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US Men's National Team (6 Viewers)
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El Floppo
Footballguy
All this coach talk... Panama has looked genuinely organized and consistently giving a ####. I think I heard the Paramount team mention how much the country has taken to the coach- Christensen?- and it's seems likely true for the players. Their play on field shows guys who understand what they're supposed to do, and are set up to compete- not just hold on- against the likes of the US and Mexico (only games I've watched of theirs this cycle), even with far less talent, and are willing to bust their asses to make the extra run and win second balls... something the US seemed incapable of doing on Sunday.
TripItUp
Footballguy
TripItUp
Footballguy
gianmarco
Footballguy
El Floppo
Footballguy
so he's inked in, then.
If Jedi and Swag are out, Dest has to slide to the LB, Yedlin or Shaq to the RB.
Hopefully LDLT for Swag and not Lletget.
If Nips doesn't go... and he very well might start... it's Weah and Aaronson with Pepi up top.
I mean... hell- that's a lineup that SHOULD be beating any of the teams this trio of games.
Wondering if/when we see Hoppe. Would like to know what the deal is with him and why GGG isn't using him even for a minute after he looked so capable in the GC.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
I'm not sure. GGG rolled the dice with Pepi in Honduras. I think that with newer guys like Richards and LDT, he might be inclined to save a start for the last game in a window just to maximize the practice time and chance to integrate. Zimm has been very good, so maybe he starts again, but I think we'll probably see Richards/Miles. That's a very quick set of centerbacks that (in theory) should let the FBs play a bit freer (with Adams dropping down in between at times).
Like Andy, I have a sneaking suspicion we might see Steffen.
Like Andy, I have a sneaking suspicion we might see Steffen.
TripItUp
Footballguy
I love his effort. If our most talented players played as hard as he does, we could better cover up GGG's warts.
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El Floppo
Footballguy
they look far more organized.
but again, if those US players didn't collectively play like ### vs Panama, I think we'd be having a different conversation.
ChiefD
Footballguy
Very good points.
The only thing I would say is all of that is a process that has been built for this moment and for the next cycle. So now it's go time. Put up or shut up time.
And so far I don't see a team that fully understand that the time is NOW. I say this all the time with my kids, especially with my son who runs cross country:
"Time to go. GO GO GO....FINISH THIS THING STRONG!"
It's tme to finish this strong USA.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
They lost to El Salvador (and apparently looked listless in midfield in doing it). They drew with CR at home (a game I understand they had more chances in). They've been held scoreless in 3 of their 5 games. Let's see how they do away to Canada.
TripItUp
Footballguy
I think it's clear GGG manages on "principle" given the way he handled Swag...clearly he is sending a message to Hoppe that his actions have consequences and that he needs to fall in line.
Of course, I believe GGG has serious leadership issues and Hoppe should be playing. As of now, GGG's decisions have been a monstrous detriment to the team.
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gianmarco
Footballguy
There were 4 starters from both games: Turner, Zimmerman, Musah, and Arriola.
I agree there's a chance we see Steffen for Turner. I'm fine either way here. I still think Turner played well but he was shakier than his usual self.
CB isn't a spot that is as taxing as the others and, from a fatigue standpoint, Zimmerman should be fine to go. He still looked good last game fitness wise. I think pairing him with Miles again is just fine but wouldn't mind seeing Richards get the start here over Zimmerman and wouldn't be completely unexpected other than it just doesn't seem like GGG rates Richards as high as some of us here.
Arriola looked completely gassed last game. He came off at the 45 minute mark. If he gets a start, I'll be shocked. I wouldn't be surprised to see him come on later, though.
Musah looked fine and was also subbed at 45 minutes. He should be able to start again given that and he should.
I think Weah should get the start for Arriola although I don't know if he's played on the right for GGG. If Weston can't go, I hope it's LDLT. If Robinson can't go, then slide Dest over and go with either Yedlin or Moore. I'm fine with either. Prefer Moore to start, Yedlin to come on if we get the lead.
Lletget is the one guy that has no place starting tomorrow despite his limited usage.
I agree there's a chance we see Steffen for Turner. I'm fine either way here. I still think Turner played well but he was shakier than his usual self.
CB isn't a spot that is as taxing as the others and, from a fatigue standpoint, Zimmerman should be fine to go. He still looked good last game fitness wise. I think pairing him with Miles again is just fine but wouldn't mind seeing Richards get the start here over Zimmerman and wouldn't be completely unexpected other than it just doesn't seem like GGG rates Richards as high as some of us here.
Arriola looked completely gassed last game. He came off at the 45 minute mark. If he gets a start, I'll be shocked. I wouldn't be surprised to see him come on later, though.
Musah looked fine and was also subbed at 45 minutes. He should be able to start again given that and he should.
