bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
I think the lions are clearly headed in the right direction and have stability in the organization.The Vikings? well not so much.
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Vikings in turmoil? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Summer Wheat
- Start date
fatness
Footballguy
Going from 3-7 to 3-3 is a change in the right direction. Firing Childress got rid of a good bit of instability. It's hard to argue either of those 2 things. And it's even harder to argue that Frazier's responsible for Vikings instability, while it's clear he's responsible for 3-3.
Summer Wheat
Footballguy
The coaching staff is a question mark and the Vikings do not have a starting QB.
Phurfur
Footballguy
How will that work out when GB had more injuries and finished with 4 more wins.
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Donnybrook
Footballguy
I am sure Frazier and Vikings will get over the lose when they usurp the Lions for Derek Sherrod in the rookie draft.
simsarge
Footballguy
Aaron Rodgers down?
Phurfur
Footballguy
Adrian Peterson down?
Summer Wheat
Footballguy
The Lions lost their starting QB in the first quarter of the first game. Then lost their backup with a broken arm for four weeks. Easily could have been 9-7 this year.
simsarge
Footballguy
Didn't mean to come accross as a doosh. What I meant was I'd venture Rogers/Favre's play had a lot more to do with their team's success (or lack thereof) than Peterson/Jackson. A guy like Rogers can make up for a lot of short comings at the RB posn and on the injury list.
The Kuhn
Footballguy
It could be argued that Stafford hasn't had enough real game snaps to be considered their first string QB. Hill is their most experienced QB and their wins they got to start their streak were with Stanton as their QB. That's not an excuse.
simsarge
Footballguy
How will that work out when GB had more injuries and finished with 4 more wins.
Aaron Rodgers down?
Adrian Peterson down?
The Lions lost their starting QB in the first quarter of the first game. Then lost their backup with a broken arm for four weeks. Easily could have been 9-7 this year.
It could be argued that Stafford hasn't had enough real game snaps to be considered their first string QB. Hill is their most experienced QB and their wins they got to start their streak were with Stanton as their QB. That's not an excuse.
I think overcoming the adversity of losing your starting QB and/or RB and still having a successful year is more an indicator of the quality of the "Team" as a whole not just the offense or defense. It's hard to put a finger on any one thing to say this or that is the reason the Vikes under achieved. The Packers did lose Grant and Rogers and Matthews for at least parts of the year, but did manage to do enough to make it to the playoffs. The Vikes were by and large healthy this year (Rice is the only one that comes to mind) but didn't. Preseason I thought the two teams were pretty even, by the end, not so much. To me the quality of the players was still even, but the whole of the team was greater than the sum of the parts.
Maybe that's the difference between a team like Minny that captures lighning in a bottle every now and again versus the Patriots.
Aaron Rodgers down?
Adrian Peterson down?
The Lions lost their starting QB in the first quarter of the first game. Then lost their backup with a broken arm for four weeks. Easily could have been 9-7 this year.
It could be argued that Stafford hasn't had enough real game snaps to be considered their first string QB. Hill is their most experienced QB and their wins they got to start their streak were with Stanton as their QB. That's not an excuse.
I think overcoming the adversity of losing your starting QB and/or RB and still having a successful year is more an indicator of the quality of the "Team" as a whole not just the offense or defense. It's hard to put a finger on any one thing to say this or that is the reason the Vikes under achieved. The Packers did lose Grant and Rogers and Matthews for at least parts of the year, but did manage to do enough to make it to the playoffs. The Vikes were by and large healthy this year (Rice is the only one that comes to mind) but didn't. Preseason I thought the two teams were pretty even, by the end, not so much. To me the quality of the players was still even, but the whole of the team was greater than the sum of the parts.
Maybe that's the difference between a team like Minny that captures lighning in a bottle every now and again versus the Patriots.
