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US Men's National Team (16 Viewers)
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BlackCrowes
Footballguy
good grief Haji
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I don't have too many complaints. The better finishing team won today, but maybe not the better team? Hard to say because the Dutch tactics worked so well in the first half. Had Pulisic buried that shot he scores 8 out of 10 times, it would have changed the complexion a bit because it may have made the Dutch rethink what they were doing.
The whole tournament the US created chances and either the final ball (our crossing % of finding a US player had to be extraordinarily low) or finishing was poor, and today was no different.
Even the goal today, Haji knew absolutely nothing about. Pure luck.
Plenty to build on for next cycle and I can't wait to enjoy the next 3.5 years.
My big hope is that US Soccer does not take forever in hiring a new coach. Just get it done and lets get on with it.
The whole tournament the US created chances and either the final ball (our crossing % of finding a US player had to be extraordinarily low) or finishing was poor, and today was no different.
Even the goal today, Haji knew absolutely nothing about. Pure luck.
Plenty to build on for next cycle and I can't wait to enjoy the next 3.5 years.
My big hope is that US Soccer does not take forever in hiring a new coach. Just get it done and lets get on with it.
Rich Conway
Footballguy
To rephrase from the other thread, it felt to me like the Dutch cross because they see an opening. We cross because we don't.
Orange&Blue
Footballguy
Too many experience mistakes. Losing players in crosses by ball watching. Rest and Robinson both doing that and then Adams not hustling back. There is a lot of talent on this team, but lack of finishers, depth, and experience did them in.
encaitar
Footballguy
Really proud of this team. The Dutch are clearly more talented than us, but we gave them a fight. It came down to the same thing we've been saying all along.... clinical finishing. If we could finish our chances then this game looks really different. Hope we improve on that with experience/growth in the next 4 years. Still, I'm excited for what's to come.
I said it in the other thread, but I'll repeat it here... The gap between LvG and GGG is huge. I don't know if we could find a coach like LvG for this next cycle, but it would be massive for our young team if we could.
I said it in the other thread, but I'll repeat it here... The gap between LvG and GGG is huge. I don't know if we could find a coach like LvG for this next cycle, but it would be massive for our young team if we could.
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
So what will be the expected timeline on that? When should we expect them to declare whether GGG is coming back or not?
Rich Conway
Footballguy
I think there's merit to this idea. Good coaches like to win. The US clearly has up and coming talent and that can be attractive.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I think there should be a lot of good candidates if we don't take forever.
The pay will be top tier
Very little fear of getting sacked due to no qualifying
Coaching host nation is great for profile/marketing etc
And most importantly, a bunch of good players who will move into their prime during this upcoming cycle.
And still plenty of work to do for new coach. Sounds like a great gig IMO.
Orange&Blue
Footballguy
Why do we need a new coach?
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I would love US Soccer to put out a big "Thank you" type of post for GGG early next week which lets the fan base know that chapter is closed while we wait for the next.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
2 cycle coaches rarely if ever work and they typically only occur if team either wins the whole thing or significantly advances past where any one thought they would before tournament. Neither of those happened and I think the likelihood that GGG gets a second term is very low.
TLEF316
Footballguy
So.....
8 years ago when we lost to Belgium, it was very clear that every field player that started for Belgium (and probably most of their subs) were more talented and better than any field player that we had on that day. No offense to guys like Dempsey and Donovan (who should have been there. Period). It was just the truth. We didn't have the ability. Only Tim Howard's incredible effort kept that game from being a total embarrassment on the scoreboard.
We're past that point now. The core of our team (CP, Adams, Gio, Weston, Dest, Musah, Weah) are talented enough to play for any team in the world (not saying they'd all make the Brazilian or French squads. They obviously wouldn't. But you could drop them on that field and they wouldn't stick out like a sore thumb the way their predecessors would have). We've taken a BIG step.
But there's several more HUGE steps left to go. When someone asked before the tournament what the keys were....I said (not saying this is some genius take) that it would be finishing. The Dutch were absolutely clinical today. Dont get me wrong....our mental lapses gave them holes, but they exploited them with brutal efficiency. We simply didn't do the same. CP got a GIFT in first 5 minutes....missed it. Haji had it on a platter on that backpass....kicked it 10 yards too far. From an execution standpoint, that was obviously the difference.
No point crapping on Greg at this point. He did what he thought was best and played the way he wanted to play. He SHOULD be replaced and I think he will be. He qualified....he had a great plan against England. (although not putting in Gio earlier in the 2nd half was a joke) We made the knockout rounds. Hats off to him. But this team needs something different going forward. Someone who knows how to/has the courage to set his guys up to put the hammer down when we're the more talented team. LVG ran circles around Greg today, as he should have.
