Vernon Davis (1 Viewer)

[Faust]

I was trying to find some solid info on the 49ers OTAs and came across the following info pertaining to Vernon Davis. I fully admit that I have a bias against Vernon Davis from his disappointing season last year; however, I need to remind myself not to let bias creep in, as the mantra is something to the effect of "Like no player, hate no player as all players have value"

What says the Shark Pool on VD?

Veron Davis:Undervalued

This blog post probably won't be popular. But if you remove the 2008 blinders, it's clear that Vernon Davis' situation has improved dramatically since 2008. There are plenty of reasons to believe he'll be a big factor in San Francisco's new offense and an excellent late-round fantasy value.

1. Davis has already proven that he can be valuable in fantasy. There is a perception that Davis has done nothing in the league, that he's a complete bust. This is false. Despite playing in a rotation with Eric Johnson and missing two games in 2007, Davis caught 52 passes for 509 yards and four touchdowns to finish as the fantasy TE14 overall. This, mind you, was in a historically poor offense coordinated by Norv Turner-replacement Jim Hostler. Hostler was removed in favor of Mike Martz following the season.

2. Davis is an every-down tight end. Adding to the previous point, Davis has a lot of NFL value. Even while playing disgruntled in Martz's tight end-unfriendly offense last season, Davis dominated in the running game. And as Football Scientist K.C. Joyner points out Davis was devastating at the point of attack after Mike Singletary took over in Week 8. The Niners did not look to challenge Davis this offseason, drafting only sixth-rounder Bear Pascoe to replace backup Billy Bajema. Davis will rarely come off the field.

3. Martz is gone. This is easily the biggest plus for Davis. Fantasy projectors should've known better than to expect Davis to build on his promising 2007 under Martz. The most productive TE Martz had ever coached was Ernie Conwell in 2001 (38 catches/431 yards/4 TDs). Mike Martz tight ends block and run occasional vertical routes. Outside receivers catch the passes.

4. Jimmy Raye is in. Raye runs a Norv Turner-style offense (think Jay Novacek, Antonio Gates) that will use the TE heavily in the passing game. The Jets' running backs coach last year, Raye's offense in New York saw rookie Dustin Keller catch 35 passes in the last eight games. Some comments from Raye on Davis:

My initial thought going in, just like with (Tony) Gonzalez at Kansas City, is he is a threat at that position - a nightmare for some teams. We'll exploit that to its maximum ability. I would expect he will be a major part of what we do.

5. Davis will come cheaply in fantasy drafts. He's the perfect flier pick to pair with a risky starter like Kellen Winslow, Jeremy Shockey, or John Carlson. Davis' ceiling is much higher than Heath Miller, Visanthe Shiancoe, Kevin Boss, Todd Heap, or Anthony Fasano.

Matthew Barrows, of the Sacramento Bee, reports San Francisco 49ers TE Vernon Davis likely will see his reception number increase this season because he is being targeted a lot during practice and is showing improved hands than in recent years.

Speaking of tight ends ... It's a safe bet that Vernon Davis' catch total will rise, perhaps sharply, from last year. Davis was the target on at least a dozen throws today and he hauled all but two in. One of his drops was a throw from Smith that was behind him. On another out pattern, Davis seemed to bolt upfield before he had the ball tucked away. The point, however, is that those drops are now few and far between. His hands seem to be a lot better than they've been in recent seasons.

http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/49ers...etary-bust.html

Davis, or more accurately Mike Martz, burned a lot of fantasy owners last season, but Singletary and Raye are intent on getting a lot out of the physical freak. According to beat reporter Matthew Barrows, "The philosophy regarding Davis this year seems to be the opposite of what it was last summer: Just get the ball into his hands, even if it's a short pass, and let him gain yardage with his feet." That's a recipe for fantasy value.

http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/49ers...ves/022714.html

and from nfl.com

Davis has failed to meet expectations at the NFL level, but a move at coordinator from Mike Martz to Jimmy Raye should help his numbers. The athletic tight end will be much more involved in the pass attack compared to last season, when he was used often as a blocker at the line of scrimmage. Davis won't come off the board until the late rounds as a No. 2 fantasy tight end, but he could finally emerge into a starter.

 

[iSnitch]

This is not the first thread about him this offseason. He's just not that good. He's not. As a Niners fan I wish he were as good as Gates or Gonzo, but the guy can't catch the ball. And he appears to be scared of getting hit.

Looks like Tarzan; plays like Jane.

He's been dropping passes in camp...this is with NO defenders there to light the guy up. It'd be one thing if it were Harrison dropping passes, but when your reputation is your inability to catch, failing to hold onto the ball in simple drills is not a promising start.

CLICK-CLACK!

He is one helluva blocker.

 

[iSnitch]

If you can get him in the very late rounds or cheaply in an auction there's no downside...but I wouldn't hold out a great deal of hope for him, especially now they have some other weapons on offense. In 2007 Vernon was essentially the only receiving option.

 

[Avery]

5. Davis will come cheaply in fantasy drafts. He's the perfect flier pick to pair with a risky starter like Kellen Winslow, Jeremy Shockey, or John Carlson.

:X So you're saying guys like Winslow, Shockey and Carlson are risky and Davis is the safer pick?Usually you see advice to pair a risky/flyer type with a safe, steady type.

 

[Biabreakable]

I like how Singletary has handled VD.

Not good to hear he is still have issues catching the ball. Still I do think he will get more targets. Especialy if the defense has to start paying more attention to the WR.

But probably the most important thing here is the Oline. IF they can pass pro reliably without VD that will free the coaches up to send VD down field more. The QBs getting some continuity now may help the Oline to finaly gel.

