apparently following the attack in real time. So how did a bogus video/riot story come out of Rice, Carney, Clinton & Obama's mouths almost a full week after the attack? What do you want to call that? It's either gross incompetence or a cover-up. Personally, I don't buy that it was just bad intel, since there's no basis in reality for the video story.

 

[moleculo]

it's not really a cover-up, but it's not really truthful either. It's plausible that the "movie" meme was not played out for a week for our benefit, moreso that narrative was possibly aimed at placating the rest of the Middle East. Lybia wasn't the only place that was sparking up.

However, I can't say I care for that - when American officials are killed on American soil, the appropriate response is never to apologize for our Constitutionally guaranteed freedom of speech, I don't really care what the Middle East thinks.

 

[Hang 10]

it's not really a cover-up, but it's not really truthful either. It's plausible that the "movie" meme was not played out for a week for our benefit, moreso that narrative was possibly aimed at placating the rest of the Middle East. Lybia wasn't the only place that was sparking up.

However, I can't say I care for that - when American officials are killed on American soil, the appropriate response is never to apologize for our Constitutionally guaranteed freedom of speech, I don't really care what the Middle East thinks.

 

[Hang 10]

In hearing, the Libya scandal boils over

By Jennifer Rubin

It was an extraordinary day in the telling of the Libya terrorist attack. We had the scene at the White House in which Jay Carney denied he had insisted on Sept. 14 that the attack was linked to an anti-Muslim video. He was apparently making stuff up on that day, and the denial today only makes the appearance of widespread dissembling more vivid. ABC’s Jake Tapper asked the question Right Turn has been puzzling over for weeks now: Did the president shoot first and aim later?

Meanwhile the House Oversight Committee, chaired by Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.), grilled State Department and intelligence officials (although not Secretary of State Hillary Clinton or Ambassador to the United Nations Susan Rice) on the attack and the campaign in the administration to characterize it as the fall-out from an anti-Muslim video. It was not an impressive showing for the administration. CNN reports:

Speaking before the Republican-controlled House Oversight Committee, Under Secretary of State for Management Patrick Kennedy responded to insinuations that the State Department was responsible for a lack of preparedness ahead of the Benghazi consulate attack.

“We regularly assess risk and resource allocation, a process involving the considered judgments of experienced professionals on the ground and in Washington, using the best available information,” Kennedy said.

The assault on the U.S. compound was “an unprecedented attack by dozens of heavily armed men,” Kennedy said.

His colleague, Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for International Programs Charlene Lamb, added that the state department “had the correct number of assets in Benghazi at the time,” drawing a sharp rebuke from committee chairman Rep. Darrell Issa, R-California.

“To start off by saying you had the correct number, and our ambassador and three other individuals are dead, and people are in the hospital recovering because it only took moments to breach that facility somehow doesn’t seem to ring true to the American people,” Issa said.

The Romney campaign responded to the day’s events with a somewhat restrained statement from its policy director Lanhee Chen: “With each passing day, we learn more about the ways in which the Obama Administration misled the American people about the tragic events that transpired in the terrorist attack on our consulate in Benghazi, Libya on September 11, 2012. Nearly a month later, the Obama Administration continues to offer incomplete and indirect responses to simple and straightforward questions. It is up to President Obama and his Administration to ensure that congressional investigators and the American people have a full accounting of the facts not just from that day, but from the days and months leading up to the attack. There are many questions about whether or not the Administration properly heeded warnings, provided adequate security, or told the American people the whole truth in the aftermath of the attack. On an issue of this importance, nothing short of full and complete candor is acceptable. We can’t learn from our mistakes if we don’t undertake an honest, transparent effort to assess them.”

There was plenty of drama druing the day with Republican committee members demanding to know why the administration had not told the truth, namely this was a terrorist, planned attack. What was clear is that Libyan-based State Department officials requested more security, which was denied by State Department official. Charlene Lamb, who was the responsible official, was pummeled at the hearing.

But, as Josh Rogin detailed, the most explosive moments came when State Department officials were grilled as to why blame was placed on the anti-Muslim film:

[secretary of State for Management Patrick] Kennedy and Lamb were also pressed several times to explain why senior officials including U.N. Ambassador Susan Rice made statements in the days after the attack describing it as a reaction to an anti-Islam video, considering that the State Department was monitoring the events that night in real time.

Kennedy suggested that another government agency was to blame.

“There were reports that we received that there were protests, and I would not go any further than that,” Kennedy said, citing a reluctance to go into detail in open session. Other officials, including Rice, have said that they based their comments on the intelligence community’s initial, albeit caveated, assessment.

But Wood testified that there was no way anyone who was following the events in real time could conclude the attacks were anything but a terrorist attack.

“It was instantly recognizable as a terrorist attack. We almost expected the attack to come. It was a matter of time,” [Lt. Colonel Andrew]Wood said. “[Al Qaeda’s] presence grows there every day. They are certainly more established there than we are.”

At times, Wood appeared to be the only competent and honest witness there, confessing Al Qaeda is growing in Libya and is more established than the U.S. So much for the chest-thumping about our ”success” in “leading from behind” in the Libyan civil war. And finally, the Democratic talking point that the embassy attack was brought about by funding cuts championed by Republicans was entirely undone when Lamb said it had nothing to do with funding.

