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Vibram Fivefingers (1 Viewer)

I tried trying a pair on. It is a royal PITA to thread your toes into the little toe culdesacs. Do not want.

 
Alias said:
I tried trying a pair on. It is a royal PITA to thread your toes into the little toe culdesacs. Do not want.
Click to expand...
This does look like it would be annoying. Can't they just make that part of the shoe like a normal shoe? Or does that kill the entire point?
 
SierraKiloBravo said:
Alias said:
I tried trying a pair on. It is a royal PITA to thread your toes into the little toe culdesacs. Do not want.
Click to expand...
This does look like it would be annoying. Can't they just make that part of the shoe like a normal shoe? Or does that kill the entire point?
Click to expand...
That would seriously impact the trendiness factor, decrease visual impact, and thus lower the selling price and profit margins.
 
Das Boot said:
SierraKiloBravo said:
Alias said:
I tried trying a pair on. It is a royal PITA to thread your toes into the little toe culdesacs. Do not want.
Click to expand...
This does look like it would be annoying. Can't they just make that part of the shoe like a normal shoe? Or does that kill the entire point?
Click to expand...
That would seriously impact the trendiness factor, decrease visual impact, and thus lower the selling price and profit margins.
Click to expand...
While I agree that they certainly charge a premium for this new look/style, I think it also kills the entire concept which is to make running with the "rubber sock" more like running barefoot.
 
Alias said:
Das Boot said:
SierraKiloBravo said:
Alias said:
I tried trying a pair on. It is a royal PITA to thread your toes into the little toe culdesacs. Do not want.
Click to expand...
This does look like it would be annoying. Can't they just make that part of the shoe like a normal shoe? Or does that kill the entire point?
Click to expand...
That would seriously impact the trendiness factor, decrease visual impact, and thus lower the selling price and profit margins.
Click to expand...
While I agree that they certainly charge a premium for this new look/style, I think it also kills the entire concept which is to make running with the "rubber sock" more like running barefoot.
Click to expand...
Agreed that's part of it, but I think the bigger component to their "barefoot feeling" selling point is the flexible sole.
 
Jaysus said:
On sale for $49.99 here - free shipping on orders over $50.
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I just ordered a pair off that site. It's not the color I wanted, but for $30 off I'll do it considering that I'm only wearing them to jog or work out at the gym anyway. For everyone comparing them to crocs, I think that's silly, and I hate crocs BTW. The theory behind these intuitively seems correct to me, and I already got shin splints from running recently after I started working out again. Unlike Crocs which are built for comfort, these seem built to optimize the body's performance and to reduce wear and tear while physically active. Yeah, they look funny but I don't much care if they perform as advertised.

I will report back.

 
I think the 5-fingers will have the same disadvantages as the Nike Free

Pros - extremely light, feel like you are running barefoot

Cons - very little support, should not be used to run long distances until you have built up the appropriate muscle strength in your foot so that the normal extra support is not needed

 
I would think looking ridiculous would be half the fun of wearing these. Probably not a good choice for most self-important FBGs who cannot laugh at themselves.

 
Wiggling Their Toes at the Shoe Giants

By AMY CORTESE

August 30, 2009

TODD BYERS was among more than 20,000 people running the San Francisco Marathon last month. Dressed in shorts and a T-shirt, he might have blended in with the other runners, except for one glaring difference: he was barefoot.

Even in anything-goes San Francisco, his lack of footwear prompted curious stares. His photo was snapped, and he heard one runner grumble, “I just don’t want the guy without shoes to beat me.”

Mr. Byers, 46, a running coach and event manager from Long Beach, Calif., who clocked in at 4 hours 48 minutes, has run 75 marathons since 2004 in bare feet. “People are kind of weird about it,” he shrugs.

Maybe they shouldn’t be. Recent research suggests that for all their high-tech features, modern running shoes may not actually do much to improve a runner’s performance or prevent injuries. Some runners are convinced that they are better off with shoes that are little more than thin gloves for the feet — or with no shoes at all.

Plenty of medical experts disagree with this notion. The result has been a raging debate in running circles, pitting a quirky band of barefoot runners and researchers against the running-shoe and sports-medicine establishments.

It has also inspired some innovative footwear. Upstart companies like Vibram, Feelmax and Terra Plana are challenging the running-shoe status quo with thin-sole designs meant to combine the benefits of going barefoot with a layer of protection. This move toward minimalism could have a significant impact on not only running shoes but also on the broader $17 billion sports shoe market.

The shoe industry giants defend their products, saying they help athletes perform better and protect feet from stress and strain — not to mention the modern world’s concrete and broken glass.