 

[Faust]

5. Davis will come cheaply in fantasy drafts. He's the perfect flier pick to pair with a risky starter like Kellen Winslow, Jeremy Shockey, or John Carlson.

So you're saying guys like Winslow, Shockey and Carlson are risky and Davis is the safer pick?Usually you see advice to pair a risky/flyer type with a safe, steady type.

This was from a piece that was posted at rotoworld, and they are not suggesting that Davis is a safer pick, rather they are suggesting that because of his ADP in fantasy drafts he offers value as a TE #2 to pair with the risky picks mentioned.I was very biased against VD from last year, but I am trying to remember that players can bounce back and many of the articles I found had a positive spin with regards to Vernon ( improved hands, departure of Martz and addition of Raye )Having said that, I am somewhat skeptical for Vernon`s sleeper/breakout prospects as the 49ers passing attack isn't that great, and there are only so many receptions to go around ( Bruce, Morgan, Crabtree, Gore, etc. )

 

[Biabreakable]

5. Davis will come cheaply in fantasy drafts. He's the perfect flier pick to pair with a risky starter like Kellen Winslow, Jeremy Shockey, or John Carlson.

So you're saying guys like Winslow, Shockey and Carlson are risky and Davis is the safer pick?Usually you see advice to pair a risky/flyer type with a safe, steady type.

This was from a piece that was posted at rotoworld, and they are not suggesting that Davis is a safer pick, rather they are suggesting that because of his ADP in fantasy drafts he offers value as a TE #2 to pair with the risky picks mentioned.I was very biased against VD from last year, but I am trying to remember that players can bounce back and many of the articles I found had a positive spin with regards to Vernon ( improved hands, departure of Martz and addition of Raye )Having said that, I am somewhat skeptical for Vernon`s sleeper/breakout prospects as the 49ers passing attack isn't that great, and there are only so many receptions to go around ( Bruce, Morgan, Crabtree, Gore, etc. )

So far it sounds like Crabtree and Morgan are competing for the same slot flanker while Bruce and Hill are at the other slot.So if Crabtree or Morgan become a bigger threat that could in turn open up the middle of the field for VD more. As I said above there are several things that need to click into place I think and VD is only one of them.

 

[Avery]

5. Davis will come cheaply in fantasy drafts. He's the perfect flier pick to pair with a risky starter like Kellen Winslow, Jeremy Shockey, or John Carlson.

So you're saying guys like Winslow, Shockey and Carlson are risky and Davis is the safer pick?Usually you see advice to pair a risky/flyer type with a safe, steady type.

This was from a piece that was posted at rotoworld, and they are not suggesting that Davis is a safer pick, rather they are suggesting that because of his ADP in fantasy drafts he offers value as a TE #2 to pair with the risky picks mentioned.I was very biased against VD from last year, but I am trying to remember that players can bounce back and many of the articles I found had a positive spin with regards to Vernon ( improved hands, departure of Martz and addition of Raye )Having said that, I am somewhat skeptical for Vernon`s sleeper/breakout prospects as the 49ers passing attack isn't that great, and there are only so many receptions to go around ( Bruce, Morgan, Crabtree, Gore, etc. )

Sorry. Didn't realize/notice that was Rotoworld and not you.Anyway, Davis is the sort of guy I'd pick as a late TE2 when I have a top notch guy I'll be starting; Witten, Gonzo, Gates sort of top notch; where I'm sure (baring injury) I won't be using my TE2 and therefore I want to wait on the position.

 

[Faust]

5. Davis will come cheaply in fantasy drafts. He's the perfect flier pick to pair with a risky starter like Kellen Winslow, Jeremy Shockey, or John Carlson.

So you're saying guys like Winslow, Shockey and Carlson are risky and Davis is the safer pick?Usually you see advice to pair a risky/flyer type with a safe, steady type.

This was from a piece that was posted at rotoworld, and they are not suggesting that Davis is a safer pick, rather they are suggesting that because of his ADP in fantasy drafts he offers value as a TE #2 to pair with the risky picks mentioned.I was very biased against VD from last year, but I am trying to remember that players can bounce back and many of the articles I found had a positive spin with regards to Vernon ( improved hands, departure of Martz and addition of Raye )Having said that, I am somewhat skeptical for Vernon`s sleeper/breakout prospects as the 49ers passing attack isn't that great, and there are only so many receptions to go around ( Bruce, Morgan, Crabtree, Gore, etc. )

Sorry. Didn't realize/notice that was Rotoworld and not you.Anyway, Davis is the sort of guy I'd pick as a late TE2 when I have a top notch guy I'll be starting; Witten, Gonzo, Gates sort of top notch; where I'm sure (baring injury) I won't be using my TE2 and therefore I want to wait on the position.

No worries, I just wanted to clarify where the opinions were coming from. I also think that the TEs you have listed are better examples of players that I would pair with VD as opposed to the players they have listed. If you have used an early pick on a top flight TE, then you want to use your second pick at TE as a low ADP type with high upside and I think VD qualifies for that strategy!

 

[gianmarco]

This is not the first thread about him this offseason. He's just not that good. He's not. As a Niners fan I wish he were as good as Gates or Gonzo, but the guy can't catch the ball. And he appears to be scared of getting hit.

Looks like Tarzan; plays like Jane.



He's been dropping passes in camp...this is with NO defenders there to light the guy up. It'd be one thing if it were Harrison dropping passes, but when your reputation is your inability to catch, failing to hold onto the ball in simple drills is not a promising start.

CLICK-CLACK!

He is one helluva blocker.

So which is it? I've read in a few spots that Davis is catching the ball a lot better than he used to and I've read from other posters that he's dropping passes in camp. I haven't seen any links confirming the latter, though. Weird to be hearing two completely opposite things over such a short period.