This is a mess on multiple levels. The Obama administration failed to protect our people. They have failed to assess the growing threat of Al Qaeda. And the president and his advisers have been hiding the ball from voters to save their own political skins. All in all it’s a shabby performance. People should be fired, but perhaps the voters will take care of that.

So where is the president? He’s not come forward to explain any of this, although his vice president will be on the hot seat at the debate tomorrow night. After all, Jay Carney's dissembling, Susan Rice’s misleading TV appearances, and the president’s own assertions, including his Setpember 25 speech to the UN (“a crude and disgusting video sparked outrage throughout the Muslim world”) have left an evidence trail a mile wide.

Whether incompetent or dishonest or a combination of the two, Obama needs to face the American people and be held accountable. And the media, both reporters and pundits, who have tried studiously to downplay or ignore a scandal that in a GOP administration would be compared to Watergate, have their chance to show they are more than apologists for a president whose stature is shrinking by the minute.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/post/in-hearing-the-libya-scandal-boils-over/2012/10/10/f0cb48e4-1315-11e2-ba83-a7a396e6b2a7_blog.html

 

[jamny]

So which is it, incompetence or deception?

At least my question about why they were being so silent is being answered. They really did hope this would all blow over. Too close to the election. I'm glad other people in the government wouldn't let the story die with the four people in Libya.

 

[moleculo]

So which is it, incompetence or deception?At least my question about why they were being so silent is being answered. They really did hope this would all blow over. Too close to the election. I'm glad other people in the government wouldn't let the story die with the four people in Libya.

I think it's both.the inadequate level of security is incompetence. The purposeful mis-characterization is deception. Neither is good.This whole thing stinks. I'm not pleased with any of this..at all. Thoroughly disgusted. As I posted previously, I don't really care if the security level at embassies is a White House level item; it is an item managed by someone in the State Department, which falls under the Executive Branch. The Obama Administration is responsible for this whole fiasco, there is no getting around that. IMO, this whole story should absolutely ruin any foreign relations credibility that Obama has with the voters. If this story gets the proper amount of play, it should be devastating.

 

[moleculo]

what has the US response been so far? Anything beyond a stern reprimand and finger-wagging?

What would you like it to be? I'd like for O or Hilary to say, "We're sorry that the abuses that sometimes occur in a free society with freedom of expression have offended the religious sensibilities of so many. I hope we can see our way past these differences, unalterable ones in our case."

I don't know. US consulates are considered American soil, and representatives of the US government, acting on official duty, were killed. these are overt acts of war. I don't know what the proper thing to do is, but I know that I want a military response.

By whom? Generally it's a good idea to have a justifiable target for a military action.

story linked earlier

One of the groups to emerge in post-revolution Libya, Ansar al-Sharia, claimed responsibility Wednesday for the attack in Benghazi, which has been condemned by the country's new government.

certainly, we know something about these guys, no?

I don't think you have to worry about there not being an effort to find and deal with the people responsible.

ok, it's been almost a month. Has there been anything done to find and deal with the people responsible? Where are we with this?

 

[jamny]

what has the US response been so far? Anything beyond a stern reprimand and finger-wagging?

What would you like it to be? I'd like for O or Hilary to say, "We're sorry that the abuses that sometimes occur in a free society with freedom of expression have offended the religious sensibilities of so many. I hope we can see our way past these differences, unalterable ones in our case."

I don't know. US consulates are considered American soil, and representatives of the US government, acting on official duty, were killed. these are overt acts of war. I don't know what the proper thing to do is, but I know that I want a military response.

By whom? Generally it's a good idea to have a justifiable target for a military action.

story linked earlier

One of the groups to emerge in post-revolution Libya, Ansar al-Sharia, claimed responsibility Wednesday for the attack in Benghazi, which has been condemned by the country's new government.

certainly, we know something about these guys, no?

I don't think you have to worry about there not being an effort to find and deal with the people responsible.

ok, it's been almost a month. Has there been anything done to find and deal with the people responsible? Where are we with this?

wait for it, wait for it....what should Obama do?

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Jason Chaffetz (R-UT) in the hearings changing out front to blame the Obama Administration, when it was he along with his fellow republicans who voted to cut funding for Embassy Security.

Link

 

[Hang 10]

Jason Chaffetz (R-UT) in the hearings changing out front to blame the Obama Administration, when it was he along with his fellow republicans who voted to cut funding for Embassy Security.

Link

Lamb and Kennedy did not use funding as a defense for lack of security for the ambassador.

 

[jamny]

 

[Ghost Rider]

It was a cover-up. but since it didn't happened here in the United States, most don't care. Which is sad.

 

[datonn]

My gosh...I swear I'm embarrassed to be an American sometimes (particularly since 9/11).

My last.fm player was a bit spotty this afternnon, and kept having little hiccups while playing my music. Obviously, that's because Barack HUSSEIN Obama is POTUS.

My oldest daughter lied to my wife tonight, and was kind of mean to her little sister. Obviously, she must have learned that behavior in school...due to all that "evolution" and "sex ed" she's being taught by liberals with a liberal agenda. Well okay, she won't have sex ed for another two years...but still! I'm sure her current teachers are talking about it. Thanks to? You guessed it...Barack HUSSEIN Obama!

