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Vaccine Passports (1 Viewer)

supermike80 said:
Of COURSE no one is going to come out and say it.  Duh.  Using that as your excuse to say it doesn't exist is absurd.
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Imagine if an employer said that he was unwilling to hire black people because they couldn't be trusted to show up on time to an office located miles from their home.  Now stop and realize that the anti-ID people are saying that it's just too much to expect somebody to visit the DMV at a time of their choosing during a given four year period.  And those folks are convinced that it's the other guys who are racists in this narrative.

I'm okay with vaccine mandates because I think that nearly all adults are perfectly capable of making it to their local CVS, and I'm okay with voter ID requirements because I think those same people can also find their way to the DMV.  I'm strongly inclined to give the side eye to people who hold inconsistent positions on these two issues.  

 
IvanKaramazov said:
Imagine if an employer said that he was unwilling to hire black people because they couldn't be trusted to show up on time to an office located miles from their home.  Now stop and realize that the anti-ID people are saying that it's just too much to expect somebody to visit the DMV at a time of their choosing during a given four year period.  And those folks are convinced that it's the other guys who are racists in this narrative.

I'm okay with vaccine mandates because I think that nearly all adults are perfectly capable of making it to their local CVS, and I'm okay with voter ID requirements because I think those same people can also find their way to the DMV.  I'm strongly inclined to give the side eye to people who hold inconsistent positions on these two issues.  
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We are in agreement here.  

 
Amused to Death said:
NJ has a simple app, called Docket, that can be used to show your vaccinations. Its issued by the state and is valid for proof of vaccination. Nice and simple to set up and I don't have to worry about carrying my card.

Not sure what other states have an app, but its worth looking into.
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British Columbia just started the passport program today.  Very simple to download.  Took 3 minutes to get it on your phone.  Non-vaccinated people cannot get into restaurants, events, gyms, and a couple other things.

BC is around 79% one dose vaccinated and 86% over 12 years old.  When the passport was announced, there was a large increase in the amount of daily vaccinations (all the fence sitters got the shot).

 
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Chaz McNulty said:
British Columbia just started the passport program today.  Very simple to download.  Took 3 minutes to get it on your phone.  Non-vaccinated people cannot get into restaurants, events, gyms, and a couple other things.

BC is around 79% one dose vaccinated and 86% over 12 years old.  When the passport was announced, there was a large increase in the amount of daily vaccinations (all the fence sitters got the shot).
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simplify to get isn't the issue....its the fact that the passport requires a gov't issue ID and therefore excluded use by all the same people the voter ID laws effect and are being fought over. 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vaccine-passport-bc-1.6166052

As of Sept. 13, you'll need to show proof of vaccination to access designated businesses and events. Adults aged 19 and over will also need to show a government-issued piece of photo ID.
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So the argument is "can you have it both ways?" 

 
IvanKaramazov said:
Imagine if an employer said that he was unwilling to hire black people because they couldn't be trusted to show up on time to an office located miles from their home.  Now stop and realize that the anti-ID people are saying that it's just too much to expect somebody to visit the DMV at a time of their choosing during a given four year period.  And those folks are convinced that it's the other guys who are racists in this narrative.

I'm okay with vaccine mandates because I think that nearly all adults are perfectly capable of making it to their local CVS, and I'm okay with voter ID requirements because I think those same people can also find their way to the DMV.  I'm strongly inclined to give the side eye to people who hold inconsistent positions on these two issues.  
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I don't disagree but I don't think many truly feel that either of these are racist positions - rather it's using race as a crutch to enact something that may hurt their political party.  Both of them.

 
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IvanKaramazov said:
Imagine if an employer said that he was unwilling to hire black people because they couldn't be trusted to show up on time to an office located miles from their home.  Now stop and realize that the anti-ID people are saying that it's just too much to expect somebody to visit the DMV at a time of their choosing during a given four year period.  And those folks are convinced that it's the other guys who are racists in this narrative.

I'm okay with vaccine mandates because I think that nearly all adults are perfectly capable of making it to their local CVS, and I'm okay with voter ID requirements because I think those same people can also find their way to the DMV.  I'm strongly inclined to give the side eye to people who hold inconsistent positions on these two issues.  
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Is the employer purposefully moving away from the home?  Limiting hours in minority areas?  Making it more difficult for them to provide documentation they don’t historically have?

