Ukraine Violence - Obama warns them (1 Viewer)

[tommyGunZ]

Speak loudly, carry a little stick.

Update?

The Russkies just ramped up their interest rates 6.5%, from around 10.0 to ~16.5.

Putin has declared a near total blockade on Urkainian goods.

But there has been no bloodshed the last 3-4 days for the first time since April.

So Russia's economy is now in complete free fall; the ruble has been decimated and this rate hike will insure a deep recession.Putin still playing chess?

Yes.We are so far from any type of conclusion. Hopefully Putin comes to his senses and doesn't react irrationally.

I'm not very good at chess. Can you explain how Putin has strengthened Russia's position the last 6-8 months?

You can regroup to a defensive position in chess and wait for an opening or mistake by your opponent.

Ah. So all of the disastrous economic news out of Russia is just a part of Putin's plan to lull the rest of the world to sleep so he can strike.

BRILLIANT!!

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Speak loudly, carry a little stick.

Update?

The Russkies just ramped up their interest rates 6.5%, from around 10.0 to ~16.5.

Putin has declared a near total blockade on Urkainian goods.

But there has been no bloodshed the last 3-4 days for the first time since April.

So Russia's economy is now in complete free fall; the ruble has been decimated and this rate hike will insure a deep recession.

Putin still playing chess?

Maybe he is, scarey to think of him playing chess with his people's future.

It's a tough spot for us too, nothing worse than a wounded, cornered bear. I don't think Vlad plans to go quietly like the Soviets, he's already played that game out in his head a hundred times.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Speak loudly, carry a little stick.

Update?

The Russkies just ramped up their interest rates 6.5%, from around 10.0 to ~16.5.

Putin has declared a near total blockade on Urkainian goods.

But there has been no bloodshed the last 3-4 days for the first time since April.

So Russia's economy is now in complete free fall; the ruble has been decimated and this rate hike will insure a deep recession.

Putin still playing chess?

Maybe he is, scarey to think of him playing chess with his people's future.

It's a tough spot for us too, nothing worse than a wounded, cornered bear. I don't think Vlad plans to go quietly like the Soviets, he's already played that game out in his head a hundred times.

Really? Wouldn't the bear be better positioned if he was fully healthy?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

So ... I went to a symposium featuring the Ukrainian consul in New Orleans recently. (Seriously...).

And I won't get into that whole thing about what he talked about (especially as I wasn't that impressed) but there was a young Russian guy there, a student at a local university, and he said that the Russian people are under the impression that when Reagan met with Gorbachev he (Ronnie) promised that the USA would not move NATO into the former Warsaw Pact countries and the newly formed nations if the USSR stood down and followed through with reform and glasnost.

That's all really complicated and a lot of water passed under a lot of bridges, but still that's something that apparently turns Putin's screws and also gives the Russians a sense of having been screwed.

But what I really found interesting is that he said that that leads Putin and the Russian people who support him into thinking they have to hold Ukraine at all costs, that they have to prevent it by any means necessary from falling into the European sphere because ultimately this means they will inevitably join NATO and they cannot trust USA assurances to the contrary.

I didn't say it at the time but it worries me that Russia could be falling into the same mindset as Weimar Germany circa 1930's, especially if the economy crumbles. Take a sense of encirclement, add a major dose of resentment and the feeling of having been tricked and ripped off, and throw in a dash of desperation, toss in some nationalism to bolster the public support, and it's a toxic mix. Color me just worried right now, not that I can say that's actually going on.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Speak loudly, carry a little stick.

Update?

The Russkies just ramped up their interest rates 6.5%, from around 10.0 to ~16.5.

Putin has declared a near total blockade on Urkainian goods.

But there has been no bloodshed the last 3-4 days for the first time since April.

So Russia's economy is now in complete free fall; the ruble has been decimated and this rate hike will insure a deep recession.

Putin still playing chess?

Maybe he is, scarey to think of him playing chess with his people's future.

It's a tough spot for us too, nothing worse than a wounded, cornered bear. I don't think Vlad plans to go quietly like the Soviets, he's already played that game out in his head a hundred times.

Really? Wouldn't the bear be better positioned if he was fully healthy?

You're right. Putin doesn't respond to anything but pressure, so we have to do what we're doing.