Hopefully the lack of consequences the next 4 years (in terms of not having to worry about qualifying. Obviously we want play as many competitive games as possible. But we know we'll be at the dance at the end) will allow the program to focus on developing their highest ceiling players as part of the group. Nothing but respect for a guy like Walker Zimmerman, but I REALLY hope we dont have to rely on a "really good MLS defender" safety blanket to scrape by CONCACAF opposition anymore. 4 years from now, there should no room for MLS lifers on this squad.
Greg was afraid to try guys like Scally, CCV, EPB, Luca, Mihalovic, Richards, etc. until it was far too late (or not at all) because he didn't want to risk not qualifying (and rightfully so). Thankfully the next guy wont have the same issue. Lets find our guys...take some lumps if needed.
And yeah.....lets find some damn finishers. Obviously Haji zardes'd his way into a goal, but he stinks. And Jesus brought absolutely nothing out there. He was a poor finisher in CONCACAF so I never thought he'd do anything today. The Dutch played like he wasn't even out there. Like when you have a scrub on your men's league basketball team and they just have the guy "guarding him" stand in the front of the basket as a permanent help defender.
8 years ago when we lost to Belgium, it was very clear that every field player that started for Belgium (and probably most of their subs) were more talented and better than any field player that we had on that day. No offense to guys like Dempsey and Donovan (who should have been there. Period). It was just the truth. We didn't have the ability. Only Tim Howard's incredible effort kept that game from being a total embarrassment on the scoreboard.
We're past that point now. The core of our team (CP, Adams, Gio, Weston, Dest, Musah, Weah) are talented enough to play for any team in the world (not saying they'd all make the Brazilian or French squads. They obviously wouldn't. But you could drop them on that field and they wouldn't stick out like a sore thumb the way their predecessors would have). We've taken a BIG step.
But there's several more HUGE steps left to go. When someone asked before the tournament what the keys were....I said (not saying this is some genius take) that it would be finishing. The Dutch were absolutely clinical today. Dont get me wrong....our mental lapses gave them holes, but they exploited them with brutal efficiency. We simply didn't do the same. CP got a GIFT in first 5 minutes....missed it. Haji had it on a platter on that backpass....kicked it 10 yards too far. From an execution standpoint, that was obviously the difference.
No point crapping on Greg at this point. He did what he thought was best and played the way he wanted to play. He SHOULD be replaced and I think he will be. He qualified....he had a great plan against England. (although not putting in Gio earlier in the 2nd half was a joke) We made the knockout rounds. Hats off to him. But this team needs something different going forward. Someone who knows how to/has the courage to set his guys up to put the hammer down when we're the more talented team. LVG ran circles around Greg today, as he should have.
Hopefully the lack of consequences the next 4 years (in terms of not having to worry about qualifying. Obviously we want play as many competitive games as possible. But we know we'll be at the dance at the end) will allow the program to focus on developing their highest ceiling players as part of the group. Nothing but respect for a guy like Walker Zimmerman, but I REALLY hope we dont have to rely on a "really good MLS defender" safety blanket to scrape by CONCACAF opposition anymore. 4 years from now, there should no room for MLS lifers on this squad.
Greg was afraid to try guys like Scally, CCV, EPB, Luca, Mihalovic, Richards, etc. until it was far too late (or not at all) because he didn't want to risk not qualifying (and rightfully so). Thankfully the next guy wont have the same issue. Lets find our guys...take some lumps if needed.
And yeah.....lets find some damn finishers. Obviously Haji zardes'd his way into a goal, but he stinks. And Jesus brought absolutely nothing out there. He was a poor finisher in CONCACAF so I never thought he'd do anything today. The Dutch played like he wasn't even out there. Like when you have a scrub on your men's league basketball team and they just have the guy "guarding him" stand in the front of the basket as a permanent help defender.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I was thinking when it happened some where ol Gyasi was standing and cheering saying "that's how you do it!"
BassNBrew
Footballguy
Gio certainly didn't show Greg for that decision.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
They were, but no team, anywhere, ever, exceeds xG by the margin they have in this tournament for very long. The narrative will get built around their finishing, but xG is the truth and wins out every time in the medium run.
It's just that in a short tournament there is no medium run, so the narrative becomes legend when you're on the right side of the variance.
