Understanding You Are The Product For Social Media Companies (1 Viewer)

[Joe Bryant]

We talked about this recently with Facebook Groups. 

And this is sort of a convergence of worlds for me lately as I just finished Johann Hari's Lost Connections excellent book where he talks a good bit about how digital "connections" are no substitute for real connections and how social media can have some strongly negative effects on people. 

If you know me, you know I'm a frequent user of Social Media but I'm not a fan. I have strong concerns over how the platforms exploit psychological and social vulnerabilities to drive profits.

Brett McKay has an interesting article here on understanding social media and better using it as a tool. And the podcast link in the article to his talk with Cal Newport is helpful. I don't condemn social media. I think it can be used for good things. But I think it's important to understand the business and realize you and your targeted demographics and tendencies are the real product.

McKay suggests using newsletters and RSS feeds instead of relying on the social media companies to spoon feed you what they want you to see. And what the advertisers have paid for you to see. To be fair, he's in the business, like I am, of providing content in newsletters and online. But his point is the customer should take control over what they see, not depend on a social media / data harvesting company to feed you. 

What do you think?

 

[Jaysus]

Jeff Rosenstock is my favorite.  He pretty much wrote his Festival Song about this, and I love it.  Just thought I would share.

 

[Joe Bryant]

And to McKay's suggestion for using RSS readers instead of relying on the social media company's algorithm or ad sales to drive what you see, do you guys have strategies you like there?

 

[Slapdash]

And to McKay's suggestion for using RSS readers instead of relying on the social media company's algorithm or ad sales to drive what you see, do you guys have strategies you like there?

Well, unfortunately, RSS feeds have seen a huge decline ever sense Google Reader was shut down. Both in usability of them and the content allowed on them (many bloggers started putting their conent in RSS behind a link).  The fragmentation of RSS readers/content also limits the ability to discuss the content with other readers and the authors of content, something that Twitter excels at.

Used to be a huge fan of RSS, but now I hardly open the app for it

 

[Jaysus]

RSS readers/content also limits the ability to discuss the content with other readers and the authors of content, something that Twitter excels at.

I agree with McKay's take on that... that's the best part about Feedly

That being said, clicking though to the content gives you that option. 

 

[Joe Bryant]

Well, unfortunately, RSS feeds have seen a huge decline ever sense Google Reader was shut down. Both in usability of them and the content allowed on them (many bloggers started putting their conent in RSS behind a link).  The fragmentation of RSS readers/content also limits the ability to discuss the content with other readers and the authors of content, something that Twitter excels at.

Used to be a huge fan of RSS, but now I hardly open the app for it

Agreed. They've seen a large decline. McKay says he used Reader and then suggests these in his article. Do you have experience with them?

Feedly. This is what I use. They have a free version and a paid version. 

Feedreader

Feeder

The Old Reader

Inoreader. Inoreader has a more visual feel to it. Sort of like Flipboard.

 

[Jaysus]

I use Feedly for my aggregator and desktop viewer as it is a free service - their mobile app is not that great (and may not be free) so I use a 3rd party app there (Newsfold) that uses Feedly as a source. 

When Google Reader died, Feedly stepped up with a simple way to import my feeds, so I have stuck with them.

 

[Ilov80s]

And to McKay's suggestion for using RSS readers instead of relying on the social media company's algorithm or ad sales to drive what you see, do you guys have strategies you like there?

I mostly only use Twitter. I am on IG but it's mostly looking at fit women, checking out beer releases and seeing pictures of friends. On Twitter, there's not that many ads and I pay no attention to them. I choose who I follow so I feel it's just as catered as an RSS feed. I don't really understand the idea that I am relying on Twitter to tell me or not tell me anything. 

 

[Slapdash]

Agreed. They've seen a large decline. McKay says he used Reader and then suggests these in his article. Do you have experience with them?

I like Inoreader the most as it has the most consistent experience on desktop and mobile.  But, still, I barely use it these days.  Most of my usage is to download things to read offline on a flight.  Just seems like most of the people I would follow on there (economic bloggers) are more active on Twitter/other platforms.

 

[Slapdash]

I agree with McKay's take on that... that's the best part about Feedly

That being said, clicking though to the content gives you that option. 

