Verizon required to give ALL call data to NSA (2 Viewers)

[NCCommish]

over/under on number of posts until Obama gets blamed?

How can the President possibly evade responsibility for this sort of thing? It's his agency.

Exactly. It's also his policy. He has done nothing to shrink the imperial presidency and everything to expand it. This is Bush's 4th term as far as I am concerned at least in this area. Massive failure by Obama to even attempt to deliver on the promises he made the first time around.

While I agree with your assessment but do you really see any President relinquishing that sort of power? Once Pandoras box is open then thats it.

Probably not, no.

My biggest problem with this story isn't actually the collecting-phone-records part. I'm much more bothered by the fact that stuff like this can be done in a secret court system in which we don't even get to see the government's justification for this action or the way in which the government is interpreting the law. I understand the rationale for why FISA courts exist, but this is pretty obviously a situation that's ripe for even worse abuses than this one.

FISA is just a rubber stamp court behind closed doors. It's essentially meaningless.

 

[Slapdash]

Featured story on CNN, Huff and Politico. Buried on Foxnews and Drudge.

Fox News should be ashamed of themselves http://www.foxnews.com/

Nice of them to finally join the party after ten years.

 

[GroveDiesel]

over/under on number of posts until Obama gets blamed?

How can the President possibly evade responsibility for this sort of thing? It's his agency.

Exactly. It's also his policy. He has done nothing to shrink the imperial presidency and everything to expand it. This is Bush's 4th term as far as I am concerned at least in this area. Massive failure by Obama to even attempt to deliver on the promises he made the first time around.

While I agree with your assessment but do you really see any President relinquishing that sort of power? Once Pandoras box is open then thats it.

I don't disagree, but I would think that there would be a bit more outrage rather than shoulder shrugging since THIS President specifically campaigned on reigning this stuff in with the notion of Hope & Change.Either this Presidency is going to create an unbelievable generation of willful blindness, or one of incredible cynicism. So many young people got caught up in the Hope & Change euphoria and truly bought into it. The question is whether they still buy into it despite Obama breaking virtually every promise about being different, or whether their hope for change has been forever extinguished by cynicism.

 

[Slapdash]

over/under on number of posts until Obama gets blamed?

How can the President possibly evade responsibility for this sort of thing? It's his agency.

Exactly. It's also his policy. He has done nothing to shrink the imperial presidency and everything to expand it. This is Bush's 4th term as far as I am concerned at least in this area. Massive failure by Obama to even attempt to deliver on the promises he made the first time around.

While I agree with your assessment but do you really see any President relinquishing that sort of power? Once Pandoras box is open then thats it.

I don't disagree, but I would think that there would be a bit more outrage rather than shoulder shrugging since THIS President specifically campaigned on reigning this stuff in with the notion of Hope & Change.Either this Presidency is going to create an unbelievable generation of willful blindness, or one of incredible cynicism. So many young people got caught up in the Hope & Change euphoria and truly bought into it. The question is whether they still buy into it despite Obama breaking virtually every promise about being different, or whether their hope for change has been forever extinguished by cynicism.

I don't recall Obama ever pretending he was going to reign in the police state.

 

[NCCommish]

over/under on number of posts until Obama gets blamed?

How can the President possibly evade responsibility for this sort of thing? It's his agency.

Exactly. It's also his policy. He has done nothing to shrink the imperial presidency and everything to expand it. This is Bush's 4th term as far as I am concerned at least in this area. Massive failure by Obama to even attempt to deliver on the promises he made the first time around.

While I agree with your assessment but do you really see any President relinquishing that sort of power? Once Pandoras box is open then thats it.

I don't disagree, but I would think that there would be a bit more outrage rather than shoulder shrugging since THIS President specifically campaigned on reigning this stuff in with the notion of Hope & Change.Either this Presidency is going to create an unbelievable generation of willful blindness, or one of incredible cynicism. So many young people got caught up in the Hope & Change euphoria and truly bought into it. The question is whether they still buy into it despite Obama breaking virtually every promise about being different, or whether their hope for change has been forever extinguished by cynicism.

I don't recall Obama ever pretending he was going to reign in the police state.

