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US Men's National Team (7 Viewers)

El Floppo said:
Thanks! He belongs in that group as far as I can tell. 
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MBappe swept the first place votes.  I think Pulisic had the most second place votes.

It looks like Suarez, Messi, C Ronaldo, Stoichkov, Figo, Charleton, Cannavaro, Owen, Matthaus and Nedved all voted for Pulisic.

 
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Berhalter has his introductory press conference today.

He excels in two items.  Scouting and preparing his team for games.

As an international coach, he will have a near infinite amount of time to scout teams and players and a very very small amount of time to prepare his team for games.

 
El Floppo said:
pareja would've been interesting. 

without having looked at the tactical video andy posted yet- maybe berhalter can get the us to at least being a tactically sound, pragmatic team that can qualify for the WC and then hopefully rely on CP to let 'er rip to provide some excitement for the fans. (when he's not being kicked down mercilessly- which we all know is what's going to be happening throughout WCQ).
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Wait... Did you say "rip"!? Yesssssss RRRRRRRRRRIIIIIIIIIIPPPPPPPPPPP!!! 

 
NewlyRetired said:
It makes me chuckle knowing that there were people who convinced themselves that the lack of qualification may have a silver lining in everything being blown up and put back together in a much better way.
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If chuckle means make very mad then yes me too. What a freaking joke. 

 
NewlyRetired said:
Berhalter has his introductory press conference today.

He excels in two items.  Scouting and preparing his team for games.

As an international coach, he will have a near infinite amount of time to scout teams and players and a very very small amount of time to prepare his team for games.
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This is making me feel a little better.

But serious question: how is he with preparing for wet and bumpy fields?

 
El Floppo said:
This is making me feel a little better.
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it shouldn't.   

My point was that as a club coach his strength was spending a ton of time with his players making them understand their role in each game plan (as the video explained).  But that prep time does not exist in the international game.   He will need to adjust.

 
NewlyRetired said:
it shouldn't.   

My point was that as a club coach his strength was spending a ton of time with his players making them understand their role in each game plan (as the video explained).  But that prep time does not exist in the international game.   He will need to adjust.
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I still like the scouting (US looked lost against too many regional teams- I was there to see the RB arena debacle vs CR where CR found space everywhere).

 
El Floppo said:
I still like the scouting (US looked lost against too many regional teams- I was there to see the RB arena debacle vs CR where CR found space everywhere).
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I think the scouting will be positive in two ways.   First, in the way that you mentioned above, which is in scouting teams.

And secondly in scouting US players based all over.   I think having a coach who gets to games and presses hands with his players helps to form longer term bonds for buy in to game plans later.  It also helps with dual nats as well.

We all know JK never left California unless he was forced to.  I am hoping/expecting Berhalter to be much different in this regard.

 
NewlyRetired said:
This is well worth 5 minutes of your time.  This is a nice video explanation of tactics that Berhalter uses.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKCW4mvhbxE
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So I finally watched this...  I like it.  Way too short summary is a 4231, lots of pressing, fullbacks overlap, wingers sometimes swap, and DM's run a double pivot.  One of the DM's stays back (Trapp at Columbus) the other may play more like a traditional Box to Box.  Higuian pulls the strings in attack as the CAM.  The backline sometimes looks like a back 3 because of Trapp playing back so far, especially on a counter when fullbacks are caught forward.  

So what is a predicted lineup with this system? 

I think the big question will be remain, who can play the CAM?  We essentially have 3 players that can play the DM role in Trapp/Adams/Swag, but Trapp is the one I would think of as more likely to stay back and not bomb forward (even tho he has the lowest upside of the three).  If Pulisic stays outside at RAM/RW, then much like the wasted days of the last year, there is a void of talent to fill the CAM.

 
Poke_4_Life said:
So I finally watched this...  I like it.  Way too short summary is a 4231, lots of pressing, fullbacks overlap, wingers sometimes swap, and DM's run a double pivot.  One of the DM's stays back (Trapp at Columbus) the other may play more like a traditional Box to Box.  Higuian pulls the strings in attack as the CAM.  The backline sometimes looks like a back 3 because of Trapp playing back so far, especially on a counter when fullbacks are caught forward.  