You can do that with Inoreader too, but the community on that platform just isn't big enough anymore IMO.  Anyways, just my two cents

 

[Ralph Furley]

My personal belief is FB needs to go the route of Netflix and become subscription based, or at a minimum, offer this feature to turn off advertisers.  We (users) are unquestionably the target, and in this model the primary organization (FB) is inherently conflicted due to the obvious need of how to monetize their business model.  Absence of “pay for play” forces them to monetize us, therefor their real customers are advertisers.  As long as users look for “free” access we will continue to be monetized and will come with all the unintended consequences.

Any business that puts themselves between the true users, and their need to make money, is inherently at risk for abuse, and ultimately failure.

 

[Joe Bryant]

My friend responded with this article detailing the death of RSS.

I'll be honest, I find most of the writers points lacking. He calls the lack of RSS feeds to recommend more feeds you might like "it's greatest failing today"? 

You find them the same way you find good podcasts. You ask people. You read article on how to find good info. 

This actually is a huge point. The idea that now we've become helpless to find new things to read without the parent company telling us what to read next? A parent who obviously has interests in manipulating the psychological vulnerabilities of it's customers. 

That's pathetic. 

https://techcrunch.com/2018/04/07/rss-is-undead/

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

interesting article  

 

[NutterButter]

I prefer just reading magazines.   My library has a nice app that has a bunch of them for free.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/03/24/the-anxious-generation-qa-00147880

https://www.wsj.com/arts-culture/film/25-years-later-were-all-trapped-in-the-matrix-3f3a3aea

 

[belljr]

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/03/24/the-anxious-generation-qa-00147880

https://www.wsj.com/arts-culture/film/25-years-later-were-all-trapped-in-the-matrix-3f3a3aea

While I agree with this - I also find it interesting - that my own personal anecdote is my kid suffered from things listed here and she was not on social media and barely is now....

 

[Andy Dufresne]

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/03/24/the-anxious-generation-qa-00147880

https://www.wsj.com/arts-culture/film/25-years-later-were-all-trapped-in-the-matrix-3f3a3aea

While I agree with this - I also find it interesting - that my own personal anecdote is my kid suffered from things listed here and she was not on social media and barely is now....

Could be the Catch 22 of the situation we're in - being on social media leads to feelings of depression and anxiety but if everyone is on it and you're not then it makes you depressed and anxious.

IMO those are symptoms of being a teen, but they're exacerbated greatly by SM.

 

[belljr]

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/03/24/the-anxious-generation-qa-00147880

https://www.wsj.com/arts-culture/film/25-years-later-were-all-trapped-in-the-matrix-3f3a3aea

While I agree with this - I also find it interesting - that my own personal anecdote is my kid suffered from things listed here and she was not on social media and barely is now....

Could be the Catch 22 of the situation we're in - being on social media leads to feelings of depression and anxiety but if everyone is on it and you're not then it makes you depressed and anxious.

IMO those are symptoms of being a teen, but they're exacerbated greatly by SM.

agree. I know "now" my kid was bullied for a couple years and didn't realize how that increased her "issues". I chalked it up to being a kid/teen and told her as much but it definitely was a bit "more" than regular teen crap.

 

[beer 30]

Just finished up this Rogan podcast with Jonathan Haidt on this subject. Some interesting thoughts regarding shielding children from social media as long as possible.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Just finished up this Rogan podcast with Jonathan Haidt on this subject. Some interesting thoughts regarding shielding children from social media as long as possible.

Super interesting. I know he's making the rounds with his new book coming out and I was thinking about Haidt yesterday.

This is interesting.

First He Came for Cancel Culture. Now He Wants to Cancel Smartphones​

The N.Y.U. professor Jonathan Haidt became a favorite in Silicon Valley for his work on what he called the “coddling” of young people. Now, he has an idea for fixing Gen Z.

NYTimes gifted article you should be able to read without a paywall.

 

[Joe Bryant]

@beer 30 can you give us the highlights from the Rogan interview?

 

[SWC]

if you are online and not paying for a product then you are the product take that to the bank bromigos

 

[Runkle]

Could be the Catch 22 of the situation we're in - being on social media leads to feelings of depression and anxiety but if everyone is on it and you're not then it makes you depressed and anxious.

IMO those are symptoms of being a teen, but they're exacerbated greatly by SM.

I believe there was a recent Freakanomics podcast episode which discussed the idea of the Social Media Trap, it is a strange product in that not using it "costs" more than using it.

 

[beer 30]

@beer 30 can you give us the highlights from the Rogan interview?

Yea, it's pretty much him pimping his new book but the thing I really took from it is the absolute damage social media is causing the youth, especially young girls. Below kind of summarizes the crux of the discussion.