Yeah he did. He talked all the time about rolling back the imperial presidency and security overreach.

 

[pantherclub]

over/under on number of posts until Obama gets blamed?

How can the President possibly evade responsibility for this sort of thing? It's his agency.

Exactly. It's also his policy. He has done nothing to shrink the imperial presidency and everything to expand it. This is Bush's 4th term as far as I am concerned at least in this area. Massive failure by Obama to even attempt to deliver on the promises he made the first time around.

While I agree with your assessment but do you really see any President relinquishing that sort of power? Once Pandoras box is open then thats it.

I don't disagree, but I would think that there would be a bit more outrage rather than shoulder shrugging since THIS President specifically campaigned on reigning this stuff in with the notion of Hope & Change.Either this Presidency is going to create an unbelievable generation of willful blindness, or one of incredible cynicism. So many young people got caught up in the Hope & Change euphoria and truly bought into it. The question is whether they still buy into it despite Obama breaking virtually every promise about being different, or whether their hope for change has been forever extinguished by cynicism.

I don't recall Obama ever pretending he was going to reign in the police state.

transparency

 

[Slapdash]

over/under on number of posts until Obama gets blamed?

How can the President possibly evade responsibility for this sort of thing? It's his agency.

Exactly. It's also his policy. He has done nothing to shrink the imperial presidency and everything to expand it. This is Bush's 4th term as far as I am concerned at least in this area. Massive failure by Obama to even attempt to deliver on the promises he made the first time around.

While I agree with your assessment but do you really see any President relinquishing that sort of power? Once Pandoras box is open then thats it.

I don't disagree, but I would think that there would be a bit more outrage rather than shoulder shrugging since THIS President specifically campaigned on reigning this stuff in with the notion of Hope & Change.Either this Presidency is going to create an unbelievable generation of willful blindness, or one of incredible cynicism. So many young people got caught up in the Hope & Change euphoria and truly bought into it. The question is whether they still buy into it despite Obama breaking virtually every promise about being different, or whether their hope for change has been forever extinguished by cynicism.

I don't recall Obama ever pretending he was going to reign in the police state.

Yeah he did. He talked all the time about rolling back the imperial presidency and security overreach.

He voted for the Patriot Act, FISA courts, and giving telecoms immunity for this type of behavior when he was in the Senate. His intentions were clear as day.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Lyndsay Graham on FoxNews.... "You don't have anything to worry about."

 

[pantherclub]

What should I be worried about then?

 

[Slapdash]

What should I be worried about then?

Are you doing anything that is or could become wrong?

 

[pantherclub]

What should I be worried about then?

Are you doing anything that is or could become wrong?

every day

 

[BigSteelThrill]

What should I be worried about then?

Are you doing anything that is or could become wrong?

What youre actually doing has no bearing. Law enforcement gets people wrongly convicted every single day in this country.

They don't need a single bit of info for pantherclub without cause... the Constitution implicitly grants a right to privacy against governmental intrusion.

 

[DiStefano]

over/under on number of posts until Obama gets blamed?

How can the President possibly evade responsibility for this sort of thing? It's his agency.

Exactly. It's also his policy. He has done nothing to shrink the imperial presidency and everything to expand it. This is Bush's 4th term as far as I am concerned at least in this area. Massive failure by Obama to even attempt to deliver on the promises he made the first time around.

While I agree with your assessment but do you really see any President relinquishing that sort of power? Once Pandoras box is open then thats it.

I don't disagree, but I would think that there would be a bit more outrage rather than shoulder shrugging since THIS President specifically campaigned on reigning this stuff in with the notion of Hope & Change.Either this Presidency is going to create an unbelievable generation of willful blindness, or one of incredible cynicism. So many young people got caught up in the Hope & Change euphoria and truly bought into it. The question is whether they still buy into it despite Obama breaking virtually every promise about being different, or whether their hope for change has been forever extinguished by cynicism.

I don't recall Obama ever pretending he was going to reign in the police state.

I think he wanted to reign in the police state.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

As long as you continue to obey you have nothing to worry about.

