Better outcomes, longer lifespans, less deaths at birth, longer success with cancer treatments, better results with hearth surgery...the list is endless. Google is your friend
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Universal Health Care - Let's make this happen (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Sabertooth
- Start date
MaxThreshold
Footballguy
What is the population of Cuba and slovenia again? What is the US population? The only talking points being pushed here are yours.
Chaka
Footballguy
MT, where are you coming up with this? 57th in infant mortality MT, 57th. That's us.
The CIA, yes that CIA, calls that the benchmark for measuring the quality of health care. It is verifiably false say that these other 56 countries have lesser outcomes.
Chaka
Footballguy
Who cares? How is that relevant?What is the population of Cuba and slovenia again? What is the US population? The only talking points being pushed here are yours.
How does having a healthy tax base hurt us as opposed to having an unhealthy one?
themeanmachine
Footballguy
It seems to me that our ranges of health outcomes is far greater than most other industrialized nations. At the top, we have the best health care in the world, as long as you can afford it and/or have great insurance. At the bottom, it's far worse than comparable nations.
And from my understanding (no first-hand knowledge here), the notion of "waiting 2 years to see a doctor" is a myth in general, but waits for specialists or some surgeries can be far greater in countries with universal health care vs. Americans with good insurance.
So it seems to me that going to universal health care requires a little bit worse (yet still very good) care at the top so that everyone can have basic needs met. Many will never, ever accept this (those with good insurance). But it's about our willingness to accept a sacrifice at the top for the good of the nation as a whole. Doesn't seem like we have a good track record in this regard.
And from my understanding (no first-hand knowledge here), the notion of "waiting 2 years to see a doctor" is a myth in general, but waits for specialists or some surgeries can be far greater in countries with universal health care vs. Americans with good insurance.
So it seems to me that going to universal health care requires a little bit worse (yet still very good) care at the top so that everyone can have basic needs met. Many will never, ever accept this (those with good insurance). But it's about our willingness to accept a sacrifice at the top for the good of the nation as a whole. Doesn't seem like we have a good track record in this regard.
Typical of people like him he only cares about outcomes for rich white people...and those are pretty good
MaxThreshold
Footballguy
OH boy, here we go with this tripe again. "If you don't agree with me you're racist, bigot, evil *******!"
We really going to play this game? Haven't you guys learned anything?
For a guy that is completely ignoring the fact that the USA pretty much sucks at everything when it comes to health care it seems like that can be the only rational reasoning behind it.
Chaka
Footballguy
No killface, it isn't. It was an unnecessary statement that failed to advance the conversation. MT is actually a pretty smart guy but he doesn't seem to be in the mood to provide a well reasoned argument against UHC.
I find his verifiably false statements to be a little frustrating as well but it is no call to start making attacks on his character.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
It has come up a 100 times in these discussions. They dismiss the rankings by saying it's because we have so many poor and uneducated people that ruin our otherwise exceptional health comes. That is exactly what i was insinuating...
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Chaka
Footballguy
Did he say that I'm this thread? I must have missed that post.
BnB made a comment along those lines, I responded to it and am hoping to hear more from him about that.
To be fair he didn't but as you probably are aware this discussion has been had many times on the board and it always ends in the same dismissal. The world's health systems are a mess because of universal access and the great USA rankings aren't poor, we are just a country filled with poor uneducated people. I feel like we just had this whole argument a couple of months ago
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When someone here suggests that Cuba should be our model and I read about their recently achieved medical firsts in Cuba, I have my doubts. I suspect our access to soda pizza ? food drugs and booze might have more to do with our health than our doctors
Chaka
Footballguy
That was going to be my next point about our 57th/43rd rankings.
And it definitely hurts us but let's not act like virtually every single country ahead of us in these rankings doesn't have access similar bad food choices.
CoffeeTime
Footballguy
NutterButter
Footballguy
I think you're looking at this all wrong. You need to look at it from the perspective of what we get for what we pay.
