Vick: Em Smith leading the charge for the apologists (1 Viewer)

[Tillmanisahero]

Honestly, I am getting to the point where aside from the Bears, I might have to cut all support I give to the league, including watching their channel and participating in fantasy leagues.

Go ahead jump. This story has taken overreaction, presumption and melodrama to new levels.

Now THERE's the post of the year.

There's nothing melodramatic about being sickend and angry as hell about the practice of abusing animals for fun.

As far as I've been able to tell he trained the dogs to fight, which pitbulls have been breed to do for years. I don't consider that abuse and neither did Poindexter who said he saw no signs of dog abuse on Vick's property but he did see healthy dogs. As far as killing the dogs as far as I can tell he was only around once when a dog was killed and he only gave the ok after he was apprised of the dogs condition which may have simply been a case of putting the dogs out of their misery. Either way, I don't see that he did it just for fun as you and so many others have said. He did raise and breed dogs to fight which I can see how most of the population would view as animal cruelty and if you want say that's the abuse he did for fun than I'll grant you that but I don't think Vick took enjoyment out of personally hurting dogs, only in breeding them to fight. This may not make him an award winning citizen but to me it's lot less worse than someone who brutalizes dogs just for the hell of it.Put me in the camp that thinks this story is blown out of proportion. Roughly $3 million dogs are put to sleep in this country each year but now we should all be in an uproar over a few pit bulls? Give me a break. I've also yet hear a justifiable reason why it's ok to kill some animals for sport but not others?

I understand some people will take what I just said and paint me as a person with no compassion. I'm just the opposite, I just have compassion for humans. I don't think people should go to jail for a few years over this nor do I think Vick should be kicked out of the league.

Well, I basically strongly disagree with everything you wrote in this post. If you don't see what's wrong with it there's nothing I can do for you. Must be a sad life. But I have to ask you a few questions:1. How is being involved with dogfighting not taking pleasure out of hurting dogs? What do you think happens at a dogfight?

2. (i'll start taking these in order) Human beings were enslaved for years. Do you oppose the abolition of slavery? Children in third-world countries have been used as slave laborers for years. Would you oppose ending this practice also based on its longevity?

3. Have you seen the pictures? Do those look like healthy dogs to you? And how does the fact that Poindexter was giving Vick and the rest of the crew ample home-cooking contradict any of the federal findings? What about the numerous carcasses that were found on the property? All natural deaths I suppose?

4. Only around for one? Where do you get this, from the indictment, which says explicitly dogs and not "dog." Also, if there only concern was humanely ending a dog's life, why such harsh and bizarre methods of execution? Also, how do you explain how the dogs got into such miserable conditions?

Great post!People that don't understand the evil of Dogfighting are one of two things ignorant or devoid of empathy. Nearly everything that goes into Dog Fighting (especially the modern day versions) is about abuse and cruelty. Everything that is said to support Dog Fighting or Down play how bad it is , is just BS propaganda. People are either trying to justify their own twisted blood lust or trying to stick up for a puke bag athlete who they like.

I have personally responded to Dog Fighting raids while working as a volunteer with my local Humane society. I have actually seen dogs torn apart lying in their own blood and trying to hold their head up. These same dogs will attempt to wag their tails with their very last ounce of energy as you try to help them. These dogs are abused from puppy bed to their final fight, the people who engage in this are heartless bastards.

There have been studies that show that children exposed (and many are) to this "trade" suffer the same psychological problems as kids exposed to domestic abuse. There are also countless other crimes that take place at these events that include everything from Drugs, guns, to even human slavery as men trade underage prostitutes.

Make no mistake this "entertainment" is not just about dogs, it is about cruel and bad people expressing only one aspect of their sociopathic mentality. If Vick (AKA Ron Mexico) is involved in this behavior, I would guarantee you that he is involved in other and perhaps much worse (if that is possible).

Portis, Horn, and E. Smith as I said earlier are either extremely ignorant or evil themselves.

Before anyone else tries to down play how bad dog fighting is please view this Dog Fighting

It is graphic and disturbing but its reality....not like all the BS Vick apologists

 

[sholditch]

Honestly, I am getting to the point where aside from the Bears, I might have to cut all support I give to the league, including watching their channel and participating in fantasy leagues.

Go ahead jump. This story has taken overreaction, presumption and melodrama to new levels.

Now THERE's the post of the year.

There's nothing melodramatic about being sickend and angry as hell about the practice of abusing animals for fun.

As far as I've been able to tell he trained the dogs to fight, which pitbulls have been breed to do for years. I don't consider that abuse and neither did Poindexter who said he saw no signs of dog abuse on Vick's property but he did see healthy dogs. As far as killing the dogs as far as I can tell he was only around once when a dog was killed and he only gave the ok after he was apprised of the dogs condition which may have simply been a case of putting the dogs out of their misery. Either way, I don't see that he did it just for fun as you and so many others have said. He did raise and breed dogs to fight which I can see how most of the population would view as animal cruelty and if you want say that's the abuse he did for fun than I'll grant you that but I don't think Vick took enjoyment out of personally hurting dogs, only in breeding them to fight. This may not make him an award winning citizen but to me it's lot less worse than someone who brutalizes dogs just for the hell of it.Put me in the camp that thinks this story is blown out of proportion. Roughly $3 million dogs are put to sleep in this country each year but now we should all be in an uproar over a few pit bulls? Give me a break. I've also yet hear a justifiable reason why it's ok to kill some animals for sport but not others?

I understand some people will take what I just said and paint me as a person with no compassion. I'm just the opposite, I just have compassion for humans. I don't think people should go to jail for a few years over this nor do I think Vick should be kicked out of the league.

Well, I basically strongly disagree with everything you wrote in this post. If you don't see what's wrong with it there's nothing I can do for you. Must be a sad life. But I have to ask you a few questions:1. How is being involved with dogfighting not taking pleasure out of hurting dogs? What do you think happens at a dogfight?

2. (i'll start taking these in order) Human beings were enslaved for years. Do you oppose the abolition of slavery? Children in third-world countries have been used as slave laborers for years. Would you oppose ending this practice also based on its longevity?

3. Have you seen the pictures? Do those look like healthy dogs to you? And how does the fact that Poindexter was giving Vick and the rest of the crew ample home-cooking contradict any of the federal findings? What about the numerous carcasses that were found on the property? All natural deaths I suppose?

4. Only around for one? Where do you get this, from the indictment, which says explicitly dogs and not "dog." Also, if there only concern was humanely ending a dog's life, why such harsh and bizarre methods of execution? Also, how do you explain how the dogs got into such miserable conditions?

I'll go in order.1. I enjoy boxing, not watching boxers get hurt but I understand it happens. Do you understand the difference?

2. I have no idea what you are talking about so I can't respond but dogs are not humans.

3. If my dog died I'd bury him in my backyard. I would assume when you have 60+ dogs in your care their will be death from time to time and I'd expect they'd bury them in the back yard. Again, these are dogs not humans....Why would Poindexter give Vick home cooking? What's to say the federal findings were not flawed?

4. From what I read in the indictment Vick was only present when one dog was killed which he gave the okay for after he was apprised of the dogs condition.

I hate to break this to you but dogs are not humans.

Wow, this is so freaking ignorant. 1. Boxers choose to fight and are paid to do so. How many boxing matches end in one of the boxers dying. From what I understand, that percentage is very high in dogfights. Nice yry but a two-year old could rip this asburd analogy apart. A correct analogy would be fighters who are enslaved at birth and trained every second of their lives to be killers. The movie "Unleashed" with Jet Li would be an appropriate analogy. Boxing matches are so off-base that I don't whether to laugh at you or feel sorry for you.

2. I was responding to your nonsensical posting that since dogfighting has gone on so long that somehow makes it ok, providing analogies that show the fallacy in your "logic"

3. You asserted that since Poindexter found no evidence that dogs had been mistreated (a complete and total falsehood BTW) that meant no abuse had taken place. Again, just pointing a totall illogical and nonsensical argument made by you.

4. You think one dog can be killed four different ways, by 1. hanging, 2. gunshot, 3. electrocution, 4. beating to death? Do you really beleive the crap you write or are you just completely reaching for any way to play down what the indictment accuses them of?

and to the last comment, thanks for the pointer. This wouldn't be why we have all sorts of laws specific to ANIMAL CRUELTY would it?

Look, I'm sorry you see this as no big deal, I really am. But most sane people who aren't driven by bloodlust see this as a horrible and despicable practice which deserves the sentences it carries, if not stiffer ones. These are laws agreed upon by American society and put in place by both our federal and state elected officials. We frown on this type of thing in America.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Honestly, I am getting to the point where aside from the Bears, I might have to cut all support I give to the league, including watching their channel and participating in fantasy leagues.