TLEF316
Footballguy
And since this is always fun.....my initial guess at our roster 4 years from now. Ready to look stupid.....(lets assume its 23 guys next time)
GK- Turner, Slonina, Horvath
FB- Dest. Robinson, Scally, Paredes
CB- Richards, CCV, Eric Palmer Brown, Trusty
MF- Adams, Musah, Weston, Reyna, Tilman, backup 6 TBD
Wings- CP, Weah, Brendan Aaronson,
Forwards- Pepi, Sargent, No Idea.
I believe in Paredes but he's gonna have to start getting some PT soon. Obviously Gomez getting first team minutes and picking the US could put him in the mix. I haven't seen too much of Trusty but he seems to playing really well lately and none of the CB's at the U-20's jumped off the page for me. Robinson could certainly be on the bubble if he even loses half a step (As his ability run fast and forever is pretty much all he has.
If 26 man rosters are a thing forever, could see guys like the younger Aaronson and some of the other attacking players from the U-20 side getting in the mix. Plenty of potential forwards that COULD take a step (Dike, Vazquez) but who the hell knows.
Only listing 3 wings but Reyna and probably Tillman could probably play out there too. As could Paredes in certain setups if he develops. And the 3rd TBD forward could certainly be some sort of hybrid type player capable of playing multiple spots.
GK- Turner, Slonina, Horvath
FB- Dest. Robinson, Scally, Paredes
CB- Richards, CCV, Eric Palmer Brown, Trusty
MF- Adams, Musah, Weston, Reyna, Tilman, backup 6 TBD
Wings- CP, Weah, Brendan Aaronson,
Forwards- Pepi, Sargent, No Idea.
I believe in Paredes but he's gonna have to start getting some PT soon. Obviously Gomez getting first team minutes and picking the US could put him in the mix. I haven't seen too much of Trusty but he seems to playing really well lately and none of the CB's at the U-20's jumped off the page for me. Robinson could certainly be on the bubble if he even loses half a step (As his ability run fast and forever is pretty much all he has.
If 26 man rosters are a thing forever, could see guys like the younger Aaronson and some of the other attacking players from the U-20 side getting in the mix. Plenty of potential forwards that COULD take a step (Dike, Vazquez) but who the hell knows.
Only listing 3 wings but Reyna and probably Tillman could probably play out there too. As could Paredes in certain setups if he develops. And the 3rd TBD forward could certainly be some sort of hybrid type player capable of playing multiple spots.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I feel ambivalent at the moment.
I don't think this WC was anything close to a failure, nor do I think it is anything close to a success.
Strange middle ground I find myself in....
I don't think this WC was anything close to a failure, nor do I think it is anything close to a success.
Strange middle ground I find myself in....
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
With Jedi's very late sub, I believe Turner, Adams and Ream went full iron man.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
I think where I end up is that we played two really good teams and weren't really outplayed in either of them. And overall our style of play looked a LOT more like the way elite teams play than we've ever played before IMO. We created a lot without exposing ourselves defensively. Honestly, other than better balls into the box (we got into great spots over and over) and our backside defending today, we were really good for four games.
Orange&Blue
Footballguy
Yeah, our forwards were threats by accidents. As a another sign of our big hill to climb, I don't think any of those names you mentioned are strikers.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Yeah, I'm not too upset. The Dutch played very well, and I suspect LVG saw a susceptibility to the drag back and drilled it in training. He's a great tournament coach.
But the US didn't really play badly on the day. I did think Jedi was both physically and mentally exhausted. I think a good example of that was the second goal. Yeah, Dest was a step late tracking a late-arriving full-back, but Jedi was face-up with Dumfries at a standstill. And he let him get his cross off. To me, that's fatigue. When neither your mind nor body is quite fresh enough to close down the extra yard in time.
For those that care, this probably means that Gregg won't get a second cycle, I'd imagine. And while I don't really have an issue with how he picked or prepared the team for this tournament, I think that's fine. Second cycles should be reserved for when a coach has left no doubt that the team is already near the top or poised to take that next step. Gregg didn't quite get them there..
But the US didn't really play badly on the day. I did think Jedi was both physically and mentally exhausted. I think a good example of that was the second goal. Yeah, Dest was a step late tracking a late-arriving full-back, but Jedi was face-up with Dumfries at a standstill. And he let him get his cross off. To me, that's fatigue. When neither your mind nor body is quite fresh enough to close down the extra yard in time.
For those that care, this probably means that Gregg won't get a second cycle, I'd imagine. And while I don't really have an issue with how he picked or prepared the team for this tournament, I think that's fine. Second cycles should be reserved for when a coach has left no doubt that the team is already near the top or poised to take that next step. Gregg didn't quite get them there..
