US economy thread (6 Viewers)

[dkp993]

100%. And it’s my biggest problem with the viewpoint expressed by Sparky (and those of this generation). It’s a viewpoint with the luxury of being built on reaping the benefits of the generations of hard work before them. Now, all generations are, but the difference, imo, is the lack of appreciation for what it took to afford the current viewpoint.

Lack of appreciation for what, a decade-long housing crisis? Unafforable childcare costs? The chaotic mess that is the US healthcare system?

There's plenty good about America, but there's plenty that can be improved too. With all due respect, many millennials and Gen Z are economically ****ed in the long-term - personally I don't revere our Boomer (and, frankly, throw Gen X in there too) predecessors. There have been some great men and women in American history, who have helped build America into what it is today, won world wars, fought for labor rights, fought for civil rights, things of that nature. But by and large, those great people were not Boomers or Gen X.

I never once said or implied that everything was perfect or the generations before this don’t make massive mistakes. That’s in no way the discussion that was being had. Work ethic was and is the discussion.

 

[dkp993]

were sold a version of "work ethic" that exists here but nowhere else sans communist China maybe? The younger generations have been exposed to the rest of the world in a way that neither of those other two groups were.

You mean that “work ethic” that built this country into the economic powerhouse and world leader that it is? Maybe, just maybe, work ethic is a foundational element of success.

Our economic position in the world is pretty much from two events. The first being the end of WWII and how the world viewed us because of our participation. The second being when the USSR was dissolved in the 90s. Feels like we are talking about two very different things, so I think the answer to your question is "no. that's not what I'm talking about".

I'm speaking more of what they were sold as to what success looked like individually which was pretty materialistic and lacking in the "life" part of the equation. It's not a negative. It helped with success in many ways. It also allowed people to fail in many ways depending on how "success" is/was defined as well. That definition is being rethought now by a lot of people.

I couldn’t disagree with your first paragraph more but don’t have the time right now to respond fully.

To your second paragraph. It depends on what we’re talking about. Individually or as a society. I’m speaking to the societal element. Individually “success” has an extremely broad definition. I have a friend who to him success means living on a beach in Costa Rica surfing all day and living off of 20$ a week. I have another that it’s about being a wealthy as possible (even at the sacrifice to his own health and wellbeing). But for a society it can’t function like that. A society filled with friend number one starves out.*
For a society to be successful, hard work is a fundamental element.

* to be clear I’m also not advocating for life like friend number 2

The initial comment was from the personal perspective as was the second. So we are talking about two different things. I don't espoused the ability to speak to what "success" looks like for hundreds of millions of people. I don't even know how you'd begin that convo.

Sure and your last sentence is fair statement. that’s probably more a philosophical discussion honestly. But you did bring up work ethic from a societal standpoint, (“were sold a version of "work ethic" that exists here but nowhere else sans communist China maybe?”) which is what I took exception too and was addressing.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

were sold a version of "work ethic" that exists here but nowhere else sans communist China maybe? The younger generations have been exposed to the rest of the world in a way that neither of those other two groups were.

You mean that “work ethic” that built this country into the economic powerhouse and world leader that it is? Maybe, just maybe, work ethic is a foundational element of success.

Our economic position in the world is pretty much from two events. The first being the end of WWII and how the world viewed us because of our participation. The second being when the USSR was dissolved in the 90s. Feels like we are talking about two very different things, so I think the answer to your question is "no. that's not what I'm talking about".

I'm speaking more of what they were sold as to what success looked like individually which was pretty materialistic and lacking in the "life" part of the equation. It's not a negative. It helped with success in many ways. It also allowed people to fail in many ways depending on how "success" is/was defined as well. That definition is being rethought now by a lot of people.

I couldn’t disagree with your first paragraph more but don’t have the time right now to respond fully.

To your second paragraph. It depends on what we’re talking about. Individually or as a society. I’m speaking to the societal element. Individually “success” has an extremely broad definition. I have a friend who to him success means living on a beach in Costa Rica surfing all day and living off of 20$ a week. I have another that it’s about being a wealthy as possible (even at the sacrifice to his own health and wellbeing). But for a society it can’t function like that. A society filled with friend number one starves out.*
For a society to be successful, hard work is a fundamental element.

* to be clear I’m also not advocating for life like friend number 2

The initial comment was from the personal perspective as was the second. So we are talking about two different things. I don't espoused the ability to speak to what "success" looks like for hundreds of millions of people. I don't even know how you'd begin that convo.

Sure and your last sentence is fair statement. that’s probably more a philosophical discussion honestly. But you did bring up work ethic from a societal standpoint, (“were sold a version of "work ethic" that exists here but nowhere else sans communist China maybe?”) which is what I took exception too and was addressing.

I don't know how wide spread the narrative I've been taught by people from those eras so I can't say of that is widespread enough to be societal or not. I didn't mean the comment from a societal perspective. I know that current day China is very much societal. We can see it today. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Stoneworker]

Millennials face a unique combination of economic, social, and financial challenges that previous generations did not encounter to the same extent.