I would prefer a healthy, democratic, free Russia incorporated into Europe and partners with us. But that's not happening so we don't want to see a Putin led dictatorship feeling bold and pushing others around. I'm just saying that that situation also poses risks for us.

 

[SacramentoBob]

Let's stop with the chess talk please.

 

[jamny]

Speak loudly, carry a little stick.

Update?

The Russkies just ramped up their interest rates 6.5%, from around 10.0 to ~16.5.

Putin has declared a near total blockade on Urkainian goods.

But there has been no bloodshed the last 3-4 days for the first time since April.

So Russia's economy is now in complete free fall; the ruble has been decimated and this rate hike will insure a deep recession.Putin still playing chess?

Yes.We are so far from any type of conclusion. Hopefully Putin comes to his senses and doesn't react irrationally.

I'm not very good at chess. Can you explain how Putin has strengthened Russia's position the last 6-8 months?

You can regroup to a defensive position in chess and wait for an opening or mistake by your opponent.

Ah. So all of the disastrous economic news out of Russia is just a part of Putin's plan to lull the rest of the world to sleep so he can strike.

BRILLIANT!!

I think you're better than this.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Let's stop with the chess talk please.

Ok, your move, Boris.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Let's stop with the chess talk please.

By the way, is that a Russian/Cyrillic poster in your avatar, or am I just seeing things?

 

[SacramentoBob]

Let's stop with the chess talk please.

By the way, is that a Russian/Cyrillic poster in your avatar, or am I just seeing things?

http://goo.gl/94SPeb

 

[Boris Spassky]

Ok, your move, Boris.

1. e4

 

[TheIronSheik]

Let's stop with the chess talk please.

King me!

 

[tommyGunZ]

Speak loudly, carry a little stick.

Update?

The Russkies just ramped up their interest rates 6.5%, from around 10.0 to ~16.5.

Putin has declared a near total blockade on Urkainian goods.

But there has been no bloodshed the last 3-4 days for the first time since April.

So Russia's economy is now in complete free fall; the ruble has been decimated and this rate hike will insure a deep recession.Putin still playing chess?

Yes.We are so far from any type of conclusion. Hopefully Putin comes to his senses and doesn't react irrationally.

I'm not very good at chess. Can you explain how Putin has strengthened Russia's position the last 6-8 months?

You can regroup to a defensive position in chess and wait for an opening or mistake by your opponent.

Ah. So all of the disastrous economic news out of Russia is just a part of Putin's plan to lull the rest of the world to sleep so he can strike.

BRILLIANT!!

I think you're better than this.

You officially rescinding your February "speak loudly, carry a little stick" analysis?

 

[TheAristocrat]

If we export Michelle Obama's Lunch Program to Russia, this all ends in a few days.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

If we export Michelle Obama's Lunch Program to Russia, this all ends in a few days.

I think if we made a trade of Michelle for Putin's girlfriend, I'd be ok with that (and I think Barack would be too).

(jk people, I love MO, I just wanted to do that search, tia).

 

[jamny]

You officially rescinding your February "speak loudly, carry a little stick" analysis?

No.

Still applies, imo.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

It's a tough spot for us too, nothing worse than a wounded, cornered bear. I don't think Vlad plans to go quietly like the Soviets, he's already played that game out in his head a hundred times.

Sure there is. A bear that's eating you and everyone you know without a mark on him is worse.

Plus, Yogi Bear. He's worse too.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

It's a tough spot for us too, nothing worse than a wounded, cornered bear. I don't think Vlad plans to go quietly like the Soviets, he's already played that game out in his head a hundred times.

Sure there is. A bear that's eating you and everyone you know without a mark on him is worse.

Plus, Yogi Bear. He's worse too.

There is a saying about how you don't have to be faster than a bear, just faster than everyone else being chased by a bear.

Also, I can't believe you said that about Yogi.

 

[TheAristocrat]

If we export Michelle Obama's Lunch Program to Russia, this all ends in a few days.

I think if we made a trade of Michelle for Putin's girlfriend, I'd be ok with that (and I think Barack would be too).

(jk people, I love MO, I just wanted to do that search, tia).

I could get behind that in a big way.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

CNN reporting Russia is having a "Black Tuesday" & the Ruble is crashing. It's a crisis in Moscow. Better be careful here.

 

[Joe Summer]

Speak loudly, carry a little stick.

Update?