I think Weah should get the start for Arriola although I don't know if he's played on the right for GGG. If Weston can't go, I hope it's LDLT. If Robinson can't go, then slide Dest over and go with either Yedlin or Moore. I'm fine with either. Prefer Moore to start, Yedlin to come on if we get the lead.
Lletget is the one guy that has no place starting tomorrow despite his limited usage.
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AAABatteries
Footballguy
gianmarco
Footballguy
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I agree we are in a good spot but I am not sure I agree we are better off than Canada going into tomorrow's games.
Canada has already completed both away legs to Mexico and US. IMO, they have an easier schedule the rest of the way than we do, which might make up for the one point different in the standings.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
I just find it hard to believe that the problem is that they don't understand the significance or the urgency. Gregg said all the right things after Jamaica. He said that if they went to Panama thinking they could give anything less, they'd get their asses kicked. The players all said the right things. And then they went and laid an egg. Which we've seen other Concacaf teams do.
The US's road record in the Hexagonal is 8-11-11 all time. Mexico's is 8-12-10. Costa Rica's is 8-7-15. No team has ever won more than two road games in a Hexagonal. Not the US. Not Mexico. Not Costa Rica. It's not just a US problem.
El Floppo
Footballguy
I don't see how Canada isn't in a better spot than the US right now.
Away- huge draws against the hardest opponents in US and Mex, and disappointing draw vs Hon (still a point and not a lost)
Home- win vs El Sal and disappointing draw vs Hon.
While they've had a couple of disappointments not winning against lesser opponents, they are still adding points every game and have 2 in hand away where 0 was expected.
The US has dropped points at home and away in games that should have been won.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Zimm's legs cramped up terribly at the end of the game. They worked on him the whole time they were dealing with Acosta's head and then decided to tell him to just stay up top and hope for the best. To say he ran gingerly in injury time would be an understatement.
I think there is a chance he sits against CR and we may get the Robinson, Richards pairing.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
I don't think Gregg is making a point with Hoppe. And I don't think he calls him up if he didn't think he could use him. After all, he left Konrad at home to take him. I do think that Gregg trusts other players more. And I get it. Hoppe could easily get his chance this game. I remain enamored of Tim Weah's talent, but the fact is that he has 1 goal in 14 appearances for the USMNT. If Arriola had that record of production, he'd be in Siberia with the team. I think Weah is much more talented than Hoppe. I see a lot of holes in Hoppe's game and was probably less in love with him in the Gold Cup than most fans.
But he does work hard. And he did have some production. And, of course, he isn't a winger. So maybe he's a change if Pepi is ineffective. He's kind of the anti-Pepi in that I don't think he's a very efficient player, but he does get on the ball. Whereas Pepi is low volume (which is fine in the right system).
But he does work hard. And he did have some production. And, of course, he isn't a winger. So maybe he's a change if Pepi is ineffective. He's kind of the anti-Pepi in that I don't think he's a very efficient player, but he does get on the ball. Whereas Pepi is low volume (which is fine in the right system).
gianmarco
Footballguy
I missed that (honestly I tuned out for much of the end of the game out of frustration). If that's the case, then yeah, I would agree and hope so. I still think, at this point, R&R is our CB pairing of the future. My only hesitation is why GGG seems so hesitant to play Richards. He's played a grand total of 72 minutes in all of 2021 for the USMNT. That doesn't make any sense to me and has gotten to expect he won't play.
encaitar
Footballguy
I think Canada and Panama are the 3rd and 4th best teams in CONCACAF this time around. I'd prefer to see them tie both games they play as that steals 2 potential points from those games that won't then be in the equation.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Canada hasn't gotten 3 points on the road yet and have also dropped points at home to a team that appears to be near the bottom of the group. Again, let's see if they get three at home to Panama.
At the very least, the US is in no worse shape than Canada. Right now, Canada is in a playoff and the US qualifies.
encaitar
Footballguy
As of the day before ELS, they were in negotiations with GGG on a huge contract extension and rightfully so based on the past year of results he had gotten. Pretty hard to reverse course so quickly because of one poor game.
blend
Footballguy
I don't like this... https://twitter.com/CJSmith91/status/1447983392985915392?s=20
Sources tell me Ricardo Pepi's camp are in agreement on personal terms with Wolfsburg & are looking to close a deal with #DTID #USMNT Haven't been able to reach his agent to confirm yet
I'm not sure who that source is though. Not sure i'd want Pepi at Wolfsburg with their recent history with US players.
Sources tell me Ricardo Pepi's camp are in agreement on personal terms with Wolfsburg & are looking to close a deal with #DTID #USMNT Haven't been able to reach his agent to confirm yet
I'm not sure who that source is though. Not sure i'd want Pepi at Wolfsburg with their recent history with US players.