The boomer generation came into adulthood during a 70's and 80's era of double digit inflation, double digit unemployment, mortgage rates that peaked at 20%, waiting in line for hours for gasoline, a divided country due to Vietnam, the omnipresent threat of nuclear annihilation, etc.

So the argument that what millennials et. al. are facing is some unique combination of adversity is pretty weak

 

[dkp993]

Millennials face a unique combination of economic, social, and financial challenges that previous generations did not encounter to the same extent.

The boomer generation came into adulthood during a 70's and 80's era of double digit inflation, double digit unemployment, mortgage rates that peaked at 20%, waiting in line for hours for gasoline, a divided country due to Vietnam, the omnipresent threat of nuclear annihilation, etc.

So the argument that what millennials et. al. are facing is some unique combination of adversity is pretty weak

In that same vain, every generation has faced huge hurdles, today’s generation is not special in that regard. But hard work and perseverance has largely been what was gotten us through it.

 

[Steve Tasker]

I never once said or implied that everything was perfect or the generations before this don’t make massive mistakes. That’s in no way the discussion that was being had. Work ethic was and is the discussion.

Sure, but the difference is that previous generations had far more to gain from "work ethic" than millennials and Gen Z do. To make the work ethic point is to deny/obfuscate/ignore/whatever the fact that the deck has been stacked against millennials and Gen Z much differently than it was for prior generations.

Millennials are projected to be the first generation to be worse-off, economically, than their parents. I'm a business owner, and I employ plenty of Gen X, millennial, and Gen Z employees - the idea that Gen X employees (collectively) have a higher work ethic than either millennials or Gen Z is laughable to me. I can't really speak for Boomers in that regard, because the handful of Boomers who work for me are largely closing on on retirement and on reduced schedules.

 

[Stoneworker]

Millennials face a unique combination of economic, social, and financial challenges that previous generations did not encounter to the same extent.

The boomer generation came into adulthood during a 70's and 80's era of double digit inflation, double digit unemployment, mortgage rates that peaked at 20%, waiting in line for hours for gasoline, a divided country due to Vietnam, the omnipresent threat of nuclear annihilation, etc.

So the argument that what millennials et. al. are facing is some unique combination of adversity is pretty weak

In that same vain, every generation has faced huge hurdles, today’s generation is not special in that regard. But hard work and perseverance has largely been what was gotten us through it.

Yep. And personally I've got no issues with the "work/life balance" philosophy that seems so prevalent. Go for it.

But it's simply unrealistic to assume there is no price to pay for that balance in terms of losing technological, economic, and geopolitical dominance. It's what underpins the standard of living that all generations are addicted to.

Somehow that tradeoff seems completely lost on many people.

 

[dkp993]

I never once said or implied that everything was perfect or the generations before this don’t make massive mistakes. That’s in no way the discussion that was being had. Work ethic was and is the discussion.

Sure, but the difference is that previous generations had far more to gain from "work ethic" than millennials and Gen Z do. To make the work ethic point is to deny/obfuscate/ignore/whatever the fact that the deck has been stacked against millennials and Gen Z much differently than it was for prior generations.

Millennials are projected to be the first generation to be worse-off, economically, than their parents. I'm a business owner, and I employ plenty of Gen X, millennial, and Gen Z employees - the idea that Gen X employees (collectively) have a higher work ethic than either millennials or Gen Z is laughable to me. I can't really speak for Boomers in that regard, because the handful of Boomers who work for me are largely closing on on retirement and on reduced schedules.

I fundamentally disagree with your opinions of the workforce. I have run and owned businesses for the past 25 yrs in the service industry. Early to mid 20’s workforces are the bulk of all I’ve ever worked with. I currently oversee 35 venues with close to 1000 employees of said workforce. The shift since COVID has been titanic, and it was moving that direction prior too as well just slower. Like the idea of a shift is laughable to you, it’s laughable to me that to think that it hasn’t.

 

[MTskibum]

I never once said or implied that everything was perfect or the generations before this don’t make massive mistakes. That’s in no way the discussion that was being had. Work ethic was and is the discussion.

Sure, but the difference is that previous generations had far more to gain from "work ethic" than millennials and Gen Z do. To make the work ethic point is to deny/obfuscate/ignore/whatever the fact that the deck has been stacked against millennials and Gen Z much differently than it was for prior generations.

Millennials are projected to be the first generation to be worse-off, economically, than their parents. I'm a business owner, and I employ plenty of Gen X, millennial, and Gen Z employees - the idea that Gen X employees (collectively) have a higher work ethic than either millennials or Gen Z is laughable to me. I can't really speak for Boomers in that regard, because the handful of Boomers who work for me are largely closing on on retirement and on reduced schedules.

I fundamentally disagree with your opinions of the workforce. I have run and owned businesses for the past 25 yrs in the service industry. Early to mid 20’s workforces are the bulk of all I’ve ever worked with. I currently oversee 35 venues with close to 1000 employees of said workforce. The shift since COVID has been titanic, and it was moving that direction prior too as well just slower. Like the idea of a shift is laughable to you, it’s laughable to me that to think that it hasn’t.

