Mad Cow
Welshers and Dawdlers Beware!
Well, it's 50% better than Tropico 2.Tell me more about Tropico 3.'Drifter said:...I moved on to Tropico 3. Decent fun there in the Sim City vein with a twist...
Well, it's 50% better than Tropico 2.Tell me more about Tropico 3.'Drifter said:...I moved on to Tropico 3. Decent fun there in the Sim City vein with a twist...
Tropical Dictator Sim. Based on the banana republics of the Cold War. You build up an island and manage the people in any way you see fit from vacation paradise to leading arms manufacturer. Be friendly to the people or be a ruthless dictator. Be friendly with the US or USSR or ignore them both. You can do the campaign which runs through various scenarios and goals or just do the open sandbox and play as you want.Tongue in cheek but still a decent sim.Tell me more about Tropico 3.'Drifter said:...I moved on to Tropico 3. Decent fun there in the Sim City vein with a twist...
Thanks. I'll give it another go.Yes. The initial stages are there to get you used to the controls and the universe itself if you didn't play the first one.It's after your return to The Citadel that it really gets moving.I'm 3 hrs in, and somehow it just hasn't captivated me yet. Maybe it was hyped so much in this thread that I built up unrealistic expectations. Does it take a little more time to really get rolling? I'm trying to figure out if I should motivate myself to keep playing...The best is being half good/half bad.There's something enormously gratifying about shoving a smart mouthed bad guy out of a window 200 stories above the ground.If you've never played Mass Effect 2, don't ever try it. It has completely consumed my entire life over the past two weeks.
I meant, after you get through Freedom's Progress.
What about $80? I have this one and really like it. The ability to make your voice sound like a robot or squirrel to annoy/entertain your fellow gamers isCan anyone recommend a decent headset for PC gaming? I am not a hardcore gamer so I'm not interested in buying a $200+ pro gamer headset.

I have a tendency not to finish a lot of games, but once you get rolling with ME2 you'll want to see it through to the end.Thanks. I'll give it another go.Yes. The initial stages are there to get you used to the controls and the universe itself if you didn't play the first one.It's after your return to The Citadel that it really gets moving.I'm 3 hrs in, and somehow it just hasn't captivated me yet. Maybe it was hyped so much in this thread that I built up unrealistic expectations. Does it take a little more time to really get rolling? I'm trying to figure out if I should motivate myself to keep playing...The best is being half good/half bad.There's something enormously gratifying about shoving a smart mouthed bad guy out of a window 200 stories above the ground.If you've never played Mass Effect 2, don't ever try it. It has completely consumed my entire life over the past two weeks.
I meant, after you get through Freedom's Progress.
bought it for $5 on steam a few weeks back. Got my money's worth.My issue with it is that its impossible to keep your island organized due to the terrain. My cities always ended up looking unorganized and ugly. Plus you had to place 6 billion houses because all the good ones held very few people. I'm sure that was on purpose, but throwing up 6,000 identical tenement blocks to house the unwashed masses just didn't do it for me. Good game though if you like sims.Tropical Dictator Sim. Based on the banana republics of the Cold War. You build up an island and manage the people in any way you see fit from vacation paradise to leading arms manufacturer. Be friendly to the people or be a ruthless dictator. Be friendly with the US or USSR or ignore them both. You can do the campaign which runs through various scenarios and goals or just do the open sandbox and play as you want.Tongue in cheek but still a decent sim.Tell me more about Tropico 3....I moved on to Tropico 3. Decent fun there in the Sim City vein with a twist...
Nice. Unfortunately, I'm in Canada, and newegg.ca is selling them for $120.What about $80? I have this one and really like it. The ability to make your voice sound like a robot or squirrel to annoy/entertain your fellow gamers isCan anyone recommend a decent headset for PC gaming? I am not a hardcore gamer so I'm not interested in buying a $200+ pro gamer headset.![]()
Wow, I have no idea on that. The wires are pretty burly so that shouldn't be too much of a problem. I guess as long as it has a warranty and return policy.Nice. Unfortunately, I'm in Canada, and newegg.ca is selling them for $120.What about $80? I have this one and really like it. The ability to make your voice sound like a robot or squirrel to annoy/entertain your fellow gamers isCan anyone recommend a decent headset for PC gaming? I am not a hardcore gamer so I'm not interested in buying a $200+ pro gamer headset.![]()
What are your thoughts on refurbished items? A computer store nearby is selling refurbished G35 for a similar price.