My "personal plumbing" hasn't been working quite right for the past several days. Maybe it's all the Mexican food I've been eating (since our POTUS has refused to get tough on immigration)? Or maybe it's all those fruits and vegetables I've been eating, since our First Lady-in-Chief has been forcing my kids to eat more fruits and vegetables at school...which must be some type of voodoo that is resulting in us eating more fruits and vegetables before/after they go to school and on the weekends. And she wouldn't be First Lady if not for? You guessed it...Barack HUSSEIN Obama!

Do people even realize how embarrassing they are? I mean, is some of the mean streak and cynicism due to people feeling like absolute mindless tools? Then trying to bring others down into the depths of hell with them? Or is it just ignorance? Or being a lemming that will walk wherever Rush, Papa Bear, and Hannity are playing their flute?

The Republican platform has a LOT of good ideas! But my goodness, I don't know how any moderate/independent can stand the smell (myself included), much less cast a vote in the Party's favor.

Watch the CSPAN link and quit being so ignorant...

Why do I need to re-watch the hearing...when I watched it live earlier this morning?

Well you are either a liar or ignorant...Go watch Big Bird while you still can...

I'll play along. WHY am I either a liar or ignorant? Specifically. No drive-by postings either. Use everything you've got at your disposal to put my in my place.

I'll play along with you Datonn. I love your attitude that it is a bunch of right-wing zealots unfairly attaching and attacking the President, over this matter, when it really isn't his job. I think most people (obviously not you) hold the President responsible just for his own behavior; such as calling this a spontaneous uprising and wrapping himself up in the flag shamelessly, at the service for the four fallen men of our Embassy in Libya. If there is a coverup the President us either complicit or incompetent. If State's opinion was that this was a terrorist attack and knew this within 48 hours (they knew before that, BTW), why the "video" line being fed to the public by the President himself? Why the big charade of arresting this film-maker? If you care about the four men who were killed, and you should, then you should be concerned with the questions of "who knew what and when?" and less about making excuses for the President.

A couple things:1. Is pittstownkiller an alias for BoneYardDog? I don't think so, but I think BYD's silence to my challenge last night speaks volumes in and of itself.

2. WHY am I either a liar or ignorant? Specifically. I guess your response is an attempt to paint me as ignorant, since you don't seem to be accusing me of being a liar. BYD did it because he/she thought I didn't watch the hearings. Which I did. You're doing it apparently to imply that I'm some liberal who is blindly supporting President Obama. When the funny thing is, *every* time someone out there accuses me of being a liberal to fit their narrative or world-view, they are the ones being ignorant. I turned 18 in 1989 (the first time I could vote in our country). And in 23 years now, I've voted Democrat in Congressional, Senate, and Presidential elections twice. TWICE! Not two cycles of voting all-blue. I'm talking two votes for two specific individuals, across 11 election cycles. About 70% of my other votes have been for the Republican candidates, with the remaining 30% for independents (not the Independence Party, I'm talking truly unaffiliated candidates).

3. Maybe know who you are talking to. I was in the Middle East, boots on the ground, on September 11 (the day of those attacks), and let's just say I have a close professional acquaintance who works in the US State Department. And I've taken a keen interest in the topic, since it not only directly impacts said professional acquaintance of mine, but it also indirectly affects the business I've been doing in the Middle East. Among other things, discussing foreign embassy/consulate mapping with other governments, and the preparation of various emergency evacuation procedures should any of said embassies/consulates ever face a natural disaster or other issues threatening the safety of the individuals inside of it (i.e. uprisings, terrorist attacks, et al). My guess is the extent to which you're following the story is Fox News, along with a bit of print/online articles from the right-wing media. Congratulations...you're seeing/hearing about 20-30% of the story. Not saying I've got more than 50-60% of the story myself! But having to listen to folks like BYD and yourself lob around the "ignorant" label is cute.

4. Our entire government needs to be held accountable for our actions overseas and the safety of our nation's citizens. I'm not saying the administration has no ownership in what occurred. What YOU (and others like you) are saying is that it is ONLY the administration's (vis-a-vis Obama and the Democrats) responsibility/fault. Not one blessed comment about anything that Congress has/hasn't passed or done. And almost portraying those folks as heroes/warriors for parading them in front of their hearing in front of the cameras to try and win a couple hundred more "undecideds" for Romney/Ryan in battleground states...when Congress has every-bit as much responsibility and accountability to our actions overseas and the safety of our nation's citizens as the Executive Branch. We're not a one-branch form of government who has everyone else kissing its ring. Well, maybe after the Patriot Act we are...but that's a whole other can of worms that needs to be tackled. We're a three-branch form of government with a two-party system. And just like it would be ludicrous to place all the blame for 9/11 (2001) on GW and Cheney, it is ludicrous to place all the blame for 9/11 (2012) on Obama/Biden and/or the State Department.

There. Please continue to flame-away.