But you are employing low skill individuals it sounds like. I work in industry/tech and I don't see a drop off in young people's performance.

 

[dkp993]

I never once said or implied that everything was perfect or the generations before this don’t make massive mistakes. That’s in no way the discussion that was being had. Work ethic was and is the discussion.

Sure, but the difference is that previous generations had far more to gain from "work ethic" than millennials and Gen Z do. To make the work ethic point is to deny/obfuscate/ignore/whatever the fact that the deck has been stacked against millennials and Gen Z much differently than it was for prior generations.

Millennials are projected to be the first generation to be worse-off, economically, than their parents. I'm a business owner, and I employ plenty of Gen X, millennial, and Gen Z employees - the idea that Gen X employees (collectively) have a higher work ethic than either millennials or Gen Z is laughable to me. I can't really speak for Boomers in that regard, because the handful of Boomers who work for me are largely closing on on retirement and on reduced schedules.

I fundamentally disagree with your opinions of the workforce. I have run and owned businesses for the past 25 yrs in the service industry. Early to mid 20’s workforces are the bulk of all I’ve ever worked with. I currently oversee 35 venues with close to 1000 employees of said workforce. The shift since COVID has been titanic, and it was moving that direction prior too as well just slower. Like the idea of a shift is laughable to you, it’s laughable to me that to think that it hasn’t.

But you are employing low skill individuals it sounds like. I work in industry/tech and I don't see a drop off in young people's performance.

Entry level first time jobs (servers, bartenders, event sales, etc etc etc), yes I am. I also believe that segment is a great reflection or barometer of work ethic. And the difference in that time frame 25+ years is stark.

 

[Steve Tasker]

I fundamentally disagree with your opinions of the workforce. I have run and owned businesses for the past 25 yrs in the service industry. Early to mid 20’s workforces are the bulk of all I’ve ever worked with. I currently oversee 35 venues with close to 1000 employees of said workforce. The shift since COVID has been titanic, and it was moving that direction prior too as well just slower. Like the idea of a shift is laughable to you, it’s laughable to me that to think that it hasn’t.

agree to disagree. Truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

 

[dkp993]

I fundamentally disagree with your opinions of the workforce. I have run and owned businesses for the past 25 yrs in the service industry. Early to mid 20’s workforces are the bulk of all I’ve ever worked with. I currently oversee 35 venues with close to 1000 employees of said workforce. The shift since COVID has been titanic, and it was moving that direction prior too as well just slower. Like the idea of a shift is laughable to you, it’s laughable to me that to think that it hasn’t.

agree to disagree. Truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

As is the way.

 

[Max Power]

I never once said or implied that everything was perfect or the generations before this don’t make massive mistakes. That’s in no way the discussion that was being had. Work ethic was and is the discussion.

Sure, but the difference is that previous generations had far more to gain from "work ethic" than millennials and Gen Z do. To make the work ethic point is to deny/obfuscate/ignore/whatever the fact that the deck has been stacked against millennials and Gen Z much differently than it was for prior generations.

Millennials are projected to be the first generation to be worse-off, economically, than their parents. I'm a business owner, and I employ plenty of Gen X, millennial, and Gen Z employees - the idea that Gen X employees (collectively) have a higher work ethic than either millennials or Gen Z is laughable to me. I can't really speak for Boomers in that regard, because the handful of Boomers who work for me are largely closing on on retirement and on reduced schedules.

I fundamentally disagree with your opinions of the workforce. I have run and owned businesses for the past 25 yrs in the service industry. Early to mid 20’s workforces are the bulk of all I’ve ever worked with. I currently oversee 35 venues with close to 1000 employees of said workforce. The shift since COVID has been titanic, and it was moving that direction prior too as well just slower. Like the idea of a shift is laughable to you, it’s laughable to me that to think that it hasn’t.

But you are employing low skill individuals it sounds like. I work in industry/tech and I don't see a drop off in young people's performance.

Entry level first time jobs (servers, bartenders, event sales, etc etc etc), yes I am. I also believe that segment is a great reflection or barometer of work ethic. And the difference in that time frame 25+ years is stark.

I work with and train a lot of junior enlisted military (typical age range is 18-24) and feel the same way. Part of the shift is on the military being softer than it used to be and lowering recruiting standards, but its also on these kids who feel entitled to things (promotions, praise, rewards) while not putting in the same level of work their predecessors did.

 

[dkp993]

I work with and train a lot of junior enlisted military (typical age range is 18-24) and feel the same way. Part of the shift is on the military being softer than it used to be and lowering recruiting standards, but its also on these kids who feel entitled to things (promotions, praise, rewards) while not putting in the same level of work their predecessors did.

