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Vick: Em Smith leading the charge for the apologists (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter BigRed
- Start date
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I would love to read it, but it won' come up. I guess too many hits on the server right now or something.
How is this an apologist?
Do people even read things? Emmitt was being enshrined and Vick is the #1 story right now, so of course he has to answer questions about it. This isn't like Portis being an idiot. Seems to me he is basically saying that he didn't think Vick was the Columbian Drug Lord of dog fighting, if you will, but because he is so famous he is going to take the fall in the public. Emmitt probably thinks that with $$$$$$$ riding on it for Vick that maybe the Feds can get him to roll over on people running the show.By the way, I have no idea if Emmitt is 100% off base or not. I doubt Emmitt knows anymore that what he has read about this, so to try and read into his answers too much is kind of silly. It is unfortunate that he even had to answer Vick questions at his Hall of Fame enshrinement. He probably said more than he should have because he should have known that people would twist his words because Emmitt is as big a football name as Vick is.
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mad sweeney
Footballguy
First of all, what info does Emmit have that gives him this insight? It's just a notable NFL guy with a sound bite. He ruins his theory in the first paragraph saying that VIck is the biggest fish in the pond. If you have the big fish, who else do you need to go after? Unless Vick can roll over on some serious serious gangsters, the Feds have their huge case. A conviction of Vick, arguably the financier of the operation, gets them front page press and the public knowledge that fame and money won't protect you from their justice.
Ex NFLers, or current ones at that, need to keep their mouths shut about this other than they support Vick in his right to be innocent until proven guilty but if guilty he will need to be punished. Unless they have knowledge of the federal case and/or prosecuters that we don't.
Ex NFLers, or current ones at that, need to keep their mouths shut about this other than they support Vick in his right to be innocent until proven guilty but if guilty he will need to be punished. Unless they have knowledge of the federal case and/or prosecuters that we don't.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
I think E could very well be right. Vick might be involved. He might even be a "heavyweight" as was described a month ago. But, I'm a gonna' bet that he knows even bigger fish to fry. Squeeze his nuts, and the feds might get information that casts an even wider net on this whole despicable thing.
I've seen many apologists on this board. Emmitt doesn't sound like any of them.
I've seen many apologists on this board. Emmitt doesn't sound like any of them.
twistd
Footballguy
I think Emmitt is apologizing for Vick. He is saying that Vick is being targeted. The stats are that 95% of federal indictments end in conviction. So there is a chance that Vick is innocent of the charges, but it is a relatively small chance. They don't bring federal charges unless they have a pretty solid case. Vick and other players hang out with scumbags, well bad things happen, sorry. Tank Johnson goes out when he's been drinking, at 3 in the morning. So he didn't break the law, he still made a bad decision. They have to be aware that the they are responsible for the decisions they make, and the friends they hang with.I heard Eddie Kennison on the Sirius and he was saying the media is too hard on Vick. He was saying that if the media isn't careful the players won't cooperate with the media. The players better realize that we, the fans, pay their salaries. If the fans get disgusted with Vick, and won't go to Falcon games, it doesn't matter if he is innocent. Perhaps it would be unfair, but that is the way it is. If the public perception of the NFL becomes that they are viewed as a bunch of thugs and criminals, the league will struggle. The NBA had problems like that in the past. And honestly they seem to be struggling somewhat now too. Players have to recognize that the fans are responsible for their ability to get paid huge sums of money to play football. If they start losing the goodwill of the fans those huge salaries go away.
Loomba
Footballguy
This is intriguing, I agree. One would think that a starting NFL quarterback, particularly with Vick's (presumably) busy schedule of appearances, shooting commercials, interviews, practice, playing, etc., etc., just wouldn't have the time to dedicate to this activity to be the biggest fish in the pond. He's probably a pretty big player, but there must be a lot of others out there. After all, who would Vick's dogs fight? Presumably not dogs from his own operation, but dogs from other owners' kennels. Vick might just be the first of several big dominoes to fall.
poopdawg
Footballguy
Agreed. Emmitt is not apologizing in any way, shape, or form. He knows that this is wrong. As much as I hate the Cowboys, kudos to Smith for making this statement. He does not say they are targeting Vick, which they are not. Whether it be because he is a status figure or because he is black, he is being charged because he is wrong and he got caught. I hate to see this turn into a race issue. When a majority of the people involved in dogfighting are minority and when a minority gets caught, its not racism, its called the law of probablility........
