Aerial Assault
Footballguy
Duke. And yeah, you were rude to her. And she's one of the classiest posters in the FFA, bar none. Maybe stop being a doosh for just a bit.
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UNC Football and bball LOL (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter pantherclub
- Start date
The Commish
Footballguy
To each his own I suppose. I don't see why it's being dooshy to point out that they were talking about two different things
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
I'm still waiting for someone to show me where I give a #### about NC State at all.Of course it matters....it's the crux of this latest apparent "controversy". RW said he doesn't care much about the scandal and she told him that he did because he makes snide comments about Duke and NCSU. "Spot on" isn't the term I'd use given it was completely off topic and a shot at RW. While what she said may/may not be factual, it has very little, if anything, to do with the question he was responding to. However, I AM guilty of making the distinction. If that's rude and condescending I guess I am guilty as chargedI thought she was pretty spot on in what she said to RW, but that doesn't matter. She was joking with you in her response to what she said to RW, and you come back firing at her in your usual condescending way like she just said something about your mother. You are indeed rude and condescending to people often. I don't know what me being a NCSU fan has to do with how you treat people.I wasn't being rude or condescending to point out that they were talking about two different things. I'm not a perfect person, so when attacked, I do tend to defend myself, but I am rarely, if ever, rude or condescending without provocation. You NCSU guys fit me into whatever little box you like. It doesn't really matter all that much to me. You know very little about me, but keep judging
Hell, even the Duke comments are few and far between. Duke isn't allowed to be criticized in the basketball threads but North Carolina is fair game. These threads crack me up.
Tau837
Footballguy
The Rest Of The ACC Should Be Mad (Until I Start Handing Out Titles)
IMO it is safe to assume that a non-trivial number of players who contributed to those 114 championships should have been ineligible for some of the semesters they were playing, including many key players. So UNC should have been playing without those players and thus would have fallen short of some number of those championships, maybe a large number.
But it's more than just that UNC shouldn't have as many titles. Other teams should have won them. And beyond titles, even the regular season games mattered. There are likely coaches (coaching staffs) out there who got fired but might have retained their jobs had UNC not played their ineligible players. There are coaches (coaching staffs) who probably missed out on performance bonuses tied to wins and championships. The inappropriate winning and championships helped UNC sign players in many sports when they might have gone elsewhere otherwise, thus compounding the effect of UNC's advantage gained through academic fraud. Etc.
A tongue in cheek article, but it does illustrate the potential scope of the impact of UNC's cheating.
IMO it is safe to assume that a non-trivial number of players who contributed to those 114 championships should have been ineligible for some of the semesters they were playing, including many key players. So UNC should have been playing without those players and thus would have fallen short of some number of those championships, maybe a large number.
But it's more than just that UNC shouldn't have as many titles. Other teams should have won them. And beyond titles, even the regular season games mattered. There are likely coaches (coaching staffs) out there who got fired but might have retained their jobs had UNC not played their ineligible players. There are coaches (coaching staffs) who probably missed out on performance bonuses tied to wins and championships. The inappropriate winning and championships helped UNC sign players in many sports when they might have gone elsewhere otherwise, thus compounding the effect of UNC's advantage gained through academic fraud. Etc.
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ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Better hop in the DeLorean...
Mister Martie
Footballguy
Obtuse and condescending - a killer combo.To each his own I suppose. I don't see why it's being dooshy to point out that they were talking about two different things
Archer
Footballguy
Perhaps, but then again you'd never hear this kind of hilarious garbage coming from an engineering school.
UNC students blame racism and heteropatriarchal capitalism for the recent UNC academic scandal
AAABatteries
Footballguy
This is a weird thread but when Ripleys, pantherclub, Commish and RW are doing most of the posting I shouldn't be surprised.
Archer
Footballguy
Feel free to visit another thread if you don't like this thread about the worst cheating program in the history of division 1 sports.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Sammy3469
Footballguy
You're right, it's the Ripley's of the world taking a dump on UNC for no good reason....wait a second....
http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/11/08/4305374_2005-unc-basketball-champs-2-semesters.html?rh=1
maybe not....let's try again...
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-11-10/new-headaches-for-unc-fake-classes-scandal-wont-go-away
errr...one more try...
http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/11/09/4309336/faculty-needs-to-stand-up-for.html
wait a second....maybe this really is all UNC's doing.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
UNC did plenty wrong, but McAdoo, Dan Kane and the editorial staff of the N&O pretty clearly fall into the "Ripleys of the world" category.