100%. I don’t want to really expand on my thoughts about it as it will likely come across as old man (at 49) get off my lawn type stuff but…. The company I’m an executive in I have been a part of building for the past 12 years. 12 venues to 80+ and growing fast. Our entire leadership team is (and has been for a while) grappling with how to deal with the changing dynamics. It’s very real, and very difficult.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

My dad always preaches "outcomes over outputs"

Reading some of the comments here are making me understand that concept better and better.

 

[MAC_32]

I've been speaking to the dynamics being discussed in here my entire adult life. I don't think most people listen, it's the american way, but the sword fight above is not a new thing, it's been developing for years...decades. The deck has been stacked against younger generations and it is only going to get worse. Not sure I can expand upon that without getting political, so I'll leave it at that, but the get off my lawn crowd pointing their fingers at yutes have misdirected hostility.

 

[dkp993]

but the get off my lawn crowd pointing their fingers at yutes have misdirected hostility.

Hostility? So it’s hostile now to point out what I’m seeing and experiencing day in and day out in the workplace? Interesting.

 

[MAC_32]

but the get off my lawn crowd pointing their fingers at yutes have misdirected hostility.

Hostility? So it’s hostile now to point out what I’m seeing and experiencing day in and day out in the workplace? Interesting.

I think you missed the key word

 

[dkp993]

but the get off my lawn crowd pointing their fingers at yutes have misdirected hostility.

Hostility? So it’s hostile now to point out what I’m seeing and experiencing day in and day out in the workplace? Interesting.

I think you missed the key word

Misdirected? If so hostility is still there, just pointed the wrong way or at the wrong thing. Unless of course I’m missing something, to which I’m happy to hear where I’ve misunderstood.

 

[MAC_32]

Misdirected?

Bullseye, our elders created this environment. More to say, but again, can't here.

 

[dkp993]

Misdirected?

Bullseye, our elders created this environment. More to say, but again, can't here.

Interesting . Well if I’m following you, I will say if I were to be placing “blame” and feel any hostility towards a group, I’d place that blame/hostility squarely on my generation (X).

 

[MAC_32]

Misdirected?

Bullseye, our elders created this environment. More to say, but again, can't here.

Interesting . Well if I’m following you, I will say if I were to be placing “blame” and feel any hostility towards a group, I’d place that blame/hostility squarely on my generation (X).

Boomers too. I'd argue moreso due to subjects we can't talk about here, but gen X is responsible for the current crop of young adults. Small humans haven't changed, only those that raise them.

 

[dkp993]

Misdirected?

Bullseye, our elders created this environment. More to say, but again, can't here.

Interesting . Well if I’m following you, I will say if I were to be placing “blame” and feel any hostility towards a group, I’d place that blame/hostility squarely on my generation (X).

Boomers too. I'd argue moreso due to subjects we can't talk about here, but gen X is responsible for the current crop of young adults. Small humans haven't changed, only those that raise them.

We’re simpatico.

 

[Tau837]

As a Gen X guy, this is my reaction to people thinking about moving to other countries: be careful what you wish for and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

 

[Tau837]

Sure, but the difference is that previous generations had far more to gain from "work ethic" than millennials and Gen Z do. To make the work ethic point is to deny/obfuscate/ignore/whatever the fact that the deck has been stacked against millennials and Gen Z much differently than it was for prior generations.

Completely disagree with the notion that work ethic doesn't or shouldn't matter for Gen Z or millenials. I am 55 and totally belong to that Gen X work ethic, and it paid off for me. I realize that doesn't happen for everyone. But it only happened for me because I worked my *** off, and that can still be true for others, regardless of what generation they are in. I am a VP in a business unit that has ~3200 employees. I have witnessed employees of all ages rise through the ranks of our business based on their work achievements. It can happen for any employee if they are talented and work hard.

If for any given individual, that person doesn't want to work hard, then sure, find another culture where that works.

 

[Max Power]

I don't have any hostility towards young adults. There are still plenty of impressive people entering the workforce. On a macro level, I stand by what I said.

Work life balance is a real thing that I sort of appreciate the younger folks driving that conversation. I supported the idea of the 32 hour work week, but also acknowledge that idea would likely result in smaller salaries. That won't help the affordability crisis they are going through.

End of the day I feel you have to make personal sacrifices for professional success. Those who choose not are going to have a tougher time long term.

 

[MAC_32]

Completely disagree with the notion that work ethic doesn't or shouldn't matter for Gen Z or millenials.

I don't think you took the message as intended. It's not that work ethic shouldn't matter, it's that some of us have a greater appreciation for why that is. I'm a self-identifying xennial, I accept the good parts of each generation, and no responsibility for the bad, like any good red blooded american. Like you, I worked my *** off, to get to where I am right now. That said, it's a simple math equation for me to figure out that if I were born 10...15 years later, and executed the same plan, I would be in a significantly worse position than I am right now.

This does aptly represent our divide and why that chasm has only widened over the last several decades. Like those that came before us, older generations struggle immensely putting themselves in the shoes of yutes, and viewing the world from their lens.