 

[StrikeS2k]

KELLY: Libya security cut while Vienna embassy gained Chevy VoltsExamining the State Department’s misplaced green prioritiesBy Rep. Mike KellyWednesday, October 10, 2012In a May 3, 2012, email, the State Department denied a request by a group of Special Forces assigned to protect the U.S. embassy in Libya to continue their use of a DC- 3 airplane for security operations throughout the country.The subject line of the email, on which slain Ambassador Chris Stevens was copied, read: “Termination of Tripoli DC-3 Support.”Four days later, on May 7, the State Department authorized the U.S. embassy in Vienna to purchase a $108,000 electric vehicle charging station for the embassy motor pool’s new Chevrolet Volts. The purchase was a part of the State Department’s “Energy Efficiency Sweep of Europe” initiative, which included hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars on green program expenditures at various U.S. Embassies.In fact, at a May 10 gala held at the U.S. embassy in Vienna, the ambassador showcased his new Volts and other green investments as part of the U.S. government’s commitment to “climate change solutions.”The event posting on the embassy website read: “Celebrating the Greening of the Embassy.”While the embassy in Vienna was going green, the consulate in Benghazi was getting bombed, and little was done to stop it.Before the terrorist attack that took the lives of Ambassador Chris Stevens, Sean Smith, Glen Doherty and Tyrone Woods, there were more than 230 security incidents in Libya between June 2011 and July 2012.Of those attacks, 48 took place in Benghazi, two at the U.S. diplomatic compound and scene of the September 11, 2012, terrorist attacks.This first attack on the Benghazi compound occurred on April 6, 2012, when two Libyans threw a crude improvised explosive device over the compound wall. Two months later, another IED exploded at the compound, wounding one person and leaving a hole in the perimeter wall large enough for 40 people to run through.The second attack was linked to the “Brigades of the Imprisoned Sheikh Omar Abdul Rahman,” a jihadist, pro-al Qaeda group named after the mastermind of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing. The same group was responsible for subsequent attacks on the British ambassador to Libya and the International Committee of the Red Cross, both of which took place in Benghazi just months before the September attack.While these steady and increasingly violent attacks on western interests mounted, the U.S. State Department repeatedly rejected requests for additional protection measures for our security teams in Libya.According to Eric Nordstrom, a regional security officer of the U.S. Mission to Libya from September 2011 to July 2012, the State Department not only refused his requests for greater security, but actually reduced the number of Diplomatic Security Service (DSS) agents assigned to foreign service officers based in Libya. Ironically, as the State Department withdrew security resources, it increased hazard pay for its employees based in Libya by 5 percent.Mr. Nordstrom’s concerns regarding the escalating violence and inadequate security provisions, especially at the Benghazi compound, were shared by Lt. Col. Andrew Wood, commander of the 16-member Security Support Team (SST) in Libya from February to August 2012. Lt. Col. Wood, who left Libya shortly before Ambassador Stevens was assassinated, believed that the SST presence needed to be extended, an idea Mr. Nordstrom said was shot down by the State Department in early July.When Lt. Col. Wood and Mr. Nordstrom surveyed the Benghazi compound’s physical security in March 2012, they said the security provisions were “inappropriately low,” with just one DSS agent available to supervise the 24-hour security. In addition to the DSS agent, the compound was protected by four armed members of the 17th of February Martyrs Brigade and unarmed Libyan contractors employed by the British-based Blue Mountain Group.According to an employment contract recovered at the Benghazi compound by the Washington Post shortly after the September attacks, those unarmed Libyan contractors were making roughly $4 dollars an hour.If that was indeed the case, the State Department, using the funds provided to the U.S. embassy in Austria for an electric vehicle charger, could have provided Ambassador Stevens with three additional guards, 24 hours a day, for 365 days, with some money left over.This is not to argue that having more guards, extending the SST presence, or authorizing the continued use of the DC-3 plane would have prevented Ambassador Stevens’ death, which marked the first assassination of a U.S. ambassador since the 1970s. It does, however, raise a question about the State Department’s spending priorities.Should the money directed toward other State Department initiatives, such as the “Energy Efficiency Sweep of Europe,” have gone toward efforts to secure highly vulnerable State Department personnel in areas like Libya?In terms of securing the U.S. mission in Libya, it’s hard to argue that the money wasn’t there.What seemed to be lacking was the common sense to know where to spend it.Europe’s green energy sweep should have been Libya’s security sweep. Instead, the very real threats to the U.S. mission in Libya were swept under the rug.Rep. Mike Kelly is a Pennsylvania Republican.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/oct/10/kelly-libya-security-cut-while-vienna-embassy-gain/?page=all#pagebreak

 

[pittstownkiller]

