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Verizon required to give ALL call data to NSA (1 Viewer)

Meet PRISM’s little brother: Socmint

For the past two years, a tight-lipped and little talked about unit within the Metropolitan Police has been conducting blanket surveillance of British citizens' public social media conversations. Following an unintentional leak and a detailed investigation, we are finally able to see some of the capabilities of this 17-man team—some of which are truly alarming.

The PRISM scandal engulfing US and UK intelligence agencies has blown the debate wide open over what privacy means in the digital age and whether the Internet risks becoming a kind of Stasi 2.0. The extent of the UK's involvement in this type of mass surveillance—which already appears exhaustive—shows just what a potential intelligence goldmine social media data can be.

But the monitoring of our online trail goes beyond the eavesdroppers in GCHQ.

For the past two years, a secretive unit in the Metropolitan Police has been developing the tools for blanket surveillance of the public's social media conversations. Operating 24 hours a day, seven days a week, a staff of 17 officers in the National Domestic Extremism Unit (NDEU) has been scanning the public's tweets, YouTube videos, Facebook profiles, and anything else UK citizens post in the public online sphere.

The intelligence-gathering technique—sometimes known as Social Media Intelligence (Socmint)—has been used in conjunction with an alarming array of sophisticated analytical tools.

"Sentiment analysis" that can determine your mood, "horizon scanning" that tries to pre-empt disorder and crime, facial recognition software that can track down individuals, geo-location that is able to pinpoint your whereabouts, and profiling that can map who you are and what circles you move in. All innovative techniques used in the private sector, and all adapted for law enforcement and surveillance.

As the head of open source intelligence in the Met, Umut Ertogral revealed in May during what he intended to be a private presentation at an Australian security conference [according to a couple of Met sources, conference organizers "forgot" to tell the audience that the talk was off the record]:

"[social media] almost acts like CCTV on the ground for us. Just like the private sector use it for marketing and branding, we've developed something to listen in and see what the public are thinking."

The unit has been building and honing this new style of surveillance ever since the 2011 London riots.

While the NSA's PRISM program collects data that is supposed to be hidden from the outside world, this form of open source intelligence eavesdrops on the data you haven't made private—be it intentional or through ignorance. But several privacy groups and think tanks—including Big Brother Watch, Demos, and Privacy International—have voiced concerns that the Met's use of Socmint lacks the proper legislative oversight to prevent abuses from occurring.

"The issue of legal protection and privacy sits at the heart of all this," explains Carl Miller, research director and co-founder of the Centre for the Analysis of Social Media, which has been leading the research into Socmint. "What we really need is a clear and enabling framework, both legislation and regulation, which can explicitly inform people when and why the police can collect this kind of information."

Current legislation intended to protect the public from abuses, like the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act (RIPA), were passed at a time when Facebook and Twitter didn't exist.

Surveillance operations often require a ministerial sign-off or permission from a superior, but it is unclear whether targeting of public social media data requires the same level of oversight, as head of research at Privacy International Eric King points out.

"Millions of British citizens share billions of pieces of information about their lives with social networking sites every day," he explains. "While RIPA authorizations are required for most methods of offline surveillance, the police are refusing to come clean about what checks and safeguards—if any—are in place to ensure that surveillance of online activities stays lawful and proportionate."

Challenged with these concerns, the Met still refused to go into detail about the unit but told Wired.co.uk that its use of Socmint was necessary "to protect communities."

"Police have a duty to uphold the law and prevent and detect crime," said a spokesperson from the Specialist Crime and Operations Desk. "Online channels will attract those intent on committing crime, engaged in gang activity, or communicating with rival gangs to fuel tension and threaten violence."

The Met also argued its intelligence was "publicly available material which is readily accessible to all using the Internet." But some are not so convinced this private/public dividing line is quite so clear-cut.

Dr. Daniel Trottier, a researcher in Social and Digital Media at Westminster University, argues that the sophistication of the tools able to analyse this data means we should see our public social media output in a different light.

"The perception with this kind of intelligence is that it's in the public domain, so it's no different from, say, searching through newspaper articles," he elaborates. "But this analysis shows a lack of familiarity with the technology involved and the extent to which it can identify and analyze people.

"There's a psychologist in Cambridge, for example, who showed how with just a few statements from social media profiles, one is able to reasonably determine a user's sexual orientation.

"Now, whether or not these kinds of predictions are accurate is beside the point—it's the fact that the predictions are taking place at all and are taken seriously that's important. If your online conversations flag you up as a potentially troublesome individual, regardless of whether you are or not, you will still end up being blackballed as such."

Some say they have had first-hand experience of this kind of targeted profiling, and it has pushed them to go off the grid almost altogether.

"It's got to the stage where I will only use a public telephone or meet someone face to face if I want to discuss something sensitive," explains Janie Mac, a legal observer for the Occupy LSX movement. "We are all very aware that our accounts are being monitored. We've moved our social network activity to make it more private and we've moved away from traditional social sites for our online meetings and discussions."

It is suspected that protesters and political activists are bearing the brunt of the Met's Socmint surveillance program.