Go ahead jump. This story has taken overreaction, presumption and melodrama to new levels.

Now THERE's the post of the year.

There's nothing melodramatic about being sickend and angry as hell about the practice of abusing animals for fun.

As far as I've been able to tell he trained the dogs to fight, which pitbulls have been breed to do for years. I don't consider that abuse and neither did Poindexter who said he saw no signs of dog abuse on Vick's property but he did see healthy dogs. As far as killing the dogs as far as I can tell he was only around once when a dog was killed and he only gave the ok after he was apprised of the dogs condition which may have simply been a case of putting the dogs out of their misery. Either way, I don't see that he did it just for fun as you and so many others have said. He did raise and breed dogs to fight which I can see how most of the population would view as animal cruelty and if you want say that's the abuse he did for fun than I'll grant you that but I don't think Vick took enjoyment out of personally hurting dogs, only in breeding them to fight. This may not make him an award winning citizen but to me it's lot less worse than someone who brutalizes dogs just for the hell of it.Put me in the camp that thinks this story is blown out of proportion. Roughly $3 million dogs are put to sleep in this country each year but now we should all be in an uproar over a few pit bulls? Give me a break. I've also yet hear a justifiable reason why it's ok to kill some animals for sport but not others?

I understand some people will take what I just said and paint me as a person with no compassion. I'm just the opposite, I just have compassion for humans. I don't think people should go to jail for a few years over this nor do I think Vick should be kicked out of the league.

Well, I basically strongly disagree with everything you wrote in this post. If you don't see what's wrong with it there's nothing I can do for you. Must be a sad life. But I have to ask you a few questions:1. How is being involved with dogfighting not taking pleasure out of hurting dogs? What do you think happens at a dogfight?

2. (i'll start taking these in order) Human beings were enslaved for years. Do you oppose the abolition of slavery? Children in third-world countries have been used as slave laborers for years. Would you oppose ending this practice also based on its longevity?

3. Have you seen the pictures? Do those look like healthy dogs to you? And how does the fact that Poindexter was giving Vick and the rest of the crew ample home-cooking contradict any of the federal findings? What about the numerous carcasses that were found on the property? All natural deaths I suppose?

4. Only around for one? Where do you get this, from the indictment, which says explicitly dogs and not "dog." Also, if there only concern was humanely ending a dog's life, why such harsh and bizarre methods of execution? Also, how do you explain how the dogs got into such miserable conditions?

I'll go in order.1. I enjoy boxing, not watching boxers get hurt but I understand it happens. Do you understand the difference?

2. I have no idea what you are talking about so I can't respond but dogs are not humans.

3. If my dog died I'd bury him in my backyard. I would assume when you have 60+ dogs in your care their will be death from time to time and I'd expect they'd bury them in the back yard. Again, these are dogs not humans....Why would Poindexter give Vick home cooking? What's to say the federal findings were not flawed?

4. From what I read in the indictment Vick was only present when one dog was killed which he gave the okay for after he was apprised of the dogs condition.

I hate to break this to you but dogs are not humans.

Is this really M.Vick posting here?????You sir(and i use that term very sarcastically)are no better than those heartless jackasses we are talking about.

Have you ever loved a dog or had a dog that loved you???? I doubt it...if you did you would see how stupid and irresponsible you sound.

It`s because of people like yourself that dog fighting and careless attitudes towards animals(pets)exist.

 

[cobalt_27]

Honestly, I am getting to the point where aside from the Bears, I might have to cut all support I give to the league, including watching their channel and participating in fantasy leagues.

Go ahead jump. This story has taken overreaction, presumption and melodrama to new levels.

Now THERE's the post of the year.

There's nothing melodramatic about being sickend and angry as hell about the practice of abusing animals for fun.

As far as I've been able to tell he trained the dogs to fight, which pitbulls have been breed to do for years. I don't consider that abuse and neither did Poindexter who said he saw no signs of dog abuse on Vick's property but he did see healthy dogs. As far as killing the dogs as far as I can tell he was only around once when a dog was killed and he only gave the ok after he was apprised of the dogs condition which may have simply been a case of putting the dogs out of their misery. Either way, I don't see that he did it just for fun as you and so many others have said. He did raise and breed dogs to fight which I can see how most of the population would view as animal cruelty and if you want say that's the abuse he did for fun than I'll grant you that but I don't think Vick took enjoyment out of personally hurting dogs, only in breeding them to fight. This may not make him an award winning citizen but to me it's lot less worse than someone who brutalizes dogs just for the hell of it.Put me in the camp that thinks this story is blown out of proportion. Roughly $3 million dogs are put to sleep in this country each year but now we should all be in an uproar over a few pit bulls? Give me a break. I've also yet hear a justifiable reason why it's ok to kill some animals for sport but not others?

I understand some people will take what I just said and paint me as a person with no compassion. I'm just the opposite, I just have compassion for humans. I don't think people should go to jail for a few years over this nor do I think Vick should be kicked out of the league.

Well, I basically strongly disagree with everything you wrote in this post. If you don't see what's wrong with it there's nothing I can do for you. Must be a sad life. But I have to ask you a few questions:1. How is being involved with dogfighting not taking pleasure out of hurting dogs? What do you think happens at a dogfight?

2. (i'll start taking these in order) Human beings were enslaved for years. Do you oppose the abolition of slavery? Children in third-world countries have been used as slave laborers for years. Would you oppose ending this practice also based on its longevity?

3. Have you seen the pictures? Do those look like healthy dogs to you? And how does the fact that Poindexter was giving Vick and the rest of the crew ample home-cooking contradict any of the federal findings? What about the numerous carcasses that were found on the property? All natural deaths I suppose?

4. Only around for one? Where do you get this, from the indictment, which says explicitly dogs and not "dog." Also, if there only concern was humanely ending a dog's life, why such harsh and bizarre methods of execution? Also, how do you explain how the dogs got into such miserable conditions?

I'll go in order.1. I enjoy boxing, not watching boxers get hurt but I understand it happens. Do you understand the difference?

2. I have no idea what you are talking about so I can't respond but dogs are not humans.

3. If my dog died I'd bury him in my backyard. I would assume when you have 60+ dogs in your care their will be death from time to time and I'd expect they'd bury them in the back yard. Again, these are dogs not humans....Why would Poindexter give Vick home cooking? What's to say the federal findings were not flawed?

4. From what I read in the indictment Vick was only present when one dog was killed which he gave the okay for after he was apprised of the dogs condition.

I hate to break this to you but dogs are not humans.

It never ceases to amaze me how stupid people are. Posts like this make it difficult to be a FBG member, knowing there are others in this community who think like this (using the verb "think" liberally here).

 

[bcr8f]

We don't know many facts yet. Since the indictment was for conspiacy he didn't have to be present to be a conspirator. Goodell is taking this one step at a time waiting for evidence to come out. That's a good position to take. Trials take time, but I have heard this court is quick and no nonsense.

 

[menobrown]

Is this really M.Vick posting here?????You sir(and i use that term very sarcastically)are no better than those heartless jackasses we are talking about.Have you ever loved a dog or had a dog that loved you???? I doubt it...if you did you would see how stupid and irresponsible you sound.It`s because of people like yourself that dog fighting and careless attitudes towards animals(pets)exist.

You are so simple. Yes I've owned a dog but I'd never own a pit bull. BTW you can't own a pit bull in over 5 countries, more than 20 US city's including Miami and you know why. Because these dogs were breed for the purpose of fighting other dogs, it's in their DNA. That's why they account for more attacks on humans and human fatalities than any other animal. So sorry if I'm not weeping for a few pit bulls and if that makes me wrong of a sicko for valuing human life over a pit bull than I'm guilty.As for careless attitudes towards pets, give me a break. Is it a crime for the 750,000 people each year who turn in their dogs who are put down? Got to love that attitude towards one's pet. All of you who are so turned off by Vicks vile behavior would one you please answer the question I keep asking? Ignore the legal aspect and only view it from the prism of what is ethical could you please enlighten me as to why it is considered not animal cruelty for someone to shoot a deer, stuff his head, and mount him on a wall so he can brag to his friends? How is this ok and why are these people not held in the same vile contempt as Vick? Is it because the deer won't wag it's tail when it see's you? How selfish.I've said before and I'll say again Vick should be punished by both the NFL and law enforcement and I've never said otherwise. But I don't think he should lose his season or career and I don't he should spend years in jail but I do to this public outcry for blood that's what's likely to happen.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Is this really M.Vick posting here?????You sir(and i use that term very sarcastically)are no better than those heartless jackasses we are talking about.Have you ever loved a dog or had a dog that loved you???? I doubt it...if you did you would see how stupid and irresponsible you sound.It`s because of people like yourself that dog fighting and careless attitudes towards animals(pets)exist.