I said Im ok with ID requirements to f they are done right…thus far, many tomes, they haven’t been done that way.  And I have provided links to that many tomes over on this board.

This insinuation that I must just think people are too stupid is absolutely insulting and ridiculous.  Its flat out wrong and not at all what I think.

 
AAABatteries said:
I don't disagree but I don't think many truly feel that either of these are racist positions - rather it's using race as a crutch to enact something that may hurt their political party.  Both of them.
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Sure, I don't think most people deliberately intend to be racist on this issue.  It's just that they support their position with a line of argumentation that they would instantly recognize as racist in any other context except this one.

 
sho nuff said:
Is the employer purposefully moving away from the home?  Limiting hours in minority areas?  Making it more difficult for them to provide documentation they don’t historically have?

I said Im ok with ID requirements to f they are done right…thus far, many tomes, they haven’t been done that way.  And I have provided links to that many tomes over on this board.

This insinuation that I must just think people are too stupid is absolutely insulting and ridiculous.  Its flat out wrong and not at all what I think.
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What would you call people that can't figure out how to overcome distance, open hours and required documentation in a span of 4 years?   Just lazy?

 
IvanKaramazov said:
Imagine if an employer said that he was unwilling to hire black people because they couldn't be trusted to show up on time to an office located miles from their home.  Now stop and realize that the anti-ID people are saying that it's just too much to expect somebody to visit the DMV at a time of their choosing during a given four year period.  And those folks are convinced that it's the other guys who are racists in this narrative.

I'm okay with vaccine mandates because I think that nearly all adults are perfectly capable of making it to their local CVS, and I'm okay with voter ID requirements because I think those same people can also find their way to the DMV.  I'm strongly inclined to give the side eye to people who hold inconsistent positions on these two issues.  
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What would a voter ID accomplish that our current voter registration system does not?

 
Dickies said:
What would a voter ID accomplish that our current voter registration system does not?
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Provide pretty good evidence that the person casting a ballot is who they say they are.

But that's not important.  If a person decides that voter ID requirements don't add anything to our current system, that's fine.  My main objection for the purposes of this thread is the "black people can't manage their own lives efficiently enough to acquire IDs" argument, which is obviously racist and notably completely absent from the discussion of vaccine mandates.  

 
sho nuff said:
Is the employer purposefully moving away from the home?  Limiting hours in minority areas?  Making it more difficult for them to provide documentation they don’t historically have?

I said Im ok with ID requirements to f they are done right…thus far, many tomes, they haven’t been done that way.  And I have provided links to that many tomes over on this board.

This insinuation that I must just think people are too stupid is absolutely insulting and ridiculous.  Its flat out wrong and not at all what I think.
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Well I don't know what else to call it.   Sorry.  But that's just what it is.   Everyone else can do it, so singling out minorities and saying they can't is just 100% racist.

 
supermike80 said:
Well I don't know what else to call it.   Sorry.  But that's just what it is.   Everyone else can do it, so singling out minorities and saying they can't is just 100% racist.
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Cool...thanks for telling me what I think and feel.

But no...the studies showing why and people who see what has happened aren't the racist ones.  People closing stations in areas of minorities or limiting the hours and doing so to limit the ability of people to obtain an ID may be.

 
sho nuff said:
Cool...thanks for telling me what I think and feel.

But no...the studies showing why and people who see what has happened aren't the racist ones.  People closing stations in areas of minorities or limiting the hours and doing so to limit the ability of people to obtain an ID may be.
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No one will come out and say the truth.   That's the real issue.

Mask it with studies and other useless information, so no one will simply say it's because of a liberal view that minorities cannot take care of themselves in this country and need to have their hands held.

 
supermike80 said:
No one will come out and say the truth.   That's the real issue.

Mask it with studies and other useless information, so no one will simply say it's because of a liberal view that minorities cannot take care of themselves in this country and need to have their hands held.
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My liberal view is in areas that have shut down stations or limited hours...its often been done by republicans trying to limit the ability of people to obtain ID.  My view is based on studies showing it happening.  Its based on studies of some of these voter ID laws that have been pushed to limit certain segments from voting.  Not that people need their hands held...but that putting more obstacles in their way is ridiculous and defending that claiming its the other side's fault is ridiculous.

 
sho nuff said:
I said Im ok with ID requirements to f they are done right…thus far, many tomes, they haven’t been done that way.  And I have provided links to that many tomes over on this board.
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Done right?  