At the start of the 2010s, rates of teenage mental illness took a sharp upward turn, and they have been rising ever since. Among US college students, diagnoses of depression and anxiety more than doubled between 2010 and 2018. More worrying still, in the decade to 2020 the number of emergency room visits for self-harm rose by 188% among teenage girls in the US and 48% among boys. The suicide rate for younger adolescents also increased, by 167% among girls and 91% among boys. A similar trend has been observed in the UK and many other western countries. The American social psychologist Jonathan Haidt believes this mental health crisis has been driven by the mass adoption of smartphones, along with the advent of social media and addictive online gaming. He calls it “the Great Rewiring of Childhood”. Quote from The Guardian.

He then outlines the 4 steps he (Haidt) thinks would assist in turning some of these numbers around. I don't recall all of them but one was phone free schools. I think he also proposed not allowing kids on the internet until they are 16, something like that. He makes some points that hit home with me being the dad of two girls (well women now). My oldest missed the social media craze by a few years, had a phone but it wasn't a huge deal when she got it. My youngest (by 5 years) hit smack in the middle of the worst of it and it definitely caused issues. She went to school and got a psychology degree to better understand some of the stuff she went through. Got a great head on her shoulders now and is fine but there are so many kids out there that are caught up in the matrix and suffer big time in social settings. And you can't pry a damn phone out of their hands, it's a serious addiction.

 

[Joe Bryant]

discussed the idea of the Social Media Trap, it is a strange product in that not using it "costs" more than using it.

Thank you. That's to be determined though. I think some of the costs of "missing out" may actually not be as high as the costs of using it for some people. I think that's what we're starting to see.

 

[Rich Conway]

discussed the idea of the Social Media Trap, it is a strange product in that not using it "costs" more than using it.

Thank you. That's to be determined though. I think some of the costs of "missing out" may actually not be as high as the costs of using it for some people. I think that's what we're starting to see.

I'm not sure how one would measure such "costs". It's going to be different for everyone and you can only see one of the possible outcomes for any given person. For example, I had the same policies for each of my kids, yet the results were different. Moreover, there's no way for me to see what the outcome would have been for any of the kids had I gone with a different policy.

 

[Mister CIA]

if you are online and not paying for a product then you are the product take that to the bank bromigos

Ha, my rule is, if I didn't read the terms of services (license and/or subscription agreements) and any related privacy policies with a fine-tooth comb, I am the product, whether I paid for it or not.

 

[GroveDiesel]

I may have mentioned it at some point before on the board, but an absolute stomach churning moment for me happens about 5-6 years ago.

I was driving a car full of teenage girls to an event for our church’s youth group and they started talking about Instagram and it made me nauseous. They all knew exactly which post of theirs had the most likes. They knew which poses generated more likes than other poses. They knew what types of outfits got more likes. They knew exactly how many followers they had and who followed them or unfollowed them. They knew who in their wider friend group had the most followers and who got the most likes. There was zero question that “likes” are absolutely social currency and it heavily influenced them all. Their self worth was being impacted in significant ways. It greatly saddened me. I’m so grateful I didn’t grow up in an era of social media and heartbroken that my daughter is (though she’s not as plugged into social media as most are).

 

[rockaction]

Ugh. That's terrible to hear, GroveDiesel. That's not what we should want as a society, and it doesn't surprise that young girls are that way. I completely believe it and it makes sense. Doesn't seem like only an anecdotal truth, either.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Could be the Catch 22 of the situation we're in - being on social media leads to feelings of depression and anxiety but if everyone is on it and you're not then it makes you depressed and anxious.

IMO those are symptoms of being a teen, but they're exacerbated greatly by SM.

I believe there was a recent Freakanomics podcast episode which discussed the idea of the Social Media Trap, it is a strange product in that not using it "costs" more than using it.

I guess I can see that for teenagers +/- young adults, but do you believe the same applies to people beyond their mid-twenties?

 

[FairWarning]

Could be the Catch 22 of the situation we're in - being on social media leads to feelings of depression and anxiety but if everyone is on it and you're not then it makes you depressed and anxious.

IMO those are symptoms of being a teen, but they're exacerbated greatly by SM.

I believe there was a recent Freakanomics podcast episode which discussed the idea of the Social Media Trap, it is a strange product in that not using it "costs" more than using it.

I guess I can see that for teenagers +/- young adults, but do you believe the same applies to people beyond their mid-twenties?

For some, most definitely. There is a market for people buying followers so they can have more influence.