On June 26, The Guardian reported that the very same unit had a "secret database" that had labelled some 9,000 individuals—many from political groups—as "domestic extremists." It adds to the growing number of questionable surveillance tactics used by the police. What is particularly troublesome is that these abuses occurred even with the apparent existence of proper legislation and oversight—something the snooping of social media data currently does not have.

"With anything to do with surveillance, we must look at whether it is necessary, proportionate, and in the public interest," concludes Emma Carr, deputy director of Big Brother Watch.

"In some cases it certainly will be, but there has to be a clear framework that's unambiguous and consistently applied. Only then can the public start to feel comfortable that it's being used proportionately and in their interest."

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/06/meet-prisms-little-brother-socmint/
another reason why I am glad I don't have an account on any social media site

 
Anybody catch the Greenwald interview yesterday?

He is putting out a challenge to the NSA to deny the claims Snowden has made.

On ABC's Sunday-morning news program, This Week, George Stephanopolous led with the Anthony Weiner scandal -- after all, whatever happens to be going on in New York City and sex are always the most vital topics in the United States. A bit later, however, he got to the next most important story: the possibility that low-level NSA analysts can access anyone's calls, emails, and web history.

Critics of NSA leaker Edward Snowden have long insisted that he has "greatly exaggerated the amount of information available to people like him." The most radical claim in Snowden's video was perhaps that "I, sitting at my desk ... had the authorities to wiretap anyone from you or your accountant to a federal judge to even the president if I had a personal email."

Was he exaggerating? Or was he right all along?

Glenn Greenwald of The Guardian says its the latter:



George Stephanopolous
: Now that claim was denied by intelligence officials, and the Chair of the House Intelligence Committee, Mike Rogers, said that he was actually lying.
But your new reporting you say bolsters Snowden's claim.
Glenn Greenwald
: Right, George. One of the most amazing parts of this entire episode has been that top-level national security officials like James Clapper really did get caught red-handed lying to the American Congress, which everyone now acknowledges, about what the NSA is doing. And it's amazing that he not only hasn't been prosecuted, but still has his job. And what that does is, it lets national-security officials continue to lie to the public, which is what happened in that exchange you just referenced.
The way that I know exactly what analysts have the capability to do when they're spying on Americans is that the story I've been working on for the last month that we're publishing this week very clearly sets forth what these programs are that NSA analysts -- low-level ones, not just ones who work for the NSA, but private contractors like Mr. Snowden -- are able to do. The NSA has trillions of telephone calls and emails in their databases that they've collected over the last several years. And what these programs are, are very simple screens like the ones that supermarket clerks or shipping and receiving clerks use, where all an analyst has to do is enter an email address or an IP address and it does two things: it searches a database and lets them listen to the calls or read the emails of everything that the NSA has stored, or look at the browsing histories or Google search terms that you've entered. And it also alerts them to any further activity that people connected to that email address of that IP address do in the future.
And it's all done with no need to go to a court, with no need to even get supervisor approval on the part of the analyst. There are legal constraints for how you can spy on Americans. You can't target them without going through the FISA court. But these systems allow analysts to listen to whatever emails they want, whatever telephone calls, browsing histories, Microsoft Word documents. It's an incredibly powerful and invasive tool exactly of the type that Mr. Snowden described. And NSA officials are going to be testifying before the Senate on Wednesday. And I defy them to deny that these programs work exactly as I just said.
If Senate oversight is worth anything, the NSA officials who testify before it on Wednesday will be asked to respond under oath to Greenwald's remarks (or his story, if it has posted.) Of course, it isn't as if national-security officials haven't lied to Congress before without any consequences.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/07/glenn-greenwald-i-defy-the-nsa-to-deny-edward-snowdens-most-radical-claims-under-oath/278157/

 
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It really is amazing how large the scope of this stuff is yet how quickly the media dropped coverage.
Putting aside our disagreement on this issue, I think you raise an interesting point here. Why isn't it getting more coverage? Even I admit it's an extremely important story and discussion, however you come down on it.

I would guess there are two reasons it's not gaining traction:

1. It's an impersonal story. The reason stories like George Zimmerman gets so much attention is that people can personalize it- suppose this happened to you? It took The Diary of Anne Frank to get Americans to be interested in the Holocaust, and Roots to get people interested in slavery. The public always seems to need a personal interest to focus on. Apart from Eric Snowden's travelogue (which has gotten some attention) there is no personal interest here. (Which relates in a way to the crux of my disagreement with you- if there is a wrong being done, you need to produce someone who has been wronged.)

2. Usually political stories tend to sort themselves as liberal vs. conservative. As you have correctly pointed out more than once, this is a story of establishment vs. non-establishment (I would say populist). As a result, talk radio hosts and political commentators, who are usually essential at drawing attention to and maintaining this sort of issue in the public eye, are uncomfortable with their roles. Many progressives want to rip the program without damning Obama- they lack the courage of someone like NC Commish in this thread. Many conservatives have no problem with the program, but are uncomfortable with Obama's support, and with the opposition by Rand Paul types whom they are beginning to have more sympathy for. The traditional positions, which were evident even in the George Zimmerman case, are missing here.