But for all the technological advances promoted by the industry — the roll bars, the computer chips and the memory foam — experts say the injury rate among runners is virtually unchanged since the 1970s, when the modern running shoe was introduced. Some ailments, like those involving the knee and Achilles’ tendon, have increased.

“There’s not a lot of evidence that running shoes have made people better off,” said Daniel E. Lieberman, a professor of human evolutionary biology at Harvard, who has researched the role of running in human evolution.

Makers of athletic shoes have grown and prospered by selling a steady stream of new and improved models designed to cushion, coddle and correct the feet.

In October, for example, the Japanese athletic-shoe maker Asics will introduce the latest version of its Gel-Kinsei, a $180 marvel of engineering that boasts its “Impact Guidance System” and a heel unit with multiple shock absorbers. Already offered by Adidas is the Porsche Design Sport Bounce:S running shoe, with metallic springs inspired by a car’s suspension system. It costs as much as $500.

Some question the benefit of all that technology. Dr. Craig Richards, a researcher at the School of Medicine and Public Health at the University of Newcastle in Australia — and, it should be noted, a designer of minimalist shoes — surveyed the published literature and could not find a single clinical study showing that cushioned or corrective running shoes prevented injury or improved performance. His findings were published last year in The British Journal of Sports Medicine.

Other experts say that there is little research showing that the minimalist approach is any better, and some say it can be flat-out dangerous.

“In 95 percent of the population or higher, running barefoot will land you in my office,” said Dr. Lewis G. Maharam, medical director for the New York Road Runners, the group that organizes the New York City Marathon. “A very small number of people are biomechanically perfect,” he said, so most need some sort of supportive or corrective footwear.

Nevertheless, a growing number of people now believe in running as nature intended — and if not barefoot, then as close to it as possible. They remain a tiny segment of the population — some would say fringe. But popular training methods like ChiRunning and the Pose Method that promote a more “natural” gait, as well as “Born to Run,” a best-selling new book about long-distance running by Christopher McDougall, have helped spur interest.

Proponents of this approach contend that naked feet are perfectly capable of running long distances, and that encasing them in the fortress of modern footwear weakens foot muscles and ligaments and blocks vital sensory input about terrain.

“The shoe arguably got in the way of evolution,” said Galahad Clark, a seventh-generation shoemaker and chief executive of the shoemaker Terra Plana, based in London. “They’re like little foot coffins that stopped the foot from working the way it’s supposed to work.”

The big shoe companies are clearly paying attention to the trend. Nike was first to market with the Nike Free, a flexible shoe for “barefootlike running” with less padding than the company’s typical offerings. It was introduced in 2005 after Nike representatives discovered that a prominent track coach to whom they supplied shoes had his team train barefoot.

But some in the industry are critical of the barefoot push. Simon Bartold, an international research consultant for Asics, said advocates of barefoot running “are propagating a campaign of misinformation.”

SPEND some time in Concord, Mass., and you might catch a glimpse of a fit 51-year-old man in a pair of funny-looking socks running down the bucolic streets.

That would be Tony Post, the president and C.E.O. of Vibram USA, on a lunchtime run. And those socks? They’re actually thin rubber “shoes” with individual toe pockets. Called Vibram FiveFingers, they’ve been selling briskly to runners and athletes looking to strengthen their feet and sharpen their game.

When Vibram, an Italian company known for its rugged rubber soles, designed the FiveFingers a few years ago, company officials figured that they would appeal to boaters, kayakers and yogis. Instead, the shoes, which sell for $75 to $85, caught on with runners, fitness buffs and even professional athletes: David Diehl, the New York Giants tackle, trains in them.

Mr. Post, a shoe industry veteran, said he believed that the business was poised for a shakeup. “It used to be all about adding more,” he said. “Now, we’re trying to strip a lot of that away.”

Strange as they look, the FiveFingers shoes hark back to a simpler time. Humans have long run barefoot or in flat soles. Professor Lieberman’s research suggests that two million years ago, our ancestors’ ability to run long distances helped them outlast their prey, providing a steady diet of protein long before spears and arrows. More recently, at the 1960 Summer Olympics in Rome, Abebe Bikila, an Ethiopian runner, caused a stir when he ran the marathon barefoot and won.

Things changed in the early 1970s, when Bill Bowerman, a track coach turned entrepreneur, created a cushioned running shoe that allowed runners to take longer strides and land on their heels, rather than a more natural mid- or forefoot strike. Mr. Bowerman and his business partner, Phil Knight, marketed the new shoes under the Nike brand, and the rest is history.