TripItUp
Footballguy
Yeah, I was probably in the minority of those that were not surprised by the El Salvador result given my lack of trust in GGG...everybody knows I haven't liked him from the beginning. I'm just ahead of others on him I guess. Not a compliment to me, just saying I would have been quicker to pull the trigger based on other factors that I have viewed as red flags that most others did not.
I'm glad to hear that influencers like Holden are on board with a regime change if we don't get a result vs. Costa Rica. I can't handle another missed WC...it feels like GGG is literally stealing one of life's greatest enjoyments from me.(watching the US in the WC)
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Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Here are the players I'm reasonably certain will start:
Pepi
Aaronson
Adams
M. Robinson
Dest
If healthy, you add Swag and Jedi to that list.
Because McKenzie didn't cover himself in glory, I'd imagine we get Richards if Zimm seems to have load issues. If Swag starts, I think the impulse would be to just stay with Musah as that MF 3 has worked well. But LDT wouldn't shock me.
If Jedi can't go, I imagine you see Dest on the left and Yedlin or Moore on the right. Maybe Moore as I think he was the least of the problems on Sunday and Yedlin didn't exactly light it up off the bench.
Turner/Steffen is a complete toss-up for me. Turner's yips weren't that big a problem for me, because no matter how much we say Steffen is good with his feet, he tends to make one of those boners every game too. I did think Turner showed some vulnerability on commanding his area on those corners. But I also think Turner is, and always will be, a better shot stopper than Steffen. He just moves his feet better. I'd feel less vulnerable to a Couva-esque thunderbastard with Turner in goal. For as epic a shot as that was for T&T, the fact is that Tim Howard's feet were in cement for that shot. Turner showed against Jamaica that he could get his feet right and get over to cover a similarly epic blast (that nevertheless missed the target, but Turner had it covered).
Pepi
Aaronson
Adams
M. Robinson
Dest
If healthy, you add Swag and Jedi to that list.
Because McKenzie didn't cover himself in glory, I'd imagine we get Richards if Zimm seems to have load issues. If Swag starts, I think the impulse would be to just stay with Musah as that MF 3 has worked well. But LDT wouldn't shock me.
If Jedi can't go, I imagine you see Dest on the left and Yedlin or Moore on the right. Maybe Moore as I think he was the least of the problems on Sunday and Yedlin didn't exactly light it up off the bench.
Turner/Steffen is a complete toss-up for me. Turner's yips weren't that big a problem for me, because no matter how much we say Steffen is good with his feet, he tends to make one of those boners every game too. I did think Turner showed some vulnerability on commanding his area on those corners. But I also think Turner is, and always will be, a better shot stopper than Steffen. He just moves his feet better. I'd feel less vulnerable to a Couva-esque thunderbastard with Turner in goal. For as epic a shot as that was for T&T, the fact is that Tim Howard's feet were in cement for that shot. Turner showed against Jamaica that he could get his feet right and get over to cover a similarly epic blast (that nevertheless missed the target, but Turner had it covered).
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
I get that the Uly thing was disappointing, but the difference here is that they'd probably need to spend a significant transfer fee to land Pepi, so they'd be unlikely to just cut him loose.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
I looked this up the other day too. The two regional powerhouses -- by far the best two teams in the federation -- are 16-23-21 all time on the road in the most important competition.
They win just over 25% of the games they play away.
El Floppo
Footballguy
agree to disagree.
US has lost its only road game of consequence... Canada tied both of the games they should be expected to lose and haven't lost any yet. The US has yet to play Canada, CR or Mex away... all games that a point would look great from.
and more telling- they are playing cohesively and to their strengths... arguably the better team against both the US and Mex away. And they did this to the US without Davies for most of the game.
El Floppo
Footballguy
from the eye test... waaaaaay more than one poor game.
but the results have flattered him and this team, so agree- tough to can him.
blend
Footballguy
True... but didn't they have issues with Kobe Hernandez too? Sure, Pepi is a better prospect than both of those guys, but it still gives me pause for sure. Hopefully, he's getting good advice from people he trusts that tells him Wolfsburg is a good fit.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
You don't think San Pedro Sula is a road game of consequence? Canada has to go there knowing they couldn't beat that team at home.
Canada has taken 3 points in only one game in Octagon. And El Salvador delivered a true stinker in that game. And we're two games away from the half way point. It's great that they're getting 1 point from where they might get 0. But they're also getting 1 point from where they might get 3. They haven't shown nearly the home form to feel comfortable in the US and Mexico games yet.
Don't get me wrong. I think Canada is in a good spot. I just think the US is too. I'd be very surprised if Mex, the US, and Canada weren't the three to qualify. But as much as I like grinding out a point on the road, I think getting three points when possible has far more impact.
Moe.
Footballguy
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
I suspect that may signal more of an issue between Wolfsburg and the Kleiban brothers than necessarily an issue with US players.
Moe.