 

[the moops]

As a Gen X guy, this is my reaction to people thinking about moving to other countries: be careful what you wish for and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Why so much hostility towards someone who may want to just go live somewhere else? I don't get it

 

[BassNBrew]

Completely disagree with the notion that work ethic doesn't or shouldn't matter for Gen Z or millenials.

I don't think you took the message as intended. It's not that work ethic shouldn't matter, it's that some of us have a greater appreciation for why that is. I'm a self-identifying xennial, I accept the good parts of each generation, and no responsibility for the bad, like any good red blooded american. Like you, I worked my *** off, to get to where I am right now. That said, it's a simple math equation for me to figure out that if I were born 10...15 years later, and executed the same plan, I would be in a significantly worse position than I am right now.

This does aptly represent our divide and why that chasm has only widened over the last several decades. Like those that came before us, older generations struggle immensely putting themselves in the shoes of yutes, and viewing the world from their lens.

Agree with this statement, but executing the same plan would be the biggest reason. The current young generation has more access to opportunity becausse more information is available. The plan options are exponentially more than older generations. Between social media like LinkedIN, the internet, and now AI the access to opportunity is limitless. It's significantly easier to improve your income today than it ever has been.

 

[Nugget]

Atlanta Fed model is predicting negative Q1 GDP - https://www.atlantafed.org/cqer/research/gdpnow

CNBC Article

On Friday, the Commerce Department reported that personal spending fell 0.2% in January, missing the Dow Jones estimate for a 0.1% increase. Adjusted for inflation, spending fell 0.5%. As a result, that shaved a full percentage point off the expected contribution to GDP, down to 1.3%, according to the GDPNow calculation.

At the same time, the contribution of net exports tumbled from -0.41 percentage point to -3.7 percentage points.

The combination of data and its impact on the growth outlook comes with surveys showing decreasing consumer confidence and worries about rising inflation. The Commerce Department also reported that an inflation measure the Fed favors moved lower during the month, as the core personal consumption expenditures price index fell to 2.6%, down 0.3 percentage point from December.

 

[eoMMan]

I don't have any hostility towards young adults. There are still plenty of impressive people entering the workforce. On a macro level, I stand by what I said.

Work life balance is a real thing that I sort of appreciate the younger folks driving that conversation. I supported the idea of the 32 hour work week, but also acknowledge that idea would likely result in smaller salaries. That won't help the affordability crisis they are going through.

End of the day I feel you have to make personal sacrifices for professional success. Those who choose not are going to have a tougher time long term.

Yup. I'm actually thinking about quitting my job because of work life balance. It's definitely important.

 

[MAC_32]

There seems to be a disconnect between...

The current young generation has more access to opportunity becausse more information is available. The plan options are exponentially more than older generations. Between social media like LinkedIN, the internet, and now AI the access to opportunity is limitless. It's significantly easier to improve your income today than it ever has been.

This.

I fundamentally disagree with your opinions of the workforce. I have run and owned businesses for the past 25 yrs in the service industry. Early to mid 20’s workforces are the bulk of all I’ve ever worked with. I currently oversee 35 venues with close to 1000 employees of said workforce. The shift since COVID has been titanic, and it was moving that direction prior too as well just slower. Like the idea of a shift is laughable to you, it’s laughable to me that to think that it hasn’t.

And this.

The older generation's hostility is misdirected when the subject matter is young low-income earning workers. Expecting them to not be unmotivated is quite simply foolish. The game's been setup so that those that strive to make it need to be high earners early in their working lives and that's not going to happen doing things like high-volume food service. It's on us olds to adapt, not them, because it's on the olds that came before us that created this environment in the first place.

Stop blaming yutes.

 

[BassNBrew]

There seems to be a disconnect between...

The current young generation has more access to opportunity becausse more information is available. The plan options are exponentially more than older generations. Between social media like LinkedIN, the internet, and now AI the access to opportunity is limitless. It's significantly easier to improve your income today than it ever has been.

This.

I fundamentally disagree with your opinions of the workforce. I have run and owned businesses for the past 25 yrs in the service industry. Early to mid 20’s workforces are the bulk of all I’ve ever worked with. I currently oversee 35 venues with close to 1000 employees of said workforce. The shift since COVID has been titanic, and it was moving that direction prior too as well just slower. Like the idea of a shift is laughable to you, it’s laughable to me that to think that it hasn’t.

And this.

The older generation's hostility is misdirected when the subject matter is young low-income earning workers. Expecting them to not be unmotivated is quite simply foolish. The game's been setup so that those that strive to make it need to be high earners early in their working lives and that's not going to happen doing things like high-volume food service. It's on us olds to adapt, not them, because it's on the olds that came before us that created this environment in the first place.

Stop blaming yutes.

So is it the older generation’s fault or addicting the young generation to streaming services, granite countertops, and craft beers or the younger generations fault for consuming those items?

 

[MAC_32]

There seems to be a disconnect between...