You are so simple. Yes I've owned a dog but I'd never own a pit bull. BTW you can't own a pit bull in over 5 countries, more than 20 US city's including Miami and you know why. Because these dogs were breed for the purpose of fighting other dogs, it's in their DNA. That's why they account for more attacks on humans and human fatalities than any other animal. So sorry if I'm not weeping for a few pit bulls and if that makes me wrong of a sicko for valuing human life over a pit bull than I'm guilty.As for careless attitudes towards pets, give me a break. Is it a crime for the 750,000 people each year who turn in their dogs who are put down? Got to love that attitude towards one's pet. All of you who are so turned off by Vicks vile behavior would one you please answer the question I keep asking? Ignore the legal aspect and only view it from the prism of what is ethical could you please enlighten me as to why it is considered not animal cruelty for someone to shoot a deer, stuff his head, and mount him on a wall so he can brag to his friends? How is this ok and why are these people not held in the same vile contempt as Vick? Is it because the deer won't wag it's tail when it see's you? How selfish.I've said before and I'll say again Vick should be punished by both the NFL and law enforcement and I've never said otherwise. But I don't think he should lose his season or career and I don't he should spend years in jail but I do to this public outcry for blood that's what's likely to happen.

If being simple means having a heart then god bless me.I would rather be simple than be ignorant(ahem...).I have put my dog down...out of love(he had cancer)does that make me a killer????People hunt for food as well as sport(i am personally against hunting but thats not relevant right now)and i know that the carcass is used to eat and is`nt just buried or left to rot....hunters go for the quick kill as oppossed to the animals fighting for hours and dying from dehydration or there wounds.Most animals that are hunted would starve to death anyways due to lack of food available(overpopulation).People have made pitbulls into fighting machines .....period.I know so many pitbulls that are the kindest dogs i have ever met....poodles are meaner for christ sakes.

 

[cobalt_27]

Is this really M.Vick posting here?????

You sir(and i use that term very sarcastically)are no better than those heartless jackasses we are talking about.

Have you ever loved a dog or had a dog that loved you???? I doubt it...if you did you would see how stupid and irresponsible you sound.

It`s because of people like yourself that dog fighting and careless attitudes towards animals(pets)exist.

You are so simple. Yes I've owned a dog but I'd never own a pit bull. BTW you can't own a pit bull in over 5 countries, more than 20 US city's including Miami and you know why. Because these dogs were breed for the purpose of fighting other dogs, it's in their DNA. That's why they account for more attacks on humans and human fatalities than any other animal. So sorry if I'm not weeping for a few pit bulls and if that makes me wrong of a sicko for valuing human life over a pit bull than I'm guilty.As for careless attitudes towards pets, give me a break. Is it a crime for the 750,000 people each year who turn in their dogs who are put down? Got to love that attitude towards one's pet.

All of you who are so turned off by Vicks vile behavior would one you please answer the question I keep asking? Ignore the legal aspect and only view it from the prism of what is ethical could you please enlighten me as to why it is considered not animal cruelty for someone to shoot a deer, stuff his head, and mount him on a wall so he can brag to his friends? How is this ok and why are these people not held in the same vile contempt as Vick? Is it because the deer won't wag it's tail when it see's you? How selfish.

I've said before and I'll say again Vick should be punished by both the NFL and law enforcement and I've never said otherwise. But I don't think he should lose his season or career and I don't he should spend years in jail but I do to this public outcry for blood that's what's likely to happen.

In the collections of words that did form a complete thought/sentence, it's unclear who ever said anything about valuing a pit bull's life over a human's life. It's unclear how you, who think so incoherently, have suddenly become a geneticist and can speak to pit bull DNA. What is so difficult for you to understand two simultaneous thoughts that include value to both man and dog? And, how is it that you don't consider maiming, electrocuting, hanging dogs and, otherwise, provoking them to chew each other to shreds just some of the most abhorrent denominator of a low-life scum?These are probably just rhetorical questions, since I don't suspect you'll discover much insight to articulate a cogent answer to any of these thoughts anytime soon.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Is this really M.Vick posting here?????

You sir(and i use that term very sarcastically)are no better than those heartless jackasses we are talking about.

Have you ever loved a dog or had a dog that loved you???? I doubt it...if you did you would see how stupid and irresponsible you sound.

It`s because of people like yourself that dog fighting and careless attitudes towards animals(pets)exist.

You are so simple. Yes I've owned a dog but I'd never own a pit bull. BTW you can't own a pit bull in over 5 countries, more than 20 US city's including Miami and you know why. Because these dogs were breed for the purpose of fighting other dogs, it's in their DNA. That's why they account for more attacks on humans and human fatalities than any other animal. So sorry if I'm not weeping for a few pit bulls and if that makes me wrong of a sicko for valuing human life over a pit bull than I'm guilty.As for careless attitudes towards pets, give me a break. Is it a crime for the 750,000 people each year who turn in their dogs who are put down? Got to love that attitude towards one's pet.

All of you who are so turned off by Vicks vile behavior would one you please answer the question I keep asking? Ignore the legal aspect and only view it from the prism of what is ethical could you please enlighten me as to why it is considered not animal cruelty for someone to shoot a deer, stuff his head, and mount him on a wall so he can brag to his friends? How is this ok and why are these people not held in the same vile contempt as Vick? Is it because the deer won't wag it's tail when it see's you? How selfish.

I've said before and I'll say again Vick should be punished by both the NFL and law enforcement and I've never said otherwise. But I don't think he should lose his season or career and I don't he should spend years in jail but I do to this public outcry for blood that's what's likely to happen.

Time for lesson Menobrown..............http://groups.msn.com/everythingpitbulls/fighting.msnw

The bulldog, mixed with game hunting terriers, was selectively bred down to a smaller size to increase agility, and for traits needed in a fighting dog such as stamina and fighting ability. Dog aggression increased in the breed during this time for obvious reasons. The most important trait, however, in the fighting dog was gameness. This element was present in the bulldog before it became popular for use as a fighting dog, and the dog fighters carefully continued to select for this trait in their breeding stock. The goal was to refine the ultimate canine gladiator (the bulldog), and for all intents and purposes, the goal was accomplished.

Fighting dogs fight because that is what they were bred to do. The "training" they receive is physical conditioning, aimed at building strength and stamina. The dogs know how to fight, are born knowing how to fight. The truth of the matter is that the desire to scrap with other animals is in the breed's genes, built up through selective breeding for the traits that allowed them to excel at tasks they were routinely used for.

WE(man)did this...we created this breed to fight,it was`nt the dogs choice...get it????

 

[menobrown]

Is this really M.Vick posting here?????

You sir(and i use that term very sarcastically)are no better than those heartless jackasses we are talking about.

Have you ever loved a dog or had a dog that loved you???? I doubt it...if you did you would see how stupid and irresponsible you sound.

It`s because of people like yourself that dog fighting and careless attitudes towards animals(pets)exist.

You are so simple. Yes I've owned a dog but I'd never own a pit bull. BTW you can't own a pit bull in over 5 countries, more than 20 US city's including Miami and you know why. Because these dogs were breed for the purpose of fighting other dogs, it's in their DNA. That's why they account for more attacks on humans and human fatalities than any other animal. So sorry if I'm not weeping for a few pit bulls and if that makes me wrong of a sicko for valuing human life over a pit bull than I'm guilty.As for careless attitudes towards pets, give me a break. Is it a crime for the 750,000 people each year who turn in their dogs who are put down? Got to love that attitude towards one's pet.

All of you who are so turned off by Vicks vile behavior would one you please answer the question I keep asking? Ignore the legal aspect and only view it from the prism of what is ethical could you please enlighten me as to why it is considered not animal cruelty for someone to shoot a deer, stuff his head, and mount him on a wall so he can brag to his friends? How is this ok and why are these people not held in the same vile contempt as Vick? Is it because the deer won't wag it's tail when it see's you? How selfish.

I've said before and I'll say again Vick should be punished by both the NFL and law enforcement and I've never said otherwise. But I don't think he should lose his season or career and I don't he should spend years in jail but I do to this public outcry for blood that's what's likely to happen.

In the collections of words that did form a complete thought/sentence, it's unclear who ever said anything about valuing a pit bull's life over a human's life. It's unclear how you, who think so incoherently, have suddenly become a geneticist and can speak to pit bull DNA. What is so difficult for you to understand two simultaneous thoughts that include value to both man and dog? And, how is it that you don't consider maiming, electrocuting, hanging dogs and, otherwise, provoking them to chew each other to shreds just some of the most abhorrent denominator of a low-life scum?These are probably just rhetorical questions, since I don't suspect you'll discover much insight to articulate a cogent answer to any of these thoughts anytime soon.