]A couple things:1. Is pittstownkiller an alias for BoneYardDog? I don't think so, but I think BYD's silence to my challenge last night speaks volumes in and of itself. 2. WHY am I either a liar or ignorant? Specifically. I guess your response is an attempt to paint me as ignorant, since you don't seem to be accusing me of being a liar. BYD did it because he/she thought I didn't watch the hearings. Which I did. You're doing it apparently to imply that I'm some liberal who is blindly supporting President Obama. When the funny thing is, *every* time someone out there accuses me of being a liberal to fit their narrative or world-view, they are the ones being ignorant. I turned 18 in 1989 (the first time I could vote in our country). And in 23 years now, I've voted Democrat in Congressional, Senate, and Presidential elections twice. TWICE! Not two cycles of voting all-blue. I'm talking two votes for two specific individuals, across 11 election cycles. About 70% of my other votes have been for the Republican candidates, with the remaining 30% for independents (not the Independence Party, I'm talking truly unaffiliated candidates).3. Maybe know who you are talking to. I was in the Middle East, boots on the ground, on September 11 (the day of those attacks), and let's just say I have a close professional acquaintance who works in the US State Department. And I've taken a keen interest in the topic, since it not only directly impacts said professional acquaintance of mine, but it also indirectly affects the business I've been doing in the Middle East. Among other things, discussing foreign embassy/consulate mapping with other governments, and the preparation of various emergency evacuation procedures should any of said embassies/consulates ever face a natural disaster or other issues threatening the safety of the individuals inside of it (i.e. uprisings, terrorist attacks, et al). My guess is the extent to which you're following the story is Fox News, along with a bit of print/online articles from the right-wing media. Congratulations...you're seeing/hearing about 20-30% of the story. Not saying I've got more than 50-60% of the story myself! But having to listen to folks like BYD and yourself lob around the "ignorant" label is cute.4. Our entire government needs to be held accountable for our actions overseas and the safety of our nation's citizens. I'm not saying the administration has no ownership in what occurred. What YOU (and others like you) are saying is that it is ONLY the administration's (vis-a-vis Obama and the Democrats) responsibility/fault. Not one blessed comment about anything that Congress has/hasn't passed or done. And almost portraying those folks as heroes/warriors for parading them in front of their hearing in front of the cameras to try and win a couple hundred more "undecideds" for Romney/Ryan in battleground states...when Congress has every-bit as much responsibility and accountability to our actions overseas and the safety of our nation's citizens as the Executive Branch. We're not a one-branch form of government who has everyone else kissing its ring. Well, maybe after the Patriot Act we are...but that's a whole other can of worms that needs to be tackled. We're a three-branch form of government with a two-party system. And just like it would be ludicrous to place all the blame for 9/11 (2001) on GW and Cheney, it is ludicrous to place all the blame for 9/11 (2012) on Obama/Biden and/or the State Department.There. Please continue to flame-away.

I appreciate your post Datonn - I really do - so I'll take the time to answer you seriously. First I am not an alias for BYD, or any other poster; I believe that the amount of time that I spend on here would pretty much rule that out. I am glad you didn't accuse me of accusing you, of being a liar, because I am not. I guess ignorant would be a fair characterization of my post but not the one I would choose; I would choose instead partisan, or if I was being polite I would say indifferent. I see by your post, which I take at face value, that you are neither partisan or indifferent; I am sorry if I presented your opinion incorrectly in my reply to you but I will stand by the gist of my post - just without the characterization of your position. I believe that the Administration's concerted effort to shape this story is despicable; that falls on Obama's shoulders. The very fact that it happened falls on State's shoulders; even though it may have been unavoidable. I am smart enough to realize that we are in some bad areas in the world and our people are in danger - deaths are going to occur. What I don't disregard so easily is the President and Secretary Clinton addressing the families of our fallen men, while continuing to disguise the circumstances in which they died; my reply to you was along these lines. My reply to you had to do with you deflecting the attacks on the President as it isn't really in his sphere of influence, while my criticism has been mostly about how the President has chosen to frame this story; I feel this is a fair point to challenge the Preaident on. I entered this thread completely about the political fallout of this story in an election year (something I have been criticized for) but have stayed here as the Administration's actions will not let it die. Once again if I unfairly characterized you, either expressly or by implication, I apologize to you but I feel most of my reply accurately states my feeling that there is some valid culpability for the President here. I do watch Fox news but I was watching C-span for the better part of yesterday; I also base my views on the actual spoken words of Obama and Clinton, and public opinion - not the Fox spin you imply or some under-reporting you may claim they are doing.

 

[moleculo]

A couple things:

1. Is pittstownkiller an alias for BoneYardDog? I don't think so, but I think BYD's silence to my challenge last night speaks volumes in and of itself.

2. WHY am I either a liar or ignorant? Specifically. I guess your response is an attempt to paint me as ignorant, since you don't seem to be accusing me of being a liar. BYD did it because he/she thought I didn't watch the hearings. Which I did. You're doing it apparently to imply that I'm some liberal who is blindly supporting President Obama. When the funny thing is, *every* time someone out there accuses me of being a liberal to fit their narrative or world-view, they are the ones being ignorant. I turned 18 in 1989 (the first time I could vote in our country). And in 23 years now, I've voted Democrat in Congressional, Senate, and Presidential elections twice. TWICE! Not two cycles of voting all-blue. I'm talking two votes for two specific individuals, across 11 election cycles. About 70% of my other votes have been for the Republican candidates, with the remaining 30% for independents (not the Independence Party, I'm talking truly unaffiliated candidates).

3. Maybe know who you are talking to. I was in the Middle East, boots on the ground, on September 11 (the day of those attacks), and let's just say I have a close professional acquaintance who works in the US State Department. And I've taken a keen interest in the topic, since it not only directly impacts said professional acquaintance of mine, but it also indirectly affects the business I've been doing in the Middle East. Among other things, discussing foreign embassy/consulate mapping with other governments, and the preparation of various emergency evacuation procedures should any of said embassies/consulates ever face a natural disaster or other issues threatening the safety of the individuals inside of it (i.e. uprisings, terrorist attacks, et al). My guess is the extent to which you're following the story is Fox News, along with a bit of print/online articles from the right-wing media. Congratulations...you're seeing/hearing about 20-30% of the story. Not saying I've got more than 50-60% of the story myself! But having to listen to folks like BYD and yourself lob around the "ignorant" label is cute.