 

[Bri]

IF true, he should be picked up on the WW and not drafted. If someone drafts him, good luck to them.

Numerous times, I've felt like Delanie Walker was the better NFL player although not the most talented. When's he a FA? I wouldn't be surprised if he does well elsewhere

 

[Bri]

Looks like Tarzan; plays like Jane.

good one

 

[iSnitch]

This is not the first thread about him this offseason. He's just not that good. He's not. As a Niners fan I wish he were as good as Gates or Gonzo, but the guy can't catch the ball. And he appears to be scared of getting hit.

Looks like Tarzan; plays like Jane.



He's been dropping passes in camp...this is with NO defenders there to light the guy up. It'd be one thing if it were Harrison dropping passes, but when your reputation is your inability to catch, failing to hold onto the ball in simple drills is not a promising start.

CLICK-CLACK!

He is one helluva blocker.

So which is it? I've read in a few spots that Davis is catching the ball a lot better than he used to and I've read from other posters that he's dropping passes in camp. I haven't seen any links confirming the latter, though. Weird to be hearing two completely opposite things over such a short period.

Both are accurate. While he has looked better, that's because the bar isn't set all that high. Compared to his typical self he's looked much, much better. He's still dropping passes. Lots of them. Though his latest practice was a good one, he's overall looked like catching still isn't something that comes easily.

 

[gianmarco]

This is not the first thread about him this offseason. He's just not that good. He's not. As a Niners fan I wish he were as good as Gates or Gonzo, but the guy can't catch the ball. And he appears to be scared of getting hit.

Looks like Tarzan; plays like Jane.



He's been dropping passes in camp...this is with NO defenders there to light the guy up. It'd be one thing if it were Harrison dropping passes, but when your reputation is your inability to catch, failing to hold onto the ball in simple drills is not a promising start.

CLICK-CLACK!

He is one helluva blocker.

So which is it? I've read in a few spots that Davis is catching the ball a lot better than he used to and I've read from other posters that he's dropping passes in camp. I haven't seen any links confirming the latter, though. Weird to be hearing two completely opposite things over such a short period.

Both are accurate. While he has looked better, that's because the bar isn't set all that high. Compared to his typical self he's looked much, much better. He's still dropping passes. Lots of them. Though his latest practice was a good one, he's overall looked like catching still isn't something that comes easily.

This isn't meant to be sarcastic at all but is a serious question. Are you at the practices and reporting this? Are you hearing it somewhere? Are you reading it somewhere? If so, would be curious from where. It sounds as if you've actually been watching him, though.

 

[Faust]

IF true, he should be picked up on the WW and not drafted. If someone drafts him, good luck to them.Numerous times, I've felt like Delanie Walker was the better NFL player although not the most talented. When's he a FA? I wouldn't be surprised if he does well elsewhere

With an ADP of TE # 18, a FBG Staff Consensus ranking ( redraft ) of TE # 18 and FBG projections of TE # 18, the only leagues where VD will be on the WW will be in leagues that are 8 teams or smaller. In 10 team or 12 team leagues, I doubt that VD will be on the WW.

 

[iSnitch]

Sadly I haven't been able to make it to any of their practices. I've read it from a few of the Niners beat writers/bloggers/fans.

Next time I read something like this I'll post it in the Niners thread.

Davis has allegedly been looking good in quite a few aspects - he isn't fighting with anyone (which is actually a big thing for him - he's quite the hot head), and he's even started taking on something of a leadership role...but his catching has still been hit or miss.

IIRC, last practice he looked pretty good. But a few practices before that he was dropping passes that were hitting him in the numbers. We'll see if he can improve the inconsistencies but when that's been his biggest problem in his career thus far, I'm not getting excited when it appears to be more of the same.

And you won't see the softness happen until hits start flying. I hope Singletary toughens him up in that aspect. It's weird - he's a very good blocker (I believe he's even said he could play tackle) and seems to be a tough and tenacious guy in that regard but for whatever reason it has yet to carry over to him going across the middle of the field to catch the ball.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

no

 

[Bri]

IF true, he should be picked up on the WW and not drafted. If someone drafts him, good luck to them.Numerous times, I've felt like Delanie Walker was the better NFL player although not the most talented. When's he a FA? I wouldn't be surprised if he does well elsewhere

With an ADP of TE # 18, a FBG Staff Consensus ranking ( redraft ) of TE # 18 and FBG projections of TE # 18, the only leagues where VD will be on the WW will be in leagues that are 8 teams or smaller. In 10 team or 12 team leagues, I doubt that VD will be on the WW.

I know of a lot of people that don't roll with a backup TE.Personally I think it's generally foolish. The 18th TE is going to be around 400-450 yards(if not worse) most years. Over a 16 game NFL season, 13 game FF reg season, that's not very useful in FF

 

[Biabreakable]

IF true, he should be picked up on the WW and not drafted. If someone drafts him, good luck to them.Numerous times, I've felt like Delanie Walker was the better NFL player although not the most talented. When's he a FA? I wouldn't be surprised if he does well elsewhere

With an ADP of TE # 18, a FBG Staff Consensus ranking ( redraft ) of TE # 18 and FBG projections of TE # 18, the only leagues where VD will be on the WW will be in leagues that are 8 teams or smaller. In 10 team or 12 team leagues, I doubt that VD will be on the WW.

I know of a lot of people that don't roll with a backup TE.Personally I think it's generally foolish. The 18th TE is going to be around 400-450 yards(if not worse) most years. Over a 16 game NFL season, 13 game FF reg season, that's not very useful in FF

Pretty good call on Fasano last year IIRC.

 

[metoo]

I like how Singletary has handled VD.

Not good to hear he is still have issues catching the ball. Still I do think he will get more targets. Especialy if the defense has to start paying more attention to the WR.