So what is a predicted lineup with this system? 

I think the big question will be remain, who can play the CAM?  We essentially have 3 players that can play the DM role in Trapp/Adams/Swag, but Trapp is the one I would think of as more likely to stay back and not bomb forward (even tho he has the lowest upside of the three).  If Pulisic stays outside at RAM/RW, then much like the wasted days of the last year, there is a void of talent to fill the CAM.
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I have the same questions you do.

I don't think Yedlin has the natural skills to play the offensive portion of this scheme (and lets not mention the black hole at LB either).  I love what Dest is doing and seems perfect for this fit.   Lets hope his development curve continues to sky rocket.  

We have no one in the senior system like Higuian.   Pulisic is too dribble oriented (unless he changes his style), and neither Swag nor Adams have the elite passing skills needed.    Mendez might be the exact type of player we need here.

Luckily we still have a couple of years for some of the youngsters like Dest, Sargent and Mendez to develop.   All 3 would fit into Berhalter's system quite well.

 
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NewlyRetired said:
I have the same questions you do.

I don't think Yedlin has the natural skills to play the offensive portion of this scheme.  I love what Dest is doing and seems perfect for this fit.   Lets hope his development curve continues to sky rocket.  

We have no one in the senior system like Higuian.   Pulisic is too dribble oriented (unless he changes his style).    Mendez might be the exact type of player we need here.

Luckily we still have a couple of years for some of the youngsters like Dest, Sargent and Mendez to develop.   All 3 would fit into Berhalter's system quite well.
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I think Yedlin will at least bomb forward and create havoc, while also having recovery speed for the counter.  RB was one of the few positions I wasn't too concerned about.  It is one of the few positions where we have a legit top 5 league starter who we can pencil in to a position he plays every week.

I guess my major concern with Berhalter's system is we basically ran a 4231 for the last year w/out the players to run it properly.  Maybe if they are coached up better and know the system better the results will be better, but on the surface it looks like more of the same.

 
Poke_4_Life said:
I guess my major concern with Berhalter's system is we basically ran a 4231 for the last year w/out the players to run it properly.  Maybe if they are coached up better and know the system better the results will be better, but on the surface it looks like more of the same.
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I don't remember the formations game to game but in the last game against T&T  Arena decided to strand Bradley alone as the holding midfielder.   I am pretty sure multiple formations were used through out JK and Arena's cycle as they searched for something that would work.

Outside of the T&T debacle, the image that will likely never leave my brain is Bradley and Germany Jones screaming at JK on the sidelines to change the formation against Mexico as they were getting slaughtered because no one knew what they were suppose to be doing.

 
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NewlyRetired said:
I don't remember the formations game to game but in the last game against T&T  Arena decided to strand Bradley alone as the holding midfielder.   I am pretty sure multiple formations were used through out JK and Arena's cycle as they searched for something that would work.
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Right, but for the last year under Saccharin we ran basically a 4231 every game.  

 
Poke_4_Life said:
Right, but for the last year under Saccharin we ran basically a 4231 every game.  
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I don't think this is true.

Check this thread for proof but I am pretty sure the vast majority of time was a 4-1-4-1 with Trapp as the lone midfielder.   We have numerous comments about how this formation did not fit our talent in any way.   It was only in the last couple of games that he used a form of a 4-2-3-1

 
NewlyRetired said:
I don't think this is true.

Check this thread for proof but I am pretty sure the vast majority of time was a 4-1-4-1 with Trapp as the lone midfielder.   We have numerous comments about how this formation did not fit our talent in any way.   It was only in the last couple of games that he used a form of a 4-2-3-1
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:kicksrock:

Not going to doubt you.  I just see major holes in a 4231 from the players we have now.  But I also don't see a good formation that fits either

One positive for the Berhalter hire, is he uses a consistent formation.  I'm a big fan of getting a formation that we use consistently from the yutes forward to get players comfortable with the roles.  (Looking at you, Jurgen and your 3 man d line.)