 
NSA program collects nearly everything a user does on the Internet:

http://gu.com/p/3hy4h

A top secret National Security Agency program allows analysts to search with no prior authorization through vast databases containing emails, online chats and the browsing histories of millions of individuals, according to documents provided by whistleblower Edward Snowden.

The NSA boasts in training materials that the program, called XKeyscore, is its "widest-reaching" system for developing intelligence from theinternet.
 
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NSA program collects nearly everything a user does on the Internet:

http://gu.com/p/3hy4h

A top secret National Security Agency program allows analysts to search with no prior authorization through vast databases containing emails, online chats and the browsing histories of millions of individuals, according to documents provided by whistleblower Edward Snowden.

The NSA boasts in training materials that the program, called XKeyscore, is its "widest-reaching" system for developing intelligence from theinternet.
Duh.

Tim has no problem with this.

 
NSA program collects nearly everything a user does on the Internet:

http://gu.com/p/3hy4h

A top secret National Security Agency program allows analysts to search with no prior authorization through vast databases containing emails, online chats and the browsing histories of millions of individuals, according to documents provided by whistleblower Edward Snowden.

The NSA boasts in training materials that the program, called XKeyscore, is its "widest-reaching" system for developing intelligence from theinternet.
Duh.

Tim has no problem with this.
Some of the screenshots in that article are downright scary.

 
It really is amazing how large the scope of this stuff is yet how quickly the media dropped coverage.
Putting aside our disagreement on this issue, I think you raise an interesting point here. Why isn't it getting more coverage? Even I admit it's an extremely important story and discussion, however you come down on it.

I would guess there are two reasons it's not gaining traction:

1. It's an impersonal story. The reason stories like George Zimmerman gets so much attention is that people can personalize it- suppose this happened to you? It took The Diary of Anne Frank to get Americans to be interested in the Holocaust, and Roots to get people interested in slavery. The public always seems to need a personal interest to focus on. Apart from Eric Snowden's travelogue (which has gotten some attention) there is no personal interest here. (Which relates in a way to the crux of my disagreement with you- if there is a wrong being done, you need to produce someone who has been wronged.)

2. Usually political stories tend to sort themselves as liberal vs. conservative. As you have correctly pointed out more than once, this is a story of establishment vs. non-establishment (I would say populist). As a result, talk radio hosts and political commentators, who are usually essential at drawing attention to and maintaining this sort of issue in the public eye, are uncomfortable with their roles. Many progressives want to rip the program without damning Obama- they lack the courage of someone like NC Commish in this thread. Many conservatives have no problem with the program, but are uncomfortable with Obama's support, and with the opposition by Rand Paul types whom they are beginning to have more sympathy for. The traditional positions, which were evident even in the George Zimmerman case, are missing here.
You left out:

3. The mainstream media has little interest in upseting its cozy relationship with the establishment and their corporate backers, many of whom are engaged in helping the government collect this information and fear popular backlash against their products.

 
NSA program collects nearly everything a user does on the Internet:

http://gu.com/p/3hy4h

A top secret National Security Agency program allows analysts to search with no prior authorization through vast databases containing emails, online chats and the browsing histories of millions of individuals, according to documents provided by whistleblower Edward Snowden.

The NSA boasts in training materials that the program, called XKeyscore, is its "widest-reaching" system for developing intelligence from theinternet.
Duh.

Tim has no problem with this.
Some of the screenshots in that article are downright scary.
Agreed, serious stuff. Worthy of a new thread imo.

 
It really is amazing how large the scope of this stuff is yet how quickly the media dropped coverage.
Putting aside our disagreement on this issue, I think you raise an interesting point here. Why isn't it getting more coverage? Even I admit it's an extremely important story and discussion, however you come down on it.I would guess there are two reasons it's not gaining traction:

1. It's an impersonal story. The reason stories like George Zimmerman gets so much attention is that people can personalize it- suppose this happened to you? It took The Diary of Anne Frank to get Americans to be interested in the Holocaust, and Roots to get people interested in slavery. The public always seems to need a personal interest to focus on. Apart from Eric Snowden's travelogue (which has gotten some attention) there is no personal interest here. (Which relates in a way to the crux of my disagreement with you- if there is a wrong being done, you need to produce someone who has been wronged.)

2. Usually political stories tend to sort themselves as liberal vs. conservative. As you have correctly pointed out more than once, this is a story of establishment vs. non-establishment (I would say populist). As a result, talk radio hosts and political commentators, who are usually essential at drawing attention to and maintaining this sort of issue in the public eye, are uncomfortable with their roles. Many progressives want to rip the program without damning Obama- they lack the courage of someone like NC Commish in this thread. Many conservatives have no problem with the program, but are uncomfortable with Obama's support, and with the opposition by Rand Paul types whom they are beginning to have more sympathy for. The traditional positions, which were evident even in the George Zimmerman case, are missing here.
You left out:

3. The mainstream media has little interest in upseting its cozy relationship with the establishment and their corporate backers, many of whom are engaged in helping the government collect this information and fear popular backlash against their products.
There's a lot of things Tim left out. That's pretty much the point when one attempts to over simplify an issue.