But probably the most important thing here is the Oline. IF they can pass pro reliably without VD that will free the coaches up to send VD down field more. The QBs getting some continuity now may help the Oline to finaly gel.

Really, why not just go to the doctor?

 

[Biabreakable]

I like how Singletary has handled VD.

Not good to hear he is still have issues catching the ball. Still I do think he will get more targets. Especialy if the defense has to start paying more attention to the WR.

But probably the most important thing here is the Oline. IF they can pass pro reliably without VD that will free the coaches up to send VD down field more. The QBs getting some continuity now may help the Oline to finaly gel.

Really, why not just go to the doctor?

Took long enough for someone to capitalize on this set up.

 

[massraider]

Seriously, if the guy didn't run a 4.38 at the Combine, would these threads exist? And didn't we have these threads last year? "Martz never had a TE like Davis!!!"---I think that's how it went.

Bad passing game, unsettled QB situation, bad hands, what's the upside here? Haven't we heard nice things in the spring and summer about this guy every year?

These threads should be about JerMichael Finley or Shawn Nelson.

 

[sholditch]

This is not the first thread about him this offseason. He's just not that good. He's not. As a Niners fan I wish he were as good as Gates or Gonzo, but the guy can't catch the ball. And he appears to be scared of getting hit.

Looks like Tarzan; plays like Jane.



He's been dropping passes in camp...this is with NO defenders there to light the guy up. It'd be one thing if it were Harrison dropping passes, but when your reputation is your inability to catch, failing to hold onto the ball in simple drills is not a promising start.

CLICK-CLACK!

He is one helluva blocker.

So which is it? I've read in a few spots that Davis is catching the ball a lot better than he used to and I've read from other posters that he's dropping passes in camp. I haven't seen any links confirming the latter, though. Weird to be hearing two completely opposite things over such a short period.

Probably both. Dropped 7 out of 10 last year, only six out of ten this year. Davis is the definition of mirage.

 

[Bri]

isnitch, is Delanie Walker better?

 

[Faust]

IF true, he should be picked up on the WW and not drafted. If someone drafts him, good luck to them.Numerous times, I've felt like Delanie Walker was the better NFL player although not the most talented. When's he a FA? I wouldn't be surprised if he does well elsewhere

With an ADP of TE # 18, a FBG Staff Consensus ranking ( redraft ) of TE # 18 and FBG projections of TE # 18, the only leagues where VD will be on the WW will be in leagues that are 8 teams or smaller. In 10 team or 12 team leagues, I doubt that VD will be on the WW.

I know of a lot of people that don't roll with a backup TE.Personally I think it's generally foolish. The 18th TE is going to be around 400-450 yards(if not worse) most years. Over a 16 game NFL season, 13 game FF reg season, that's not very useful in FF

Good point. If your league rules allow you to carry only 1 TE and you are confident in that TE, then you can play the WW shuffle for the bye week and injury situations.I appreciate the debate in this thread, as I was firmly in the camp that Davis was solidifying himself as a bust at TE after all the hype; however, I also recognize that it is possible for players to turn things around, and if Davis can accomplish this feat then he represents the type of player we all want - somebody who can outperform his draft slot or auction price. The TE position is also one that can require a few years of adjustment for players to adapt to the speed and nuances of the NFL game, so I think it is a little early to completely write him off.A few early reports sound positive; however, it is easy for players to look good during a single practice in 11 on 11 drills in June.

 

[iSnitch]

isnitch, is Delanie Walker better?

I believe Walker is a better football player. However, I see his fantasy upside as being extremely limited...if you were going to gamble on a SF TE, Davis is definitely the one to go with. While I remain skeptical Davis will be able to catch the ball, the fact they keep throwing it to the guy shows they DO want to get him involved. He's really not a horrible gamble for his ADP...and as an eternal optimist and die hard Niners fan, I may end up bidding the minimum in my auction league in the hope this will *finally* be his year.The realist in me will be extremely shocked if he becomes fantasy relevant for anything more than 1-2 games. It's a shame we wasted such a high draft pick on the guy but he can't catch. I do think that's something that can be improved upon a bit, but by and large I believe it's something you can or can't do. And Davis has shown us all it's not a talent he was born with.Another thing people should realize - it remains to be seen how he'll be used in the blocking. If the o-line stays healthy I could see him being used a lot more in passing situations but Marvel Smith hasn't been a beacon of health the last few years...if we take some hits up front Vernon could quickly go back to protecting the qb.

 

[iSnitch]

Could Mike Martz be right? When he was the offensive coordinator for the 49ers last year he wasn't right about much. He picked the wrong quarterback to start the season, he completely imploded in Arizona at the end of the game that led to the season's defining, playoff-negating loss. But he might be right about tight end Vernon Davis.Everyone says Vernond Davis needs more passes, but is it that simple?49ers.comEveryone says Vernon Davis needs more passes, but is it that simple?While on NFL Network last week, Martz said Davis was the best in-line blocking tight end in the NFL and he's probably the second best pass protector on the 49ers next to Joe Staley. Because of that, Martz said he would limit Davis's catches to 30 or year (he had 31 receptions last year).Martz didn't say it, but he believes Davis is nothing special as a receiver, probably because he often doesn't know where to go. Davis continued to prove that during OTA's obliviously striding down field a couple times when Shaun Hill was trying to throw him quick-hitting, blitz-busting passes. It conjured up the comment by Trent Dilfer who said none of the 49ers quarterbacks trusted Davis as a receiver.Now, it might be different by the start of the season. Davis is with an offensive coordinator in Jimmy Raye who developed future Hall of Famer Tony Gonzalez, and Davis caught plenty of other passes in OTA's. But if Davis doesn't catch on early in the season, Raye might start directing passes to burgeoning talent he has in his receiving corps.

