Value of Broncos players post-Lloyd (1 Viewer)

[killrobotkill]

Tebow - his stock goes slightly down, but as a rushing QB capable of 50 yds/1 TD on the ground every week, he still has a high enough floor to be considered a QB1.

Decker - stock is up, but I would be careful of him getting WR1 treatment from defenses and rolling over their best corner to Decker week after week

Royal - stock is slightly up, just because he'll have to see a greater share of targets now. But there's still a chance he gets traded as well, which could obviously impact him either way.

Thomas - stock way up - probably the biggest winner here. With his size and skills, he's the best candidate to take Lloyd's place in the offense and catch the wild balls Tebow will be throwing. He won't catch as many as Lloyd would, but he'll get a share, and I think this would make him a solid FF starter going forward.

McGahee - no real impact, although his stock already took a big hit when Tebow was named the starter.

Thoughts?

 

[ponchsox]

If you owned both Decker and Thomas you would start Thomas?

 

[rickyg]

If you owned both Decker and Thomas you would start Thomas?

I Do own both. Initially I think you have to start decker over Thomas and take a wait and see approach. Thomas hasn't played a down of football yet in 2012. With that said, even more ideal would be to have such goo wrs that you have th luxury to sit BOTH and wait and see what tebow does with them. I unfortunately do not have that luxury so I will likely start decker lol

 

[BroadwayG]

What about Julious Thomas?

 

[rickyg]

Btw I don't have the stats handy but didn't Lloyd miss a game this year and decker was wr1 in his absence? And didn't decker have a great game?

Decker is a stud.

 

[ponchsox]

Hopefully Thomas will help keep single coverage on Decker. I just don't know enough about Denver's offense and who Tebow will throw to, especially outside the pocket.

 

[killrobotkill]

If you owned both Decker and Thomas you would start Thomas?

I Do own both. Initially I think you have to start decker over Thomas and take a wait and see approach. Thomas hasn't played a down of football yet in 2012.

FWIW, here's rotoworld's take:

link

 

[emge]

If you owned both Decker and Thomas you would start Thomas?

I Do own both. Initially I think you have to start decker over Thomas and take a wait and see approach. Thomas hasn't played a down of football yet in 2012. With that said, even more ideal would be to have such goo wrs that you have th luxury to sit BOTH and wait and see what tebow does with them.

I unfortunately do not have that luxury so I will likely start decker lol

Nobody has played a down of football in 2012, as we are still in 2011, unless you've come from the future

 

[rickyg]

If you owned both Decker and Thomas you would start Thomas?

I Do own both. Initially I think you have to start decker over Thomas and take a wait and see approach. Thomas hasn't played a down of football yet in 2012. With that said, even more ideal would be to have such goo wrs that you have th luxury to sit BOTH and wait and see what tebow does with them.

I unfortunately do not have that luxury so I will likely start decker lol

Nobody has played a down of football in 2012, as we are still in 2011, unless you've come from the future

Haha very funny. You got me. 2011 was what I meant to type. I fat finger stuff all the time bc of my iPhone keyboard. Lol

 

[hostile]

FWIW, here's rotoworld's take:

link

... hrm... no mention of how Clayton will factor in...

 

[meatwad1]

Why did McGahee's stock crater? The Broncos are not going to run the ball anymore? What about dump off passes where he fakes the run and passes it off, methinks those might work pretty well.

I know Tebow is going to have rushing yards, but the bottom line is this. Will the Broncos move the ball or not? If they cannot move the ball, they all get bumped, if they cannot move the ball, then they are all golden.

For those who say that a running qb cannot have good rbs, exhibit 1A is Vick and McCoy.

 

[packersfan]

Why did McGahee's stock crater? The Broncos are not going to run the ball anymore? What about dump off passes where he fakes the run and passes it off, methinks those might work pretty well. I know Tebow is going to have rushing yards, but the bottom line is this. Will the Broncos move the ball or not? If they cannot move the ball, they all get bumped, if they cannot move the ball, then they are all golden.For those who say that a running qb cannot have good rbs, exhibit 1A is Vick and McCoy.

While that's true, neither Tebow nor McGahee are as good as Vick and McCoy. Carolina might be a better comparison. There you've seen Newton suck the life out of Williams and Stewart due to him (prior to yesterday) vulturing all the short TD runs. Tebow could do the same to McGahee.