The current young generation has more access to opportunity becausse more information is available. The plan options are exponentially more than older generations. Between social media like LinkedIN, the internet, and now AI the access to opportunity is limitless. It's significantly easier to improve your income today than it ever has been.

This.

I fundamentally disagree with your opinions of the workforce. I have run and owned businesses for the past 25 yrs in the service industry. Early to mid 20’s workforces are the bulk of all I’ve ever worked with. I currently oversee 35 venues with close to 1000 employees of said workforce. The shift since COVID has been titanic, and it was moving that direction prior too as well just slower. Like the idea of a shift is laughable to you, it’s laughable to me that to think that it hasn’t.

And this.

The older generation's hostility is misdirected when the subject matter is young low-income earning workers. Expecting them to not be unmotivated is quite simply foolish. The game's been setup so that those that strive to make it need to be high earners early in their working lives and that's not going to happen doing things like high-volume food service. It's on us olds to adapt, not them, because it's on the olds that came before us that created this environment in the first place.

Stop blaming yutes.

So is it the older generation’s fault or addicting the young generation to streaming services, granite countertops, and craft beers or the younger generations fault for consuming those items?

Well, 2 of those things were popularized by gen x and olds have the same addiction issues with social media as yutes. I am sensing an emotional reaction based on anecdotal experiences and preconceived bias because the data doesn't say what you want it to say.

 

[BassNBrew]

There seems to be a disconnect between...

The current young generation has more access to opportunity becausse more information is available. The plan options are exponentially more than older generations. Between social media like LinkedIN, the internet, and now AI the access to opportunity is limitless. It's significantly easier to improve your income today than it ever has been.

This.

I fundamentally disagree with your opinions of the workforce. I have run and owned businesses for the past 25 yrs in the service industry. Early to mid 20’s workforces are the bulk of all I’ve ever worked with. I currently oversee 35 venues with close to 1000 employees of said workforce. The shift since COVID has been titanic, and it was moving that direction prior too as well just slower. Like the idea of a shift is laughable to you, it’s laughable to me that to think that it hasn’t.

And this.

The older generation's hostility is misdirected when the subject matter is young low-income earning workers. Expecting them to not be unmotivated is quite simply foolish. The game's been setup so that those that strive to make it need to be high earners early in their working lives and that's not going to happen doing things like high-volume food service. It's on us olds to adapt, not them, because it's on the olds that came before us that created this environment in the first place.

Stop blaming yutes.

So is it the older generation’s fault or addicting the young generation to streaming services, granite countertops, and craft beers or the younger generations fault for consuming those items?

Well, 2 of those things were popularized by gen x and olds have the same addiction issues with social media as yutes. I am sensing an emotional reaction based on anecdotal experiences and preconceived bias because the data doesn't say what you want it to say.

What data?

I see it everyday. Homes we would have been thrilled to live in sit because they aren’t fancy. Heck, I had to put 20% down to get a sniff and then Pay 7+%. I could make an argument that the 2010+ generation had it best for wealth opportunities. Obviously tough now but I suspect the current generation will have opportunities as I expect a reset.

 

[Max Power]

@MAC_32 Are you trying to say the lack of motivation in the younger workforce is due to the current economic state which is the fault of the generations before them and therefore their lack of trying/caring shouldn't fall on them?

 

[dkp993]

@MAC_32 Are you trying to say the lack of motivation in the younger workforce is due to the current economic state which is the fault of the generations before them and therefore their lack of trying/caring shouldn't fall on them?

I won’t speak for him. But my opinion is it’s due to helicopter parenting and a participation trophy mindset. GenX has been so worried about protecting our children from any strife or struggle we have not done a very good job preparing them for the real world.

 

[Max Power]

@MAC_32 Are you trying to say the lack of motivation in the younger workforce is due to the current economic state which is the fault of the generations before them and therefore their lack of trying/caring shouldn't fall on them?

I won’t speak for him. But my opinion is it’s due to helicopter parenting and a participation trophy mindset. GenX has been so worried about protecting our children from any strife or struggle we have not done a very good job preparing them for the real world.

That's a fair take and I agree with that.

I also believe the hesitancy to assimilate into the workplace falls on the individual.

 

[dkp993]

@MAC_32 Are you trying to say the lack of motivation in the younger workforce is due to the current economic state which is the fault of the generations before them and therefore their lack of trying/caring shouldn't fall on them?

I won’t speak for him. But my opinion is it’s due to helicopter parenting and a participation trophy mindset. GenX has been so worried about protecting our children from any strife or struggle we have not done a very good job preparing them for the real world.

That's a fair take and I agree with that.

I also believe the hesitancy to assimilate into the workplace falls on the individual.

Couldn’t agree more. At some point, regardless of how we all are raised, we’ve got to own our own path.

 

[Ilov80s]

@MAC_32 Are you trying to say the lack of motivation in the younger workforce is due to the current economic state which is the fault of the generations before them and therefore their lack of trying/caring shouldn't fall on them?

I won’t speak for him. But my opinion is it’s due to helicopter parenting and a participation trophy mindset. GenX has been so worried about protecting our children from any strife or struggle we have not done a very good job preparing them for the real world.