 

[iSnitch]

FWIW, the coaches have said they want to make him a key part of the offense this season. Of course we'll see how he fares...as the article above briefly mentions, Dilfer claims none of the qb's trust Vernon. Supposedly his route running has been so horrible at times a couple of the qb's have complained.

On the plus side of things, it seems he's been working hard this off season, so let's hope it finally clicks!

 

[iSnitch]

Bump to replace the other Vernon thread.

 

[Faust]

Bump to replace the other Vernon thread.

Cheers iSnitch...I am hoping that a few of the 49ers fans on this board will make it to a few of the training camp sessions to report back on their observations on Vernon Davis, Crabtree, Josh Morgan, and a few other key 49er players.The San Francisco 49ers and the San Jose Mercury News are offering the 49ers Faithful free tickets to the first of four open practices during the 2009 training camp -- Mercury News Day. That practice will take place on Saturday, August 1, at 8:30am.The only way to get these exclusive tickets for the first day is through the San Jose Mercury News. Purchase the Mercury News on Tuesday, July 14 and look for the special “Training Camp Code” and instructions. Or go to Facebook.com and sign up as a fan of the San Jose Mercury News and receive news about the promotion on Tuesday. Either in print or online, you will receive instructions on going to 49ers.com to print your free tickets. One ticket admits up to two people.Additional practice sessions open to the public: Saturday, August 1 (4:30pm); Saturday, August 8 (8:30am & 4:00pm). Gates open an hour before practice begins. Information regarding online ticket registration for these sessions will be provided at a later date.This is the fifth year that the 49ers training camp will be held at the team’s Santa Clara practice facility and presented by the San Jose Mercury News and Samsung. All open practices will feature interactive games, sponsor booths and player autograph sessions for fans.During the fan practice sessions, members of the Gold Rush Cheerleading team and Sourdough Sam will also be in attendance. San Francisco 49ers tickets, merchandise and concessions will also be on sale.The 49ers training facility is located at 4949 Centennial Boulevard in Santa Clara, CA.

 

[Bri]

isnitch, is Delanie Walker better?

I believe Walker is a better football player. However, I see his fantasy upside as being extremely limited...if you were going to gamble on a SF TE, Davis is definitely the one to go with. While I remain skeptical Davis will be able to catch the ball, the fact they keep throwing it to the guy shows they DO want to get him involved. He's really not a horrible gamble for his ADP...and as an eternal optimist and die hard Niners fan, I may end up bidding the minimum in my auction league in the hope this will *finally* be his year.The realist in me will be extremely shocked if he becomes fantasy relevant for anything more than 1-2 games. It's a shame we wasted such a high draft pick on the guy but he can't catch. I do think that's something that can be improved upon a bit, but by and large I believe it's something you can or can't do. And Davis has shown us all it's not a talent he was born with.Another thing people should realize - it remains to be seen how he'll be used in the blocking. If the o-line stays healthy I could see him being used a lot more in passing situations but Marvel Smith hasn't been a beacon of health the last few years...if we take some hits up front Vernon could quickly go back to protecting the qb.

good reply, can I come at this another way?If Delanie was the starting (receiving) TE, would his stats be better than Vernon as the starting (receiving) TE?

 

[PrimUomo]

Davis' future is dependent upon the 49ers Oline pass blocking success. If whoever is QB gets sacked, Davis will blocking and Walker will be the receiver. If the Oline holds up the pocket, he will put up solid numbers. I'm not worried about his catching only because training camp will be all about him catching the football. I also think that Singletary will instill the toughness needed for him to get over any mental blocks. The 49ers bread and butter could easily be a Playaction TE Release come the regular season.

If Davis is stuck blocking, Walker catch 30-40 balls in two tight end sets.

I'd say worst case scenario for Davis is a 50/50 split of targets and best case for Davis is 80/20.

 

[Mark Wimer]

This is not the first thread about him this offseason. He's just not that good. He's not. As a Niners fan I wish he were as good as Gates or Gonzo, but the guy can't catch the ball. And he appears to be scared of getting hit. Looks like Tarzan; plays like Jane.He's been dropping passes in camp...this is with NO defenders there to light the guy up. It'd be one thing if it were Harrison dropping passes, but when your reputation is your inability to catch, failing to hold onto the ball in simple drills is not a promising start.CLICK-CLACK!He is one helluva blocker.

This:2006 SF 10 42 20 265 13.2 3 45 22 2007 SF 14 85 52 509 9.8 4 75 14 2008 SF 16 49 31 358 11.5 2 49 26 What else is there to say? Low-end fantasy TE2 at best.

 

[Traders2001]

This is not the first thread about him this offseason. He's just not that good. He's not. As a Niners fan I wish he were as good as Gates or Gonzo, but the guy can't catch the ball. And he appears to be scared of getting hit. Looks like Tarzan; plays like Jane.He's been dropping passes in camp...this is with NO defenders there to light the guy up. It'd be one thing if it were Harrison dropping passes, but when your reputation is your inability to catch, failing to hold onto the ball in simple drills is not a promising start.CLICK-CLACK!He is one helluva blocker.

Could it be possible that the problem in SF is that you have no one to throw the ball to anybody , i mean it s a joke Shaun Hill and Alex smith .On top they make no effort to get a QB in the draft or via transactio or free agen , i know most of you dont like Vick but he would be 5 times better the anything they have on their roster ( If he is reinstated of course ).

 

[FFFIEND]

Looks like Tarzan; plays like Jane....CLICK-CLACK!

Ditto. I am not going down that road again unless it is a really, really late pick. I don't see any reason why the "light" will now come on for Davis.