 

[meatwad1]

Why did McGahee's stock crater? The Broncos are not going to run the ball anymore? What about dump off passes where he fakes the run and passes it off, methinks those might work pretty well. I know Tebow is going to have rushing yards, but the bottom line is this. Will the Broncos move the ball or not? If they cannot move the ball, they all get bumped, if they cannot move the ball, then they are all golden.For those who say that a running qb cannot have good rbs, exhibit 1A is Vick and McCoy.

While that's true, neither Tebow nor McGahee are as good as Vick and McCoy. Carolina might be a better comparison. There you've seen Newton suck the life out of Williams and Stewart due to him (prior to yesterday) vulturing all the short TD runs. Tebow could do the same to McGahee.

Eh...I just looked up the stats for when Tebow was in against the chargers. Willis got 8 carries for 61 yards. That is not bad for about a half of work. I think it is debatable as to whether Tebow/McGahee are better than Vick/McCoy. Vick has flat out sucked this year and McCoy has been steady, but it is not as if he is an all-pro talent. This is really the first time in years that McGahee is getting an honest shot, I think he would be just as good if you put him in McCoy's situation/ slot.To me the Carolina comparison is not valid because DWill and JStew truly are splitting the carries. If Willis starts to split carries with Moreno 50 /50 or even 65/35, I will probably change my tune.

 

[Sabertooth]

 

[packersfan]

McCoy is fourth in the NFL in rushing and sixth in total yards. He's a much better RB than McGahee. And Tebow isn't as good as Vick (and I'm not the biggest Vick fan either for what it's worth). He's not in Newton's class right now either for what it's worth.

And while McGahee did put up good numbers after Tebow came in, it's worth noting that when they got in the Red Zone it was Tebow who got the rushing touchdown, not McGahee.

 

[DoubleG]

Why did McGahee's stock crater? The Broncos are not going to run the ball anymore? What about dump off passes where he fakes the run and passes it off, methinks those might work pretty well.

I know Tebow is going to have rushing yards, but the bottom line is this. Will the Broncos move the ball or not? If they cannot move the ball, they all get bumped, if they cannot move the ball, then they are all golden.

For those who say that a running qb cannot have good rbs, exhibit 1A is Vick and McCoy.

While that's true, neither Tebow nor McGahee are as good as Vick and McCoy. Carolina might be a better comparison. There you've seen Newton suck the life out of Williams and Stewart due to him (prior to yesterday) vulturing all the short TD runs. Tebow could do the same to McGahee.

Eh...I just looked up the stats for when Tebow was in against the chargers. Willis got 8 carries for 61 yards. That is not bad for about a half of work.

I think it is debatable as to whether Tebow/McGahee are better than Vick/McCoy. Vick has flat out sucked this year and McCoy has been steady, but it is not as if he is an all-pro talent. This is really the first time in years that McGahee is getting an honest shot, I think he would be just as good if you put him in McCoy's situation/ slot.

To me the Carolina comparison is not valid because DWill and JStew truly are splitting the carries. If Willis starts to split carries with Moreno 50 /50 or even 65/35, I will probably change my tune.

But the Carolina comparison is valid because it's the same coach that ran that offense. Another thing to remember is that the Charger game was still using a game plan designed around Orton. The Broncos will have had two weeks to modify the offensive game plan to better fit Tebow and utilize the specific skill set he brings to the table - which incidentally are similar to that of McGahee and Moreno (i.e. running the ball).

Incidentally McGahee is not nearly as talented as DWill, JStew or McCoy, so from the stand point, his production is more easily at risk, imho.

ETA: The point I am trying to make though, is that regardless as to the split and who it's in favor of, Tebow being the starting QB hurts the RB production - however it is broken up. Even if it's McGahee 70/30 (with the 30 being Moreno), with Tebow at QB that 70/30 is going to be less than 70/30 with Orton at QB, as some of the overall rush attempts (and TDs) wil go to Tebow. More accurately, instead of being 70/30 - it might be 50/25/25 (Tebow being one of the 25% of rushes).

In terms of the WRs, I agree hat Decker gets a small bump in the near future - but Thomas stands to benefit the most, as he (if close to healthy) is the more talented WR - and most talented WR on the team.

 

[Warrior]

FWIW, here's rotoworld's take:

link

... hrm... no mention of how Clayton will factor in...