That's a fair take and I agree with that.

I also believe the hesitancy to assimilate into the workplace falls on the individual.

Couldn’t agree more. At some point, regardless of how we all are raised, we’ve got to own our own path.

Sure but if a majority of people are raised with a certain mindset it’s going to shift the whole generation in a certain way. It becomes unrealistic when we expect a majority to break from the mindset and direction they were given growing up.

 

[dkp993]

@MAC_32 Are you trying to say the lack of motivation in the younger workforce is due to the current economic state which is the fault of the generations before them and therefore their lack of trying/caring shouldn't fall on them?

I won’t speak for him. But my opinion is it’s due to helicopter parenting and a participation trophy mindset. GenX has been so worried about protecting our children from any strife or struggle we have not done a very good job preparing them for the real world.

That's a fair take and I agree with that.

I also believe the hesitancy to assimilate into the workplace falls on the individual.

Couldn’t agree more. At some point, regardless of how we all are raised, we’ve got to own our own path.

Sure but if a majority of people are raised with a certain mindset it’s going to shift the whole generation in a certain way. It becomes unrealistic when we expect a majority to break from the mindset and direction they were given growing up.

Mostly agree. Just more on the side of it being challenging vs unrealistic, but I hear ya.

 

[Ilov80s]

@MAC_32 Are you trying to say the lack of motivation in the younger workforce is due to the current economic state which is the fault of the generations before them and therefore their lack of trying/caring shouldn't fall on them?

I won’t speak for him. But my opinion is it’s due to helicopter parenting and a participation trophy mindset. GenX has been so worried about protecting our children from any strife or struggle we have not done a very good job preparing them for the real world.

That's a fair take and I agree with that.

I also believe the hesitancy to assimilate into the workplace falls on the individual.

Couldn’t agree more. At some point, regardless of how we all are raised, we’ve got to own our own path.

Sure but if a majority of people are raised with a certain mindset it’s going to shift the whole generation in a certain way. It becomes unrealistic when we expect a majority to break from the mindset and direction they were given growing up.

Mostly agree. Just more on the side of it being challenging vs unrealistic, but I hear ya.

I agree with that but the more challenging anything is, the less people that are able to do it. On the individual level yes anyone can overcome their upbringing but it works different on a macro level.

 

[dkp993]

@MAC_32 Are you trying to say the lack of motivation in the younger workforce is due to the current economic state which is the fault of the generations before them and therefore their lack of trying/caring shouldn't fall on them?

I won’t speak for him. But my opinion is it’s due to helicopter parenting and a participation trophy mindset. GenX has been so worried about protecting our children from any strife or struggle we have not done a very good job preparing them for the real world.

That's a fair take and I agree with that.

I also believe the hesitancy to assimilate into the workplace falls on the individual.

Couldn’t agree more. At some point, regardless of how we all are raised, we’ve got to own our own path.

Sure but if a majority of people are raised with a certain mindset it’s going to shift the whole generation in a certain way. It becomes unrealistic when we expect a majority to break from the mindset and direction they were given growing up.

Mostly agree. Just more on the side of it being challenging vs unrealistic, but I hear ya.

I agree with that but the more challenging anything is, the less people that are able to do it. On the individual level yes anyone can overcome their upbringing but it works different on a macro level.

Sure. But that also requires employers to not acquiesce and expect less. We need to not be lowering the bar of expectations. We change it by not rewarding poor performance or expecting less from less. Now to be clear, I’m not demanding 60 hour work weeks and no life. Far from it, but you don’t get a raise just because you showed up to work two days on time this week.

 

[fatness]

The NY Times solicited input from business owners about how tariffs will affect or are affecting their businesses, got almost 100 replies, and published much of what they were told.

Several themes emerged. American businesses, not Chinese suppliers, were shouldering the cost of tariffs. Many companies said they would have to raise prices to offset the expense if they had not already. Some spoke of a feeling of business paralysis: They were afraid to make plans amid the unpredictable stream of new tariffs, fearing the risk of moving production out of China since no country seemed immune. Turning to domestic alternatives was usually not viable because they were more expensive, the quality was inferior and there were fewer options. Finally, completely reinventing their supply chain would be a huge undertaking for the companies, requiring time and expense they cannot easily spare.

However, the 20-year-old company has little choice but to stay in China. Silk manufacturing facilities exist in other countries, such as Sri Lanka, India, South Korea and Thailand, but “the best machinery, the best expertise, the ability to produce quality goods at a good price is located in China,” Mr. Keefe said.

“It’s very fine to say we’re going to put these tariffs in place to bring jobs back to America. That assumes that America has the capability to make your product, and, more important, it assumes that it has the interest in making that product.”

 

[Ilov80s]

@MAC_32 Are you trying to say the lack of motivation in the younger workforce is due to the current economic state which is the fault of the generations before them and therefore their lack of trying/caring shouldn't fall on them?