 
NSA program collects nearly everything a user does on the Internet:

http://gu.com/p/3hy4h



A top secret National Security Agency program allows analysts to search with no prior authorization through vast databases containing emails, online chats and the browsing histories of millions of individuals, according to documents provided by whistleblower Edward Snowden.

The NSA boasts in training materials that the program, called XKeyscore, is its "widest-reaching" system for developing intelligence from theinternet.
Duh.

Tim has no problem with this.
Some of the screenshots in that article are downright scary.
Agreed, serious stuff. Worthy of a new thread imo.
Nobody should have this kind of unfettered access to personal information, much less junior level ####### contractors. What the hell happened to this country? A secret court makes secret laws that voids any kind of oversight for any private communication. How does anyone (besides Tim) rationalize this as acceptable?

I hope Snowden blows so many holes in our national intelligence system they are forced to rebuild it from scratch.

 
NSA program collects nearly everything a user does on the Internet:

http://gu.com/p/3hy4h

A top secret National Security Agency program allows analysts to search with no prior authorization through vast databases containing emails, online chats and the browsing histories of millions of individuals, according to documents provided by whistleblower Edward Snowden.

The NSA boasts in training materials that the program, called XKeyscore, is its "widest-reaching" system for developing intelligence from theinternet.
Duh.

Tim has no problem with this.
NSA program collects nearly everything a user does on the Internet:

http://gu.com/p/3hy4h

A top secret National Security Agency program allows analysts to search with no prior authorization through vast databases containing emails, online chats and the browsing histories of millions of individuals, according to documents provided by whistleblower Edward Snowden.

The NSA boasts in training materials that the program, called XKeyscore, is its "widest-reaching" system for developing intelligence from theinternet.
Duh.

Tim has no problem with this.
Some of the screenshots in that article are downright scary.
Agreed, serious stuff. Worthy of a new thread imo.
I was just coming in to post this article.I kinda wonder what needs to be said before the country as a whole gets angry at this stuff?

My gut feeling is this will just go away with nothing being done about it all in the name of public safety.

The new normal is here.

 
I was just coming in to post this article.I kinda wonder what needs to be said before the country as a whole gets angry at this stuff?

My gut feeling is this will just go away with nothing being done about it all in the name of public safety.

The new normal is here.
I don't wonder much about what happens here. There will be sporadic, outside of the mainstream efforts to curb this. Obama and his allies will claim that is reckless and we need to have a real, open debate while doing everything they can to prevent that from happening and surpressing information. The security state will continue to grow and delusions that we have freedom will persist.

 
NSA program collects nearly everything a user does on the Internet:

http://gu.com/p/3hy4h

A top secret National Security Agency program allows analysts to search with no prior authorization through vast databases containing emails, online chats and the browsing histories of millions of individuals, according to documents provided by whistleblower Edward Snowden.

The NSA boasts in training materials that the program, called XKeyscore, is its "widest-reaching" system for developing intelligence from theinternet.
Duh.

Tim has no problem with this.
NSA program collects nearly everything a user does on the Internet:

http://gu.com/p/3hy4h

A top secret National Security Agency program allows analysts to search with no prior authorization through vast databases containing emails, online chats and the browsing histories of millions of individuals, according to documents provided by whistleblower Edward Snowden.

The NSA boasts in training materials that the program, called XKeyscore, is its "widest-reaching" system for developing intelligence from theinternet.
Duh.

Tim has no problem with this.
Some of the screenshots in that article are downright scary.
Agreed, serious stuff. Worthy of a new thread imo.
I was just coming in to post this article.I kinda wonder what needs to be said before the country as a whole gets angry at this stuff?

My gut feeling is this will just go away with nothing being done about it all in the name of public safety.

The new normal is here.
Most people don't understand 90%+ of the list of grievances in the Declaration of Independence. As long as people understand terrorism is scary, they'll support what ever the government does, even if it's worse than the list in 1776.

 
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/obama-to-announce-proposals-to-reform-nsa-surveillance/2013/08/09/ee3d6762-011a-11e3-9711-3708310f6f4d_story.html

President Obama announced plans Friday to pursue reforms that would open the legal proceedings surrounding the National Security Agency’s surveillance programs to greater scrutiny, the administration’s most concerted response yet to a series of national security disclosures that have raised concerns from Republicans and Democrats on Capitol Hill.

At his first full news conference in more than three months, Obama said he intends to work with Congress on proposals that would add an adversarial voice — effectively one advocating privacy rights — to the secret proceedings before the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court. Several Democratic senators have proposed such a measure.

In addition, Obama said that he intends to work on ways to tighten one provision of the Patriot Act - known as Section 215 - that gives the government broader authority to obtain business phone data records. He announced the creation of a panel of outsiders -- former intelligence officials, civil liberty and privacy advocates, and others — to assess the programs and suggest changes by the end of the year.

I’m also mindful of how these issues are viewed overseas because American leadership around the world depends upon the example of American democracy and American openness,” Obama said from the White House East Room. “In other words, it’s not enough for me, as president, to have confidence in these programs. The American people need to have confidence in them, as well.”