At the same time, millions of Americans began taking up running as a pastime. Those twin trends ushered in a golden age of biomechanics research. “There was a lot of concern about injuries because of the boom,” said Trampas TenBroek, manager of sports research at New Balance. The logic, he said, was that “if you build a heel lift and make it thicker, you take stress off the Achilles’ tendon.”

Walk into a sports store today and you’ll see the results: shoes with inch-thick heels and orthotics designed to correct overpronation, supination and a host of other ills.

Mr. McDougall, the “Born to Run” author, ” said manufacturers, doctors and retailers were doing runners a disservice by pushing such shoes. “People are buying it thinking it’s going to do something for them, and it’s not,” he said.

Mr. McDougall’s book is centered on the Tarahumara Indians of Mexico, known for epic 100-mile runs with nothing on their feet but strips of rubber. The book has become something of a manifesto for barefoot runners.

After suffering chronic foot pain and being advised by sports medicine doctors to give up running, Mr. McDougall tried thin-soled shoes. Now, he said, he runs long distances without shoes — or pain.

THAT seems to be a common experience among barefoot converts. “When people get it, it’s almost biblical,” said Mr. Clark at Terra Plana. His initial line of minimal shoes, the Vivo Barefoot, is intended for walking; a performance model, the $150 Evo, is due at year-end.

Sales of minimalist shoes, while still tiny, are growing at a rapid clip. Mr. Clark figures that he will sell 70,000 pairs of minimal shoes this year, double last year’s volume. The shoes have sold mostly online and through 10 Terra Plana stores worldwide.

Vibram says sales of its FiveFingers have tripled every year since they were introduced in 2006, and Mr. Post said he expects revenue of $10 million this year in North America alone.

Many professionals agree that while barefoot running may have some benefits, those who are tempted to try running barefoot — or nearly so — should proceed slowly, as they should with any other significant change to their running habits. They also say that more research is needed.

Sean Murphy, engineering manager for advanced products at New Balance, says that there have been many studies suggesting “that shoes can correct biomechanical abnormalities and risk factors, therefore minimizing the likelihood of injury.”

When asked for an example, Mr. Murphy pointed to a 2006 study by three doctoral students that found that wearing the appropriate type of running shoe for one’s foot could reduce the shock of impact or unwanted rotation of leg bones. The study did not address injury rates.

AMID all the controversy, barefoot running and natural gaits are the subject of intensive research across the shoe industry. Companies don’t want to miss out if it turns out to be more than just a fad.

At New Balance’s sports research lab in Lawrence, Mass., Mr. TenBroek and Mr. Murphy are studying the biomechanics of running barefoot and in soles of varying thickness, while designing a “lower profile” shoe.

Asics, too, sees promise in this area. “As technology improves, we will definitely go to a more minimal style,” Mr. Bartold said.

Those big companies could end up profiting from the movement — or they could have trouble getting on board.

Danny Dreyer, the founder of ChiRunning, which uses the tai chi principles of harnessing energy and core muscles to promote a more effortless way of running, said he had worked with a few shoe companies to help design minimalist shoes. In each case, he said, marketing and profit concerns trumped design: “Their profit and direction is based on ‘More shoe is better,’ ” said Mr. Dreyer, who is also a long-distance runner.

Mr. Bartold of Asics, which has not worked with Mr. Dreyer, said the industry had runners’ best interests in mind. “It’s all about trying to protect the athlete,” he said.

Nike describes the Free, its minimalist shoe, as a “training tool.” It offers models with varying degrees of cushioning; they are priced at $55 to $110.

“The key is to offer a range of options, because every runner has different needs,” said Derek Kent, a Nike spokesman. “If you want that sensation of barefoot running, there is the Free, but if you want a product with a little more cushioning and support, we have that, too.”

While Nike would not disclose detailed sales information, Mr. Kent said sales of the Free grew at double-digit rates in the last two fiscal years, with sales in Japan and China especially strong.

Curt Munson, co-owner of Playmakers, a running shop in Okemos, Mich., said that in his conversations with major shoe companies lately, “they see that they need to address this” but “they’re just not sure how much.” But, he said, they must be thinking, “If we say this is the best, then are we saying that what we’ve done before is not good?”

The back-to-basics movement is more than a fad, said Mr. Munson, who runs in FiveFingers. “Most people are not ready to run barefoot,” he said, “but I do think they are ready to go back to ‘less is more.’ ”
Click to expand...
 