 

[Black Box]

I don't recall Obama ever pretending he was going to reign in the police state.

I think he wanted to reign in the police state.

"Oh, you guys thought I said "rein in the police state?"

 

[phrozen]

I'm more concerned with the government than I am with terrorists.

goodposting

hifive

 

[lod01]

This comes as zero surprise. Just the tip of the iceberg fellas. Been going on for a long time.I wish this would see half the outrage the DoJ's investigation of leaks did.

So I guess this is no big deal then. We are all here still posting on this board.

 

[Clifford]

I'm more concerned with the government than I am with terrorists.

Yep. We've now had a full blown fascist in the White House for four consecutive terms.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

This comes as zero surprise. Just the tip of the iceberg fellas. Been going on for a long time.I wish this would see half the outrage the DoJ's investigation of leaks did.

So I guess this is no big deal then. We are all here still posting on this board.

Oh they want us posting to message boards. Just another information collection vector to them.

 

[humpback]

over/under on number of posts until Obama gets blamed?

How can the President possibly evade responsibility for this sort of thing? It's his agency.

Exactly. It's also his policy. He has done nothing to shrink the imperial presidency and everything to expand it. This is Bush's 4th term as far as I am concerned at least in this area. Massive failure by Obama to even attempt to deliver on the promises he made the first time around.

While I agree with your assessment but do you really see any President relinquishing that sort of power? Once Pandoras box is open then thats it.

I don't disagree, but I would think that there would be a bit more outrage rather than shoulder shrugging since THIS President specifically campaigned on reigning this stuff in with the notion of Hope & Change.Either this Presidency is going to create an unbelievable generation of willful blindness, or one of incredible cynicism. So many young people got caught up in the Hope & Change euphoria and truly bought into it. The question is whether they still buy into it despite Obama breaking virtually every promise about being different, or whether their hope for change has been forever extinguished by cynicism.

I don't recall Obama ever pretending he was going to reign in the police state.

Yeah he did. He talked all the time about rolling back the imperial presidency and security overreach.

He voted for the Patriot Act, FISA courts, and giving telecoms immunity for this type of behavior when he was in the Senate. His intentions were clear as day.

Sure, his intentions were to win the election, just like every other politician.

FWIW, he actually co-sponsored and voted for the bill to strike immunity as a Senator.

 

[Slapdash]

over/under on number of posts until Obama gets blamed?

How can the President possibly evade responsibility for this sort of thing? It's his agency.

Exactly. It's also his policy. He has done nothing to shrink the imperial presidency and everything to expand it. This is Bush's 4th term as far as I am concerned at least in this area. Massive failure by Obama to even attempt to deliver on the promises he made the first time around.

While I agree with your assessment but do you really see any President relinquishing that sort of power? Once Pandoras box is open then thats it.

I don't disagree, but I would think that there would be a bit more outrage rather than shoulder shrugging since THIS President specifically campaigned on reigning this stuff in with the notion of Hope & Change.Either this Presidency is going to create an unbelievable generation of willful blindness, or one of incredible cynicism. So many young people got caught up in the Hope & Change euphoria and truly bought into it. The question is whether they still buy into it despite Obama breaking virtually every promise about being different, or whether their hope for change has been forever extinguished by cynicism.

I don't recall Obama ever pretending he was going to reign in the police state.

Yeah he did. He talked all the time about rolling back the imperial presidency and security overreach.

He voted for the Patriot Act, FISA courts, and giving telecoms immunity for this type of behavior when he was in the Senate. His intentions were clear as day.

Sure, his intentions were to win the election, just like every other politician. FWIW, he actually co-sponsored and voted for the bill to strike immunity as a Senator.

link?

 

[Slapdash]

I don't recall Obama ever pretending he was going to reign in the police state.

I think he wanted to reign in the police state.

"Oh, you guys thought I said "rein in the police state?"