My thoughts are pretty coherent but if you want to dumb this down to harping on my typing skills than go ahead but it fails to change anything. And yes Pit Bulls were bred to fight other dogs and if you don't think this has any affect on them today I can't help you or your simple view on life but hey, you come across as real articulate on a fantasy football message board so good for you.

 

[cobalt_27]

Is this really M.Vick posting here?????

You sir(and i use that term very sarcastically)are no better than those heartless jackasses we are talking about.

Have you ever loved a dog or had a dog that loved you???? I doubt it...if you did you would see how stupid and irresponsible you sound.

It`s because of people like yourself that dog fighting and careless attitudes towards animals(pets)exist.

You are so simple. Yes I've owned a dog but I'd never own a pit bull. BTW you can't own a pit bull in over 5 countries, more than 20 US city's including Miami and you know why. Because these dogs were breed for the purpose of fighting other dogs, it's in their DNA. That's why they account for more attacks on humans and human fatalities than any other animal. So sorry if I'm not weeping for a few pit bulls and if that makes me wrong of a sicko for valuing human life over a pit bull than I'm guilty.As for careless attitudes towards pets, give me a break. Is it a crime for the 750,000 people each year who turn in their dogs who are put down? Got to love that attitude towards one's pet.

All of you who are so turned off by Vicks vile behavior would one you please answer the question I keep asking? Ignore the legal aspect and only view it from the prism of what is ethical could you please enlighten me as to why it is considered not animal cruelty for someone to shoot a deer, stuff his head, and mount him on a wall so he can brag to his friends? How is this ok and why are these people not held in the same vile contempt as Vick? Is it because the deer won't wag it's tail when it see's you? How selfish.

I've said before and I'll say again Vick should be punished by both the NFL and law enforcement and I've never said otherwise. But I don't think he should lose his season or career and I don't he should spend years in jail but I do to this public outcry for blood that's what's likely to happen.

In the collections of words that did form a complete thought/sentence, it's unclear who ever said anything about valuing a pit bull's life over a human's life. It's unclear how you, who think so incoherently, have suddenly become a geneticist and can speak to pit bull DNA. What is so difficult for you to understand two simultaneous thoughts that include value to both man and dog? And, how is it that you don't consider maiming, electrocuting, hanging dogs and, otherwise, provoking them to chew each other to shreds just some of the most abhorrent denominator of a low-life scum?These are probably just rhetorical questions, since I don't suspect you'll discover much insight to articulate a cogent answer to any of these thoughts anytime soon.

My thoughts are pretty coherent but if you want to dumb this down to harping on my typing skills than go ahead but it fails to change anything. And yes Pit Bulls were bred to fight other dogs and if you don't think this has any affect on them today I can't help you or your simple view on life but hey, you come across as real articulate on a fantasy football message board so good for you.

So, you agree, then, that we should continue this practice, much in the tradition Vick and friends have been doing?

 

[BustedKnuckles]

This explains my point much better........

To understand the American Pit Bull Terrier, it is imperative to understand the breed’s fighting origins.

The lower class had used blood sports as an outlet for their frustration and aggression towards the monarchy - pit fighting was, in essence, an outcry and an outlet for that aggression. Dogs were bred to be courageous, utterly devoid of pain sensations (they, no doubt, felt pain but were bred and encouraged not to express that pain), tenacious and determined.

A quality that was never bred into them was human aggression. Human “aggressive” (aggression may not be the most appropriate term, it is more likely that these dogs simply had a lower bite threshold) dogs were undesirable as these dogs required extensive handling prior and during their fights - most of theses dogs were also family pets so no human “aggression” was ever tolerated.

Dogs that exhibited human “aggression” were typically killed, meaning that only human friendly lines were perpetuated and desired. It is highly unlikely, however, that these culled dogs were naturally more aggressive towards humans than their bred counterparts but their bite threshold may have been much lower meaning that it did not take much for them to turn around and bite their handler. Animals were bred for an increased bite threshold, as far as humans and only humans were concerned, which decreased the likelihood of humans becoming victims of dog bites.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Many say that Hunting is cruelity towards animals. We don't need it, and we can live without it. Well nothing could be further from the truth. Despite claims from organizations like PETA, I will show you why we need hunting in America and the World.

Reason number 1, there is overpopulation with many animals. Many of these Animals if will not be killed in Hunting season, will die off in the winter. Through illnessess, starvation, etc.

The Fact is that for every animal that gets killed in hunting season, 3 more animal lives will be saved in the winter. So therefore, hunting is good for all animals, and to ban hunting will kill more animals.

Reason number 2, Proven fact is there is a corrolation between game harvest and flu cases. The more game that gets harvest in a certain area, the fewer flu cases that there are in that area. That is a proven fact. Even PETA cannot explain why this is only to say that it is a coincidence(Which is some coincidence). You may ask why hunting controls the flu cases? Simple, since animals are being killed off by diseases, which humans can also contract, which will kill off humans as well. So Hunting is good for humans.

Like the situation with Heggins Pennsylvania, with the pigeon shoots, many area's are overpopulated with pigeons, so people trap them, send them to Heggins, and shoot them. What else are you going to do with them, if you send them to the wild, they will return to another city of town, and same problems. Which was the main reason for the pigeon shootings.

Reason number 3, overpopulated of many animals, has resulted in many bear and Mountian Lion attacks. The number of attacks is on the rise. Which many people were seriously injured or killed by such attacks.

Reason number 4, The number of Farm animals, and pets killed by such wild animals.

Reason number 5, commercial farms, have lost crops, becuase of wild animals. So reality, to ban hunting would only hurt the economy.

Reason number 6, Many casees where animals have actually broken into many people's homes, and did considerable amount of damage.

Reason number 7, the number of Auto accidents, cause by animals. People hitting with the cars or serving to missed, has actaully injured and killed people. Even at 20 mph, can be deadly.

Reason number 8, if you love to eat meat, but don't want anything to do with slaughter houses, then hunting is for you.

Here are 8 reasons why hunting needs to be legal in every state. There is a overpopulation with many animals. (Like Deer in the Mid West states, and Bear in New Jersey and Wisconsin.) Which is bad for both humans and animals.

So why has the Population of many animals increased. There are many reasons, mainly because many Animal rights groups have actaully sucessfully either banned certain types of hunting, or hunt of certian animals. Many states, have problems with overpopulated wild animals. The Hunters have the Most Natural solution to this problem. They can take care of it, if you people would let them.

I am not telling you that you need to hunt, if you don't like to hunt, that OK,it is your right not to hunt, like it is my right to hunt. I am saying do not protest to hunting, or try to have it banned. You are really hurting both man and beast.



Hey menobrown....can you give me 8 reasons why.....forget that , give me just ONE good reason why dog fighting should be legal or accepted.

 

[menobrown]

Is this really M.Vick posting here?????

You sir(and i use that term very sarcastically)are no better than those heartless jackasses we are talking about.

Have you ever loved a dog or had a dog that loved you???? I doubt it...if you did you would see how stupid and irresponsible you sound.

It`s because of people like yourself that dog fighting and careless attitudes towards animals(pets)exist.

You are so simple. Yes I've owned a dog but I'd never own a pit bull. BTW you can't own a pit bull in over 5 countries, more than 20 US city's including Miami and you know why. Because these dogs were breed for the purpose of fighting other dogs, it's in their DNA. That's why they account for more attacks on humans and human fatalities than any other animal. So sorry if I'm not weeping for a few pit bulls and if that makes me wrong of a sicko for valuing human life over a pit bull than I'm guilty.As for careless attitudes towards pets, give me a break. Is it a crime for the 750,000 people each year who turn in their dogs who are put down? Got to love that attitude towards one's pet.

All of you who are so turned off by Vicks vile behavior would one you please answer the question I keep asking? Ignore the legal aspect and only view it from the prism of what is ethical could you please enlighten me as to why it is considered not animal cruelty for someone to shoot a deer, stuff his head, and mount him on a wall so he can brag to his friends? How is this ok and why are these people not held in the same vile contempt as Vick? Is it because the deer won't wag it's tail when it see's you? How selfish.

I've said before and I'll say again Vick should be punished by both the NFL and law enforcement and I've never said otherwise. But I don't think he should lose his season or career and I don't he should spend years in jail but I do to this public outcry for blood that's what's likely to happen.

In the collections of words that did form a complete thought/sentence, it's unclear who ever said anything about valuing a pit bull's life over a human's life. It's unclear how you, who think so incoherently, have suddenly become a geneticist and can speak to pit bull DNA. What is so difficult for you to understand two simultaneous thoughts that include value to both man and dog? And, how is it that you don't consider maiming, electrocuting, hanging dogs and, otherwise, provoking them to chew each other to shreds just some of the most abhorrent denominator of a low-life scum?These are probably just rhetorical questions, since I don't suspect you'll discover much insight to articulate a cogent answer to any of these thoughts anytime soon.