BassNBrew
Footballguy
Agree with you on the second gaol, also think Dest was pouting over his near miss and didn't have his guy. Maybe LVG coached his team to take advantage of pouting players and GGG should get canned for having players who pouted on the field.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Sleestak
Footballguy
IMO coaches get stale after a while. Also, Berhalter may want to do something else.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Now, I completely understand that the Netherlands conceding possession and countering with precision was their game plan. And they executed it pretty well, obviously.
That said, in no universe was any previous USMNT going to have the possession we had against a side like the Netherlands. If this matchup had taken place with our previous squads before this group, Netherlands would have never bothered with that approach. They would have run circles around us. And it's not as if this team has been playing this style either. Against Senegal in their first group match, Netherlands had a 54/46 possession advantage. Against Ecuador, it was 55/45. And against Qatar, it was 63/37.
Against us, today, the US had a 59/41 possession advantage. Against the Netherlands. That's insane, IMO.
I think that's incredibly substantial even if that's what they planned going on. There was a level of respect in going with that approach knowing that they were less likely to be successful in trying to dictate the game and control the narrative.
Kudos to the Dutch for showing us how it's done. But we've arrived and this truly feels like the start of something more. We finally belong on this big stage and can hang with that type of team when it matters. If CP buries that first chance, who knows how this game plays out. But the chances were there and now we just need to start taking them.
That said, in no universe was any previous USMNT going to have the possession we had against a side like the Netherlands. If this matchup had taken place with our previous squads before this group, Netherlands would have never bothered with that approach. They would have run circles around us. And it's not as if this team has been playing this style either. Against Senegal in their first group match, Netherlands had a 54/46 possession advantage. Against Ecuador, it was 55/45. And against Qatar, it was 63/37.
Against us, today, the US had a 59/41 possession advantage. Against the Netherlands. That's insane, IMO.
I think that's incredibly substantial even if that's what they planned going on. There was a level of respect in going with that approach knowing that they were less likely to be successful in trying to dictate the game and control the narrative.
Kudos to the Dutch for showing us how it's done. But we've arrived and this truly feels like the start of something more. We finally belong on this big stage and can hang with that type of team when it matters. If CP buries that first chance, who knows how this game plays out. But the chances were there and now we just need to start taking them.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
I will say, in limited defense of Haji, that when you run hard to get goal-side on that type of entry in the box, goals come even when you don't get great contact. His scuff took that to the extreme, but it shouldn't negate the fact that he did the things you have to do to get that type of chance. Part of it was game-state, but the US looked best with him in as a traditional striker.
BlackCrowes
Footballguy
Yeah that chance happened so early and fast it was hard to register how good of a chance it was. He actually hit it pretty good. decent save. Woul be interesting to start there up 1-0 and watch it play out.
BassNBrew
Footballguy
Well said.
I noticed the Dutch pressing us early and we were effective at passing our way through it. I don't think ceding possession was their plan. I don't think turning over the ball to us was their plan either. I think we have some dang good players that gave 4 top 20 teams all they could handle.
TwinTurbo
Footballguy
I agree with all of this.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I can't speak to foreign candidates since the list would be WAAAY too long, but I feel a very high level of confidence that the following 4 American names are on a white board some where, deciding if they (Stewart and McBride) should move to an interview stage or not with any of them.
Steve Cherundolo
Jim Curtain
Jesse Marsch
Hugo Perez
of the 4, I do not think the fan base will accept Curtain. He will be seen as GGG 2.0. I think the other 3 would be given at least an initial chance before every one tried to bury them.
Steve Cherundolo
Jim Curtain
Jesse Marsch
Hugo Perez
of the 4, I do not think the fan base will accept Curtain. He will be seen as GGG 2.0. I think the other 3 would be given at least an initial chance before every one tried to bury them.
prefontaine
Footballguy
Yeah, I was cursing in the 1h when Dest (I think) did all the hard work to get a cross off and Jesus was milling about never making the run and it went to nobody. If he makes that run he probably gets little brothered yet again but that's not a good excuse not to make the run.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
To be fair, they didn't really play well, either.
My intent is not to rag on this team, because I love this team, and love that they went for it. I love that the Netherlands felt they needed to diagram a gameplan of conceding possession to us.
Like @gianmarco said, that's amazing in and of itself. And it was well earned by the US side. That is a huge change to anything we've ever done before.
But once the Dutch actually decided to do it, in the game itself we really did nothing about it, and nothing particularly good. With 59% of possession we created no real chances. Our only chances came on lucky bounces (Pulisic accidentally being held onsides and Haji accidentally having a Dutch back-pass right to him). In terms of creating, we did essentially nothing. We just kind of passed the ball around aimlessly, and made some half hearted token runs where guys felt like they were supposed to be doing something "attacking" so just kind of jogged into the box so they could check it off as having "made a run". Same thing with crosses, though that part isn't new. Not crosses with intent, just kind of "eh, there's not really anything else to do with the ball here, so I'll just flip it in there randomly and hope for a good bounce".