 

[B-Deep]

This is really simple and I cannot belive people do not understand it

no one blames their guy

Bush started all of this but to Bush supporters Obama is at fault for not stopping what their guy started

Obama has continues it and expanded it, but to his supporters Bush opened the box and bears the blame

If a GOP president comes next and continues these policies then his supporters will say "how can you complain when your guy did the same thing"

even when outraged about what the government is doing many (maybe most) people still cannot bear to risk having their party come off as the bad guys, no matter what they do the other side must be worse

and it works both ways

 

[pantherclub]

This is really simple and I cannot belive people do not understand itno one blames their guyBush started all of this but to Bush supporters Obama is at fault for not stopping what their guy startedObama has continues it and expanded it, but to his supporters Bush opened the box and bears the blameIf a GOP president comes next and continues these policies then his supporters will say "how can you complain when your guy did the same thing"even when outraged about what the government is doing many (maybe most) people still cannot bear to risk having their party come off as the bad guys, no matter what they do the other side must be worseand it works both ways

good post

but I still dont understand what the big deal about this is

 

[Slapdash]

This comes as zero surprise. Just the tip of the iceberg fellas. Been going on for a long time.I wish this would see half the outrage the DoJ's investigation of leaks did.

So I guess this is no big deal then. We are all here still posting on this board.

It is a huge deal.

 

[humpback]

He voted for the Patriot Act, FISA courts, and giving telecoms immunity for this type of behavior when he was in the Senate. His intentions were clear as day.

Sure, his intentions were to win the election, just like every other politician.FWIW, he actually co-sponsored and voted for the bill to strike immunity as a Senator.

link?

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d110:SP3907:

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=2&vote=00015#top

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

I do blame Obama for allowing this to go on, but it's not like I believe Romney or McCain would have restricted it at all.

 

[pantherclub]

This comes as zero surprise. Just the tip of the iceberg fellas. Been going on for a long time.I wish this would see half the outrage the DoJ's investigation of leaks did.

So I guess this is no big deal then. We are all here still posting on this board.

It is a huge deal.

I will ask again, how does this affect your average Joe fantasy footballer?

 

[Andy Dufresne]

but I still dont understand what the big deal about this is

Government surveillance of it's citizenry? What could go wrong?

:coughstasicough:

 

[Fennis]

I do blame Obama for allowing this to go on, but it's not like I believe Romney or McCain would have restricted it at all.

Next time vote Gary Johnson

 

[phrozen]

I do blame Obama for allowing this to go on, but it's not like I believe Romney or McCain would have restricted it at all.

goodposting

both parties are to blame for this nonsense. The Patriot Act started this and now Obama is continuing the erosion of our civil liberties in the name of national security. Romney and McCain would have done the same thing too.

 

[NCCommish]

This is really simple and I cannot belive people do not understand itno one blames their guyBush started all of this but to Bush supporters Obama is at fault for not stopping what their guy startedObama has continues it and expanded it, but to his supporters Bush opened the box and bears the blameIf a GOP president comes next and continues these policies then his supporters will say "how can you complain when your guy did the same thing"even when outraged about what the government is doing many (maybe most) people still cannot bear to risk having their party come off as the bad guys, no matter what they do the other side must be worseand it works both ways

I have no problem blaming Obama for continuing the stuff I didn't like under Bush.

 

[Slapdash]

He voted for the Patriot Act, FISA courts, and giving telecoms immunity for this type of behavior when he was in the Senate. His intentions were clear as day.

Sure, his intentions were to win the election, just like every other politician.FWIW, he actually co-sponsored and voted for the bill to strike immunity as a Senator.

link?

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d110:SP3907:

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=2&vote=00015#top

Ok, but he no longer supported the bill after the primaries. I see.

 

[NCCommish]

This comes as zero surprise. Just the tip of the iceberg fellas. Been going on for a long time.I wish this would see half the outrage the DoJ's investigation of leaks did.

So I guess this is no big deal then. We are all here still posting on this board.

It is a huge deal.

I will ask again, how does this affect your average Joe fantasy footballer?

It is an attack on liberties people have died to protect for you. You throw them away at your own risk.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

It's pretty simple really. Surveillance can (and likely would) lead to control.

 

[Slapdash]

This comes as zero surprise. Just the tip of the iceberg fellas. Been going on for a long time.I wish this would see half the outrage the DoJ's investigation of leaks did.

So I guess this is no big deal then. We are all here still posting on this board.