My thoughts are pretty coherent but if you want to dumb this down to harping on my typing skills than go ahead but it fails to change anything. And yes Pit Bulls were bred to fight other dogs and if you don't think this has any affect on them today I can't help you or your simple view on life but hey, you come across as real articulate on a fantasy football message board so good for you.

So, you agree, then, that we should continue this practice, much in the tradition Vick and friends have been doing?

What practice, allowing pit bulls to fight one another? No but I guess you missed the part were I said he should be punished.

 

[cobalt_27]

Is this really M.Vick posting here?????

You sir(and i use that term very sarcastically)are no better than those heartless jackasses we are talking about.

Have you ever loved a dog or had a dog that loved you???? I doubt it...if you did you would see how stupid and irresponsible you sound.

It`s because of people like yourself that dog fighting and careless attitudes towards animals(pets)exist.

You are so simple. Yes I've owned a dog but I'd never own a pit bull. BTW you can't own a pit bull in over 5 countries, more than 20 US city's including Miami and you know why. Because these dogs were breed for the purpose of fighting other dogs, it's in their DNA. That's why they account for more attacks on humans and human fatalities than any other animal. So sorry if I'm not weeping for a few pit bulls and if that makes me wrong of a sicko for valuing human life over a pit bull than I'm guilty.As for careless attitudes towards pets, give me a break. Is it a crime for the 750,000 people each year who turn in their dogs who are put down? Got to love that attitude towards one's pet.

All of you who are so turned off by Vicks vile behavior would one you please answer the question I keep asking? Ignore the legal aspect and only view it from the prism of what is ethical could you please enlighten me as to why it is considered not animal cruelty for someone to shoot a deer, stuff his head, and mount him on a wall so he can brag to his friends? How is this ok and why are these people not held in the same vile contempt as Vick? Is it because the deer won't wag it's tail when it see's you? How selfish.

I've said before and I'll say again Vick should be punished by both the NFL and law enforcement and I've never said otherwise. But I don't think he should lose his season or career and I don't he should spend years in jail but I do to this public outcry for blood that's what's likely to happen.

In the collections of words that did form a complete thought/sentence, it's unclear who ever said anything about valuing a pit bull's life over a human's life. It's unclear how you, who think so incoherently, have suddenly become a geneticist and can speak to pit bull DNA. What is so difficult for you to understand two simultaneous thoughts that include value to both man and dog? And, how is it that you don't consider maiming, electrocuting, hanging dogs and, otherwise, provoking them to chew each other to shreds just some of the most abhorrent denominator of a low-life scum?These are probably just rhetorical questions, since I don't suspect you'll discover much insight to articulate a cogent answer to any of these thoughts anytime soon.

My thoughts are pretty coherent but if you want to dumb this down to harping on my typing skills than go ahead but it fails to change anything. And yes Pit Bulls were bred to fight other dogs and if you don't think this has any affect on them today I can't help you or your simple view on life but hey, you come across as real articulate on a fantasy football message board so good for you.

So, you agree, then, that we should continue this practice, much in the tradition Vick and friends have been doing?

What practice, allowing pit bulls to fight one another? No but I guess you missed the part were I said he should be punished.

You compared this practice to those who humanely put down their dogs because they're suffering from terminal illnesses or are, otherwise, suffering. What are your views on punishment for these people who engage in this despicable practice? If you do not support punishment, why did you bring this up, in the first place?TIA.

 

[Guzalot]

Don't feed the troll.

 

[menobrown]

Is this really M.Vick posting here?????

You sir(and i use that term very sarcastically)are no better than those heartless jackasses we are talking about.

Have you ever loved a dog or had a dog that loved you???? I doubt it...if you did you would see how stupid and irresponsible you sound.

It`s because of people like yourself that dog fighting and careless attitudes towards animals(pets)exist.

You are so simple. Yes I've owned a dog but I'd never own a pit bull. BTW you can't own a pit bull in over 5 countries, more than 20 US city's including Miami and you know why. Because these dogs were breed for the purpose of fighting other dogs, it's in their DNA. That's why they account for more attacks on humans and human fatalities than any other animal. So sorry if I'm not weeping for a few pit bulls and if that makes me wrong of a sicko for valuing human life over a pit bull than I'm guilty.As for careless attitudes towards pets, give me a break. Is it a crime for the 750,000 people each year who turn in their dogs who are put down? Got to love that attitude towards one's pet.

All of you who are so turned off by Vicks vile behavior would one you please answer the question I keep asking? Ignore the legal aspect and only view it from the prism of what is ethical could you please enlighten me as to why it is considered not animal cruelty for someone to shoot a deer, stuff his head, and mount him on a wall so he can brag to his friends? How is this ok and why are these people not held in the same vile contempt as Vick? Is it because the deer won't wag it's tail when it see's you? How selfish.

I've said before and I'll say again Vick should be punished by both the NFL and law enforcement and I've never said otherwise. But I don't think he should lose his season or career and I don't he should spend years in jail but I do to this public outcry for blood that's what's likely to happen.

In the collections of words that did form a complete thought/sentence, it's unclear who ever said anything about valuing a pit bull's life over a human's life. It's unclear how you, who think so incoherently, have suddenly become a geneticist and can speak to pit bull DNA. What is so difficult for you to understand two simultaneous thoughts that include value to both man and dog? And, how is it that you don't consider maiming, electrocuting, hanging dogs and, otherwise, provoking them to chew each other to shreds just some of the most abhorrent denominator of a low-life scum?These are probably just rhetorical questions, since I don't suspect you'll discover much insight to articulate a cogent answer to any of these thoughts anytime soon.

My thoughts are pretty coherent but if you want to dumb this down to harping on my typing skills than go ahead but it fails to change anything. And yes Pit Bulls were bred to fight other dogs and if you don't think this has any affect on them today I can't help you or your simple view on life but hey, you come across as real articulate on a fantasy football message board so good for you.

So, you agree, then, that we should continue this practice, much in the tradition Vick and friends have been doing?

What practice, allowing pit bulls to fight one another? No but I guess you missed the part were I said he should be punished.

You compared this practice to those who humanely put down their dogs because they're suffering from terminal illnesses or are, otherwise, suffering. What are your views on punishment for these people who engage in this despicable practice? If you do not support punishment, why did you bring this up, in the first place?TIA.

Wait a second, the 750,000 people who have their dogs put down has nothing to do with the fact the dogs are suffering and I never said that. They just don't want the dogs any longer and turn them into the shelter.

 

[j3r3m3y]

Don't feed the troll.

 

[alg]

I have personally responded to Dog Fighting raids while working as a volunteer with my local Humane society. I have actually seen dogs torn apart lying in their own blood and trying to hold their head up. These same dogs will attempt to wag their tails with their very last ounce of energy as you try to help them. These dogs are abused from puppy bed to their final fight, the people who engage in this are heartless bastards.

Thanks for the post.This is all we need to understand. The perversion of life for the sake of entertainment is beyond explanation or justification. We give more respect to our food animals.Think of it this way: The reason dogfights are possible is because of the dogs' capacity to be trained - to loyally follow the leadings of the human master. It looks to us for leadership and guidance. While I will not debate the exact correlation with human emotions, nevertheless dogs have a long and heroic history of protecting, even saving the lives of men, women and children. It is the reason a dog will die defending us.What a great way to pay back 'a man's best friend.'

 

[cobalt_27]

Is this really M.Vick posting here?????

You sir(and i use that term very sarcastically)are no better than those heartless jackasses we are talking about.

Have you ever loved a dog or had a dog that loved you???? I doubt it...if you did you would see how stupid and irresponsible you sound.

It`s because of people like yourself that dog fighting and careless attitudes towards animals(pets)exist.

You are so simple. Yes I've owned a dog but I'd never own a pit bull. BTW you can't own a pit bull in over 5 countries, more than 20 US city's including Miami and you know why. Because these dogs were breed for the purpose of fighting other dogs, it's in their DNA. That's why they account for more attacks on humans and human fatalities than any other animal. So sorry if I'm not weeping for a few pit bulls and if that makes me wrong of a sicko for valuing human life over a pit bull than I'm guilty.As for careless attitudes towards pets, give me a break. Is it a crime for the 750,000 people each year who turn in their dogs who are put down? Got to love that attitude towards one's pet.

All of you who are so turned off by Vicks vile behavior would one you please answer the question I keep asking? Ignore the legal aspect and only view it from the prism of what is ethical could you please enlighten me as to why it is considered not animal cruelty for someone to shoot a deer, stuff his head, and mount him on a wall so he can brag to his friends? How is this ok and why are these people not held in the same vile contempt as Vick? Is it because the deer won't wag it's tail when it see's you? How selfish.