Maybe I'm still just pissed that it took 14 months to name the coach and only two coaches were interviewed.  Maybe I'm pissed at another wasted year and that it probably was about saving $. 

Maybe I'm also pissed that Pulisic could be going to Chelski.  

 
NewlyRetired said:
I don't think this is true.

Check this thread for proof but I am pretty sure the vast majority of time was a 4-1-4-1 with Trapp as the lone midfielder.   We have numerous comments about how this formation did not fit our talent in any way.   It was only in the last couple of games that he used a form of a 4-2-3-1
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this. 

but poke's comments are still dead-on, and I appreciate the nutshell about the video (which I still haven't seen)

I think swagadams could fill that 2 for a long time. but it still comes down to the CAM... which is true for a lot of countries. there are the youngsters andy mentioned, and a couple others floating around who are still young that I like- plus Gio!: (from stars and stripes)

Keaton Parks

Parks has had a disappointing season this year for Benfica. While he has regularly played for Benfica’s B team in the second division in Portugal and has trained at times with the first team, he hasn’t sniffed the first team bench all year in any competition. At 21 years old, Parks could use the experience of playing at a higher level that he’s unlikely to see at Benfica anytime soon. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him loaned out for the rest of the season.

Emerson Hyndman

Hyndman was loaned to Scottish club Hibernian FC this summer from AFC Bournemouth and has had a mixed bag of a season so far. The loan was is scheduled to run out in January, but Hibernian is considering trying to extend the loan. This week, Neil Lennon spoke about the prospect of extending the loan, but he said he wants to see Hyndman back on the pitch (he’s been out injured and is scheduled to miss at least the next two matches) and contribute before making a decision. It would probably behoove Hyndman to try to stay, because playing time with Bournemouth would be difficult to come by since they’ve performed so well this season. We’ll have news on the 22-year-old soon.
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Ives Galarcep‏Verified account @SoccerByIves

The #USMNT will play its first match of 2019, and first match of the Gregg Berhalter era, on January 27th vs. Panama in Glendale, Arizona

 
Poke_4_Life said:
Beat me to it...  "Ball Circulation, Breaking Lines, and Creating Goal Scoring Opportunities...  that should be the DNA of this team."
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I also liked his mentioning of tempo and climate.

We all remember one of JK's first away games in Honduras where he was like "what in god's name is this weather?" as he watched all the Euro based players melt.

 
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NewlyRetired said:
I also liked his mentioning of tempo and climate.

We all remember one of JK's first away games in Honduras where he was like "what in god's name is this weather?" as he watched all the Euro based players melt.
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I will just be happy if we don't always play 11 men behind the ball...  bunker mentality.  Doesn't sound like it as least.  

 
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Poke_4_Life said:
I will just be happy if we don't always play 11 men behind the ball...  bunker mentality.  Doesn't sound like it as least.  
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I think nothing will change.  In most Concacaf games the US will have to break a bunker.  When we are playing a top 10ish team, the US will have to bunker.and counter.  

Anything in between should be a mix.

 
NewlyRetired said:
I think nothing will change.  In most Concacaf games the US will have to break a bunker.  When we are playing a top 10ish team, the US will have to bunker.and counter.  

Anything in between should be a mix.
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it's the games against our top regional opponents- Mex, CR, Hon, Pan (maybe Jam and Can in coming years) that will be interesting. you could argue the first two are better than the US and will force their own agendas- so does the US react or also try to force a US agenda? same goes for the rest, although really the US should be on the front foot with all of those.

 
Poke_4_Life said:
I will just be happy if we don't always play 11 men behind the ball...  bunker mentality.  Doesn't sound like it as least.  
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andy covered it a bit- but I have no problem if the approach is to defend and be a counter-puncher against a heavier hitter in games that matter.... as long as they do it well. I'm happy with the US being a Leicester and winning the WC that way. in friendlies- let's open it up and try ####.