What kind of silly caveat is this? 

Sir you have to show ID....

What else is there???

 
parasaurolophus said:
Done right?  

What kind of silly caveat is this? 

Sir you have to show ID....

What else is there???
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The kind that has been described over and over again in voter ID law discussions.  

And the comparison to vaccine hesitancy which is a choice is pretty bad.

But here we are.

 
sho nuff said:
My liberal view is in areas that have shut down stations or limited hours...its often been done by republicans trying to limit the ability of people to obtain ID.  My view is based on studies showing it happening.  Its based on studies of some of these voter ID laws that have been pushed to limit certain segments from voting.  Not that people need their hands held...but that putting more obstacles in their way is ridiculous and defending that claiming its the other side's fault is ridiculous.
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Dont whatever rules that are put in place affect everyone?   There aren't rules being put in place saying..This rule is for minorities only

So why are you only arguing that side?  Oh yeah, I know why.  Hand holding

 
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supermike80 said:
Dont whatever rules that are put in place affect everyone?   There aren't rules being put in place saying..This rule is for minorities only

So why are you only arguing that side?  Oh yeah, I know why.  Hand holding
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Go look up the ID discussion in the past...Ive said it even here...ive posted the studies elsewhere.  If you limit the availability in areas of heavy minority populations...no, its not "affecting" everyone.  If you know historically a certain group does not have ID and you also limit the stations in certain areas...no, its not affecting everyone.  Yes...some laws have clearly been pushed to affect minorities at a higher rate.  Yes...Im arguing about that and have provided studies and statistics quite often in this discussion. 

No, it has nothing to do with hand holding.

And no...it has nothing to do with vaccines or vaccine passports.

 
sho nuff said:
Go look up the ID discussion in the past...Ive said it even here...ive posted the studies elsewhere.  If you limit the availability in areas of heavy minority populations...no, its not "affecting" everyone.  If you know historically a certain group does not have ID and you also limit the stations in certain areas...no, its not affecting everyone.  Yes...some laws have clearly been pushed to affect minorities at a higher rate.  Yes...Im arguing about that and have provided studies and statistics quite often in this discussion. 

No, it has nothing to do with hand holding.

And no...it has nothing to do with vaccines or vaccine passports.
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Well I think not having an ID is unacceptable in this country, so I support programs that push all Americans to get one.   There is MORE THAN enough time to get a voter ID.  Plenty of time.  

 
IvanKaramazov said:
Provide pretty good evidence that the person casting a ballot is who they say they are.

But that's not important.  If a person decides that voter ID requirements don't add anything to our current system, that's fine.  My main objection for the purposes of this thread is the "black people can't manage their own lives efficiently enough to acquire IDs" argument, which is obviously racist and notably completely absent from the discussion of vaccine mandates.  
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I agree that it really should not be difficult to get a voter ID, and it would not be a problem for me to go get one, but it just seems like something that solves a problem that doesn't exist.  Also with mail-in ballots becoming the norm, I don't see how an ID even gets checked.  For all the talk of people making fake ballots, or voting under others' identities, it's as if they never got into a bar in college before they were 21

 
Dickies said:
I agree that it really should not be difficult to get a voter ID, and it would not be a problem for me to go get one, but it just seems like something that solves a problem that doesn't exist.  Also with mail-in ballots becoming the norm, I don't see how an ID even gets checked.  For all the talk of people making fake ballots, or voting under others' identities, it's as if they never got into a bar in college before they were 21
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It will save a ton of posts in here until somebody comes up with a conspiracy about how the voter id cards are rigged too.  Nobody likes to lose and it's hard for people to accept that their opinion is in the minority.

 
‘You will see another uprising’: Black Lives Matter says ‘the vaccination passport is not a free passport to racism’

https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2021/09/21/you-will-see-another-uprising-black-lives-matter-says-the-vaccination-passport-is-not-a-free-passport-to-racism/

Who saw this coming? Oh yeah, all of us.

Chivona Newsome, the other co-founder of BLM NYC, targeted Mayor Bill de Blasio’s vaccine mandate more specifically in her remarks. She implied that the edict has resulted in repeats of historical episodes when blacks were disenfranchised from society.

…

“Seventy-two percent of black people in this city from ages 18 to 44 are unvaccinated. So what is going to stop the Gestapo, I mean the NYPD, from rounding up black people, from snatching them off the train, off the bus?” she added.