-OZ-
Footballguy
In a sense, he's right. They're "after" the ringleader, which may or may not be Vick, and they're after the whole industry. Vick will take the fall publicly, regardless if he is the key to the "club".But, Emmit has to understand, anything said publicly siding with Vick or trying to make him look "persecuted" is not going to be taken well.
ebcpastor2004
Footballguy
I like Emmitt and all, but here's what bugs me-
Where's the line that says "from a moral & ethical standpoint, you just don't kill dogs!"
-OZ-
Footballguy
Look at the audience he's preaching to. (and no, I don't mean racial)I like Emmitt and all, but here's what bugs me-
Where's the line that says "from a moral & ethical standpoint, you just don't kill dogs!"
joffer
Footballguy
i think he's referring more to the "cutting the ties" point he's mainly trying to make, without commenting on whether he thinks Vick is guilty or not.I like Emmitt and all, but here's what bugs me-
Where's the line that says "from a moral & ethical standpoint, you just don't kill dogs!"
BigRed
Footballguy
Apologists for the apologists who need things spelled out - also not exactly surprising -I do agree with "do people even read these things" though - eg
Yeah.....so he's been to maybe 20 dogfights on his own property - why go after him? If you still don't get it, I'd say your IQ is somewhere between Forrest Gump and cole slaw.
More apologist BS, just mildly subtler (FYI for those leaning to the cole slaw side) - ie it's his fault only because he hasn't "broken ties with his past." ie not placing the blame on Vick himself, but his "bad influence" buddies. Yeah - if not for them, Vick would be a model citizen.
Speaks volumes, doesn't it? Smith doesn't even consider that. Who cares about the dogs? It's just "bad business." :XMaybe whoever said it was right: this IS "cultural."
Apologists for the apologists who need things spelled out - also not exactly surprising -
I do agree with "do people even read these things" though - eg
Yeah.....so he's been to maybe 20 dogfights on his own property - why go after him? If you still don't get it, I'd say your IQ is somewhere between Forrest Gump and cole slaw.
More apologist BS, just mildly subtler (FYI for those leaning to the cole slaw side) - ie it's his fault only because he hasn't "broken ties with his past." ie not placing the blame on Vick himself, but his "bad influence" buddies. Yeah - if not for them, Vick would be a model citizen.
Speaks volumes, doesn't it? Smith doesn't even consider that. Who cares about the dogs? It's just "bad business." :X Maybe whoever said it was right: this IS "cultural."
Man, the title of the article is "Smith believes investigators are trying to turn Vick on others." Do you really think that the writer cares about everything Smith said? Once you read the title, that should tell you that you might want to make up your own mind on things instead of believing what the writer wants you to believe.How do you know that Smith didn't say your bolded point? If he did, do you think it would be to the writer's interest to put it in there?
Smith had 4 quotes. Two of them dealt with Smith basically pointing out that he thinks that Vick wasn't the ring leader and that the Feds are squeezing him to get to the ring leader. Whether or not he is right, who knows? Anyone in this thread that says they do is full of crap.
The second 2 quotes to me were Smith basically saying that NFLers need to cut loose some friends that will involve them in things like this. Look at Pacman and Chris Henry. They are giving away millions of dollars because they chose to continue to hang out in the wrong areas with the wrong people. NOT ONCE in either of these 2 quotes did Emmitt mention dog fighting, so how do you know for sure that he wasn't generalizing at that point and not talking about Vick?
Until you line up the entire transcript of Emmitt's HOF interviews, you are reading too much into quotes that a writer put together for you.
i think he's referring more to the "cutting the ties" point he's mainly trying to make, without commenting on whether he thinks Vick is guilty or not.I like Emmitt and all, but here's what bugs me-
Where's the line that says "from a moral & ethical standpoint, you just don't kill dogs!"