 
El Floppo said:
it's the games against our top regional opponents- Mex, CR, Hon, Pan (maybe Jam and Can in coming years) that will be interesting. you could argue the first two are better than the US and will force their own agendas- so does the US react or also try to force a US agenda? same goes for the rest, although really the US should be on the front foot with all of those.
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Our senior side has never taken it to Mexico the way our U20's did in a game that matters.  Typically we sit back and let Mexico get frustrated which works more times than not.

It was a breath of fresh air to see the US U20's dominate the ball the way they did against Mexico.

 
NewlyRetired said:
Our senior side has never taken it to Mexico the way our U20's did in a game that matters.  Typically we sit back and let Mexico get frustrated which works more times than not.

It was a breath of fresh air to see the US U20's dominate the ball the way they did against Mexico.
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I'm not looking for the US to dominate a team they're essentially inferior to- but feel like I've seen some US v Mex games where the US went out and played on the front foot instead of just bunkering and countering- Gold Cup (benny golasso) final, davies at azteca... maybe one or two more recently.

 
El Floppo said:
I'm not looking for the US to dominate a team they're essentially inferior to- but feel like I've seen some US v Mex games where the US went out and played on the front foot instead of just bunkering and countering- Gold Cup (benny golasso) final, davies at azteca... maybe one or two more recently.
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you must be thinking of another game (Davies only scored in one game against Mexico).  The US barely touched the ball after Davies scored early and lost 2-1.  Here is a write up that describes the game:

https://goal.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/12/usa-vs-mexico-pre-game-banter/

The Americans’ inability to clear the ball from their own end, and their failure to maintain possession for spells longer than a few dozen seconds at a time, proved fatal. Mexico, who held the ball for the majority of the game, was stymied by the U.S. defense, led by Oguchi Onyewu, until the 82nd minute. But the relentless pressure from Mexico, who showed a long-missing confidence, earned El Tri the full three points at home.

============

The Benny golazo game was way back in 2007.  The US was down 1-0 at half and thoroughly dominated the second half to win the final 2-1.

 
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Poke_4_Life said:
I think the big question will be remain, who can play the CAM?  We essentially have 3 players that can play the DM role in Trapp/Adams/Swag, but Trapp is the one I would think of as more likely to stay back and not bomb forward (even tho he has the lowest upside of the three).  If Pulisic stays outside at RAM/RW, then much like the wasted days of the last year, there is a void of talent to fill the CAM.




 
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Berhalter addressed this in a video with Grant Wahl today.  He said that when Higuain was injured or suspended in Columbus and they didn't have a like for like 10, they would make that CAM position more movement- based and have him run in behind the lines as opposed to trying to drift between the lines and pick passes.  

 
NewlyRetired said:
you must be thinking of another game (Davies only scored in one game against Mexico).  The US barely touched the ball after Davies scored early and lost 2-1.  Here is a write up that describes the game:

https://goal.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/12/usa-vs-mexico-pre-game-banter/

The Americans’ inability to clear the ball from their own end, and their failure to maintain possession for spells longer than a few dozen seconds at a time, proved fatal. Mexico, who held the ball for the majority of the game, was stymied by the U.S. defense, led by Oguchi Onyewu, until the 82nd minute. But the relentless pressure from Mexico, who showed a long-missing confidence, earned El Tri the full three points at home.

============

The Benny golazo game was way back in 2007.  The US was down 1-0 at half and thoroughly dominated the second half to win the final 2-1.
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Always happy to be corrected on faulty memory. That Davies game- I remember the US coming out and attacking, and getting that goal. But I obviously forgot that they backed down and bunkered.

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Berhalter addressed this in a video with Grant Wahl today.  He said that when Higuain was injured or suspended in Columbus and they didn't have a like for like 10, they would make that CAM position more movement- based and have him run in behind the lines as opposed to trying to drift between the lines and pick passes.  
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Then who passed it to the attacking players? Kinda sounds like what we have now 

 
I think there will be some key features, to Berhalter's lineups, but I doubt it will be a locked in 4-2-3-1 every game (although I think he'll almost always have a double-pivot).  While the Nats don't have a pure 10 yet, both Sargent and Altidore are adept at dropping into midfield and picking passes.  So I wouldn't be shocked to see some 2 "striker" formations.  