Obama spoke on the eve of a week-long vacation, and he struck a defiant tone in speaking about a range of issues over the hour-long news conference. The Gallup tracking poll shows that his public approval rating of 44 percent is near a 12-month low, and a mix of Republican opposition to his gun control legislation, public disclosure of the NSA’s vast surveillance programs, and a turbulent Middle East have complicated the early months of what he planned to be an ambitious second term.

He defended his signature health-care legilsation from Republican threats of repeal, expressed confidence over the eventual passage of immigration legislation, and noted the school-boy “slouch of his brusque Russian counterpart, Vladi­mir Putin, with whom he recently canceled a summit scheduled for next month.

Obama also announced the release of a Justice Department analysis of the legal rationale underpinning the government’s most controversial surveillance programs, brought to light in June by the former NSA contractor Edward Snowden, who was recently granted temporary asylum in Russia.

Obama rejected the characterization of Snowden as a “patriot,” even though his disclosures prompted the debate over the NSA’s surveillance programs that the president called for in May. He acknowledged, though, that “there’s no doubt that Mr. Snowden’s leaks triggered a much more rapid, and passionate, response than if I had simply appointed this review board.”

“There were other avenues available for someone whose conscience was stirred and thought they needed to question government action,” Obama said, adding that if Snowden believes he was correct, he should return from Russia and defend himself in court.

 
From the transcript of the press conference:

As I've said, this program is an important tool in our effort to disrupt terrorist plots, and it does not allow the government to listen to any phone calls without a warrant. But given the scale of this program, I understand the concerns of those who would worry that it could be subject to abuse.

(Later)And to others around the world, I want to make clear once again that America is not interested in spying on ordinary people. Our intelligence is focused above all on finding the information that's necessary to protect our people and, in many cases, protect our allies.

It's true we have significant capabilities. What's also true is we show a restraint that many governments around the world don't even think to do, refuse to show. That includes, by the way, some of America's most vocal critics. We shouldn't forget the difference between the ability of our government to collect information online, under strict guidelines and for narrow purposes, and the willingness of some other governments to throw their own citizens in prison for what they say online.

And let me close with one additional thought. The men and women of our intelligence community work every single day to keep us safe because they love this country and believe in our values. They're patriots. And I believe that those who have lawfully raised their voices on behalf of privacy and civil liberties are also patriots who love our country and want it to live up to our highest ideals.

:thumbup:

These are EXACTLY my own sentiments.

 
From the transcript of the press conference:

As I've said, this program is an important tool in our effort to disrupt terrorist plots, and it does not allow the government to listen to any phone calls without a warrant. But given the scale of this program, I understand the concerns of those who would worry that it could be subject to abuse.

(Later)And to others around the world, I want to make clear once again that America is not interested in spying on ordinary people. Our intelligence is focused above all on finding the information that's necessary to protect our people and, in many cases, protect our allies.

It's true we have significant capabilities. What's also true is we show a restraint that many governments around the world don't even think to do, refuse to show. That includes, by the way, some of America's most vocal critics. We shouldn't forget the difference between the ability of our government to collect information online, under strict guidelines and for narrow purposes, and the willingness of some other governments to throw their own citizens in prison for what they say online.

And let me close with one additional thought. The men and women of our intelligence community work every single day to keep us safe because they love this country and believe in our values. They're patriots. And I believe that those who have lawfully raised their voices on behalf of privacy and civil liberties are also patriots who love our country and want it to live up to our highest ideals.

:thumbup:

These are EXACTLY my own sentiments.
Of course, the "under strict guidelines and for narrow purposes" bit has already been shown to be a load of crap.

 
Damn. And here I thought I would change all of your minds.

It's like when Obama produced his long form birth certificate a few years back. It only energized the Birthers even more.

 
Damn. And here I thought I would change all of your minds.

It's like when Obama produced his long form birth certificate a few years back. It only energized the Birthers even more.
:rolleyes:

Your dizzying intellect is just so persecuted by the myriad of dumb####s and paranoids that disagree with you.

 
Meanwhile..

http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/08/diy-stalker-boxes-spy-on-wi-fi-users-cheaply-and-with-maximum-creep-value/

You may not know it, but the smartphone in your pocket is spilling some of your deepest secrets to anyone who takes the time to listen. It knows what time you left the bar last night, the number of times per day you take a cappuccino break, and even the dating website you use. And because the information is leaked in dribs and drabs, no one seems to notice. Until now.

Enter CreepyDOL, a low-cost, distributed network of Wi-Fi sensors that stalks people as they move about neighborhoods or even entire cities. At 4.5 inches by 3.5 inches by 1.25 inches, each node is small enough to be slipped into a wall socket at the nearby gym, cafe, or break room. And with the ability for each one to share the Internet traffic it collects with every other node, the system can assemble a detailed dossier of personal data, including the schedules, e-mail addresses, personal photos, and current or past whereabouts of the person or people it monitors.