They might not even know Clayton is on the Stl Roster, considering the source.

 

[Wadsworth]

Why did McGahee's stock crater? The Broncos are not going to run the ball anymore? What about dump off passes where he fakes the run and passes it off, methinks those might work pretty well. I know Tebow is going to have rushing yards, but the bottom line is this. Will the Broncos move the ball or not? If they cannot move the ball, they all get bumped, if they cannot move the ball, then they are all golden.For those who say that a running qb cannot have good rbs, exhibit 1A is Vick and McCoy.

While that's true, neither Tebow nor McGahee are as good as Vick and McCoy. Carolina might be a better comparison. There you've seen Newton suck the life out of Williams and Stewart due to him (prior to yesterday) vulturing all the short TD runs. Tebow could do the same to McGahee.

Eh...I just looked up the stats for when Tebow was in against the chargers. Willis got 8 carries for 61 yards. That is not bad for about a half of work. I think it is debatable as to whether Tebow/McGahee are better than Vick/McCoy. Vick has flat out sucked this year and McCoy has been steady, but it is not as if he is an all-pro talent. This is really the first time in years that McGahee is getting an honest shot, I think he would be just as good if you put him in McCoy's situation/ slot.To me the Carolina comparison is not valid because DWill and JStew truly are splitting the carries. If Willis starts to split carries with Moreno 50 /50 or even 65/35, I will probably change my tune.

I own McGahee in several leagues and I am obviously going to be watching this situation very closely. But, I'm not ready to bail just yet. Tebow's presence on the field may indeed cut down on McGahee's percentage of goal line touches but if they move the ball better he could end up with a similar number of chances overall. And keep in mind, McGahee only has one rushing TD this season anyways and has still managed to put up double digit points in each of the four games he has started. So yea, Tebow getting some rushing TDs might hurt McGahee's value, but his production to date has hardly been based on rushing TDs anyways.

 

[GManiac]

In a few weeks, if he can remain healthy, Thomas will be the call. Decker will be Thomas's sidekick, not the other way around. If healthy is a huge question though. But Thomas reminds me of Brandon Marshall in a lot of ways, including this situation. Well, don't like to compare players really, but what I am saying is, Thomas if he plays will be a dominant WR. Hands down. Decker doesn't have that upside.

 

[zamboni]

In a few weeks, if he can remain healthy, Thomas will be the call. Decker will be Thomas's sidekick, not the other way around. If healthy is a huge question though. But Thomas reminds me of Brandon Marshall in a lot of ways, including this situation. Well, don't like to compare players really, but what I am saying is, Thomas if he plays will be a dominant WR. Hands down. Decker doesn't have that upside.

Just curious what you're basing this on. We have seen very little of Thomas - the guy has not been healthy at all, and now he's coming off an Achilles injury. Maybe he does have the tools, but translating that to an effective WR is another matter. And Decker already appears to be doing that.One would think that, beyond contract/monetary terms, the fact that the team was willing to get rid of Lloyd speaks to their faith in Decker, not necessarily Thomas. They don't know what they have yet with Demaryius.Just my take on it - time will tell.

 

[tenaka]

In a few weeks, if he can remain healthy, Thomas will be the call. Decker will be Thomas's sidekick, not the other way around. If healthy is a huge question though. But Thomas reminds me of Brandon Marshall in a lot of ways, including this situation. Well, don't like to compare players really, but what I am saying is, Thomas if he plays will be a dominant WR. Hands down. Decker doesn't have that upside.

Just curious what you're basing this on. We have seen very little of Thomas - the guy has not been healthy at all, and now he's coming off an Achilles injury. Maybe he does have the tools, but translating that to an effective WR is another matter. And Decker already appears to be doing that.One would think that, beyond contract/monetary terms, the fact that the team was willing to get rid of Lloyd speaks to their faith in Decker, not necessarily Thomas. They don't know what they have yet with Demaryius.Just my take on it - time will tell.

I don't know his injury history before the NFL so I don't know if saying he 'hasn't been healthy' is accurate. But from college and what little action he saw last year, Thomas is big, strong, fast and quick. Not quite a Calvin Johnson, but Marshall comparisons in athleticism sound about right. I think 'a few weeks' is a bit fast for him taking over as the #1. We could easily see Decker as the #1 for the rest of the year while Thomas gets in game shape and up to speed on the NFL game. But thinking Dynasty, I can definitely see him taking over as the top guy at some point.