The Russkies just ramped up their interest rates 6.5%, from around 10.0 to ~16.5.

Putin has declared a near total blockade on Urkainian goods.

But there has been no bloodshed the last 3-4 days for the first time since April.

So Russia's economy is now in complete free fall; the ruble has been decimated and this rate hike will insure a deep recession.Putin still playing chess?

Yes.We are so far from any type of conclusion. Hopefully Putin comes to his senses and doesn't react irrationally.

I'm not very good at chess. Can you explain how Putin has strengthened Russia's position the last 6-8 months?

You can regroup to a defensive position in chess and wait for an opening or mistake by your opponent.

Yes you can, yes we did, and yes he did. Checkmate.

 

[jamny]

Checkmate? Already?

Hard to believe that people think we are at the end game here.

 

[TheIronSheik]

Checkmate? Already?

Hard to believe that people think we are at the end game here.

Why worry about the future when we can celebrate now? MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!

 

[cstu]

Where are the Russians who were cheering for the invasion of Ukraine now?

Vladimir Putin is suddenly feeling the squeeze.

The Russian president, earlier this year a swashbuckling land-grabber who seemed to confound the West, finds himself in a three-way economic vise — tumbling oil prices, punishing sanctions and now a collapse in his country's currency.

"He really is going to be hit by a perfect storm," said Andrew Kuchins, director of the Russia program at the Center for Strategic & International Studies. "Although much of it is his own making."

The value of the Russian ruble plunged by as much as 20 percent on Tuesday despite a desperate attempt by the central bank to strengthen the currency by jacking up interest rates. The ruble has lost half its value this year against the dollar.

Blame the two other crises that have sprung up on Putin.

One is the unexpected drop in the price of oil, the lifeblood of the Russian economy, to the lowest in five years. The Bank of Russia said Monday that if the decline holds, the Russian economy will shrink more than 4 percent next year — a severe recession.

"The things that bring all czars down are economic problems."

The other is the economic pain caused by sanctions imposed on Russia by the United States and Europe earlier this year, after Putin grabbed the Crimean peninsula from Ukraine and was accused of stoking unrest in other parts of the country.

Putin has antagonized the West to promote his own popularity, and he remains firmly in charge. (Guess who just won Man of the Year in Russia for the 15th time in a row.) But the current economic crunch has some analysts saying that grip might loosen.

Putin's powerful friends in the oligarchy have been hamstrung themselves by Western sanctions limiting their travel and access to world markets. Those same oligarchs, particularly in the energy industry, are now watching the value of their companies wither.

Meanwhile, the masses are restless: Two weeks ago, Putin froze salaries for Kremlin employees. Days before that, thousands of Russians marched in Moscow to protest the layoffs of thousands of doctors and plans to close hospitals.

And there were reports on Tuesday of Russians scrambling to buy expensive goods like cars and withdrawing their cash from banks to exchange it for dollars.

"The damage has been short-term so far, meaning it hasn't translated into political unrest since people still have jobs, food, electricity," said Matthew Rojansky, a Russia expert at the director of the Wilson Center's Kennan Institute.

But if the economic mess continues for another year, it could translate into large-scale protests. And at that point all bets are off, Rojansky said.

"At that point, Putin will have the same stark choice eventually faced by most authoritarian leaders," he said. "Make major concessions, even step down, or use massive violence against his own people."

Russia in recent weeks has flown provocative routes into NATO airspace, and it's possible that Putin, who relishes being unpredictable and staying on offense, could lash out further, Kuchins said.

But there are early signs that the squeeze may be forcing Putin to back down.

There was no shooting overnight in eastern Ukraine, and Ukrainian leaders have voiced optimism about upcoming peace talks. Secretary of State John Kerry on Tuesday cited "constructive choices" made by Russia, including the withdrawal of some personnel.

At the time same time, though, the prime minister of Russia published an opinion article on Monday threatening economic pain for Ukraine — "the ultimate price they will have to pay" — as that country deepens its integration with Europe.

And the White House is vowing new sanctions against a government-owned Russian arms dealer and other defense companies.

"He really is going to be hit by a perfect storm"

But the broader economic trouble presents the biggest risk for Putin, said Walter Isaacson, the president of the Aspen Institute, a policy studies institute in Washington. He suggested Putin might not make it to re-election in 2018.