Saints-Man said:
Kirby said:
Supposed to be great for deadlifting and squats.... but I'm not paying that for a shoe I'll wear for 2 hours a week.
Click to expand...
Kirby, do you know why this is?
Click to expand...
Something to do with the heel being higher than the toes in most shoes and you're supposed to drive through your heels on those lifts. I use some offbrand chucks in the winter and go bare in the summer.Here's an article with some other reasons.

 
I have two webbed toes on my left foot. While great for swimming it appears I will be on the short end of the stick in regards to the vibram fivefinger shoe department.

I feel so left out.

 
Bought these a couple of months ago, and loved them at first. Then I went and ran a couple of miles and the top of my foot got a bit sore. I didn't think too much of it and ran again the next night. I only made it about 3/4 miles out before the pain was unbearable and I had to limp home.

for the last 2 weeks I've been limping while dealing with the tendonitis that these shoes caused. I can now thankfully put full pressure on my foot standing still, but still cannot push off with my toes.

 
haven't read the entire article ye, but I don't see how these could be good for people with high arches. My arches are so high that when I leave footprints all you can see are the heel and the ball. The middle part of my foot doesn't touch the ground at all. My foot doctor said "you should never be barefoot".

I'm sure I'm an outlier though.

 
Ran barefoot for the first time yesterday for just under 2 miles... all I can say is to start slow, because my calves are killing me today. I have had knee pain at the end of runs before (usually ran between 2.5-4 miles) where I feel my knees want to give out. While I didn't have knee pain at the end of my run, it was a shorter distance. Also, I ran on a mix of grass and pavement/sidewalks.

 
I have to say I'm kind of baffled by the people that run in these. They have zero support and zero cushion. I mean why not just pick a pair of chuck taylors and run?

J

 
OK, went running in these for the first time yesterday, just a couple of miles, all of it on pavement. I like them. No back problems or anything like that though that you'd expect from inadequate support. I even stubbed/scuffed my toe while running on some uneven pavement, and it was no problem.

Only thing was my calves are sore as hell because, as advertised, they make you run more on the balls of your feet so your calves have a lot more support work to do. This will get better over time. (It makes sense that if regular shoes essentially put a wedge under your heels, and you remove that wedge so as not to land on your heels when you stride, that you now have to support those heels more.)

I give them a :goodposting:

 
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valence said:
haven't read the entire article ye, but I don't see how these could be good for people with high arches. My arches are so high that when I leave footprints all you can see are the heel and the ball. The middle part of my foot doesn't touch the ground at all. My foot doctor said "you should never be barefoot".

I'm sure I'm an outlier though.
Click to expand...
I have high arches too, but no problems for me. My feet aren't even sore after using them for the first time yesterday, all on pavement. I was even pushing a jogging stroller with my son in it.
dfwboiler said:
Ran barefoot for the first time yesterday for just under 2 miles... all I can say is to start slow, because my calves are killing me today. I have had knee pain at the end of runs before (usually ran between 2.5-4 miles) where I feel my knees want to give out. While I didn't have knee pain at the end of my run, it was a shorter distance. Also, I ran on a mix of grass and pavement/sidewalks.
Click to expand...
:football:
 
Otis said:
These look ridiculous. If you told me crocs were incredibly comfortable, that wouldn't make a difference.
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do you want to fight, cause I'll fight you right now, say the word and it's go time, you'll get your butt kicked by a dude in crocs
 
I saw these on Tim Ferriss' blog. THey look pretty interesting.

Do you wear glove-like socks? Or no socks? I'd hate to run or work out in anything without socks.

 
Maroney=Sped said:
OK, went running in these for the first time yesterday, just a couple of miles, all of it on pavement. I like them. No back problems or anything like that though that you'd expect from inadequate support. I even stubbed/scuffed my toe while running on some uneven pavement, and it was no problem. Only thing was my calves are sore as hell because, as advertised, they make you run more on the balls of your feet so your calves have a lot more support work to do. This will get better over time. (It makes sense that if regular shoes essentially put a wedge under your heels, and you remove that wedge so as not to land on your heels when you stride, that you now have to support those heels more.) I give them a :thumbup:
Click to expand...
Have run with them since, including on consecutive days and all on pavement. The calves have indeed improved, and again I have no back, knee, ankle or foot complaints. Only the calves felt sore, but it was the right kind of muscle soreness.
 
I didn't see this thread the first time around; after reading about them think I'll give it a try. For the past twenty years I've almost exclusively worn workboots, with some of the associated stress on my legs, etc--but I do remember going barefoot for years during school (beachbum), even running track and playing in a basketball league where our team went without shoes. As hard as it is to find comfortable, lightweight casual shoes my size, these might at least be good for water sports.