Footballguy
Seriously guys, go look at the fixture list and the standings. Look at who has already played and what each team has remaining. Start picking results in terms of how you think these matches are likely to finish and do some of the table math on it - we are going to qualify. Worst-case scenario we need something at Costa Rica in March, but I’m betting against it.
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Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
There are some usually pretty clear headed guys on USMNT Twitter freaking out too. I get it. It hasn't always been a pretty 28-6-6. I just disagree with Watke that it wouldn't matter if we replaced Gregg now because "he hasn't built anything anyway." I think that's clearly wrong. At the very least, he's built a system that limits chances. And that probably stands us in good stead for the rest of those away qualifiers.Moe. said:
TripItUp
Footballguy
Looking ahead..
Let's say we qualify but GGG continues to have the same issues that most agree with(player selection, leadership, tactics etc.)
Would you you replace him after we've qualified?
Is he the single best available manager to get us into the knockout rounds in Qatar?
gianmarco
Footballguy
This is where I am too.Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
I think the biggest question for me is who he puts at RW. It can't/shouldn't be Arriola to start. Fine with him coming in later.
I think it will be Weah. I checked and he has played about half his games on the right side and it's his club position as well.
Aaronson Pepi Weah
Musah Adams McKennie
Robinson Robinson Richards Dest
Turner
Subs: LDLT for McKennie, Roldan for Weah, Moore for Dest (or Robinson and slide Dest over), Zardes for Pepi, last TBD
Moe.
Footballguy
International soccer is bonkers, so I’m not going to say unprecedented, but it would be pretty weird to replace a dude in that situation.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
It's weird how little credit the team gets for this. They've been superb defensively for a long stretch now.
encaitar
Footballguy
Sure, now.... However, coming into that ELS game he was coming off on hell of a summer. Not only did we beat Mexico twice and win two trophies, but outplayed Mexico with what any neutral would admit was an inferior squad the second time around to do it. Tough to start planning for a new coach after one bad loss, a disappointing tie, and an ugly win after that summer.El Floppo said:
Now, it's clearly too late. Probably already was by then.
Worm
slimy ninja
If we qualify and we are healthy, our lineup is going to pick itself moreso than it has in the past. And this will limit one of Gregg's perceived weaknesses.
So, in that case, what are you gaining? Are we going to bring in some tactical savant that is going to steamroll us into the knockout rounds? Or are we better off with someone who has coached our guys for a couple years?
Oh, and if we are NOT healthy come 2022... then it's sort of irrelevant. Let Gregg coach and see how he does and make a decision afterwards with 2026 in mind.
encaitar
Footballguy
I don't think we can replace the coach no matter what happens this time around. With the schedule so compacted there wouldn't be enough time to integrate any new philosophy or tactics into the squad, so we'd have to find someone who played a similar system with a similar mentality that was better at game day prep and made better in game decisions to be in a better spot.
Arena had two camps and two easy WCQ games to start his takeover for JK in that cycle and still he thought it wasn't enough time and tried to rely on veterans who had already been part of the system to ensure they knew their roles. We saw how it turned out. Likely we would've been better sticking with Klinnsman and his desire to integrate young players. I'd hate to see us try it again in a worse situation.
Arena had two camps and two easy WCQ games to start his takeover for JK in that cycle and still he thought it wasn't enough time and tried to rely on veterans who had already been part of the system to ensure they knew their roles. We saw how it turned out. Likely we would've been better sticking with Klinnsman and his desire to integrate young players. I'd hate to see us try it again in a worse situation.
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
I pretty much agree with this.TripItUp said:
Any big-time program in any sport has to have an in-case-of-emergency plan as it relates to its coach. If it doesn't, the program has bigger problems than its T-shirt-wearing, behind-the-back-passing dork of a coach.
And if you're just waiting for one more loss or until after the WC to get rid of him, just do it now. Can you really afford to miss the WC again? Are you willing to do that because you were afraid to make the move now?
Planning, schmanning. They've been playing soccer their whole lives. They've been coached their whole lives. There are assistant coaches that would likely stay for continuity. A new head coach wouldn't be trying to reinvent the wheel.
And let's be honest, could they play worse than they did Sunday when they basically had nine guys stand around for 100 minutes? I think not.
TripItUp
Footballguy
That lineup eliminates a lot of the suck...I do worry about the chemistry between Robinson and Richards given they've never played together...which is of course why Richards should have been called up a long long time ago...yet another example of Berhalter's incompetence.
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BeTheMatch
Footballguy
What are we gaining? Hopefully beyond better lineup selection, you get a coach that can motivate the players to play. Hello? You play to win the game. GGG did not play to win the last game. Plain and simple. And maybe the players saw that and decided not to try. I don't know. No idea. None of us can be in their heads. But when you see basically an entire team lay down and quit from the start, you have to wonder about the coach.
You can't fire the players. At least not all of them.