4. Our entire government needs to be held accountable for our actions overseas and the safety of our nation's citizens. I'm not saying the administration has no ownership in what occurred. What YOU (and others like you) are saying is that it is ONLY the administration's (vis-a-vis Obama and the Democrats) responsibility/fault. Not one blessed comment about anything that Congress has/hasn't passed or done. And almost portraying those folks as heroes/warriors for parading them in front of their hearing in front of the cameras to try and win a couple hundred more "undecideds" for Romney/Ryan in battleground states...when Congress has every-bit as much responsibility and accountability to our actions overseas and the safety of our nation's citizens as the Executive Branch. We're not a one-branch form of government who has everyone else kissing its ring. Well, maybe after the Patriot Act we are...but that's a whole other can of worms that needs to be tackled. We're a three-branch form of government with a two-party system. And just like it would be ludicrous to place all the blame for 9/11 (2001) on GW and Cheney, it is ludicrous to place all the blame for 9/11 (2012) on Obama/Biden and/or the State Department.

There. Please continue to flame-away.

That's all well and good, but it rings hollow when it follows this bit of (anti)partisan hackery. If you want to be taken seriously, pls try to keep broad-stroke political drivel to a minimum, especially in a thread about current events.

 

[datonn]

A couple things:

1. Is pittstownkiller an alias for BoneYardDog? I don't think so, but I think BYD's silence to my challenge last night speaks volumes in and of itself.

2. WHY am I either a liar or ignorant? Specifically. I guess your response is an attempt to paint me as ignorant, since you don't seem to be accusing me of being a liar. BYD did it because he/she thought I didn't watch the hearings. Which I did. You're doing it apparently to imply that I'm some liberal who is blindly supporting President Obama. When the funny thing is, *every* time someone out there accuses me of being a liberal to fit their narrative or world-view, they are the ones being ignorant. I turned 18 in 1989 (the first time I could vote in our country). And in 23 years now, I've voted Democrat in Congressional, Senate, and Presidential elections twice. TWICE! Not two cycles of voting all-blue. I'm talking two votes for two specific individuals, across 11 election cycles. About 70% of my other votes have been for the Republican candidates, with the remaining 30% for independents (not the Independence Party, I'm talking truly unaffiliated candidates).

3. Maybe know who you are talking to. I was in the Middle East, boots on the ground, on September 11 (the day of those attacks), and let's just say I have a close professional acquaintance who works in the US State Department. And I've taken a keen interest in the topic, since it not only directly impacts said professional acquaintance of mine, but it also indirectly affects the business I've been doing in the Middle East. Among other things, discussing foreign embassy/consulate mapping with other governments, and the preparation of various emergency evacuation procedures should any of said embassies/consulates ever face a natural disaster or other issues threatening the safety of the individuals inside of it (i.e. uprisings, terrorist attacks, et al). My guess is the extent to which you're following the story is Fox News, along with a bit of print/online articles from the right-wing media. Congratulations...you're seeing/hearing about 20-30% of the story. Not saying I've got more than 50-60% of the story myself! But having to listen to folks like BYD and yourself lob around the "ignorant" label is cute.

4. Our entire government needs to be held accountable for our actions overseas and the safety of our nation's citizens. I'm not saying the administration has no ownership in what occurred. What YOU (and others like you) are saying is that it is ONLY the administration's (vis-a-vis Obama and the Democrats) responsibility/fault. Not one blessed comment about anything that Congress has/hasn't passed or done. And almost portraying those folks as heroes/warriors for parading them in front of their hearing in front of the cameras to try and win a couple hundred more "undecideds" for Romney/Ryan in battleground states...when Congress has every-bit as much responsibility and accountability to our actions overseas and the safety of our nation's citizens as the Executive Branch. We're not a one-branch form of government who has everyone else kissing its ring. Well, maybe after the Patriot Act we are...but that's a whole other can of worms that needs to be tackled. We're a three-branch form of government with a two-party system. And just like it would be ludicrous to place all the blame for 9/11 (2001) on GW and Cheney, it is ludicrous to place all the blame for 9/11 (2012) on Obama/Biden and/or the State Department.

There. Please continue to flame-away.

I appreciate your post Datonn - I really do - so I'll take the time to answer you seriously. First I am not an alias for BYD, or any other poster; I believe that the amount of time that I spend on here would pretty much rule that out. I am glad you didn't accuse me of accusing you, of being a liar, because I am not. I guess ignorant would be a fair characterization of my post but not the one I would choose; I would choose instead partisan, or if I was being polite I would say indifferent. I see by your post, which I take at face value, that you are neither partisan or indifferent; I am sorry if I presented your opinion incorrectly in my reply to you but I will stand by the gist of my post - just without the characterization of your position. I believe that the Administration's concerted effort to shape this story is despicable; that falls on Obama's shoulders. The very fact that it happened falls on State's shoulders; even though it may have been unavoidable. I am smart enough to realize that we are in some bad areas in the world and our people are in danger - deaths are going to occur. What I don't disregard so easily is the President and Secretary Clinton addressing the families of our fallen men, while continuing to disguise the circumstances in which they died; my reply to you was along these lines. My reply to you had to do with you deflecting the attacks on the President as it isn't really in his sphere of influence, while my criticism has been mostly about how the President has chosen to frame this story; I feel this is a fair point to challenge the Preaident on. I entered this thread completely about the political fallout of this story in an election year (something I have been criticized for) but have stayed here as the Administration's actions will not let it die. Once again if I unfairly characterized you, either expressly or by implication, I apologize to you but I feel most of my reply accurately states my feeling that there is some valid culpability for the President here. I do watch Fox news but I was watching C-span for the better part of yesterday; I also base my views on the actual spoken words of Obama and Clinton, and public opinion - not the Fox spin you imply or some under-reporting you may claim they are doing.