Short for Creepy Distributed Object Locator, CreepyDOL is the brainchild of 27-year-old Brendan O'Connor, a law student at the University of Wisconsin at Madison and a researcher at a consultancy called Malice Afterthought. After a reading binge of science fiction novels, he began wondering how the growing ubiquity of mobile computing was affecting people's ability to remain anonymous, or at least untracked or unidentified, as they went about their work and social routines each day.
 
From the transcript of the press conference:

As I've said, this program is an important tool in our effort to disrupt terrorist plots, and it does not allow the government to listen to any phone calls without a warrant. But given the scale of this program, I understand the concerns of those who would worry that it could be subject to abuse.

(Later)And to others around the world, I want to make clear once again that America is not interested in spying on ordinary people. Our intelligence is focused above all on finding the information that's necessary to protect our people and, in many cases, protect our allies.

It's true we have significant capabilities. What's also true is we show a restraint that many governments around the world don't even think to do, refuse to show. That includes, by the way, some of America's most vocal critics. We shouldn't forget the difference between the ability of our government to collect information online, under strict guidelines and for narrow purposes, and the willingness of some other governments to throw their own citizens in prison for what they say online.

And let me close with one additional thought. The men and women of our intelligence community work every single day to keep us safe because they love this country and believe in our values. They're patriots. And I believe that those who have lawfully raised their voices on behalf of privacy and civil liberties are also patriots who love our country and want it to live up to our highest ideals.

:thumbup:

These are EXACTLY my own sentiments.
I just have one question Tim. Do you really believe this #####?

 
From the transcript of the press conference:

As I've said, this program is an important tool in our effort to disrupt terrorist plots, and it does not allow the government to listen to any phone calls without a warrant. But given the scale of this program, I understand the concerns of those who would worry that it could be subject to abuse.

(Later)And to others around the world, I want to make clear once again that America is not interested in spying on ordinary people. Our intelligence is focused above all on finding the information that's necessary to protect our people and, in many cases, protect our allies.

It's true we have significant capabilities. What's also true is we show a restraint that many governments around the world don't even think to do, refuse to show. That includes, by the way, some of America's most vocal critics. We shouldn't forget the difference between the ability of our government to collect information online, under strict guidelines and for narrow purposes, and the willingness of some other governments to throw their own citizens in prison for what they say online.

And let me close with one additional thought. The men and women of our intelligence community work every single day to keep us safe because they love this country and believe in our values. They're patriots. And I believe that those who have lawfully raised their voices on behalf of privacy and civil liberties are also patriots who love our country and want it to live up to our highest ideals.

:thumbup:

These are EXACTLY my own sentiments.
I just have one question Tim. Do you really believe this #####?
You mean the part about those who work for the NSA and those who question the NSA are both being patriotic in their own fashion? Yes, this is something I have ALWAYS believed. You mean the rest of his comments? Yes.
 
From the transcript of the press conference:

As I've said, this program is an important tool in our effort to disrupt terrorist plots, and it does not allow the government to listen to any phone calls without a warrant. But given the scale of this program, I understand the concerns of those who would worry that it could be subject to abuse.

(Later)And to others around the world, I want to make clear once again that America is not interested in spying on ordinary people. Our intelligence is focused above all on finding the information that's necessary to protect our people and, in many cases, protect our allies.

It's true we have significant capabilities. What's also true is we show a restraint that many governments around the world don't even think to do, refuse to show. That includes, by the way, some of America's most vocal critics. We shouldn't forget the difference between the ability of our government to collect information online, under strict guidelines and for narrow purposes, and the willingness of some other governments to throw their own citizens in prison for what they say online.

And let me close with one additional thought. The men and women of our intelligence community work every single day to keep us safe because they love this country and believe in our values. They're patriots. And I believe that those who have lawfully raised their voices on behalf of privacy and civil liberties are also patriots who love our country and want it to live up to our highest ideals.

:thumbup:

These are EXACTLY my own sentiments.
I just have one question Tim. Do you really believe this #####?
You mean the part about those who work for the NSA and those who question the NSA are both being patriotic in their own fashion? Yes, this is something I have ALWAYS believed. You mean the rest of his comments? Yes.
So you could have posted a simple yes since you answered yes to everything, but you opted to write a paragraph to say "yes". :lmao:

You should seriously stop posting in this thread. You are looking as bad in this thread as any I've ever seen you look bad in. And that's saying a lot.

 
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/08/if-bruce-schneier-ran-the-nsa-hed-ask-a-basic-question-does-it-do-any-good/

For the last two months, we’ve all watched thenews about the National Security Agency and its friends over at the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC), which approves secret orders on behalf of the NSA and other spy agencies. But more often than not, a lot of these articles take the same basic structure: documents provided by NSA leaker Edward Snowden show X, and then privacy advocates and civil libertarians decry X for Y reason.
That now raises the question, what would these privacy advocates do if they were put in charge of the NSA and the FISC? Or more specifically, what changes would they immediately enact at those two opaque institutions?

Ars checked in with some of the best technical and legal minds that we know: Bruce Schneier, one of the world’s foremost cryptographers, and Jennifer Granick, an attorney and director of Civil Liberties at Stanford University’s Center for Internet and Society. For a historical perspective, we chatted with Gary Hart, a former United States senator from Colorado who served on the Church Committee in 1976. Its recommendations led to the creation of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) and the FISC. We also looked at recent public statements by the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) and the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU).