I'm with Andy in that I don't think Yedlin is the guy to play RB in a system where the wingers often drop into that pocket at the corner of the 18 yard box and the fullbacks expolit what Bobby Warshaw calls "the Man City zone."  Dest is already a much better passer and decision-maker in those areas than Yedlin.  Heck, so is Zusi for that matter.  

 
El Floppo said:
Then who passed it to the attacking players? Kinda sounds like what we have now 
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Higuain is a great player, but Columbus made Ethan Finley and Justin Meram among the top chance creators in MLS at the wing spots.  I really don't remember Pipa setting up shop unmolested in Zone 14. Teams take that away now.  My impression of Columbus has always been that they switch play better than just about any team in MLS (using Trapp's best skill) and that they play both fullbacks high and wide more than just about anyone, relying on the CM pivot to cover the CBs.  If we think that we need a passer in that area of the field (and if we're worried whether Mendez is ready), I still think the best current option is to drop a striker and try to draw a CB out.  

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Higuain is a great player, but Columbus made Ethan Finley and Justin Meram among the top chance creators in MLS at the wing spots.  I really don't remember Pipa setting up shop unmolested in Zone 14. Teams take that away now.  My impression of Columbus has always been that they switch play better than just about any team in MLS (using Trapp's best skill) and that they play both fullbacks high and wide more than just about anyone, relying on the CM pivot to cover the CBs.  If we think that we need a passer in that area of the field (and if we're worried whether Mendez is ready), I still think the best current option is to drop a striker and try to draw a CB out.  
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I do think rotating the 3 more fluidly in front of the swagadams combo could help open things up- but that involves a mutual understanding of each other and how/where to be at all times. feels like the US the guys to attack down the flanks, but nobody to link it all up in the middle, higher up the field. Nagbe, Saief... maybe. who do you think would be dropping back from the front? ginjaninja? wood? navoicaine? hell... Jozy's still viable and does pretty well when he's around the ball more. wait... are we assuming 2 up front? or is that dropped striker the only one?

but I love teams that play it quickly and switch the ball quickly. with the way defenses over commit ball-side of the field, that seems like it's always on. so that would be a nice thing to see the US do.

 
NewlyRetired said:
This is a great article.  Read if interested in ten top US prospects

=========================

http://www.americansoccernow.com/articles/a-look-at-10-american-youngsters-and-their-chances-of-a-2019-beak-out
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Nice.  This winter Bundesliga break will give a lot of young Americans a chance to prove it.  Most teams will schedule 3-5 friendlies in that stretch and it's the guys outside the 18 and the young kids that are getting those minutes(and first team training) to see if they can help in the second half.  Pulisic took advantage of that situation in Dortmund to force himself into minutes later that same spring 3 years ago.  It'd be nice to see one or two of the current 18-19 year olds break into their respective first teams, even as just a spot sub.

 
The Berhalter interviews/press conferences today are a marked contrast to our previous coaches.

JK was all "we need to get nasty and get after it, the weather is awesome out today to work hard".  Lots of enthusiasm, not much substance.

Arena was always playing the "a hole" card to every question asked, with his sneer "how dare a plebe like you ask a question of me?"

Berhalter was asked questions and he answered with soccer specific details.   It was kind of refreshing even if he does not carry any cache in his public persona.

 
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Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
I think there will be some key features, to Berhalter's lineups, but I doubt it will be a locked in 4-2-3-1 every game (although I think he'll almost always have a double-pivot).  While the Nats don't have a pure 10 yet, both Sargent and Altidore are adept at dropping into midfield and picking passes.  So I wouldn't be shocked to see some 2 "striker" formations.  

I'm with Andy in that I don't think Yedlin is the guy to play RB in a system where the wingers often drop into that pocket at the corner of the 18 yard box and the fullbacks expolit what Bobby Warshaw calls "the Man City zone."  Dest is already a much better passer and decision-maker in those areas than Yedlin.  Heck, so is Zusi for that matter.  
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