The Kuhn
Footballguy
Harvin's health is still a concern. I would actually put him on par with Peterson as to who makes this offense 'click'- when he's not in the lineup, they really seem to struggle with opening up the offense.You're also forgetting Griffin blowing out another ACL and some O-line health issues.
fatness
Footballguy
What does that have to do with "As a Lion fan we have to like the Frazier hire"? Really, you've offered nothing in the way of reasons why Frazier's a bad hire besides not looking emotional enough to you on the sideline.
fatness
Footballguy
OK, this explains everything; thanks for connecting the dots, urbanhack. I was wondering what Summer Wheat's objection was to Frazier and that clears it up.Poor fishing attempt by Da Guru.
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Maelstrom
Footballguy
I've said it before, just cause a guy doesn't jump up and down screaming doesn't mean he isn't passionate. People display that in different ways and Frazier doesn't strike me as the jumping up and down screaming type. I do think some of the players kinda mailed it in a bit against the Lions, but there wasn't a whole heck of a lot to play for and they had 3 days rest. There may have been some mitigating factors.
I think people don't realize how much better Favre, at 50%-60%, is over the other two guys. I'm glad Webb got to play and got some experience, and he did surprise me in what he was able to do, but Favre, if able to go, should be the starter. As for wishy-washy, with the kind of injuries he had, it was pretty much a pain tolerance thing for whether he could play (not the concussion, that was doctor(s) making that choice.) If he can go, you go with it. The Vikings definitely looked like a better team with Favre in there against Chicago than when Webb came in. I don't hold those choices against Favre. Interim coaches don't "look to the future" any more than other coaches do - they do what they can to win games. People that call for teams to play the young guys don't get that, I get fumed about it myself sometimes, but the NFL is almost always about what will win the next game, regardless of next year.
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Summer Wheat
Footballguy
I think the lions are clearly headed in the right direction and have stability in the organization.
The Vikings? well not so much.
Going from 3-7 to 3-3 is a change in the right direction. Firing Childress got rid of a good bit of instability. It's hard to argue either of those 2 things. And it's even harder to argue that Frazier's responsible for Vikings instability, while it's clear he's responsible for 3-3.
The coaching staff is a question mark and the Vikings do not have a starting QB.
What does that have to do with "As a Lion fan we have to like the Frazier hire"?
Really, you've offered nothing in the way of reasons why Frazier's a bad hire besides not looking emotional enough to you on the sideline.
Not sure if Frazier is a bad hire, just don`t think he is a good hire. Anytime you make a change it is a ??? Yesterday was bascially the last game of his audition and he came across very indifferent..and I was sitting directly behind the Vikings bench. I was watching how the players reacted. Not much was going on. Thought there would be a whole lot more effort if they wanted to keep their coach.
Frazier is signed and sealed so we will see.
The Vikings? well not so much.
Going from 3-7 to 3-3 is a change in the right direction. Firing Childress got rid of a good bit of instability. It's hard to argue either of those 2 things. And it's even harder to argue that Frazier's responsible for Vikings instability, while it's clear he's responsible for 3-3.
The coaching staff is a question mark and the Vikings do not have a starting QB.
What does that have to do with "As a Lion fan we have to like the Frazier hire"?
Really, you've offered nothing in the way of reasons why Frazier's a bad hire besides not looking emotional enough to you on the sideline.
Not sure if Frazier is a bad hire, just don`t think he is a good hire. Anytime you make a change it is a ??? Yesterday was bascially the last game of his audition and he came across very indifferent..and I was sitting directly behind the Vikings bench. I was watching how the players reacted. Not much was going on. Thought there would be a whole lot more effort if they wanted to keep their coach.
Frazier is signed and sealed so we will see.
DropKick
Footballguy
<- Selfish Rice owner hoping he leaves the sinking Love Boat.
Impending free agent Sidney Rice indicated after Sunday's loss that he is unsure if he'll be back with the Vikings in 2011.
"We haven't even discussed anything about contract," Rice said. "I'm just keeping my ear open and listen to what the team has to say. I don't mind being here. I was drafted here, I love the people here, the fans." Rice showed enough in his return from hip surgery this year that he'll become one of the NFL's highest paid wideouts regardless of where he lands in 2011.