I won’t speak for him. But my opinion is it’s due to helicopter parenting and a participation trophy mindset. GenX has been so worried about protecting our children from any strife or struggle we have not done a very good job preparing them for the real world.

That's a fair take and I agree with that.

I also believe the hesitancy to assimilate into the workplace falls on the individual.

Couldn’t agree more. At some point, regardless of how we all are raised, we’ve got to own our own path.

Sure but if a majority of people are raised with a certain mindset it’s going to shift the whole generation in a certain way. It becomes unrealistic when we expect a majority to break from the mindset and direction they were given growing up.

Mostly agree. Just more on the side of it being challenging vs unrealistic, but I hear ya.

I agree with that but the more challenging anything is, the less people that are able to do it. On the individual level yes anyone can overcome their upbringing but it works different on a macro level.

Sure. But that also requires employers to not acquiesce and expect less. We need to not be lowering the bar of expectations. We change it by not rewarding poor performance or expecting less from less. Now to be clear, I’m not demanding 60 hour work weeks and no life. Far from it, but you don’t get a raise just because you showed up to work two days on time this week.

Sounds a lot like what we are dealing with and trying to figure out at school.

 

[dkp993]

@MAC_32 Are you trying to say the lack of motivation in the younger workforce is due to the current economic state which is the fault of the generations before them and therefore their lack of trying/caring shouldn't fall on them?

I won’t speak for him. But my opinion is it’s due to helicopter parenting and a participation trophy mindset. GenX has been so worried about protecting our children from any strife or struggle we have not done a very good job preparing them for the real world.

That's a fair take and I agree with that.

I also believe the hesitancy to assimilate into the workplace falls on the individual.

Couldn’t agree more. At some point, regardless of how we all are raised, we’ve got to own our own path.

Sure but if a majority of people are raised with a certain mindset it’s going to shift the whole generation in a certain way. It becomes unrealistic when we expect a majority to break from the mindset and direction they were given growing up.

Mostly agree. Just more on the side of it being challenging vs unrealistic, but I hear ya.

I agree with that but the more challenging anything is, the less people that are able to do it. On the individual level yes anyone can overcome their upbringing but it works different on a macro level.

Sure. But that also requires employers to not acquiesce and expect less. We need to not be lowering the bar of expectations. We change it by not rewarding poor performance or expecting less from less. Now to be clear, I’m not demanding 60 hour work weeks and no life. Far from it, but you don’t get a raise just because you showed up to work two days on time this week.

Sounds a lot like what we are dealing with and trying to figure out at school.

And me at work. But that’s how we change it. At school and in the workplace.

Though, imo you have the MUCH harder job. I have so much respect for teachers but don’t envy your profession right now at all.

 

[Tau837]

As a Gen X guy, this is my reaction to people thinking about moving to other countries: be careful what you wish for and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Why so much hostility towards someone who may want to just go live somewhere else? I don't get it

“So much hostility?” Overreact much?

Be careful what you wish for is a warning that the grass may not actually be greener elsewhere, that life might actually be better in the US than someone considering this realizes.

Don’t let the door hit you on the way out is saying if you don’t want to be here, then leave, we will be fine without you.

 

[Ridgeback]

As a Gen X guy, this is my reaction to people thinking about moving to other countries: be careful what you wish for and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Why so much hostility towards someone who may want to just go live somewhere else? I don't get it

“So much hostility?” Overreact much?

Be careful what you wish for is a warning that the grass may not actually be greener elsewhere, that life might actually be better in the US than someone considering this realizes.

Don’t let the door hit you on the way out is saying if you don’t want to be here, then leave, we will be fine without you.

I don't think a lot of people who haven't left this country realize just how much better or worse it can be abroad.

From my experience, it's a much nicer, less stressful day to day living elsewhere.

Many have a 'murica first' mentality without realizing the alternatives. The jingoistic drum beat that's grown louder only intensifies this.

 

[Tau837]

That said, it's a simple math equation for me to figure out that if I were born 10...15 years later, and executed the same plan, I would be in a significantly worse position than I am right now.

I work with a lot of very talented and successful people who are 10-15 years younger than me. So I'm not really seeing your point here.

The current young generation has more access to opportunity becausse more information is available. The plan options are exponentially more than older generations. Between social media like LinkedIN, the internet, and now AI the access to opportunity is limitless. It's significantly easier to improve your income today than it ever has been.

 

[Tau837]

Our economic position in the world is pretty much from two events. The first being the end of WWII and how the world viewed us because of our participation. The second being when the USSR was dissolved in the 90s.

I don't agree with this characterization. I am under the impression the U.S. became a superpower when the Spanish-American war ended with the Treaty of Paris in 1898.

The economic power of the US comes from a lot of things that have nothing to do with WWII or the dissolution of the USSR. A few examples:

• Large, diverse, skilled, and productive population
• Land mass and abundance of natural resources
• Well-developed transportation infrastructure
• Extensive access to the Atlantic and Pacific oceans and the Gulf
• Culture of innovation