RUSF18
Footballguy
I know UNC fans view the N&O as fully leading the witch hunt, but serious question...was anyone digging in on this fake class thing before they were?
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I don't know how it evolved.
Pretty clear they have an agenda, though. Read the Dan Kane article. He tries to catch Roy Williams as "changing stories" based on an offhand comment to a reporter (him) a while back that in truth doesn't show any conflict at all. He's also very obviously obsessed with trying to take down UNC's national championship banners- those two teams constitute a tiny fraction of the scandal but they dominate his reporting. Look at the way he reports it: 35 BOGUS CLASSES (26 of which were totally irrelevant to the 2005 title because the players no longer needed eligibility by the time they were graded, which he doesn't bother to mention)
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Sammy3469
Footballguy
Not if we are to believe McCants when he says he wasn't enrolled in a real class in the Spring 2005 which would have made him automatically ineligible.
But I'm done fighting you're meaningless fight. You can slam Kane and the rest of the world all you want, but he's been right the entire time and you haven't.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
McCants, the guy who refused multiple requests to speak on the record for the Wainstein investigation? Sure, let's believe him. Seems credible.
It's telling that you all can't keep a conversation in a UNC football thread on UNC football or the scandal generally. Pretty clear what's going on- nobody who pretended to care about UNC football or academics actually cared about those things. All they cared about was their petty, bitter, transparent hope that UNC men's basketball would get taken down in the mess. And with nothing new going on there since the Wainstein report was largely exculpatory w/r/t men's basketball they're grasping at straws rather than worrying about the huge ongoing mess that touches football, women's basketball, women's soccer and the academic community.
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drfeelgood
Footballguy
Sammy3469
Footballguy
Tobias, you can pre-order this blockbuster now:
http://www.amazon.com/Cheated-Scandal-Education-Athletes-Big-Time/dp/1612347282/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1415392003&sr=8-8&keywords=cheated
http://www.amazon.com/Cheated-Scandal-Education-Athletes-Big-Time/dp/1612347282/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1415392003&sr=8-8&keywords=cheated
Even Rashad McCants' agrees!
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
LOL. Nothing says "credibility" like turning your quest for academic integrity into a for-profit book release with a blurb from the guy who refused to speak to investigators.
Raleigh area drug stores should stock up on lube and kleenex for the release of that one.
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ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Correct. I'm still laughing at the pathetic desperation of the Wolfpack fanbase. Soon you'll be able to pretend a whole bunch of losses were actually wins. LOL.
Koya
Footballguy
Curious to see where this tip of an iceberg may go - not just for UNC but elsewhere. Especially in light of the lawsuit coming on the back of the NCAA and the issue over payment for student athletes (or in the case of UNC, just athletes).
While I don't doubt this occurs elsewhere, I can't see many places being WORSE than UNC, and again, UNC USED TO be regarded as a bit better than the rest. Rigorous academics. Worthy of respect.
You all can argue all you want about the slanted view of "Wolfpack" fans, but plenty of truly objective folks like me, who used to root for UNC a little just because they were supposed to be a bit "better" have lost all respect. You are no better than, and probably much worse, than most if not all college athletic factories.
Can't change that. Can't even argue it. UNC as a respected institution is tarnished for the forseeable future, and UNC's rep as one of the "more respected" programs because of their academics is just destroyed, perhaps forever.
While I don't doubt this occurs elsewhere, I can't see many places being WORSE than UNC, and again, UNC USED TO be regarded as a bit better than the rest. Rigorous academics. Worthy of respect.
You all can argue all you want about the slanted view of "Wolfpack" fans, but plenty of truly objective folks like me, who used to root for UNC a little just because they were supposed to be a bit "better" have lost all respect. You are no better than, and probably much worse, than most if not all college athletic factories.
Can't change that. Can't even argue it. UNC as a respected institution is tarnished for the forseeable future, and UNC's rep as one of the "more respected" programs because of their academics is just destroyed, perhaps forever.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Either you don't know what "unprecedented" means or you're the most naive college sports fan in the United States. Even this fine scholar-athlete can see that.I see Tobias is back toabout this stuff again.
I couldn't care less about vacating wins. I want to see acknowledgement that UNC cheated at an unprecedented level, including in the basketball program, and I want to see them punished accordingly.