 

[iSnitch]

Could it be possible that the problem in SF is that you have no one to throw the ball to anybody , i mean it s a joke Shaun Hill and Alex smith .On top they make no effort to get a QB in the draft or via transactio or free agen , i know most of you dont like Vick but he would be 5 times better the anything they have on their roster ( If he is reinstated of course ).

I don't believe that is the reason, but it is entirely possible. It looks like they're going to run him on shorter routes this year...so maybe he'll have an easier time if he's running a tradition TE route where he can face the ball instead of having to make wr type catches. Really though, I just don't think he's that good when it comes to catching the ball. I mentioned Dilfer reporting the qb's didn't like throwing to him because they didn't trust him to run the correct route. And after watching him shy away from hit after hit, I've given up all realistic hope. Of course, as a fan, I will still blindly hold out hope he becomes the greatest TE to ever play the game.

 

[iSnitch]

isnitch, is Delanie Walker better?

I believe Walker is a better football player. However, I see his fantasy upside as being extremely limited...if you were going to gamble on a SF TE, Davis is definitely the one to go with. While I remain skeptical Davis will be able to catch the ball, the fact they keep throwing it to the guy shows they DO want to get him involved. He's really not a horrible gamble for his ADP...and as an eternal optimist and die hard Niners fan, I may end up bidding the minimum in my auction league in the hope this will *finally* be his year.The realist in me will be extremely shocked if he becomes fantasy relevant for anything more than 1-2 games. It's a shame we wasted such a high draft pick on the guy but he can't catch. I do think that's something that can be improved upon a bit, but by and large I believe it's something you can or can't do. And Davis has shown us all it's not a talent he was born with.Another thing people should realize - it remains to be seen how he'll be used in the blocking. If the o-line stays healthy I could see him being used a lot more in passing situations but Marvel Smith hasn't been a beacon of health the last few years...if we take some hits up front Vernon could quickly go back to protecting the qb.

good reply, can I come at this another way?If Delanie was the starting (receiving) TE, would his stats be better than Vernon as the starting (receiving) TE?

Yes, I believe they would be.

 

[iSnitch]

Davis' future is dependent upon the 49ers Oline pass blocking success. If whoever is QB gets sacked, Davis will blocking and Walker will be the receiver. If the Oline holds up the pocket, he will put up solid numbers. I'm not worried about his catching only because training camp will be all about him catching the football. I also think that Singletary will instill the toughness needed for him to get over any mental blocks. The 49ers bread and butter could easily be a Playaction TE Release come the regular season.If Davis is stuck blocking, Walker catch 30-40 balls in two tight end sets.I'd say worst case scenario for Davis is a 50/50 split of targets and best case for Davis is 80/20.

I do realize it is entirely possible for Davis to improve upon his catching, but what makes you think some Training Camp will fix his problems? I mean, don't you think the Vikings and Jaguars spent Training Camps working with Troy Williamson? Why can't he catch the ball yet?

 

[iSnitch]

Bump to replace the other Vernon thread.

Cheers iSnitch...I am hoping that a few of the 49ers fans on this board will make it to a few of the training camp sessions to report back on their observations on Vernon Davis, Crabtree, Josh Morgan, and a few other key 49er players.The San Francisco 49ers and the San Jose Mercury News are offering the 49ers Faithful free tickets to the first of four open practices during the 2009 training camp -- Mercury News Day. That practice will take place on Saturday, August 1, at 8:30am.The only way to get these exclusive tickets for the first day is through the San Jose Mercury News. Purchase the Mercury News on Tuesday, July 14 and look for the special “Training Camp Code” and instructions. Or go to Facebook.com and sign up as a fan of the San Jose Mercury News and receive news about the promotion on Tuesday. Either in print or online, you will receive instructions on going to 49ers.com to print your free tickets. One ticket admits up to two people.Additional practice sessions open to the public: Saturday, August 1 (4:30pm); Saturday, August 8 (8:30am & 4:00pm). Gates open an hour before practice begins. Information regarding online ticket registration for these sessions will be provided at a later date.This is the fifth year that the 49ers training camp will be held at the team’s Santa Clara practice facility and presented by the San Jose Mercury News and Samsung. All open practices will feature interactive games, sponsor booths and player autograph sessions for fans.During the fan practice sessions, members of the Gold Rush Cheerleading team and Sourdough Sam will also be in attendance. San Francisco 49ers tickets, merchandise and concessions will also be on sale.The 49ers training facility is located at 4949 Centennial Boulevard in Santa Clara, CA.

Wow, that's a great deal. I'm going to post this in the Niners thread as well. Once training camp starts I'm sure we'll have a few fans report what they're seeing. I actually think this could be a good year for us! Of course, I think that every year...

 

[Faust]

From Rotoworld:

New offensive coordinator Jimmy Raye continues to talk up Vernon Davis. Davis might be too risky to gamble on as a fantasy starter, but don't be surprised if he shatters his previous career highs of 52 catches, 509 yards, and four touchdowns in Raye's tight end-friendly system.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

I was trying to find some solid info on the 49ers OTAs and came across the following info pertaining to Vernon Davis. I fully admit that I have a bias against Vernon Davis from his disappointing season last year; however, I need to remind myself not to let bias creep in, as the mantra is something to the effect of "Like no player, hate no player as all players have value"

Errrrrrrr...........try two years. The guys has been bustalicious since he came into the league. I can't believe he even warrants a thread again this year to overhype his completely overhyped non-existent skills.