I've said before and I'll say again Vick should be punished by both the NFL and law enforcement and I've never said otherwise. But I don't think he should lose his season or career and I don't he should spend years in jail but I do to this public outcry for blood that's what's likely to happen.

In the collections of words that did form a complete thought/sentence, it's unclear who ever said anything about valuing a pit bull's life over a human's life. It's unclear how you, who think so incoherently, have suddenly become a geneticist and can speak to pit bull DNA. What is so difficult for you to understand two simultaneous thoughts that include value to both man and dog? And, how is it that you don't consider maiming, electrocuting, hanging dogs and, otherwise, provoking them to chew each other to shreds just some of the most abhorrent denominator of a low-life scum?These are probably just rhetorical questions, since I don't suspect you'll discover much insight to articulate a cogent answer to any of these thoughts anytime soon.

My thoughts are pretty coherent but if you want to dumb this down to harping on my typing skills than go ahead but it fails to change anything. And yes Pit Bulls were bred to fight other dogs and if you don't think this has any affect on them today I can't help you or your simple view on life but hey, you come across as real articulate on a fantasy football message board so good for you.

So, you agree, then, that we should continue this practice, much in the tradition Vick and friends have been doing?

What practice, allowing pit bulls to fight one another? No but I guess you missed the part were I said he should be punished.

You compared this practice to those who humanely put down their dogs because they're suffering from terminal illnesses or are, otherwise, suffering. What are your views on punishment for these people who engage in this despicable practice? If you do not support punishment, why did you bring this up, in the first place?TIA.

Wait a second, the 750,000 people who have their dogs put down has nothing to do with the fact the dogs are suffering and I never said that. They just don't want the dogs any longer and turn them into the shelter.

While I don't know the circumstances underlying this number, at least they're not actively torturing and killing them.It was suggested I stop feeding the troll. Therefore, you've been put on ignore.

 

[Tillmanisahero]

You are so simple. Yes I've owned a dog but I'd never own a pit bull. BTW you can't own a pit bull in over 5 countries, more than 20 US city's including Miami and you know why. Because these dogs were breed for the purpose of fighting other dogs, it's in their DNA. That's why they account for more attacks on humans and human fatalities than any other animal. So sorry if I'm not weeping for a few pit bulls and if that makes me wrong of a sicko for valuing human life over a pit bull than I'm guilty.

Wow are you misinformed. Pit Bulls were never bred to be human aggressive and they don't attack more than any other animal Pit Bulls that were Human aggressive were "put down" because they need to be handled while seriously injured. They also had to be handled by the owner of the other dog. The owner of the other dog had to be able to wash the dog to make sure there was no poison on the dogs fur. If a dog is human aggressive they couldn't do either.As a rule Pit Bulls make terrible guard dogs because they are way too trusting of other humans. That is also why they are so easy to steal.The Urban Legend you are most likely promoting is based on an old CDC study that was later discredited because there were 25 different breeds that people included as Pit Bulls (ie American Staffordshire Terrier, American Bulldogs, Dogo Argentinos, Presa Canarios etc...) They also found that most people responding or reporting dog attacks had no clue as to what breed the dog actually was. Their is a famous case where a local reporter in Atlanta wrote a story about a fatal "Pit Bull" attack and he took a picture of the dog...the dog turned out to be a stocky Lab In the United Kingdom, the Staffordshire Bull Terrier (which is one of the many dogs called Pit Bulls erroneously) is referred to as the nanny dog.Please please educate yourself before throwing out all that BS

 

[3C's]

Wait a second, the 750,000 people who have their dogs put down has nothing to do with the fact the dogs are suffering and I never said that. They just don't want the dogs any longer and turn them into the shelter.

Maybe you should do more than just read a blurb on the internet. Of the 15 or so dogs at the shelter where I volunteer, 2 were there because their owners had passed away, 4 were strays and one the owners gave him up because their newborn baby was allergic. There certainly are cases where the owners just don't want them anymore, but that's not always the case. And we get pitbull or pitbull mixes all the time. They're usually sweet playful dogs.

 

[3C's]

The lower class had used blood sports as an outlet.

And that's still the case today.

 

[menobrown]

You are so simple. Yes I've owned a dog but I'd never own a pit bull. BTW you can't own a pit bull in over 5 countries, more than 20 US city's including Miami and you know why. Because these dogs were breed for the purpose of fighting other dogs, it's in their DNA. That's why they account for more attacks on humans and human fatalities than any other animal. So sorry if I'm not weeping for a few pit bulls and if that makes me wrong of a sicko for valuing human life over a pit bull than I'm guilty.

Wow are you misinformed. Pit Bulls were never bred to be human aggressive and they don't attack more than any other animal Pit Bulls that were Human aggressive were "put down" because they need to be handled while seriously injured. They also had to be handled by the owner of the other dog. The owner of the other dog had to be able to wash the dog to make sure there was no poison on the dogs fur. If a dog is human aggressive they couldn't do either.As a rule Pit Bulls make terrible guard dogs because they are way too trusting of other humans. That is also why they are so easy to steal.The Urban Legend you are most likely promoting is based on an old CDC study that was later discredited because there were 25 different breeds that people included as Pit Bulls (ie American Staffordshire Terrier, American Bulldogs, Dogo Argentinos, Presa Canarios etc...) They also found that most people responding or reporting dog attacks had no clue as to what breed the dog actually was. Their is a famous case where a local reporter in Atlanta wrote a story about a fatal "Pit Bull" attack and he took a picture of the dog...the dog turned out to be a stocky Lab In the United Kingdom, the Staffordshire Bull Terrier (which is one of the many dogs called Pit Bulls erroneously) is referred to as the nanny dog.Please please educate yourself before throwing out all that BS

I'm afraid I'm not the one who needs an education on pit bulls as nothing I said was wrong. My typing skills suck but the lack of reading comprehension on these boards is disturbing. I never said Pit Bulls were trained to be human aggressive. They were trained to fight however, usually against each other but often against other animals as well. This led to an aggressive nature that exists in a lot of pit bulls today. This is not an urban legend and it's not an urban legend that pit bulls account for more attacks and fatalities on humans than any other dog and it's not an urban legend that pit bulls are banned in over 20 states and multiple countries.3c's- I hope when you play fantasy football you do a better job with stats than using your clinic of 15 as a sample size. Again, nothing I said was wrong. All Pit Bulls are not aggressive but the chances of them being aggressive is far greater than any other dog which is why I agree with bans on them. I don't agree with having them rip each other to shreds but I don't think people should be put in peril by them and agree with bans on them. One thing you will find me to be very consistent with is I value human life.I was going to be done with this topic but just hate seeing just wrong info. Look, I've never and would never attend a dog fight. I imagine the sounds of a wailing dog would make me sick. I cried when I read Old Yeller. What Vick did was wrong, it's a sick way for a guy with everything to spend his time on even if in his world it's acceptable. Furthermore he was stupid to finance it instead of simply attend dog fighting. He has to be punished and should be, I've repeatedly said so. My original comment in this thread was simply because I believe his punishment is going to be to severe from both the league and government due to the media frenzy and to me that's wrong.

 

[Tillmanisahero]

Also I wanted to add to my last post...

If Pit Bulls (American Pit Bull Terriers) are all killers by DNA then why can you go to a dog show with 50+ intact males walking around other dogs and kids and no one ever gets bit and rarely do you hear a growl? I tell you why, because they have good owners. Put a Pit Bull in the hands of a compassionate and intelligent owner and they are ATLEAST as stable as other dogs.

The temperament test that dogs are given at shelters before going up for adoption is passed by Pit Bulls over 83% of the time. If you look at all the other breeds combined they pass 77% of the time......hmmmmmm

Even though they are most likely abused more than any other breed yet they still remain stable and gentle family dogs.

 

[Tillmanisahero]

You are so simple. Yes I've owned a dog but I'd never own a pit bull. BTW you can't own a pit bull in over 5 countries, more than 20 US city's including Miami and you know why. Because these dogs were breed for the purpose of fighting other dogs, it's in their DNA. That's why they account for more attacks on humans and human fatalities than any other animal. So sorry if I'm not weeping for a few pit bulls and if that makes me wrong of a sicko for valuing human life over a pit bull than I'm guilty.

Wow are you misinformed. Pit Bulls were never bred to be human aggressive and they don't attack more than any other animal Pit Bulls that were Human aggressive were "put down" because they need to be handled while seriously injured. They also had to be handled by the owner of the other dog. The owner of the other dog had to be able to wash the dog to make sure there was no poison on the dogs fur. If a dog is human aggressive they couldn't do either.

As a rule Pit Bulls make terrible guard dogs because they are way too trusting of other humans. That is also why they are so easy to steal.