"You can't have growth with 17 percent interest rates. You can't have a thriving economy with oil under $60 a barrel," he told CNBC on Tuesday. "The things that bring all czars down are economic problems."

 

[cstu]

This is not going to end well for the people of Ukraine. Russia has been waiting for this day to take this area back. With Obama in office, Putin knows he has little resistance. .

Yes if we only had a tough guy President who would go to war with Russia over this - that would show Putin.

That was my thought when I read that comment. I'd like to know what ANY President would do, other than muster some bluster. It's Russia. They don't really care what we think about their politics.

Well, he isn't being knocked for saying something. He's getting knocked for issuing ANOTER half-###, school-yard threat that EVERYONE knows he won't follow up on.

Yea, I don't think that's what Doc said at all.

No Bucky, that is exactly what I meant.

Obama just talks. He says whatever makes him look good on every subject. See Obamacare.

In this instance, everyone knows he made an empty threat.

Obama should not have made the consequences remark. Period.

ORLY?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Where are the Russians who were cheering for the invasion of Ukraine now?

Vladimir Putin is suddenly feeling the squeeze.

The Russian president, earlier this year a swashbuckling land-grabber who seemed to confound the West, finds himself in a three-way economic vise — tumbling oil prices, punishing sanctions and now a collapse in his country's currency.

"He really is going to be hit by a perfect storm," said Andrew Kuchins, director of the Russia program at the Center for Strategic & International Studies. "Although much of it is his own making."

The value of the Russian ruble plunged by as much as 20 percent on Tuesday despite a desperate attempt by the central bank to strengthen the currency by jacking up interest rates. The ruble has lost half its value this year against the dollar.

Blame the two other crises that have sprung up on Putin.

One is the unexpected drop in the price of oil, the lifeblood of the Russian economy, to the lowest in five years. The Bank of Russia said Monday that if the decline holds, the Russian economy will shrink more than 4 percent next year — a severe recession.

"The things that bring all czars down are economic problems."

...

Meanwhile, the masses are restless: Two weeks ago, Putin froze salaries for Kremlin employees. Days before that, thousands of Russians marched in Moscow to protest the layoffs of thousands of doctors and plans to close hospitals.

And there were reports on Tuesday of Russians scrambling to buy expensive goods like cars and withdrawing their cash from banks to exchange it for dollars.

"The damage has been short-term so far, meaning it hasn't translated into political unrest since people still have jobs, food, electricity," said Matthew Rojansky, a Russia expert at the director of the Wilson Center's Kennan Institute.

But if the economic mess continues for another year, it could translate into large-scale protests. And at that point all bets are off, Rojansky said.

...

"You can't have growth with 17 percent interest rates. You can't have a thriving economy with oil under $60 a barrel," he told CNBC on Tuesday. "The things that bring all czars down are economic problems."

Putin's one great strength is is his popularity so that may take a hit. And maybe that's the WH ultimate strategy here. But Putin & Co. can do one other thing besides hurt Ukraine and blame them, they can use nationalism to rouse the people behind him and to blame the US and the west to do that.

Technically speaking I think it was just one Czar brought down in 400 years, Nicholas.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Checkmate? Already?

Hard to believe that people think we are at the end game here.

I don't think we're at the end game. But I'm pretty sure the initial "speak loudly, carry no stick" folks were proven very silly.

 

[jamny]

Checkmate? Already?

Hard to believe that people think we are at the end game here.

I don't think we're at the end game. But I'm pretty sure the initial "speak loudly, carry no stick" folks were proven very silly.

Not sure how you can come to that conclusion during an ongoing situation, but ok.

It seems to be a pattern with you.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

"So this was said about Mr. Putin for example three or four months ago," President Obama said. "There was a spate of stories about how he is the chess master outmaneuvering the West and outmaneuvering Mr. Obama and this and that and the other. And right now he is presiding over the collapse of his currency, a major financial crisis, and a huge economic contraction. That doesn't sound like somebody who has rolled me or the United states of America. There is this knee-jerk sense I think on the part of some in the foreign party establishment that shooting first and thinking about it second projects strength. I disagree with that. We have been very firm with respect to those countries that we think are violating international law or are acting against our interest."

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

So supposedly Obama is considering that we send arms to Ukraine.

Tell me if I got that wrong, I heard it on NPR this morning.

This seems like a major mistake. Putin is a lunatic.