 

[Lash]

he tore his achilles, in about 5 threads since then i've asked anybody to name me a WR1 after they tore an achilles

maybe there is one but i'm still waiting for his name

 

[tenaka]

Hines Ward

 

[DoubleG]

Hines Ward

 

[tenaka]

Hines Ward

He lost it when he was a kid. Not just torn and repaired but he doesn't even have it at all. I remembered this from some story about him back when the Steelers won their first recent SB.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hines_Ward

When he came out of college it was discovered that Ward was missing an ACL in his left knee, which he lost during a bicycle accident during childhood

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

he tore his achilles, in about 5 threads since then i've asked anybody to name me a WR1 after they tore an achilles maybe there is one but i'm still waiting for his name

How about you give us a complete list of guys with elite skills that were under 25 when they tore their achilles and we'll go from there?

 

[BroncoFreak_2K3]

In a few weeks, if he can remain healthy, Thomas will be the call. Decker will be Thomas's sidekick, not the other way around. If healthy is a huge question though. But Thomas reminds me of Brandon Marshall in a lot of ways, including this situation. Well, don't like to compare players really, but what I am saying is, Thomas if he plays will be a dominant WR. Hands down. Decker doesn't have that upside.

Just curious what you're basing this on. We have seen very little of Thomas - the guy has not been healthy at all, and now he's coming off an Achilles injury. Maybe he does have the tools, but translating that to an effective WR is another matter. And Decker already appears to be doing that.One would think that, beyond contract/monetary terms, the fact that the team was willing to get rid of Lloyd speaks to their faith in Decker, not necessarily Thomas. They don't know what they have yet with Demaryius.Just my take on it - time will tell.

Im with zamboni on this one

 

[ninerfanatic492000]

i agree with the FBG podcast that all we've ever seen from D.Thomas is that he's a really big/fast guy who can run 9/fly patterns and b/c of his size go up and get the ball. i'd say he's prolly about 1/5 as polished as Calvin and 5x as injury prone.

Did anyone else catch the John Fox interview where he was asked if he'd change the offense more towards Florida's to suit Tebow? First he said something like they didn't change much between what they'd run for Orton for last game when he came in, but they'd be looking at every option going forward. now Fox is as conservative as they come, but now they have definetly hitched themselves to Tebow and seeing what Cam has done..........who knows? If they would run just a sampling more of spread i'd bump up Royal as i think that would suit his skills better.

 

[Sultans]

In a few weeks, if he can remain healthy, Thomas will be the call. Decker will be Thomas's sidekick, not the other way around. If healthy is a huge question though. But Thomas reminds me of Brandon Marshall in a lot of ways, including this situation. Well, don't like to compare players really, but what I am saying is, Thomas if he plays will be a dominant WR. Hands down. Decker doesn't have that upside.

Matt Waldman had Decker ranked ahead of Thomas before Thomas's injury. Decker is legit and is certainly the 1 Bronco WR to own now.

 

[ninerfanatic492000]

if Danario can prove to play a resonable amount of snaps or get a good ratio with Gibson, why not trot Clayton out there in the slot? the slot in a spread offense IMHO seems like a position a guy like Clayton was made more(like a Eddie Royal). quicker than fast smooth athlete with pretty reliable hands and body control(somewhat like Lloyd, but Lloyd has much better outside break or release ability). i know they want something from the rookie's but a healthy clayton just has more to offer.

 

[sycamore]

Why did McGahee's stock crater? The Broncos are not going to run the ball anymore? What about dump off passes where he fakes the run and passes it off, methinks those might work pretty well. I know Tebow is going to have rushing yards, but the bottom line is this. Will the Broncos move the ball or not? If they cannot move the ball, they all get bumped, if they cannot move the ball, then they are all golden.For those who say that a running qb cannot have good rbs, exhibit 1A is Vick and McCoy.

While that's true, neither Tebow nor McGahee are as good as Vick and McCoy. Carolina might be a better comparison. There you've seen Newton suck the life out of Williams and Stewart due to him (prior to yesterday) vulturing all the short TD runs. Tebow could do the same to McGahee.

I don't agree with the logic here. McGahee has had 3 100-yard games and a whopping 1 touchdown. Orton hurt McGahee's ability to not get any TDs by not making drives. If Tebow's successful moving the ball, it helps McGahee imo.