Going through all those links in Maurile's post, I also got a kick out of

(Sissom's workout video). Check out his stretching routine, starting at about the 00:45 mark. That's been my rest routine for years and years--having worked primarily in construction and facilities during that time, and often not having anywhere to actually sit down. People have gotten used to seeing me squatting down that way for lengthy breaks--though the past year or so it's gotten harder on the knees than before...
 
One question for those who have worn these--how do they wear? It seems like they wouldn't have a good life expectancy on concrete and such.

 
Maroney=Sped said:
Maroney=Sped said:
OK, went running in these for the first time yesterday, just a couple of miles, all of it on pavement. I like them. No back problems or anything like that though that you'd expect from inadequate support. I even stubbed/scuffed my toe while running on some uneven pavement, and it was no problem. Only thing was my calves are sore as hell because, as advertised, they make you run more on the balls of your feet so your calves have a lot more support work to do. This will get better over time. (It makes sense that if regular shoes essentially put a wedge under your heels, and you remove that wedge so as not to land on your heels when you stride, that you now have to support those heels more.) I give them a :goodposting:
Click to expand...
Have run with them since, including on consecutive days and all on pavement. The calves have indeed improved, and again I have no back, knee, ankle or foot complaints. Only the calves felt sore, but it was the right kind of muscle soreness.
Click to expand...
And I'm still recovering from the tendontitis... proceed with caution
 
Punchie said:
Maroney=Sped said:
Maroney=Sped said:
OK, went running in these for the first time yesterday, just a couple of miles, all of it on pavement. I like them. No back problems or anything like that though that you'd expect from inadequate support. I even stubbed/scuffed my toe while running on some uneven pavement, and it was no problem. Only thing was my calves are sore as hell because, as advertised, they make you run more on the balls of your feet so your calves have a lot more support work to do. This will get better over time. (It makes sense that if regular shoes essentially put a wedge under your heels, and you remove that wedge so as not to land on your heels when you stride, that you now have to support those heels more.) I give them a :)
Click to expand...
Have run with them since, including on consecutive days and all on pavement. The calves have indeed improved, and again I have no back, knee, ankle or foot complaints. Only the calves felt sore, but it was the right kind of muscle soreness.
Click to expand...
And I'm still recovering from the tendontitis... proceed with caution
Click to expand...
Interesting. Where? In your knees? I got shin splints when I began running - also on pavement - in my regular cross-trainers, but that's not happened with these.
 
glumpy said:
One question for those who have worn these--how do they wear? It seems like they wouldn't have a good life expectancy on concrete and such.
Click to expand...
Supposedly the same as regular shoes. In the handful of times I've worn them I've not seen any unusual wear and tear on them. Only time will tell, however. I'm also interested to see how the form fitting fabric part of them holds up as well.
 
glumpy said:
One question for those who have worn these--how do they wear? It seems like they wouldn't have a good life expectancy on concrete and such.
Click to expand...
So far I've bought two pairs of shoes in the barefoot genre. Vivo Barefoot from Terra Plana for around $160, I think, and Vibram Fivefinger Sprints for $50. (Both were on sale.)The Vivo Barefoots are already worn out. The canvas on top is dirty and ripped, and is starting to separate from the sole on one shoe. They're exceptionally comfortable, but I won't buy them again because the cost-durability ratio kind of sucks.The Vibrams are still basically like new. They get dirty, but then I just wash them in the shower (you can also put them in the clothes washing machine) and they're back to like new. They're made of very durable material so wear and tear is almost non-existent. I suspect they'll last for a very long time.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
glumpy said:
One question for those who have worn these--how do they wear? It seems like they wouldn't have a good life expectancy on concrete and such.
Click to expand...
I know a guy who swears by these. He's put 600+ miles on his pair and they still look like they just came out of the box. There's no way I'm switching from my Asics to these, but durability does not appear to be an issue.
 
SierraKiloBravo said:
Alias said:
I tried trying a pair on. It is a royal PITA to thread your toes into the little toe culdesacs. Do not want.
Click to expand...
This does look like it would be annoying. Can't they just make that part of the shoe like a normal shoe? Or does that kill the entire point?
Click to expand...
If you want a running shoe that will simulate the effect of the Fivefingers without you looking like a ##### while wearing them, then try the Nike Free 3.0. The concept is supposed to mimmick barefoot running.I've been running for years and would never consider buying Nike running sneakers. Then I tried the Nike Free 3.0 and I'll never consider any other running sneaker.

 
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