Source: ESPN 1500 Twin Cities
Impending free agent Sidney Rice indicated after Sunday's loss that he is unsure if he'll be back with the Vikings in 2011.
"We haven't even discussed anything about contract," Rice said. "I'm just keeping my ear open and listen to what the team has to say. I don't mind being here. I was drafted here, I love the people here, the fans." Rice showed enough in his return from hip surgery this year that he'll become one of the NFL's highest paid wideouts regardless of where he lands in 2011.
Source: ESPN 1500 Twin Cities
Summer Wheat
Footballguy
That has to be a plus. Not sure it was Chilly mess as much as Farves mess. Frazier seemed to handle Farve the exact same way as Chilly..with kid gloves.Frazier was dealing with the mess Childress left behind. To go 3-3 with the mess he was left with was pretty dam good.
Now he can clean house, bring in his own coaching staff and his own players.
Not having to deal with Favre is an added bonus.
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The Kuhn
Footballguy
That's irrelevant if you are looking in the rear view mirror at the trainwreck you're trying to leave behind. If he doesn't play a whole game, him playing a quarter until he gets his bell rung again helps NO ONE (other than feeding his ego to play more snaps). After Webb's play against the Eagles, it should have been 'Favre is sitting in week 17 period and Webb deserves another look'. Other than Favre himself, I don't think there's many people wishing to see him again next year, so it's time to move on.
snogger
Footballguy
He didn't have much of a choice considering who his other QB's were.. Thanks again Childress.That has to be a plus. Not sure it was Chilly mess as much as Farves mess. Frazier seemed to handle Farve the exact same way as Chilly..with kid gloves.Frazier was dealing with the mess Childress left behind. To go 3-3 with the mess he was left with was pretty dam good.
Now he can clean house, bring in his own coaching staff and his own players.
Not having to deal with Favre is an added bonus.
He was auditioning to get the Head coaching job. Going 3-3 got him the job. If he switched to Webb earlier and went 2-4 or 1-5 Chances are Wilf would have looked else where.Also, to the point about him being "quiet" on the sideline.. He comes from the Tony Dungy type of coaching.. Earn the respect and there is no need to run around screaming at the players.
fatness
Footballguy
They were a distaster and laughingstock under Childress, went 3-7, and then Frazier took over and they went 3-3. You didn't see effort there? And what's up with the "didn't interview well" bit?
Summer Wheat said:
Summer Wheat
Footballguy
And what's up with the "didn't interview well" bit?
Not a "bit" Frazier has interviewed 7 times to be a NFL HC. How well could they have gone?
Not a "bit" Frazier has interviewed 7 times to be a NFL HC. How well could they have gone?
simsarge
Footballguy
Anyone know who beat him out for the 7 interviews? Childress I would suspect is one. How about the rest?
Summer Wheat
Footballguy
McDaniels in Denver and Chan Gailey in Buffalo are two more, I think Sparano in Miami was one. I do know that Seattle used Frazier as a Rooney Rule pawn and hired Carroll.
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urbanhack
Fight The Power!
az_prof
Footballguy
Interviewing well= knowing how to smooze rich, white guys. Frankly, I am not surprised if McGenius interviewed better. Look how much good that did him. Interviewing well is not a good indicator of how good a HC will be. It's simply an indicator of your ability to talk to a certain class of individual who doesn't happen to play football.
Summer Wheat
Footballguy
Mike Tomlin was not considered a top canidate for the Steelers job. Tomlins interview nailed the job. This is a billion dollar business. As with any top job you had better be prepared about how you are going to run this business and interview well.
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Phurfur
Footballguy
I can see you are not in the hiring process. Worker bees usually don't get it.
simsarge
Footballguy
Not calling you out on this, but Mangini must have interviewed well in Cleveland and Sparano in Miami. Holmgren and Parcells are arguably two of the best Football minds out there.
fatness
Footballguy
Pretty obvious from those names that "interviewing well" doesn't necessarily lead to "coaching well". So what exactly was your point about him not interviewing well?
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