The Urban Legend you are most likely promoting is based on an old CDC study that was later discredited because there were 25 different breeds that people included as Pit Bulls (ie American Staffordshire Terrier, American Bulldogs, Dogo Argentinos, Presa Canarios etc...) They also found that most people responding or reporting dog attacks had no clue as to what breed the dog actually was. Their is a famous case where a local reporter in Atlanta wrote a story about a fatal "Pit Bull" attack and he took a picture of the dog...the dog turned out to be a stocky Lab :(

In the United Kingdom, the Staffordshire Bull Terrier (which is one of the many dogs called Pit Bulls erroneously) is referred to as the nanny dog.

Please please educate yourself before throwing out all that BS

I'm afraid I'm not the one who needs an education on pit bulls as nothing I said was wrong. My typing skills suck but the lack of reading comprehension on these boards is disturbing. I never said Pit Bulls were trained to be human aggressive. They were trained to fight however, usually against each other but often against other animals as well. This led to an aggressive nature that exists in a lot of pit bulls today. This is not an urban legend and it's not an urban legend that pit bulls account for more attacks and fatalities on humans than any other dog and it's not an urban legend that pit bulls are banned in over 20 states and multiple countries.

Human aggression and Dog Agression are two completely different things. Even the dogs that are champion dog fighters and will attack other dogs on sight are almost always very friendly toward even strangers (Humans)The Pit Bulls that attack people are usually mixes or not even Pit Bulls. If you cross a Pit Bull with a breed that has been breed for human aggression (Rotts, German Shep. or Dobermans) then you can have problems. It is not the breed but the idiots who are attracted to them to enhance their own "Toughness".

Most of the dogs that cause the fatalities that you talk about are not even Pit Bulls, the people who report the attacks don't know what they are talking about

go here Can you Pick out the real Pit Bull?

I bet you can't...just like most people can't.

It is unreal how many people think they know what they are talking about when dealing with Pit Bulls and in the end they are just spreading lies, fear and hate that result in all the Stupid bans that you talk about. In some cities they are not just statisfied with Pit Bulls. The breed list are expanding because governments refuse to hold people responsible and scapegoat entire dog breeds instead.

 

[Sleeper 43]

Overall I think alot of people are calling for Vicks head too soon. Im not saying I agree with dog fighting I'm just saying the media's doing a good job getting everyone riled up and this story has just begun.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

You are so simple. Yes I've owned a dog but I'd never own a pit bull. BTW you can't own a pit bull in over 5 countries, more than 20 US city's including Miami and you know why. Because these dogs were breed for the purpose of fighting other dogs, it's in their DNA. That's why they account for more attacks on humans and human fatalities than any other animal. So sorry if I'm not weeping for a few pit bulls and if that makes me wrong of a sicko for valuing human life over a pit bull than I'm guilty.

Wow are you misinformed. Pit Bulls were never bred to be human aggressive and they don't attack more than any other animal Pit Bulls that were Human aggressive were "put down" because they need to be handled while seriously injured. They also had to be handled by the owner of the other dog. The owner of the other dog had to be able to wash the dog to make sure there was no poison on the dogs fur. If a dog is human aggressive they couldn't do either.

As a rule Pit Bulls make terrible guard dogs because they are way too trusting of other humans. That is also why they are so easy to steal.

The Urban Legend you are most likely promoting is based on an old CDC study that was later discredited because there were 25 different breeds that people included as Pit Bulls (ie American Staffordshire Terrier, American Bulldogs, Dogo Argentinos, Presa Canarios etc...) They also found that most people responding or reporting dog attacks had no clue as to what breed the dog actually was. Their is a famous case where a local reporter in Atlanta wrote a story about a fatal "Pit Bull" attack and he took a picture of the dog...the dog turned out to be a stocky Lab

In the United Kingdom, the Staffordshire Bull Terrier (which is one of the many dogs called Pit Bulls erroneously) is referred to as the nanny dog.

Please please educate yourself before throwing out all that BS

I'm afraid I'm not the one who needs an education on pit bulls as nothing I said was wrong. My typing skills suck but the lack of reading comprehension on these boards is disturbing. I never said Pit Bulls were trained to be human aggressive. They were trained to fight however, usually against each other but often against other animals as well. This led to an aggressive nature that exists in a lot of pit bulls today. This is not an urban legend and it's not an urban legend that pit bulls account for more attacks and fatalities on humans than any other dog and it's not an urban legend that pit bulls are banned in over 20 states and multiple countries.

3c's- I hope when you play fantasy football you do a better job with stats than using your clinic of 15 as a sample size. Again, nothing I said was wrong. All Pit Bulls are not aggressive but the chances of them being aggressive is far greater than any other dog which is why I agree with bans on them. I don't agree with having them rip each other to shreds but I don't think people should be put in peril by them and agree with bans on them. One thing you will find me to be very consistent with is I value human life.

I was going to be done with this topic but just hate seeing just wrong info. Look, I've never and would never attend a dog fight. I imagine the sounds of a wailing dog would make me sick. I cried when I read Old Yeller. What Vick did was wrong, it's a sick way for a guy with everything to spend his time on even if in his world it's acceptable. Furthermore he was stupid to finance it instead of simply attend dog fighting. He has to be punished and should be, I've repeatedly said so. My original comment in this thread was simply because I believe his punishment is going to be to severe from both the league and government due to the media frenzy and to me that's wrong.

Menobrown.....please relent to the facts and stop arguing for the sake of arguing :( Common dangerous dog breeds

When addressing the topic of "dangerous dogs", it is important to remember that no breed is guaranteed to be 100% bite-free or attack-free.

"Blacklisted" breeds may include:

Pit Bulls Alaskan Malamutes

Rottweilers Akitas

Chow Chows American Staffordshire Terriers

Doberman Pinschers Boxers

German Shepherds Great Danes

Siberian Huskies Wolf-hybrids

Perro de Presa Canarios.

The Presa Canario breed came to the forefront when Diane Whipple was attacked and killed outside the door of her California apartment.

Any dog that has any of the above breeds in their lineage.

http://www.dogbitelegalcenter.com/resources/common-dogs.html

The Dogs Most Likely To Bite

The Centers for Disease Control study dog bite incidents, including the types of dogs most likely to bite. The breeds that the CDC considers highest risk are pit bulls, Rottweilers, German shepherds, huskies, Alaskan malamutes, Doberman pinschers, chows, Great Danes, St. Bernards and Akitas.

A British study before and after the pit bull ban in 1991 into "mammalian bites" showed that German shepherds far outranked pit bulls.

By far the most serious dog offenders in both studies were the German shepherds and cross-bred dogs.

 

[menobrown]

I only deal with facts Busted Knuckles, you just refuse to accept that. But if you won't take my word on it, take the PETA co-founder's word for it.

Controlling an animal as deadly as a weapon

-- Ingrid Newkirk

Most people have no idea that at many animal shelters across the country, any pit bull that comes through the front door doesn't go out the back door alive. From California to New York, many shelters have enacted policies requiring the automatic destruction of the huge and ever-growing number of "pits" they encounter. This news shocks and outrages the compassionate dog-lover.

Here's another shocker: People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, the very organization that is trying to get you to denounce the killing of chickens for the table, foxes for fur or frogs for dissection, supports the shelters' pit-bull policy, albeit with reluctance. We further encourage a ban on breeding pit bulls.

The pit bull's ancestor, the Staffordshire terrier, is a human concoction, bred in my native England, I'm ashamed to say, as a weapon. These dogs were designed specifically to fight other animals and kill them, for sport. Hence the barrel chest, the thick hammer-like head, the strong jaws, the perseverance and the stamina. Pits can take down a bull weighing in at over a thousand pounds, so a human being a tenth of that weight can easily be seriously hurt or killed.

Pit bulls are perhaps the most abused dogs on the planet. These days, they are kept for protection by almost every drug dealer and pimp in every major city and beyond. You can drive into any depressed area and see them being used as cheap burglar alarms, wearing heavy logging chains around their necks (they easily break regular collars and harnesses), attached to a stake or metal drum or rundown doghouse without a floor and with holes in the roof. Bored juveniles sic them on cats, neighbors' small dogs and even children.

In the PETA office, we have a file drawer chock-full of accounts of attacks in which these ill-treated dogs with names like "Murder" and "Homicide" have torn the faces and fingers off infants and even police officers trying to serve warrants. Before I co-founded PETA, I served as the chief of animal-disease control and director of the animal shelter in the District of Columbia for many years. Over and over again, I waded into ugly situations and pulled pit bulls from people who beat and starved them, or chained them to metal drums as "guard" dogs, or trained them to attack people and other animals. It is this abuse, and the tragedy that comes from it, that motivates me.