Man, Vick has made people forget about all of the other incidents. Pacman and Chris Henry have to be loving life right now and sending thank you cards to Vick.stanmarino13
Footballguy
If they want to talk to a HOF player that might have some perspective on what Vick is goin through, wouldnt they be better off talking to Micheal Irvin then squeeky clean Emmitt Smith??
rabidfireweasel
Footballguy
Because Emmitt seems to be ignoring the following allegations when he says "Maybe Michael went to some dog fights and bet some money:Vick bought a property to house dogfights.Vick made alterations to better hold dogfights at the property be bought.Vick and his group "Bad NEws Kennelz" had car axles put into the ground."Bad NEws Kennelz" had a website that sold pit bulls.The group executed dogs that failed as fighting dogs in dramatic and cruel ways.Vick was just caught up with the wrong fellas. Vick is way past the point of just being interested in seeing some dog fights. He, and the crew that he bankrolled, have been significant players in this, if the allegations are true.
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Encyclopedia Brown
Footballguy
Did you actually read this article?I think most 3rd graders would have understood what he meant.
What if Emmitt wasn't prepared to answer questions on Vick? Vick wasn't inducted to the college hall of fame on Saturday, was he? Look at what he said exactly:
That sure doesn't sound like he knows what Vick actually did.Again, I think he tried to answer it how he thought and then tried to turn it into a general FYI for younger players. I agree that the whole Feds angle thing was something he should have been smart enough to not even say, but to imply that he said that Vick did nothing or that this was a conspiracy against Vick or that dog fighting is cool is a stretch to me. The only thing he may have said that was incorrect, and he may not have really known better, was the extent that Vick was involved. I will admit that I don't know that much and this is the first I have heard of Bad NEws Kennelz, but I guess that just means that my PR guy got me as prepared as Emmitt's.
LHUCKS
Footballguy
I think Emmit is stating he doesn't believe the more serious allegations are accurate.
I just read the indictment just because I really hadn't read it yet. I still think Emmitt was trying to answer questions, but as EBF said, he obviously isn't smart and should have just zipped it.Also, if what the indictment says is true, and I have a feeling a lot of time was taken to make sure it was, then Vick is a POS.
BigTex
Don't mess with Texas
Did you actually read this article?I think most 3rd graders would have understood what he meant.
P.S. Emmitt should just shut his mouth but we all can say what the hell we want about Vick or otherwise.
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fatness
Footballguy
This is code for "I want to make this a racial issue."
sholditch
Footballguy
thus far, every comment I have heard from a player, former or current, about this issue, the main vibe I get is that they don't think it's a big deal and that Mike Vick is being persecuted by the media. Not one of them has shown any sort of real disgust at the accused crimes, and most have seem like they tacitly support Vick and the practice of dogfighting. Sure, they make sure to cover their asses and make sure to issue some watered-down condemnation of it, but it's fairly obvious that the reaction inside the NFL has been a collective yawn. They need to realize that if this keeps up the media won't be their problem. Congress will.ETA: I've always hated Emmitt Smith and this little speech is another good reason in my book. That punk isn't fit to hold Payton's jock.
I think it shows Emmitt has a fundamental misunderstanding of what's going on. Who is bigger than Vick in this case? Vick owned the property, funded the training and bet on the fights. I don't see how it can get any bigger than that. Of course there are other people who own property, fund training and bet. But it's not like this is the drug trade and the animals are being brought in from Columbia by the Pablo Escobar of the dog fighting world. These owners are buying their dogs from legitimate dog breeders and training them to be fighters.
bcr8f
Footballguy
I do too. I don't see Vick in charge of executing dogs. To me he was a better and financier. He is still responsible for what his co-conspirators did but they may be after him to rat on the other guys.He could get partial immunity or a plea when the Grand Jury meets.
you should read the indictment.Vick did kill dogs - brutally.and just days before he lied to Goodell's face about having zero involvement in dog fighting.
even though the dog killing is the more emotional issue -the more critical issue for the NFL is the gambling link- Once stupid players gamble (on whatever) and get in over their head - organized crime enters the picture with the ability to motivate those gamblers to throw games and shave points.
bcr8f
Footballguy
I did read the indictment but those accusing were also accused felons. Who do you believe? I think Vick should stay out of the league until this is sorted out.