Schneier, who has previously criticized the Department of Homeland Security, proposed the most radical changes.

“There’s a fundamental problem in that the issues are not with the NSA but with oversight,” he told Ars. “[There’s no way to] counterbalance the way [the NSA] looks at the world. So when the NSA says we want to get information on every American’s phone call, no one is saying: ‘you can’t do that.’ Without that, you have an agency that’s gone rogue because there is no accountability, because there is nothing checking their power.”

The way Schneier sees it, in an attempt to keep the operational details of the targets secret, the NSA (and presumably other intelligence agencies, too) has also claimed that it also needs to keep secret the legal justification for what it’s doing. “That’s bull****,” Schneier says.

The famed computer scientist wants to apply traditionally open and public scrutiny to how the NSA operates.

“How much does this stuff cost and does it do any good?” he said. “And if they can’t tell us that, they don’t get approved. Let’s say the NSA costs $100 million annually and that an FBI agent is $100,000 a year. Is this worth 1,000 FBI agents? Or half and half? Nowhere will you find that analysis.”

For the record: the size of the NSA’s budget is officially classified as secret, but estimates put it at least at $8 to $10 billion annually—but his point stands. It’s nearly impossible to judge the effectiveness of federal spending of an unknown sum, whose tactics, legal justifications, and most importantly, outcomes, are completely hidden from the public.

“We deliberately have given ourselves an inefficient form of government and an inefficient form of policing because we recognize the dangers in giving people so much power without any oversight or accountability,” he concluded.

Similarly, former Senator Gary Hart said that the intelligence apparatus has ballooned out of control in the United States in recent years.
“The use of outside consultants [and] private companies by these dozen and a half intelligence agencies is out of hand,” Hart said. “We don’t know how many companies there are, how many people they employ. We do know there are 1 million Americans with top-secret clearance, and that’s way too much.”
 
From the transcript of the press conference:

As I've said, this program is an important tool in our effort to disrupt terrorist plots, and it does not allow the government to listen to any phone calls without a warrant. But given the scale of this program, I understand the concerns of those who would worry that it could be subject to abuse.

(Later)And to others around the world, I want to make clear once again that America is not interested in spying on ordinary people. Our intelligence is focused above all on finding the information that's necessary to protect our people and, in many cases, protect our allies.

It's true we have significant capabilities. What's also true is we show a restraint that many governments around the world don't even think to do, refuse to show. That includes, by the way, some of America's most vocal critics. We shouldn't forget the difference between the ability of our government to collect information online, under strict guidelines and for narrow purposes, and the willingness of some other governments to throw their own citizens in prison for what they say online.

And let me close with one additional thought. The men and women of our intelligence community work every single day to keep us safe because they love this country and believe in our values. They're patriots. And I believe that those who have lawfully raised their voices on behalf of privacy and civil liberties are also patriots who love our country and want it to live up to our highest ideals.

:thumbup:

These are EXACTLY my own sentiments.
I just have one question Tim. Do you really believe this #####?
You mean the part about those who work for the NSA and those who question the NSA are both being patriotic in their own fashion? Yes, this is something I have ALWAYS believed. You mean the rest of his comments? Yes.
So you could have posted a simple yes since you answered yes to everything, but you opted to write a paragraph to say "yes". :lmao: You should seriously stop posting in this thread. You are looking as bad in this thread as any I've ever seen you look bad in. And that's saying a lot.
If I stopped posting in this thread, there would be nobody to defend the NSA. What fun would that be?
 
We shouldn't forget the difference between the ability of our government to collect information online, under strict guidelines and for narrow purposes, and the willingness of some other governments to throw their own citizens in prison for what they say online.
I don't really see the difference. Strict, narrow guidelines that have apparently denied no warrants?

All you have is a faith in the government to not abuse this power. I'm sure you'll respond with, the government has always had the power to take away our civil liberties but not to this degree with the Americans doing nothing about it.

Not to mention we've seen how the government can abuse its power by accident. Then, you listen to guys from the Intelligence Community who pretty much think they are above it all and it is scary.

Listen, reading about AQAP and guys like al-Asiri scare the hell out of me. But he is in Yemen. What the hell does my email to my buddy in California have to do with AQAP and bombs?

 
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We shouldn't forget the difference between the ability of our government to collect information online, under strict guidelines and for narrow purposes, and the willingness of some other governments to throw their own citizens in prison for what they say online.
So the executive branch can violate the constitution as long as we are reminded that what they are doing isn't as bad as governments in other countries?

Oh, I hadn't thought about it that way before. Now I understand how you think Tim.

And yes it's as whacked out as I feared.

 
From the transcript of the press conference:

As I've said, this program is an important tool in our effort to disrupt terrorist plots, and it does not allow the government to listen to any phone calls without a warrant. But given the scale of this program, I understand the concerns of those who would worry that it could be subject to abuse.

(Later)And to others around the world, I want to make clear once again that America is not interested in spying on ordinary people. Our intelligence is focused above all on finding the information that's necessary to protect our people and, in many cases, protect our allies.