Whichever one you get, I'd advice against the one Corp uses - always sounds like he is yelling.What about $80? I have this one and really like it. The ability to make your voice sound like a robot or squirrel to annoy/entertain your fellow gamers isCan anyone recommend a decent headset for PC gaming? I am not a hardcore gamer so I'm not interested in buying a $200+ pro gamer headset.![]()
And swearing, too. Lots of frustrated swearing.Whichever one you get, I'd advice against the one Corp uses - always sounds like he is yelling.What about $80? I have this one and really like it. The ability to make your voice sound like a robot or squirrel to annoy/entertain your fellow gamers isCan anyone recommend a decent headset for PC gaming? I am not a hardcore gamer so I'm not interested in buying a $200+ pro gamer headset.![]()
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What is this Origin witchcraft you speak of? I.e can i get the link please?So I preordered BF3 at Origin and got the free MOH download. Got another email today saying thanks for preordering BF3, go ahead and take Dead Space 2 for free, as well.Well, OK.
Witches!What is this Origin witchcraft you speak of? I.e can i get the link please?So I preordered BF3 at Origin and got the free MOH download. Got another email today saying thanks for preordering BF3, go ahead and take Dead Space 2 for free, as well.Well, OK.
Why most people don't finish video games
By Blake Snow, Special to CNN
August 17, 2011 8:00 a.m. EDT | Filed under: Gaming & Gadgets
One expert estimates 90% of players who start a game will never see the end of it
Only one of every 10 gamers finished the 2010 consensus "Game of the Year"
Time-pressed gamers are already warming to the idea of shorter games
(CNN) -- Once considered a cult pastime, video games have grown immensely in the last 30 years to become a mainstream fixture alongside movies and music.
But you wouldn't know it by how often players finish their games.
In fact, the attrition (or bounce rate) of video games is pretty pathetic. "What I've been told as a blanket expectation is that 90% of players who start your game will never see the end of it unless they watch a clip on YouTube," says Keith Fuller, a longtime production contractor for Activision.
That's a lot of unfinished games.
And it doesn't get much better when isolated to just avid gamers.
"Just 10 years ago, I recall some standard that only 20% of gamers ever finish a game," says John Lee, VP of marketing at Raptr and former executive at Capcom, THQ and Sega.
And it's not just dull games that go unfinished. Critically acclaimed ones do, too. Take last year's "Red Dead Redemption." You might think Rockstar's gritty Western would be played more than others, given the praise it enjoyed, but you'd be wrong.
Only 10% of avid gamers completed the final mission, according to Raptr, which tracks more than 23 million gaming sessions.
Let that sink in for a minute: Of every 10 people who started playing the consensus "Game of the Year," only one of them finished it.
How is that? Shouldn't such a high-rated game keep people engaged? Or have player attention spans reached a breaking point?
Who's to blame: The developer or the player? Or maybe it's our culture?
The correct answer is, in fact, all of the above.
The aging gamer
At the beginning of the 21st century, the average gamer was pushing 30 -- mid-to-late 20s, to be exact. They weren't playing as often as they did in their adolescence, but in between entry-level jobs, earnest slacking and higher education, there was still ample time to game.
Fast forward to today, and the average gamer is 37, according to the Entertainment Software Association. The average age of the most frequent game buyer is 41 -- nearing Just for Men-type levels. They're raising kids. In the middle of a career. Worried about retirement.
Not only that, but time is precious for gamers of all ages.
"People have short attention spans and limited time now," says Jeremy Airey, head of U.S. production at Konami.
"The amount of digital distractions now is far greater than it's ever been before," he says. "People need time to check their Facebook, send a Twitter (tweet), be witty on their blog, play with their phone -- oh, and that game you made. If they feel as though the end is far away, they'll simply say, 'I don't have time for that' and stop playing."
In other words, the longer the game, the higher probability a player will abandon it. "Red Dead Redemption" takes upward of 30 hours to complete, according to howlongtobeat.com, and few players are willing to commit that much time.
A glut of games
Not only that, but the accelerating rate at which new games are released cannibalizes existing games and further distracts the already inundated player.
"In the last two decades the growth of video games has produced a huge influx of games," Fuller says. "There are more players today, but there are also more games per player. Since you can't spend as much time on each game, you're less likely to finish the one in front of you."
Not only did gamers have more time in the eight- and 16-bit days, but they had fewer games to complete.
Of course, engagement levels vary by genre and difficulty. "As expected, 'Red Dead Redemption' is the lowest completed high-profile game because it's so big," Lee says.