It wasn't that anything was particularly bad, there just wasn't anything particularly good. No truly threatening runs, no great longer passes to create pressure, no clever overlapping runs or anything that got the defenders scrambling. The entire game their defenders felt totally comfortable. They had their guys marked, they cleared the ball with comfort.
Again, not trying to be a downer. I love that we just played a game with the Netherlands where they felt they had to play us this way. But once they decided to, we still lacked the creativity to do ANYTHING about it, other than get a couple of lucky bounces which we mostly then failed to capitalize on. Definitely not a game that we deserved to win but got a bit unlucky like is often the case when a team has 60% of possession but still loses. It felt like the Netherlands could've kept playing that way for 500 minutes and not give up a goal that didn't come off a lucky bounce.
Tons to build on. Another 4 years will do these kids wonders, and the even bigger thing will be if please god a real #9 emerges that makes teams actually scared to do this against us.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
If my math is correct, we attempted 22 corners in the WC.
I believe those 22 corners resulted in exactly 1 chance on goal (the one today where Ream just couldn't get a final toe on it).
I think 21 of the 22 corners were relatively identical in terms of the ball being played into the middle of the box.
I believe those 22 corners resulted in exactly 1 chance on goal (the one today where Ream just couldn't get a final toe on it).
I think 21 of the 22 corners were relatively identical in terms of the ball being played into the middle of the box.
prefontaine
Footballguy
Yeah Van Gaal took an x's and o's approach and you could see the offensive pattern of play was drilled in. They tried that cut back pass over and over and there was always a runner heading to that spot. It definitely wasn't unplanned.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
this was not a lucky bounce imo. Adams played his best offensive pass of the entire WC to send in Pulisic alone. It was great vision and touch.
prefontaine
Footballguy
Irritating. Not sure our free kicks were any better. I can't remember any of consequence.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
The guy who got hired specifically for set pieces (at least offensively) did not do anything to add to his resume once he is let go next week.
Ted Lange as your Bartender
Footballguy
I don’t want Curtin to get this job either because I think he deserves better than this job. If he can’t stay I want him to follow the Marsch path to Europe.
TwinTurbo
Footballguy
To be fair, that 2014 Belgium squad was loaded, most teams didn't match up well with them. I do think our 2014 USMNT would have fared just as well against the Dutch today. We need a 9 and we don't have one. The defensive lapses also were unexpectedly bad. The media in other countries would be ruthless. All that said, this was the first time in my life that the US was arguably the better team in all the matches they played and that definitely counts for something.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
If there is a coaching change, I don't think the board will just look at the usual candidates out of the US coaching tree.
I've read that Bielsa is taking the Uruguay job, but it wouldn't shock me to see the US take a run at him. I'd also think they might be looking for someone with a decent European club track record who may be stagnating right now. Someone like Brendan Rogers or Max Allegri. Maybe even someone like Patrick Vieri, who has MLS experience and is kind of a mid-table EPL manager.
If LVG makes another deep run with the Dutch, it wouldn't shock me to see the US make a big run at him with a can't refuse offer. He's really made for the international game, where the lighter workload lets him hyper focus on tactics on a game by game basis.
I've read that Bielsa is taking the Uruguay job, but it wouldn't shock me to see the US take a run at him. I'd also think they might be looking for someone with a decent European club track record who may be stagnating right now. Someone like Brendan Rogers or Max Allegri. Maybe even someone like Patrick Vieri, who has MLS experience and is kind of a mid-table EPL manager.
If LVG makes another deep run with the Dutch, it wouldn't shock me to see the US make a big run at him with a can't refuse offer. He's really made for the international game, where the lighter workload lets him hyper focus on tactics on a game by game basis.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Replacing "Set Piece Coach" with "Quality Control Assistant Coach" on that resume item as we speak.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
He thought he was offsides though, kind of just going through the motions. He didn't realize the defender way up top had been lazy and accidentally held Christian on. Even Pulisic looked like he kind of half-hearted the attempt because he was expecting a whistle.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Big Sam?
dnurk
Footballguy
I need to re watch but my feeling while watching was super disappointed in what Gio brought in the 2nd half. Jogged around …didn’t make runs into the box when we had possession in the attacking 3rd. I did see a few what if attempts to creatively flick the ball through traffic but way way less of a threat than Pulisic Weah Aaronson