Not holding my breath.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
Indeed, partisan baiting UNC is lots of fun; who doesn't like to see the arrogant and successful Heels get taken down a whole bunch of notches? But the real lasting impact of this is how it affects college sports in general, with legal challenge after legal challenge working its way through the system. The history of this will probably read something like "The systemic corruption was first brought to public attention by a series of ugly disclosures at the University of North Carolina back in the teens and within a few years similar stories began cropping up at virtually every other institution with a big time athletic program."
But it's great that the UNC snots are getting it first. I hope the beatdown is unrelenting. And I hope your school is next. (general You, not you specifically, Koya)
Koya
Footballguy
My college is DIII... last I checked, I had to take real classes there, and they were hardly all easy.
Now, my sports allegiance is Syracuse, and I'd be shocked if none of this did happen there. But, SU, while having some very good programs, has never had it's fan base push how academically superior they are nor how they are a school that's above reproach.
I do agree with your general point... especially because if it CAN happen to a school that used to be so well respected, it has to be going on everywhere to some degree.
RUSF18
Footballguy
I must be naive. Steered towards easy majors, tutors completing papers and taking tests for athletes, not needing to show up for classes...yes, I think all that happens everywhere.
Fake classes? No. I don't think that happens everywhere.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Every big-time school has ####### fans who think their university and/or athletic programs occupy the moral high ground for one reason or another. It's absurd to say this is something particular to UNC. I bet if you scoured all of the ACC sports threads in the history of the FFA you wouldn't find more than a small handful of posts about academic or moral superiority from UNC fans.
This argument that fans are making that they're enjoying the scandal because the fan base claimed the moral high ground is just a paper-thin excuse for run of the mill schadenfreude. Just own it, folks. Unless you're a Kentucky or UConn fan, UNC is either a rival of your favorite team or has had a lot more success than your team has over the last 20 years, or in the case of NC State, both. And that's why you're so eager to see the basketball program get caught up in this, even though all the evidence says they're on the periphery. There's nothing wrong what that, it's totally normal sports fan behavior.
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roadkill1292
Footballguy
roadkill1292
Footballguy
I have a bigger target in mind than your crappy school which happened to win a lot of basketball games. Winning a lot of basketball games is only important to the small-minded.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
You and I are on the same page here, my friend. As we usually are when it comes to the whole college sports charade.
Koya
Footballguy
Except I have never held animosity toward UNC. In fact, it had been quite the opposite.
Which is why it's so disappointing to see.
Granted, there is not the holier than thou fan base that Duke has, but on a personal level, this is far less schadenfreude and far more personal disappointment as one of those "better" programs is no better, and quite possibly worse than, many/most of the rest.
drfeelgood
Footballguy
UNC's is worse than Dukes by a large margin, but you have always had some beef with Duke.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I love everything about this. I hope the irony was intentional- assuming it was, bravo.
drfeelgood
Footballguy
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TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Tar Heel. But as an informed and objective observer of the fans and the program, I'm sure you already knew that. Otherwise, thanks! I've found them to be a generally pleasant and reasonable bunch. Good-looking, too.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
:whoosh:Sammy3469 said:
drfeelgood
Footballguy
My sister and mother are both UNC alumni, and my sister was a student athlete there, plus I grew up in North Carolina so I am informed of the fans and the program. Thankfully they aren't condescending and arrogant like you, but they are very aware that a large part of their fanbase is.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Can you show me some examples of this arrogance and condescension? Other than in response to the same from you, that is.
Koya
Footballguy
Up here (and for that most places I've been), Duke fans are far more vocal and honestly, insufferable. Now, coming from the NY area definitely helps paint that picture.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Honest question: You don't think they're going to be punished accordingly? What is punished accordingly? I expect vacated wins/titles (which most of us agree is stupid) and then some PSU/SMU level sanctions for the near future.I see Tobias is back to
I couldn't care less about vacating wins. I want to see acknowledgement that UNC cheated at an unprecedented level, including in the basketball program, and I want to see them punished accordingly.
Not holding my breath.
What do you think is going to happen?
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
JMO but I think you'd likely get the same result in 49 of 50 states. Not surprisingly, almost all of the people complaining about UNC fans come from the one state where it wouldn't be the case.
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ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
I think "fake classes" happen at most big time schools. I think a whole department with a department head involved and a non-professor doesn't happen at all big time schools. That's a little outrageous.
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