The gaming platform has an impact on completion rates as well. Low-caloric and hyper-short web games are finished 85% of the time, according to Backloggery.com, a website that helps players finish the games they already own before buying new ones. Conversely, meatier games on PS3 are finished less often, according to Backloggery.
Either way, this shifting demand is more than enough to sway developers in a different direction. For starters, they are creating less epic games, at least in terms of duration.
"Long gone are the days of starting a game on a high-level concept," says Konami's Airey. The reason: "It's costly," he says.
Fuller says the devil is in the details.
"I worked on a project that took 50 people and 18 months to produce 20 minutes of game play," he says. "With the expectations so high for visual and audio fidelity, lifelike animations, enemy behavior and movie-quality cinemas, it can take two years for a team of 100 people to create six hours of playable story. At an average burn rate of $10,000 per man month, that's $24 million just in developer cost. You're not likely to find a publisher that will foot the bill for extending that campaign to 20 hours."
Of course, why make a 20-plus hour game when most players aren't completing them, as is the case with "Red Dead Redemption"? The answer is, most publishers don't.
Growth of online multiplayer
Which brings us to perhaps the biggest contributing factor in the decrease of lengthy campaign modes. It is this: Gamers may say they like playing epic single-player games. But when push comes to shove, what they really want is online multiplayer.
"The trend of low completion rates is equally driven by the growing importance of multiplayer," says Scott Steinberg, head of video game consulting firm TechSavvy. "Companies are more aware than ever of where and how games are being consumed, and what features players look for. As a result, they're de-emphasizing single-player, which seem to demand lower levels of player time, energy and investment."
Case in point: "Call of Duty: Black Ops." At an average of 67 hours played, it's the most-played recent game by far, according to Raptr, followed by "Halo: Reach" at 43 hours, and "Bad Company 2" at 18. (Perhaps today's gamer would finish a lot more games if he weren't so busy with multiplayer.)
But that's not entirely true. What's really happened is that with their change in lifestyle, gamer tastes have evolved. Instead of "Zelda"-like games that take longer to start and resume, they're more inclined to play stop-and-go titles in bite-size games.
Need more convincing? "These days, I know many people who buy the latest single-player/multiplayer shooter (game) and never even bother to load the single-player," Fuller says.
The future? Shorter games
So it's come to this: People have less time to play games than they did before. They have more options than ever. And they're more inclined to play quick-hit multiplayer modes, even at the expense of 100-hour epics.
Is that a problem?
Not at all, Fuller says. "They're lucky to find the time to beat a 10-hour game once or twice a month," he says of the average-age gamer. "They don't feel cheated about shorter games and will just play a longer game for as many hours as their schedule allows before moving on to another title.
Steinberg agrees: "Just because you don't slay the final boss or rescue the princess doesn't mean you can't see most of, if not all, of what a game has to offer in the hours leading up to it."
Not only that, but gamers are already warming to the idea of shorter games.
"Completion rates are actually on the rise," Lee says. "Many games now have a 40% to 50% completion rate, thanks to 10-hour campaigns instead of the 20-30 hour ones of yesteryear. Of course, that's good or bad depending on how you look at it. It's better than before. But it still means that more than half of all game content never gets appreciated."
To counter that, Airey says extended play content will increasingly come from expansion packs, a sort of best-of-both-worlds approach.
"We're at a stage now that we're trying to find ways to keep mind share (consumer awareness about a product)," he says. "When the consumer is not playing our game, their friends aren't either. So games will trend toward being shorter and then support the need for 'more' via downloadable content."
No matter, says Casey Willis, an avid gamer from Atlanta. "Make a game worth my time and money, and I'll be happy. After all, 10 hours of awesome is better than 20 hours of boring."
Rhymes. I finish more games now than I ever did as a kid. If you break it down, the entertainment time for a video game is one of the better deals around....and that's not even counting the countless hours one can play online multiplayer stuff.I agree with that article. I finish games, but that is rarer. ME, ME2 you bet. I will do those. I even finished Fallout 3, as well. The single-player of BFBC2 was short, so yes. But I cannot tell you how many games I have started and not finished.![]()
According to Steam's Achievement Statistics page, less than 50% of players who own Portal have even finished the game. Less than 75% have even gotten the fully upgraded Portal gun. At least a higher percentage of Portal 2 Steam owners have beaten Portal 2, with 63.3%. But only just a little over half have even tried the co-op campaign 57.8%.I agree with that article. I finish games, but that is rarer. ME, ME2 you bet. I will do those. I even finished Fallout 3, as well. The single-player of BFBC2 was short, so yes. But I cannot tell you how many games I have started and not finished.![]()
Good question. I've beaten the main storyline and all side-missions of all GTA games, but never gotten 100% completion.How do they define "finishing" a game like Red Dead? I beat the main storyline but I certainly didn't get 100% completion.