Those who argue against a breeding ban and the shelter euthanasia policy for pit bulls are naive, as shown by the horrifying death of Nicholas Faibish, the San Francisco 12-year-old who was mauled by his family's pit bulls.

Tales like this abound. I have scars on my leg and arm from my own encounter with a pit. Many are loving and will kiss on sight, but many are unpredictable. An unpredictable Chihuahua is one thing, an unpredictable pit another.

People who genuinely care about dogs won't be affected by a ban on pit- bull breeding. They can go to the shelter and save one of the countless other breeds and lovable mutts sitting on death row. We can only stop killing pits if we stop creating new ones. Legislators, please take note.

 

[Tillmanisahero]

I only deal with facts Busted Knuckles, you just refuse to accept that. But if you won't take my word on it, take the PETA co-founder's word for it.

-- Ingrid Newkirk

PETA? I have personally spoken to Ms Newkirk and let me tell you....logic is not here strong point.Why have you not responded to my statement earlier....if Pit Bulls are genetic killers like you say, why can you go to any Dog Show and see 50+ American Pit Bull Terriers walking around other dogs and people (including kids) and no one ever get bit or attacked? If it is in their genes then they would kill everyone...right?

Please don't buy into the fear mongering of a few....It is all about the People not the breed of dog.

Why didn't you ever hear about Pit Bull attacks before the Drug explosion in the cities in the 1980s?

On you CDC link...did you look at the dates? Did you know that the CDC has stopped tracking the breed of dog for bites because of the unreliable method of identify dogs and their breed. Most of the time when some one cries "Pit Bull" it isn't even a pit bull

Can you Pick out the real Pit Bull? Try this ID quiz

 

[menobrown]

PETA? I have personally spoken to Ms Newkirk and let me tell you....logic is not here strong point.

Why have you not responded to my statement earlier....if Pit Bulls are genetic killers like you say, why can you go to any Dog Show and see 50+ American Pit Bull Terriers walking around other dogs and people (including kids) and no one ever get bit or attacked? If it is in their genes then they would kill everyone...right?

I did not see you asked me a question. Not all Pit Bulls are bad they are just not predictable. You seem very knowledgeable about dogs and I'm sure your experience with Pit Bulls has been positive but they do attack more often than other dogs. I hate to let personal things interfere with a debate but I've seen a pit bull attack my niece for no reason and all I can say I'm just glad she got out of it with a permanent scar on her face. Maybe, probably, that is a reason I feel so negative about Pit Bulls but I'm not alone either.The CDC may have stopped keeping track but you are probably familiar with the Clifton study which breaks dogs down by breeds.

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/Dog%20Attacks%20...6%20Clifton.pdf

 

[Tillmanisahero]

PETA? I have personally spoken to Ms Newkirk and let me tell you....logic is not here strong point.

Why have you not responded to my statement earlier....if Pit Bulls are genetic killers like you say, why can you go to any Dog Show and see 50+ American Pit Bull Terriers walking around other dogs and people (including kids) and no one ever get bit or attacked? If it is in their genes then they would kill everyone...right?

I did not see you asked me a question. Not all Pit Bulls are bad they are just not predictable. You seem very knowledgeable about dogs and I'm sure your experience with Pit Bulls has been positive but they do attack more often than other dogs. I hate to let personal things interfere with a debate but I've seen a pit bull attack my niece for no reason and all I can say I'm just glad she got out of it with a permanent scar on her face. Maybe, probably, that is a reason I feel so negative about Pit Bulls but I'm not alone either.The CDC may have stopped keeping track but you are probably familiar with the Clifton study which breaks dogs down by breeds.

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/Dog%20Attacks%20...6%20Clifton.pdf

Clifton report is based on press reports, not reports by people who are knowledgeable about dogs. The press wants to sell newspapers and grab attention, nothing gets peoples attention more than "PIT BULL" attack. You wouldn't want a study of the Holocaust done by neo nazis would you? (an exaggeration meant to make a point)Pit Bull are more predictable on average than most other breeds and the average of all breeds combined.

Pit Bull temp. test results

I am really sorry to hear about your niece, but if you remove the emotion from that event (hard I know) and I hope you realize that it was the idiot who raised that dog not the dog breeds fault. That could have been a Lab Lab Attack

In my extended family their about 20 dogs we have everything from Labs, Collies, Pugs, Poodle mixes etc.... and the most stable and predictable dogs are two Pit Bulls. You couldn't get them to be aggressive, it is all in how you raise them.

BTW, I would still love to see how you did on that quiz...how many times did you have to guess before you picked out the Pit Bull.

 

[j3r3m3y]

PETA? I have personally spoken to Ms Newkirk and let me tell you....logic is not here strong point.

Why have you not responded to my statement earlier....if Pit Bulls are genetic killers like you say, why can you go to any Dog Show and see 50+ American Pit Bull Terriers walking around other dogs and people (including kids) and no one ever get bit or attacked? If it is in their genes then they would kill everyone...right?

I did not see you asked me a question. Not all Pit Bulls are bad they are just not predictable. You seem very knowledgeable about dogs and I'm sure your experience with Pit Bulls has been positive but they do attack more often than other dogs. I hate to let personal things interfere with a debate but I've seen a pit bull attack my niece for no reason and all I can say I'm just glad she got out of it with a permanent scar on her face. Maybe, probably, that is a reason I feel so negative about Pit Bulls but I'm not alone either.The CDC may have stopped keeping track but you are probably familiar with the Clifton study which breaks dogs down by breeds.

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/Dog%20Attacks%20...6%20Clifton.pdf

Clifton report is based on press reports, not reports by people who are knowledgeable about dogs. The press wants to sell newspapers and grab attention, nothing gets peoples attention more than "PIT BULL" attack. You wouldn't want a study of the Holocaust done by neo nazis would you? (an exaggeration meant to make a point)Pit Bull are more predictable on average than most other breeds and the average of all breeds combined.

Pit Bull temp. test results

I am really sorry to hear about your niece, but if you remove the emotion from that event (hard I know) and I hope you realize that it was the idiot who raised that dog not the dog breeds fault. That could have been a Lab Lab Attack

In my extended family their about 20 dogs we have everything from Labs, Collies, Pugs, Poodle mixes etc.... and the most stable and predictable dogs are two Pit Bulls. You couldn't get them to be aggressive, it is all in how you raise them.

BTW, I would still love to see how you did on that quiz...how many times did you have to guess before you picked out the Pit Bull.

Great Football info here! Keep it coming!

 

[ceo3west]

Great Football info here! Keep it coming!

I think it's time to merge all the Vick threads. This is just stupid now.

 

[Chaos Commish]

PETA? I have personally spoken to Ms Newkirk and let me tell you....logic is not here strong point.

Why have you not responded to my statement earlier....if Pit Bulls are genetic killers like you say, why can you go to any Dog Show and see 50+ American Pit Bull Terriers walking around other dogs and people (including kids) and no one ever get bit or attacked? If it is in their genes then they would kill everyone...right?

I did not see you asked me a question. Not all Pit Bulls are bad they are just not predictable. You seem very knowledgeable about dogs and I'm sure your experience with Pit Bulls has been positive but they do attack more often than other dogs. I hate to let personal things interfere with a debate but I've seen a pit bull attack my niece for no reason and all I can say I'm just glad she got out of it with a permanent scar on her face. Maybe, probably, that is a reason I feel so negative about Pit Bulls but I'm not alone either.The CDC may have stopped keeping track but you are probably familiar with the Clifton study which breaks dogs down by breeds.

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/Dog%20Attacks%20...6%20Clifton.pdf

Clifton report is based on press reports, not reports by people who are knowledgeable about dogs. The press wants to sell newspapers and grab attention, nothing gets peoples attention more than "PIT BULL" attack. You wouldn't want a study of the Holocaust done by neo nazis would you? (an exaggeration meant to make a point)Pit Bull are more predictable on average than most other breeds and the average of all breeds combined.

Pit Bull temp. test results

I am really sorry to hear about your niece, but if you remove the emotion from that event (hard I know) and I hope you realize that it was the idiot who raised that dog not the dog breeds fault. That could have been a Lab Lab Attack

In my extended family their about 20 dogs we have everything from Labs, Collies, Pugs, Poodle mixes etc.... and the most stable and predictable dogs are two Pit Bulls. You couldn't get them to be aggressive, it is all in how you raise them.

BTW, I would still love to see how you did on that quiz...how many times did you have to guess before you picked out the Pit Bull.

Great Football info here! Keep it coming!

Agreed. Tillman and Meno actually share a common enemy, dogfighting. They're both right and wrong, imo, but it's great to see this topic vetted. When I mentioned being a "registered expert witness" on this topic (Pit Bulls and dogfighting), it was none other than Ken Phillips, the big dog at dogbitelaw.com who got me involved. Move it to the FFA, mods?