It's true we have significant capabilities. What's also true is we show a restraint that many governments around the world don't even think to do, refuse to show. That includes, by the way, some of America's most vocal critics. We shouldn't forget the difference between the ability of our government to collect information online, under strict guidelines and for narrow purposes, and the willingness of some other governments to throw their own citizens in prison for what they say online.

And let me close with one additional thought. The men and women of our intelligence community work every single day to keep us safe because they love this country and believe in our values. They're patriots. And I believe that those who have lawfully raised their voices on behalf of privacy and civil liberties are also patriots who love our country and want it to live up to our highest ideals.

:thumbup:

These are EXACTLY my own sentiments.
I just have one question Tim. Do you really believe this #####?
You mean the part about those who work for the NSA and those who question the NSA are both being patriotic in their own fashion? Yes, this is something I have ALWAYS believed. You mean the rest of his comments? Yes.
So you could have posted a simple yes since you answered yes to everything, but you opted to write a paragraph to say "yes". :lmao: You should seriously stop posting in this thread. You are looking as bad in this thread as any I've ever seen you look bad in. And that's saying a lot.
If I stopped posting in this thread, there would be nobody to defend the NSA. What fun would that be?
When people stop defending the indefensible, it's called progress.

 
Tim, when the NSA was started after World War II it was not designed to spy on its own people.

How do you find it justifiable?

 
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Just read this article and realized those contraptions mounted on the back of police cars are license plate cameras. I thought they were extra radars. Scary.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/08/14/agent-of-intelligence-how-a-deviant-philosopher-built-palantir-a-cia-funded-data-mining-juggernaut/3/

AT 4:07 P.M. ON NOV. 14, 2009 Michael Katz-Lacabe was parking his red Toyota Prius in the driveway of his home in the quiet Oakland suburb of San Leandro when a police car drove past. A license plate camera mounted on the squad car silently and routinely snapped a photo of the scene: his off-white, single-floor house, his wilted lawn and rosebushes, and his 5- and 8-year-old daughters jumping out of the car.

Katz-Lacabe, a gray-bearded and shaggy-haired member of the local school board, community activist and blogger, saw the photo only a year later: In 2010 he learned about the San Leandro Police Department’s automatic license plate readers, designed to constantly photograph and track the movements of every car in the city. He filed a public records request for any images that included either of his two cars. The police sent back 112 photos. He found the one of his children most disturbing.

“Who knows how many other people’s kids are captured in these images?” he asks. His concerns go beyond a mere sense of parental protection. “With this technology you can wind back the clock and see where everyone is, if they were parked at the house of someone other than their wife, a medical marijuana clinic, a Planned Parenthood center, a protest.”

As Katz-Lacabe dug deeper, he found that the millions of pictures collected by San Leandro’s license plate cameras are now passed on to the Northern California Regional Intelligence Center (NCRIC), one of 72 federally run intelligence fusion organizations set up after 9/11. That’s where the photos are analyzed using software built by a company just across San Francisco Bay: Palantir.

 
From the "About" page of that "news" source:

At the Chronicle.SU, we take truth seriously. We take what we do so seriusly, untruths at chronicle.su are punishable by mutilation or death.

Sadly, chronicle.su is not of this earth. After crash landing in an asteroid December 30th, 1976, the alien husks of Chronicle editors rapidly adapted to Earth climates and bacterial flora. They are able to survive naturally in the wild and reproduce freely.

Here at chronicle.su, we take a liberal stance on drug abuse and theft of intellectual property, but that does not mean we are liberal because liberals are ######s and I ain’t no steer-boatin’ queer!

Receiving tweets twice daily via fax from religious advisers impregnates our right-wing furnace of hate, enabling us to bring you the most horrifyingly sensational headlines you’ve ever seen, or your money back – guaranteed!

If you wish to write us spam, please use press@chronicle.su and we will get back to you at our earliest possible convenience, or whenever.
Sounds like a website that is trying to be like The Onion.

 
People talking about Big Brother are crazy. Pay no attention to your every move being tracked by the gov't.
Now you are just baiting Tim to re-engage.

Shame on you.
If either of you say something new then perhaps I WILL re-engage. But so far it's just the same old blather.
With all the new information that's come out the last few weeks, do you still believe what the NSA is doing is no big deal?

 
People talking about Big Brother are crazy. Pay no attention to your every move being tracked by the gov't.
Now you are just baiting Tim to re-engage.

Shame on you.
If either of you say something new then perhaps I WILL re-engage. But so far it's just the same old blather.
With all the new information that's come out the last few weeks, do you still believe what the NSA is doing is no big deal?
:rant:

The Commish --> :clyde: <-- Me

 
People talking about Big Brother are crazy. Pay no attention to your every move being tracked by the gov't.
Now you are just baiting Tim to re-engage.

Shame on you.
If either of you say something new then perhaps I WILL re-engage. But so far it's just the same old blather.
With all the new information that's come out the last few weeks, do you still believe what the NSA is doing is no big deal?
This answer is obvious. I have a hard time thinking of something they could be tracking that wouldn't bother him.

 

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