They mean most people, like me, never even finished the main storyline.Good question. I've beaten the main storyline and all side-missions of all GTA games, but never gotten 100% completion.How do they define "finishing" a game like Red Dead? I beat the main storyline but I certainly didn't get 100% completion.
I can definitely believe that. I'd bet a low percentage of Modern Warfare 2 owners have even finished the single player campaign.They mean most people, like me, never even finished the main storyline.Good question. I've beaten the main storyline and all side-missions of all GTA games, but never gotten 100% completion.How do they define "finishing" a game like Red Dead? I beat the main storyline but I certainly didn't get 100% completion.
I am good for 1 playthrough if I complete one, no more, but that could be due to the fact that I have tons of games I have yet to even start. And yes, I did finish Portal and Portal 2 - both were fantastic. I am not an achievement hunter, though. Finished HL and HL2, but not the episodes.According to Steam's Achievement Statistics page, less than 50% of players who own Portal have even finished the game. Less than 75% have even gotten the fully upgraded Portal gun. At least a higher percentage of Portal 2 Steam owners have beaten Portal 2, with 63.3%. But only just a little over half have even tried the co-op campaign 57.8%.I agree with that article. I finish games, but that is rarer. ME, ME2 you bet. I will do those. I even finished Fallout 3, as well. The single-player of BFBC2 was short, so yes. But I cannot tell you how many games I have started and not finished.![]()
Note: For those who haven't played any of the Portal games, reading the achievement names may be a spoiler.
FixedMake more less open sand box games.
TIA.
What's your ideal game then?'Andy Dufresne said:Fixed'wazoo11 said:Make more less open sand box games.
TIA.

Disagree. The "average gamer" they have sketched doesn't have time for extended co-op sessions. They game on small snippets of time they manage to salvage from the demands of every day life. Co-op gaming requires planning and extended sesions.IDK, to me it always depended more on the quality of the game's story. Time is certainly an element, but for example, I never bothered with Black Ops single player because I had multiple friends tell me it was terribly frustrating and just felt tacked on. I know I felt it was tacked on for MW2 and just a demo to teach you how to use the many different weapons for multiplayer.To me, if you want to get more players to finish and more involved in the game make more co-op storylines. Nearly every co-op game I have played the last few years I have finished.
Can't tell if you are being serious or not, or mainly bashing what the video game industry has decided is their audience. But I couldn't disagree more about the planning or extended sessions unless you want to play with a dedicated group of people every time (which I will admit is a stumbling block for a lot of people.)Drop in and drop out co-op requires next to no planning for the games that do it right (Left for Dead for example.) It's come a long way since the days of lan parties or system link in order to play. It takes just as much time as sitting in a multiplayer lobby or seeing who pops up on your friends list when you log on.Disagree. The "average gamer" they have sketched doesn't have time for extended co-op sessions. They game on small snippets of time they manage to salvage from the demands of every day life. Co-op gaming requires planning and extended sesions.IDK, to me it always depended more on the quality of the game's story. Time is certainly an element, but for example, I never bothered with Black Ops single player because I had multiple friends tell me it was terribly frustrating and just felt tacked on. I know I felt it was tacked on for MW2 and just a demo to teach you how to use the many different weapons for multiplayer.To me, if you want to get more players to finish and more involved in the game make more co-op storylines. Nearly every co-op game I have played the last few years I have finished.
I liked the opinion article in Game Informer where the author was looking for more non-railed sand box games. That's what I'd want.What's your ideal game then?'Andy Dufresne said:Fixed'wazoo11 said:Make more less open sand box games.
TIA.![]()
IDK, to me it always depended more on the quality of the game's story. Time is certainly an element, but for example, I never bothered with Black Ops single player because I had multiple friends tell me it was terribly frustrating and just felt tacked on. I know I felt it was tacked on for MW2 and just a demo to teach you how to use the many different weapons for multiplayer.
To me, if you want to get more players to finish and more involved in the game make more co-op storylines. Nearly every co-op game I have played the last few years I have finished.
MW2 is probable the best combat/war genre single player campaign I have ever played.looking at this game on youtube and it looks pretty slick. straightfoward but not simple.Almost done with Trine. Very very cool game.