 

[Run It Up]

So whats the Floor Ceiling of a QB capable of rushing for 50/1 TD a week that throws 20 passes, completes 10 for ~1 TD and ~3 INTs?

 

[Xue]

Hines Ward

He lost it when he was a kid. Not just torn and repaired but he doesn't even have it at all. I remembered this from some story about him back when the Steelers won their first recent SB.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hines_Ward

When he came out of college it was discovered that Ward was missing an ACL in his left knee, which he lost during a bicycle accident during childhood

ACL isn't Achilles.

 

[Kenny Powers]

Hines Ward

He lost it when he was a kid. Not just torn and repaired but he doesn't even have it at all. I remembered this from some story about him back when the Steelers won their first recent SB.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hines_Ward

When he came out of college it was discovered that Ward was missing an ACL in his left knee, which he lost during a bicycle accident during childhood

An Achilles and an ACL are not the same thing, Dr. Pepper Before I read your link I was thinking "how the hell could Ward even walk without an achilles"

 

[Kenny Powers]

Why did McGahee's stock crater? The Broncos are not going to run the ball anymore? What about dump off passes where he fakes the run and passes it off, methinks those might work pretty well. I know Tebow is going to have rushing yards, but the bottom line is this. Will the Broncos move the ball or not? If they cannot move the ball, they all get bumped, if they cannot move the ball, then they are all golden.For those who say that a running qb cannot have good rbs, exhibit 1A is Vick and McCoy.

While that's true, neither Tebow nor McGahee are as good as Vick and McCoy. Carolina might be a better comparison. There you've seen Newton suck the life out of Williams and Stewart due to him (prior to yesterday) vulturing all the short TD runs. Tebow could do the same to McGahee.

Eh...I just looked up the stats for when Tebow was in against the chargers. Willis got 8 carries for 61 yards. That is not bad for about a half of work. I think it is debatable as to whether Tebow/McGahee are better than Vick/McCoy. Vick has flat out sucked this year and McCoy has been steady, but it is not as if he is an all-pro talent. This is really the first time in years that McGahee is getting an honest shot, I think he would be just as good if you put him in McCoy's situation/ slot.To me the Carolina comparison is not valid because DWill and JStew truly are splitting the carries. If Willis starts to split carries with Moreno 50 /50 or even 65/35, I will probably change my tune.

I own McGahee in several leagues and I am obviously going to be watching this situation very closely. But, I'm not ready to bail just yet. Tebow's presence on the field may indeed cut down on McGahee's percentage of goal line touches but if they move the ball better he could end up with a similar number of chances overall. And keep in mind, McGahee only has one rushing TD this season anyways and has still managed to put up double digit points in each of the four games he has started. So yea, Tebow getting some rushing TDs might hurt McGahee's value, but his production to date has hardly been based on rushing TDs anyways.

I was essentially going to say the same thing.

 

[packersfan]

Why did McGahee's stock crater? The Broncos are not going to run the ball anymore? What about dump off passes where he fakes the run and passes it off, methinks those might work pretty well. I know Tebow is going to have rushing yards, but the bottom line is this. Will the Broncos move the ball or not? If they cannot move the ball, they all get bumped, if they cannot move the ball, then they are all golden.For those who say that a running qb cannot have good rbs, exhibit 1A is Vick and McCoy.

While that's true, neither Tebow nor McGahee are as good as Vick and McCoy. Carolina might be a better comparison. There you've seen Newton suck the life out of Williams and Stewart due to him (prior to yesterday) vulturing all the short TD runs. Tebow could do the same to McGahee.

I don't agree with the logic here. McGahee has had 3 100-yard games and a whopping 1 touchdown. Orton hurt McGahee's ability to not get any TDs by not making drives. If Tebow's successful moving the ball, it helps McGahee imo.

It may help McGahee put up good yards but Tebow's primary skill is his mobility. It's logical to assume he's going to vulture TD runs. He's already got the one rushing TD the team had in the Red Zone in his first significant action of the season. In the three games Tebow started last season the Broncos had four rushing TDs. Tebow had three of them. I don't see any reason at this time to believe that type of ratio will change unless Tebow spent the bye week transforming himself into a dropback pocket passer.

 

[ponchsox]

Zero. Zilch. Nada. None of the Denver WR are worth starting. Tebow sucks.