Fair enough, and I appreciate the reply very much.Maybe I'm "too close" to the situation? I was nowhere near Egypt or Libya during the attacks...I was in Abu Dhabi and Dubai in the UAE that day. But as an American and a civilian traveling in the Middle East during a time in history when I wouldn't necessarily be a "welcomed face" in Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Saudi Arabia (a place I'll probably need to travel to next), et al, you have a heightened sense of awareness to everything that is going on around you along those lines...because it's not just some nameless/faceless mob 8,500 miles from home! It's right there, a stone's throw away. And if you don't keep your eyes open and your head on a swivel, and/or you aren't wise to all the little signs and issues, you can get yourself into a lot of trouble. Or dead. Just like walking anywhere here in the US where we're not familiar with the local scene. Walk into the wrong neighborhood or down the wrong street at the wrong time of day? God help you.

The problem we Americans have is that we paint EVERYBODY in the region with that same broad brush. Muslim = Terrorist or Jihad! THAT is true "ignorance." When news broke of the attacks in Libya and Egypt, I'm sure a lot of people here would envision lots of people in the Middle East cheering, slapping their shoes on a picture of President Obama, burning American flags, and maybe even firing a few shots up into the air. Because that's what the media reports on. Because that's what drives ratings and/or furthers agendas. What REALLY happened in the Middle East when news broke of those attacks, in my own, first-hand experience?

1. Probably 80-90 percent of people expressing frustration and commenting "when will the violence end?"

2. Probably about 80-90 percent of people having a pit in their stomach...wondering when/where the Americans' response would come, and how many (more) innocent civilians would be injured or killed as adjacent casualties/victims to pursuing those responsible.

I could get off on a LONG tangent...so I'll stop. Hopefully that helps though.

 

[datonn]

That's all well and good, but it rings hollow when it follows this bit of (anti)partisan hackery. If you want to be taken seriously, pls try to keep broad-stroke political drivel to a minimum, especially in a thread about current events.

True...and I have trouble keeping my cool/tongue, just like a lot of the rest of you guys. But my goodness am I frustrated. Frustrated with the Republican Party. The Party I called home for 15+ years...who became hijacked and sidetracked by the agenda of a minority who have completely destroyed it. I am HARD on the Republican Party...very hard. Not because I'm a Democrat! But because the Republicans have gone SOOOOOOOO far off-target and off-message (the core message of fiscal conservativism while being socially moderate/tolerant and accepting of other beliefs/lifestyles) that I feel wronged and betrayed.I'm not claiming to be a saint or perfect...far from it! I've just become entirely jaded and disillusioned by how quickly and easily the Republican Party has allowed itself to be dismantled.

 

[moleculo]

That's all well and good, but it rings hollow when it follows this bit of (anti)partisan hackery. If you want to be taken seriously, pls try to keep broad-stroke political drivel to a minimum, especially in a thread about current events.

True...and I have trouble keeping my cool/tongue, just like a lot of the rest of you guys. But my goodness am I frustrated. Frustrated with the Republican Party. The Party I called home for 15+ years...who became hijacked and sidetracked by the agenda of a minority who have completely destroyed it. I am HARD on the Republican Party...very hard. Not because I'm a Democrat! But because the Republicans have gone SOOOOOOOO far off-target and off-message (the core message of fiscal conservativism while being socially moderate/tolerant and accepting of other beliefs/lifestyles) that I feel wronged and betrayed.I'm not claiming to be a saint or perfect...far from it! I've just become entirely jaded and disillusioned by how quickly and easily the Republican Party has allowed itself to be dismantled.

I hear you and understand completely, but there are plenty of other threads for that. I'm certainly no thread cop, but when I want to read about this situation and all I see is "Obama did this" or "evil republicans did that", I find it extremely frustrating. I have been ignoring anyone who posts overtly political messages in non-political threads...on both sides of the aisle. Now it seems like every other poss is automatically ignored.

 

[BoneYardDog]

My gosh...I swear I'm embarrassed to be an American sometimes (particularly since 9/11).

My last.fm player was a bit spotty this afternnon, and kept having little hiccups while playing my music. Obviously, that's because Barack HUSSEIN Obama is POTUS.

My oldest daughter lied to my wife tonight, and was kind of mean to her little sister. Obviously, she must have learned that behavior in school...due to all that "evolution" and "sex ed" she's being taught by liberals with a liberal agenda. Well okay, she won't have sex ed for another two years...but still! I'm sure her current teachers are talking about it. Thanks to? You guessed it...Barack HUSSEIN Obama!

My "personal plumbing" hasn't been working quite right for the past several days. Maybe it's all the Mexican food I've been eating (since our POTUS has refused to get tough on immigration)? Or maybe it's all those fruits and vegetables I've been eating, since our First Lady-in-Chief has been forcing my kids to eat more fruits and vegetables at school...which must be some type of voodoo that is resulting in us eating more fruits and vegetables before/after they go to school and on the weekends. And she wouldn't be First Lady if not for? You guessed it...Barack HUSSEIN Obama!