It is a huge deal.

I will ask again, how does this affect your average Joe fantasy footballer?

Every communication they make that could possibly be stored is being stored.

 

[Fennis]

It's pretty simple really. Surveillance can (and likely would) lead to control.

Spoiler

you're only saying that because they are watching

 

[humpback]

He voted for the Patriot Act, FISA courts, and giving telecoms immunity for this type of behavior when he was in the Senate. His intentions were clear as day.

Sure, his intentions were to win the election, just like every other politician.FWIW, he actually co-sponsored and voted for the bill to strike immunity as a Senator.

link?

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d110:SP3907:

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=2&vote=00015#top

Ok, but he no longer supported the bill after the primaries. I see.

That must be the "change" part.

 

[pantherclub]

This comes as zero surprise. Just the tip of the iceberg fellas. Been going on for a long time.I wish this would see half the outrage the DoJ's investigation of leaks did.

So I guess this is no big deal then. We are all here still posting on this board.

It is a huge deal.

I will ask again, how does this affect your average Joe fantasy footballer?

Every communication they make that could possibly be stored is being stored.

That has been going on for a decade at least now and yet nothing has come of it.

 

[phrozen]

couple this with the government demanding that Google turn over user information in the name of national security

I'll go ahead and order some extra guy guy fawkes masks

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

This is nothing particularly new. This has been going on for seven years under the auspices of the FISA authority, and every member of the United States Senate has been advised of this.

 

[phrozen]

This comes as zero surprise. Just the tip of the iceberg fellas. Been going on for a long time.I wish this would see half the outrage the DoJ's investigation of leaks did.

So I guess this is no big deal then. We are all here still posting on this board.

It is a huge deal.

I will ask again, how does this affect your average Joe fantasy footballer?

Every communication they make that could possibly be stored is being stored.

That has been going on for a decade at least now and yet nothing has come of it.

do you really think that the government would release what it is doing or has done with the data to the general public? Just because you haven't seen anything come from this does not mean that nothing has been done

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Under the spreading chestnut tree
I sold you and you sold me
There lie they, and here lie we
Under the spreading chestnut tree

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

Under the spreading chestnut tree

I sold you and you sold me

There lie they, and here lie we

Under the spreading chestnut tree

Is that from Kardashian Konfidential?

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Under the spreading chestnut tree

I sold you and you sold me

There lie they, and here lie we

Under the spreading chestnut tree

Is that from Kardashian Konfidential?

Not originally.

 

[Black Box]

Under the spreading chestnut tree

I sold you and you sold me

There lie they, and here lie we

Under the spreading chestnut tree

Running NSA scan on communication. . . . . . . .

 

[Slapdash]

This comes as zero surprise. Just the tip of the iceberg fellas. Been going on for a long time.I wish this would see half the outrage the DoJ's investigation of leaks did.

So I guess this is no big deal then. We are all here still posting on this board.

It is a huge deal.

I will ask again, how does this affect your average Joe fantasy footballer?

Every communication they make that could possibly be stored is being stored.

That has been going on for a decade at least now and yet nothing has come of it.

You don't think anything has come of the government storing as much information as possible about each citizen?

 

[Black Box]

This is nothing particularly new. This has been going on for seven years under the auspices of the FISA authority, and every member of the United States Senate has been advised of this.

To my knowledge we have not had any citizen who has registered a complaint relative to the gathering of this information, and it is simply what we call 'meta data.'

Well, gee, Saxby. Do you think there haven't been any complaints because this was a super-secret program that no citizens even knew about until today?

 

[[icon]]

I'm more concerned with the government than I am with terrorists.

At this point I'm starting to agree...

 

[Slapdash]

This is nothing particularly new. This has been going on for seven years under the auspices of the FISA authority, and every member of the United States Senate has been advised of this.

>>To my knowledge we have not had any citizen who has registered a complaint relative to the gathering of this information, and it is simply what we call 'meta data.'

Well, gee, Saxby. Do you think there haven't been any complaints because this was a super-secret program that no citizens even knew about until today?

at the bold.

The idea that nobody has complained is straight up bull####.