 

[Biabreakable]

I was trying to find some solid info on the 49ers OTAs and came across the following info pertaining to Vernon Davis. I fully admit that I have a bias against Vernon Davis from his disappointing season last year; however, I need to remind myself not to let bias creep in, as the mantra is something to the effect of "Like no player, hate no player as all players have value"

Errrrrrrr...........try two years. The guys has been bustalicious since he came into the league. I can't believe he even warrants a thread again this year to overhype his completely overhyped non-existent skills.

bustalicious indeed lol

 

[iSnitch]

Could Mike Martz be right? When he was the offensive coordinator for the 49ers last year he wasn't right about much. He picked the wrong quarterback to start the season, he completely imploded in Arizona at the end of the game that led to the season's defining, playoff-negating loss. But he might be right about tight end Vernon Davis.

Everyone says Vernond Davis needs more passes, but is it that simple?

49ers.com

Everyone says Vernon Davis needs more passes, but is it that simple?

While on NFL Network last week, Martz said Davis was the best in-line blocking tight end in the NFL and he's probably the second best pass protector on the 49ers next to Joe Staley. Because of that, Martz said he would limit Davis's catches to 30 or year (he had 31 receptions last year).

Martz didn't say it, but he believes Davis is nothing special as a receiver, probably because he often doesn't know where to go. Davis continued to prove that during OTA's obliviously striding down field a couple times when Shaun Hill was trying to throw him quick-hitting, blitz-busting passes. It conjured up the comment by Trent Dilfer who said none of the 49ers quarterbacks trusted Davis as a receiver.

Now, it might be different by the start of the season. Davis is with an offensive coordinator in Jimmy Raye who developed future Hall of Famer Tony Gonzalez, and Davis caught plenty of other passes in OTA's. But if Davis doesn't catch on early in the season, Raye might start directing passes to burgeoning talent he has in his receiving corps.

Important bump to negate any hype...especially the bolded part.So let's see: He has trouble catching the football. He folds like a lawn chair when he sees hits coming. He doesn't often run the correct route.

The OTA's the article mentions is talking about this off season...

 

[TLEF316]

The guy can't catch the football. Like someone else said...if it weren't for his 40 time, nobody would care.

 

[Faust]

I was trying to find some solid info on the 49ers OTAs and came across the following info pertaining to Vernon Davis. I fully admit that I have a bias against Vernon Davis from his disappointing season last year; however, I need to remind myself not to let bias creep in, as the mantra is something to the effect of "Like no player, hate no player as all players have value"

Errrrrrrr...........try two years. The guys has been bustalicious since he came into the league. I can't believe he even warrants a thread again this year to overhype his completely overhyped non-existent skills.

He finished as TE #14 in only his second year (despite playing in the 49ers putrid offense ), but then regressed in his third, so I would say last year qualified as one disappointing year. This thread isn't to over hype him, but to figure out if he has now become a value pick because the hype has worn off and he can now outperform his draft slot.

 

[Frisco]

Nothing much else to say at this point. OTA's revealed he's still dropping passes, still running the incorrect routes, but they're still throwing him the ball a fair amount.

I cannot imagine Raye would be dumb enough to keep throwing him the ball if he doesn't shape up so it'll be quite interesting to see how TC shakes out. I will admit it's entirely possible he could be a tremendous value pick.

 

[Faust]

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article/20...-scuffling-ways

SANTA CLARA, Calif. -- Vernon Davis found out in a hurry that his old antics won't be tolerated with Mike Singletary running the San Francisco 49ers' show.

As if Davis needed a reminder.

After the testy tight end scuffled - he won't call it a fight, rather just an act of being competitive - with linebacker Marques Harris during a recent practice, everybody paid. As in all the Niners running enough "gassers," 12 sprints across the width of the field, to make one pass out as Davis so put it.

"A few guys were mad, but like I told them, 'You can't get mad because there will be times you make the rest of us run,"' Davis said. "I told them they should be happy that I made them run because it's extra work for us and a chance for us to get better, keep our lungs going."

The excitable Davis, a regular fighter during his first three NFL seasons, received a talking-to from Singletary. Star running back Frank Gore spoke up as well. The two have an amicable relationship.

"I wasn't mad about having to run gassers," Gore said Saturday. "I just feel it's his fourth year now, and I told him it shouldn't be him now. Everybody makes mistakes but it shouldn't be him. OK, a rookie, I accept that. It's his fourth year now, now it's time. It's time to be a man and try to do everything right. There are younger guys who probably look up to you on the team."

All this after Davis said before training camp began that he agreed with Singletary's no-fighting rules and that he was beyond such behavior. All this after Davis' infamous early exit against Seattle last season on Singletary's orders - because the then-interim coach disapproved of how Davis responded to him following a personal-foul penalty. It was Singletary's debut after taking over from the fired Mike Nolan.

"I'd rather play with 10 people and just get penalized all the way until we have to do something else rather than play with 11 when I know that right now that person is not sold out to be a part of this team," Singletary said at the time. "It is more about them than it is about the team. Cannot play with them, cannot win with them, cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win."

Two years ago, Davis tangled almost daily at training camp and once even went after one of his offensive teammates.

Davis said that Harris, the outside linebacker responsible for covering tight ends, held his jersey during Thursday's first practice. The two had to be separated.

"He held my jersey and I couldn't get off of it, so I swiped his hands out the way and he came up and pushed me," Davis said. "With me being competitive, I reacted back to it. ...

"Sometimes it's bound to happen, but that's not what Singletary wants. He wants us to just let it go and move on because you get in a game situation and something like that goes down, boom, I'm out of the game."

Whether he's finally learned a lesson is anybody's guess. Volatile Vernon himself seems like he wants to cool his jets.

"It's a fine line. It's football and there's a lot of competitiveness," receiver Arnaz Battle said. "Coach Singletary has instilled he wants us to be a family and he wants us to be together and not fight. He wants us to resolve conflicts as men. Vernon, it's his fourth year and he's learned a lot and come a long way. He's continued to mature and he's on the right track."