Chivona Newsome suggested that if these incidents continue, Black Lives Matter could revolt to exact justice like it did after George Floyd’s death.

“We’re putting this city on notice, that your mandate will not be another racist social-distance practice. Black people are not going to stand by, or you will see another uprising. And that is not a threat; that is a promise,” she said. “The vaccination passport is not a free passport to racism.”
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quick-hands said:
This is something  you just noticed?
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tonydead said:
You’re just figuring that out?  Also, you say that like it’s some fringe members or something. Chivona Newsome is cofounder of New York’s BLM chapter. 
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Maybe this can bridge the racial gap. BLM can rally with all the other anti-vax mandate folks.

Maybe co-sponsor some events with DeSantis or put up some booths at Sturgis next year. 

 
The General said:
Deflection? From what? I think these particular statements from this BLM person absurd if that is what you are going on about.

Anyways Vaccine Passports aren't popular in Red States it seems. I think we have some common ground here for these seemingly disparate groups. 
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No you don’t. 
You have to deflect from your dumb lunatic fringe comment after it was pointed out that they are the head of BLM NY chapter. 
Everyone sees through your BS, it’s some of the worst in here. 

 
tonydead said:
No you don’t. 
You have to deflect from your dumb lunatic fringe comment after it was pointed out that they are the head of BLM NY chapter. 
Everyone sees through your BS, it’s some of the worst in here. 
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You are telling me what I think :lol:  Lunatic fringe, what?

Listen to this dude and read the comments. This could be some dude named Bubba at WalMart in rural Kentucky. Common ground. A savvy pot stirrer politician worth their salt could do some work here. 

I'd want this guy to shut the #### up or leave if I was eating in that place.

 
sho nuff said:
Go look up the ID discussion in the past...Ive said it even here...ive posted the studies elsewhere.  If you limit the availability in areas of heavy minority populations...no, its not "affecting" everyone.  If you know historically a certain group does not have ID and you also limit the stations in certain areas...no, its not affecting everyone.  Yes...some laws have clearly been pushed to affect minorities at a higher rate.  Yes...Im arguing about that and have provided studies and statistics quite often in this discussion. 

No, it has nothing to do with hand holding.

And no...it has nothing to do with vaccines or vaccine passports.
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N.C. Judges Strike Down A Voter ID Law They Say Discriminates Against Black Voters

 
supermike80 said:
Well I think not having an ID is unacceptable in this country, so I support programs that push all Americans to get one.   There is MORE THAN enough time to get a voter ID.  Plenty of time.  
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What about requiring all citizens to vote, or at least actively reject a ballot provided to them?

 
the moops said:
Terrible. And WTF, only 28% of 18-44 year old black folk in NYC are vaccinated. Terrible
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I'm not a fan of BLM.   I don't know how much I trust their statisitical analysis after hearing some of the claims they made during the summer of love.

I am pro passport protest if done in the right way, which I highly doubt this will be done in the right way.

NYC is foolish if they didn't see this coming, and this has the potential to get ugly.  

 
Max Power said:
‘You will see another uprising’: Black Lives Matter says ‘the vaccination passport is not a free passport to racism’

https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2021/09/21/you-will-see-another-uprising-black-lives-matter-says-the-vaccination-passport-is-not-a-free-passport-to-racism/

Who saw this coming? Oh yeah, all of us.

Chivona Newsome, the other co-founder of BLM NYC, targeted Mayor Bill de Blasio’s vaccine mandate more specifically in her remarks. She implied that the edict has resulted in repeats of historical episodes when blacks were disenfranchised from society.

…

“Seventy-two percent of black people in this city from ages 18 to 44 are unvaccinated. So what is going to stop the Gestapo, I mean the NYPD, from rounding up black people, from snatching them off the train, off the bus?” she added.

Chivona Newsome suggested that if these incidents continue, Black Lives Matter could revolt to exact justice like it did after George Floyd’s death.

“We’re putting this city on notice, that your mandate will not be another racist social-distance practice. Black people are not going to stand by, or you will see another uprising. And that is not a threat; that is a promise,” she said. “The vaccination passport is not a free passport to racism.”
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This is a really dumb position to take and I say the same thing when politicians take the same position or when white people take the same position.  Two sides of the same coin.  But the old adage continues to ring true "Politics makes strange bed fellows".

 
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