I like my games more linear. I can't stand spending 45 minutes having to figure out what I'm supposed to do or where I'm supposed to go before I can go do it. Games like Bioshock and Mass Effect are far superior to ones like Red Dead Redemption or Fallout.What's your ideal game then?'Andy Dufresne said:Fixed'wazoo11 said:Make more less open sand box games.
TIA.![]()
Surprised you need so much hand holding.I like my games more linear. I can't stand spending 45 minutes having to figure out what I'm supposed to do or where I'm supposed to go before I can go do it. Games like Bioshock and Mass Effect are far superior to ones like Red Dead Redemption or Fallout.What's your ideal game then?'Andy Dufresne said:Fixed'wazoo11 said:Make more less open sand box games.
TIA.![]()
I don't know if it's even that. I think there are just too many "side missions" in those open worlds that the main storyline gets lost.I want to play the game, experience the story, and move on to a different game.Plus, in a game like Fallout 3, if you go too far too fast you rapidly become under-equipped and the game gets too hard to be fun.Surprised you need so much hand holding.I like my games more linear. I can't stand spending 45 minutes having to figure out what I'm supposed to do or where I'm supposed to go before I can go do it. Games like Bioshock and Mass Effect are far superior to ones like Red Dead Redemption or Fallout.
I enjoy open-world games, but Andy has a point. I can't think of any sandbox game that even touches Bioshock or Mass Effect in terms of pacing and story-telling. That's an inherent flaw of the sandbox structure.Surprised you need so much hand holding.I like my games more linear. I can't stand spending 45 minutes having to figure out what I'm supposed to do or where I'm supposed to go before I can go do it. Games like Bioshock and Mass Effect are far superior to ones like Red Dead Redemption or Fallout.What's your ideal game then?'Andy Dufresne said:Fixed'wazoo11 said:Make more less open sand box games.
TIA.![]()
Plus for all there is to do, you sure get a long list of "chores" you have to complete. GTA4 was riddled with this. I barely made it to the second island before I gave up. Managing friends and girlfriends became a full time job if you wanted to get the perks they offer. Had almost no fun playing the game at certain points.I enjoy open-world games, but Andy has a point. I can't think of any sandbox game that even touches Bioshock or Mass Effect in terms of pacing and story-telling. That's an inherent flaw of the sandbox structure.Surprised you need so much hand holding.I like my games more linear. I can't stand spending 45 minutes having to figure out what I'm supposed to do or where I'm supposed to go before I can go do it. Games like Bioshock and Mass Effect are far superior to ones like Red Dead Redemption or Fallout.What's your ideal game then?'Andy Dufresne said:Fixed'wazoo11 said:Make more less open sand box games.
TIA.![]()
Are you getting Skyrim?I don't know if it's even that. I think there are just too many "side missions" in those open worlds that the main storyline gets lost.I want to play the game, experience the story, and move on to a different game.Plus, in a game like Fallout 3, if you go too far too fast you rapidly become under-equipped and the game gets too hard to be fun.Surprised you need so much hand holding.I like my games more linear. I can't stand spending 45 minutes having to figure out what I'm supposed to do or where I'm supposed to go before I can go do it. Games like Bioshock and Mass Effect are far superior to ones like Red Dead Redemption or Fallout.
No way.Are you getting Skyrim?
I am not a puzzle/platformer typically, but Trine combines the physics-based puzzles/platforming with RPG and fantasy in such a way that makes it very entertaining.looking at this game on youtube and it looks pretty slick. straightfoward but not simple.Almost done with Trine. Very very cool game.
To each their own I guess.IDK, to me it always depended more on the quality of the game's story. Time is certainly an element, but for example, I never bothered with Black Ops single player because I had multiple friends tell me it was terribly frustrating and just felt tacked on. I know I felt it was tacked on for MW2 and just a demo to teach you how to use the many different weapons for multiplayer.
To me, if you want to get more players to finish and more involved in the game make more co-op storylines. Nearly every co-op game I have played the last few years I have finished.MW2 is probable the best combat/war genre single player campaign I have ever played.
Graphically and from an intensity level, I would definitely concede it was awesome. But it was way too short (what was it 6 hours?), far too linear (especially the on-rails shooter sections) and most of the levels were obviously setup to teach you how to use the different weapons and killstreaks (such as the middle america level defending the burger restaurants where you switch between stinger/sentry gun/predator missles) and introduce you to some of the multiplayer maps (favela.)This doesn't take anything away from what was a great game, but it is the multiplayer that makes that series great. Heck, just look at the commercials for Black Ops, great marketing campaign centered entirely around the fun of multiplayer.