The 25-year-old Davis, the 49ers' first-round draft pick in 2006, was a Pro Bowl alternate last season after making 31 receptions for 358 yards and two touchdowns in former offensive coordinator Mike Martz's receiver-friendly spread offense. His catches ranked third on the team.

Davis hopes to be utilized more regularly under new offensive coordinator Jimmy Raye, who while in Kansas City kept All-Pro tight end Tony Gonzalez a main part of the Chiefs' mix.

"The way we play offensively has always been tight-end friendly," Raye said. "At the places I've been, the tight end is really an integral part of what we do. His speed and athleticism and his ability to inline block is unusual for a tight end. As a combination of that and his ability to run down field and match up and catch the ball, I see him being very good for us."

That is, if Davis can keep his cool.

 

[Balco]

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article/20...-scuffling-ways

SANTA CLARA, Calif. -- Vernon Davis found out in a hurry that his old antics won't be tolerated with Mike Singletary running the San Francisco 49ers' show.

"A few guys were mad, but like I told them, 'You can't get mad because there will be times you make the rest of us run,"' Davis said. "I told them they should be happy that I made them run because it's extra work for us and a chance for us to get better, keep our lungs going."

Wow. 4 years in the league and still as immature as when he came in.

 

[Faust]

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article/20...-scuffling-ways

SANTA CLARA, Calif. -- Vernon Davis found out in a hurry that his old antics won't be tolerated with Mike Singletary running the San Francisco 49ers' show.

"A few guys were mad, but like I told them, 'You can't get mad because there will be times you make the rest of us run,"' Davis said. "I told them they should be happy that I made them run because it's extra work for us and a chance for us to get better, keep our lungs going."

Wow. 4 years in the league and still as immature as when he came in.

That was my thought as well...a fourth year player should know better and shouldn't be so nonchalant about it either. Frank Gore was not impressed:Frank Gore wants to see more maturity out of Vernon Davis, and he told him so. "It's his fourth year now. Now it's time," Gore said. The 49ers running back spoke to reporters a day after Davis said some teammates were upset by his latest training-camp fight. Coach Mike Singletary punished the entire team after Davis' scuffle by making players run sideline-to-sideline sprints. Gore was among those unamused. "I wasn't mad about having to run gassers," he said. "I just feel it's his fourth year now, and I told him it shouldn't be him now. Everybody makes mistakes but it shouldn't be him. OK, a rookie? I accept that."

-San Jose Mercury News

 

[Faust]

This was posted from Matt Barrows 49ers blog:

http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/49ers...ing-camp-w.html

August 9, 2009

Training camp week in review

One week of training-camp practices is in the books. Here's a quick summary: At this point a year ago, it was impossible to say who was leading the quarterback competition because Alex Smith and Shaun Hill looked so awful. This year it's hard to judge because they both look sharp. There are many reasons for this switcheroo, including the fact that both are a year wiser, they have better targets in the passing game and that Smith has gotten over his shoulder injuries. The biggest difference, however, is the teaching methods of Mike Martz v. Jimmy Raye.

Martz' style was akin to tossing your four year old in the deep end and seeing if he/she can stay afloat. Raye, meanwhile, is carefully teaching the kid the proper strokes before nudging him into the pool. That is, Martz threw the whole playbook at his pupils - hundreds and hundreds of plays - at once, forcing them to learn on the fly. The result is that the players felt overloaded (by design) and struggled early in training camp. Raye is putting quality over quantity. He has fewer plays, but he wants his team to master them before moving on.

Whose method is better? Smith and Hill, both of whom felt last year's competition was rigged for third-party candidate J.T. O'Sullivan, are far, far, far happier under Raye. But we won't have the true answer to this question until the regular season.

Who's looking good.

Vernon Davis. Yes, he got into another practice-field fight. And no, he wasn't exactly contrite afterward. And yes, he appears to be operating in a parallel universe called "Vernon's World." But the guy has looked awesome so far in an offense that promises to lean on the tight end in the passing game. He even caught a pass over his shoulder yesterday, something that flummoxed him greatly last season.

Frank Gore. If I were the 49ers, I'd give Gore the Han Solo treatment - freeze him in carbonite and then thaw him out three days before the opener. That is, Gore looks so good right now that you don't want to risk an injury before the games start to count.

Ahmad Brooks. Parys Haralson's week-long hip injury may have been a blessing in disguise. It gave Brooks valuable playing time with the first-string defense and likely reassured coaches that Brooks can play there in a pinch. No one is anointing Brooks as the second coming of Lawrence Taylor, but it does seem that moving him from inside linebacker to outside linebacker has unlocked his potential.

Who's not.

Jason Hill. While Brandon Jones, Josh Morgan, Isaac Bruce, Arnaz Battle, Dominique Zeigler and even Micheal Spurlock have jumped out at times early in training camp, Hill has been lost in the shuffle. Perhaps he's still working his way back from the hamstring injuries that slowed him this spring. The bottom line is that with Jones out for perhaps two months, Hill will get an opportunity to prove to Jimmy Raye that he is deserving of a bigger role.

Bear Pascoe. The Bear, as he's known in the press trailer, really struggled during his first week. But that's probably by design. The coaches are purposefully being hard on him because they want to be able to count on him this season. A good sign: Pascoe looked like he started to bounce back on Saturday. Here's a story I wrote today on Pascoe's hard-knocks education.

Thomas Clayton. To be honest, I don't know if Clayton is having a good camp or not because he rarely makes an appearance in team drills. Based on number of carries, rookie Kory Sheets appears to be ahead of him on the depth chart. Not a good sign for a guy who has been tantalizingly close to making the 53-man roster the last two years.