1huskerfan
Footballguy
An apologist doesn't apologize. An apologist defends or attempts to justify. Claiming they are using Vick to go after a bigger fish does neither.
sholditch
Footballguy
Honestly, If I were scoring this thing, the NFL as a whole, including Goodell, and every player or past player that has spoken on this issue, they would be deep into negative points. It's getting to the point that I am starting to get pissed at the league as a whole. If Goodell is going to allow Vick to continue to represent the league while this goes on, he at least needs to muzzle every player and former player to keep them from saying more stupid stuff that makes it seem like the league doesn't care. Frankly, even though I would like to believe that the majority of NFL players don't at least support if not engage in dogfighting, but they're coming off the opposite way. I'm not saying that's the truth, but that's the perception both Goodell and the many representatives of the league are putting out there. They are digging themselves really, really deep right now, almost to the point where a year-long suspension of Vick won't be able to undo the damage, which is that the NFL and its players really don't think this is a big deal. The league is kidding itself if it thinks it can just handle this however it sees fit and not worry about what the public thinks. Just ask Major League Baseball. If Goodell doesn't want himself and numerous other players testifying in front of Congress, he needs to tell everyone to shut the hell up about this and do something right now.
Aaronstory
Footballguy
Follow the money. Did those 'accused felons' own the property or purchase the dogs? No? Hmmm...who did I wonder...bcr8f said:
GreenNGold
Footballguy
My guess is that people like Emmit and Portis also attend dog fights. That is why they don't think it is a big deal and stick up for Vick.
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bcr8f
Footballguy
I have. Did owning the property or buying animals mean he killed dogs himself? Come on man. People have been falsely accused before to save their asses. He is responsible for what others do in a conspiracy but until I see that he actually did these things himself I'll have a hard tme believing it. I'm waiting to see the proof. You can convict him on allegations if you want but I'm waiting for proof.
Phurfur
Footballguy
Vick can't hold Emmitt's jock! Vick will never be half the football name Emmitt is.
Aaronstory
Footballguy
So in your estimation, the documents that prove he owned the land where this was happening are...forgeries? Made to....frame him?
sholditch
Footballguy
just because you're waiting for proof doesn't mean you have to shut off common sense. Here's what we knew prior to the Indictment
1. Mike Vick owns a kennel in Georgia that breeds APTs
2. Mike Vick owns property in Virginia that just so happens to house a huge dog-fighting ring
3. Mike Vick knows the person who resides on his property very well
4. Mike Vick has been rumored to be a huge player in dogfighting by people previously associated with the crime
and now we know
5. Mike Vick has done enough to make the Feds pretty sure they can convict him on all counts listed in the indictment
add those up.
1. Mike Vick owns a kennel in Georgia that breeds APTs
2. Mike Vick owns property in Virginia that just so happens to house a huge dog-fighting ring
3. Mike Vick knows the person who resides on his property very well
4. Mike Vick has been rumored to be a huge player in dogfighting by people previously associated with the crime
and now we know
5. Mike Vick has done enough to make the Feds pretty sure they can convict him on all counts listed in the indictment
add those up.
hey -OJ didn't do it either.The "proof" said so./
If the feds had handled the investigation and prosecution (I know, they never would) he would be getting 3 hots and a cot right now.
Polyethylene Bag
Footballguy
I think Vick is the big fish.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
So, you support letting Donaghy continue to ref NBA games until the proof is fleshed out in a court of law, right?
Apples and oranges. Vick's alleged wrongdoing has nothing to do with the game itself.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
Oh. I thought we were talking about the concept of due process. So, we can throw out due process in Donaghy's case, but not Vick's because one accusation has to do with the game, but the other doesn't?Interesting.
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Do people actually read? Seriously. Emmitt is only saying there are bigger people involved. If Vick can throw out a $50000 bet obviously some other big money is involved to take the bet. Vick is not the only dogfighter in this country. He didn't create the "sport", he is a participant much like many others are. Those are the people we, the public, have never heard of before. Vick being tied to some of these people is when the media runs. Emmitt says when people become high profile they have to make a consertive effort to change in who they associate with in order to be successful and reach their potential. The thug you used to hang with has got to go. Those folks will drag you down. I have seen people say "obviously Emmitt is involved" to "Emmitt obviously has dogs." etc. A microphone was place in front of the most successful rb in NFL history and was asked about the current high profile NFL case. How was the man going to respond? Heck, he's right.