NutterButter
Footballguy
Chaka
Footballguy
NutterButter
Footballguy
NutterButter
Footballguy
See. That's one less person that we need to pay for.Sure under Obamacare, but Trumpcare is going to fix that.
Chaka
Footballguy
Winner! The Harvard study I read put it at 62%.
Care to guess what % of those declaring bankruptcy due to medical expenses had health insurance?
roadkill1292
Footballguy
If our people are too stupid to use better access to health care to improve their health and our government is incapable of administering a universal plan anyway, we're gonna have to rethink this whole "exceptionalism" idea at some point.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
To be clear, you're saying my tax rate will be 40% but I won't have to pay over $300/month for health insurance and no more co-pays? And everyone will have health insurance?
Deal.
Chicago Hooligan
Footballguy
1) Sabotage something
2) Say it's broken
3) Get rid of it
This is like page 1 of their playbook.
Chicago Hooligan
Footballguy
Now to avoid this side of the board for another year.
jonessed
Footballguy
Sabertooth
Footballguy
In my rural area, and RN I know says that almost 50% of kids born here are addicted to opiates. I thought that sounded high but others have confirmed.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Sure you do. The assertion was government is totally incompetent. I simply pointed out the hypocrisy of somebody stating that and yet wanted to further fund the military. If they are incompetent, the last thing we need to do is give them more money to kill people with.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
The government handles tons of stuff in a fine fashion -- at least finer for the citizenry then the privatized industry when they get their hooks in.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
Sabertooth
Footballguy
And that's it isn't it? People act like we have some kind of good system now. We don't.
jonessed
Footballguy
Life expectancy is largely due to accidental deaths (car accidents, drugs, guns).
We have different infant mortality metrics than most nations. We count any baby born. Most nations don't do that. Poor teen mothers also don't always get proper care or even know they are pregnant.
Neither has anything to do with the quality of care for the majority of people. One is cultural and the other is limited access by some (many are eligible for Medicaid, but don't apply).
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MaxThreshold
Footballguy
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Sabertooth
Footballguy
It's coming whether you want it or not. Sorry snowflake.
MaxThreshold
Footballguy
Snowflakes need the gubment to take care of them and control all aspects of their lives - that would be you.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
zoonation
Footballguy
Good lord you are ignorant. It is comical reading your nonsensical, ill informed bull####. It is like a faucet that never turns off.
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
Health insurance companies are pretty much out of the insurance business already. Their business is mostly to provide administrative services to "self funded" employers (most large and increasingly mid size employers including the government) and government programs (Medicaid MSO, Medicare Advantage (Part C)). There is a reason why you hear about the losses and exits on the exchanges (where they sell "insurance") and the conflicting stories about the gravy train of the ACA (Medicaid expansion), We could move to a single payer model and still keep the health insurance industry very happy. If one believes the government is not capable of managing health care as well as private players then keeping the insurance companies around for these tasks would be the "best of both worlds". It wouldn't really be true that adding the overhead of a profiting middle man with their additional administrative overhead (including marketing) isn't making things cheaper, but we can simply pay the more we are paying today to get there faster keeping the health insurance companies around for a while. We can achieve the cost savings of cutting out the profit driven factors later.
The average tax burden is around 30% for just income based taxes (i.e. ignores sales and property taxes). The average American then spends 10% of income on health insurance premiums and deductibles (and while this growth has slowed down, these costs are still growing faster than wages). So other than "sticker shock" for the ignorant, how is this an issue?
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Sabertooth
Footballguy
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Where in the hell did I say the kid should suffer? I'm saying universal healthcare isn't going to keep the dumb mom from taking drugs. She's still a moron with or without the healthcare.
If you're going to project other thoughts here, at least quote me accurately. I've said 100 times I'm all for healthcare for everyone. I don't agree necessarily with the Dem's just taxing the F out of the middle class to achieve it but that's a different topic.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
I didn't realize you wanted healthcare for everyone.