Do people even realize how embarrassing they are? I mean, is some of the mean streak and cynicism due to people feeling like absolute mindless tools? Then trying to bring others down into the depths of hell with them? Or is it just ignorance? Or being a lemming that will walk wherever Rush, Papa Bear, and Hannity are playing their flute?

The Republican platform has a LOT of good ideas! But my goodness, I don't know how any moderate/independent can stand the smell (myself included), much less cast a vote in the Party's favor.

Watch the CSPAN link and quit being so ignorant...

Why do I need to re-watch the hearing...when I watched it live earlier this morning?

Well you are either a liar or ignorant...Go watch Big Bird while you still can...

I'll play along. WHY am I either a liar or ignorant? Specifically. No drive-by postings either. Use everything you've got at your disposal to put my in my place.

I'll play along with you Datonn. I love your attitude that it is a bunch of right-wing zealots unfairly attaching and attacking the President, over this matter, when it really isn't his job. I think most people (obviously not you) hold the President responsible just for his own behavior; such as calling this a spontaneous uprising and wrapping himself up in the flag shamelessly, at the service for the four fallen men of our Embassy in Libya. If there is a coverup the President us either complicit or incompetent. If State's opinion was that this was a terrorist attack and knew this within 48 hours (they knew before that, BTW), why the "video" line being fed to the public by the President himself? Why the big charade of arresting this film-maker? If you care about the four men who were killed, and you should, then you should be concerned with the questions of "who knew what and when?" and less about making excuses for the President.

A couple things:1. Is pittstownkiller an alias for BoneYardDog? I don't think so, but I think BYD's silence to my challenge last night speaks volumes in and of itself.

2. WHY am I either a liar or ignorant? Specifically. I guess your response is an attempt to paint me as ignorant, since you don't seem to be accusing me of being a liar. BYD did it because he/she thought I didn't watch the hearings. Which I did. You're doing it apparently to imply that I'm some liberal who is blindly supporting President Obama. When the funny thing is, *every* time someone out there accuses me of being a liberal to fit their narrative or world-view, they are the ones being ignorant. I turned 18 in 1989 (the first time I could vote in our country). And in 23 years now, I've voted Democrat in Congressional, Senate, and Presidential elections twice. TWICE! Not two cycles of voting all-blue. I'm talking two votes for two specific individuals, across 11 election cycles. About 70% of my other votes have been for the Republican candidates, with the remaining 30% for independents (not the Independence Party, I'm talking truly unaffiliated candidates).

3. Maybe know who you are talking to. I was in the Middle East, boots on the ground, on September 11 (the day of those attacks), and let's just say I have a close professional acquaintance who works in the US State Department. And I've taken a keen interest in the topic, since it not only directly impacts said professional acquaintance of mine, but it also indirectly affects the business I've been doing in the Middle East. Among other things, discussing foreign embassy/consulate mapping with other governments, and the preparation of various emergency evacuation procedures should any of said embassies/consulates ever face a natural disaster or other issues threatening the safety of the individuals inside of it (i.e. uprisings, terrorist attacks, et al). My guess is the extent to which you're following the story is Fox News, along with a bit of print/online articles from the right-wing media. Congratulations...you're seeing/hearing about 20-30% of the story. Not saying I've got more than 50-60% of the story myself! But having to listen to folks like BYD and yourself lob around the "ignorant" label is cute.

4. Our entire government needs to be held accountable for our actions overseas and the safety of our nation's citizens. I'm not saying the administration has no ownership in what occurred. What YOU (and others like you) are saying is that it is ONLY the administration's (vis-a-vis Obama and the Democrats) responsibility/fault. Not one blessed comment about anything that Congress has/hasn't passed or done. And almost portraying those folks as heroes/warriors for parading them in front of their hearing in front of the cameras to try and win a couple hundred more "undecideds" for Romney/Ryan in battleground states...when Congress has every-bit as much responsibility and accountability to our actions overseas and the safety of our nation's citizens as the Executive Branch. We're not a one-branch form of government who has everyone else kissing its ring. Well, maybe after the Patriot Act we are...but that's a whole other can of worms that needs to be tackled. We're a three-branch form of government with a two-party system. And just like it would be ludicrous to place all the blame for 9/11 (2001) on GW and Cheney, it is ludicrous to place all the blame for 9/11 (2012) on Obama/Biden and/or the State Department.

There. Please continue to flame-away.

My silence is because I got off the internet for the night and I spent all day today working...Again either your a liar or ignorant because you could not have watched the hearings and taken away the drivel you posted from what you heard...

Governor Mitt Romney objected heatedly to an Obama spokeswoman's dismissal of criticism of his Administration's handling of the Libya crisis as a political issue driven by Romney and Paul Ryan.

Obama and his campaign "fail to grasp the seriousness of the challenges we face here in America," Romney said.

"No, President Obama, it is an issue because this is the first time in 33 years that a United States Ambassador has been assassinated," Romney said during a campaign stop in Asheville, North Carolina. "Mr. President, this is an issue because we were attacked successfully by terrorists on the anniversary of 9/11. President Obama, this is an issue because Americans wonder why it was that it took so long for you and your Administration to admit this was a terrorist attack."

"This is a very serious issue, these are very serious questions, the American people deserve serious answers, and I hope they come soon" he said.

 

[BoneYardDog]

The murder of Americans on 9/11 has nothing whatsoever to do w/any negligence on the part of POTUS. Except Bush on 9/11...