Vikings stadium proposal (1 Viewer)

[Bri]

http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/s...cities_football

Vikings propose $1.5 billion Blaine stadium complexBY BOB SHAWPioneer PressWelcome to the Vikings' dream home.

The Minnesota Vikings on Thursday unveiled a proposal for a $1.5 billion stadium complex in Blaine, featuring parks, wetlands, offices, stores and a 250-room hotel.

The project would be one of the biggest ever built in the state — the Mall of America, for example, cost about $950 million to build, in inflation-adjusted dollars.

The 740-acre site includes 260 acres of non-developable wetlands, which would be preserved. The remaining 480 acres would be used for the retractable-roof stadium and surrounding projects.

The stadium alone would cost about $790 million, with the cost split between the team, the state and Anoka County. The team was scheduled to present the plan Thursday night to the Blaine City Council. The presentation was designed to highlight the commitment of team owner Zygi Wilf, who would be investing about $1 billion in the entire project, including the stadium.

Blaine Mayor Tom Ryan liked what he has seen in the plans and predicted future support from the council. "We are pretty unified on this," said Ryan.

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pic at link above

 

[Floyd The Barber]

I grew up in Blaine and that would be a great location. Nothern outlying suburb, right on the interstate, and it would bring back tailgating!

The only problem with preserving the wetlands on-site is, the buildings will run the ducks out, but keep the excro-prodigious Canadian geese around to defecate over everything.

 

[BlueOnion]

This is great for the Vikings. Currently the Gophers and Twins (ahead of the Vikings on the State's priority list) are offering nothing but open palms.

I will be interested to see how this plays out with the new CBA.

 

[thayman]

good for your viking fans....looks like a gorgeous stadium

 

[DoctorDetroit]

good for your viking fans....looks like a gorgeous stadium

No doubt. What is the local talk of this actually being a viable option given voters, local and state officials, and ownership? Would this be just for the Vikings or would the Twins enjoy this stadium also? Vikings fans enjoy their team and when they considered moving a few years ago a lot of neutral fans like me were in awe that anyone would move the Vikings. Hope this comes through.

 

[BlueOnion]

good for your viking fans....looks like a gorgeous stadium

No doubt. What is the local talk of this actually being a viable option given voters, local and state officials, and ownership? Would this be just for the Vikings or would the Twins enjoy this stadium also? Vikings fans enjoy their team and when they considered moving a few years ago a lot of neutral fans like me were in awe that anyone would move the Vikings. Hope this comes through.

Twins are not currently part of the plan.

 

[Boston]

If they were smart they'd leave the roof open during the cold weather months. That's a huge advantage that the Vikes gave up when they left the old stadium.

 

[BlueOnion]

If they were smart they'd leave the roof open during the cold weather months. That's a huge advantage that the Vikes gave up when they left the old stadium.

You obviously don't know what it is like to go to a game in a cold weather environment.

 

[Boston]

If they were smart they'd leave the roof open during the cold weather months.  That's a huge advantage that the Vikes gave up when they left the old stadium.

You obviously don't know what it is like to go to a game in a cold weather environment.

Yeah, it's real toasty in Foxboro in December/January.

 

[BlueOnion]

If they were smart they'd leave the roof open during the cold weather months. That's a huge advantage that the Vikes gave up when they left the old stadium.

You obviously don't know what it is like to go to a game in a cold weather environment.

Yeah, it's real toasty in Foxboro in December/January.

If the Vikings have an open air stadium, you can remove beer sales (and any potential beverage sale) from any potential revenue stream. Just to cold to keep those items in the liquid state.

 

[BlueOnion]

If they were smart they'd leave the roof open during the cold weather months. That's a huge advantage that the Vikes gave up when they left the old stadium.

You obviously don't know what it is like to go to a game in a cold weather environment.

Yeah, it's real toasty in Foxboro in December/January.

Quick question for you then. When was the last time the temperature in foxboro was -40 for a home game?

 

[Boston]

If they were smart they'd leave the roof open during the cold weather months.  That's a huge advantage that the Vikes gave up when they left the old stadium.

You obviously don't know what it is like to go to a game in a cold weather environment.

Yeah, it's real toasty in Foxboro in December/January.

If the Vikings have an open air stadium, you can remove beer sales (and any potential beverage sale) from any potential revenue stream. Just to cold to keep those items in the liquid state.

Something says this isn't much of an issue in Green Bay, Foxboro and Pittsburgh which just happen to be three of the better homefield advantages in recent NFL history. At the end of the day if Minny plays outdoors they will be a far more difficult team to beat at home at the end of the year. Add in a few extra wins due to this advantage and you're looking at potential playoff games in Minny which translates to more revenue than they currently are seeing.

 

[Boston]

If they were smart they'd leave the roof open during the cold weather months.  That's a huge advantage that the Vikes gave up when they left the old stadium.

You obviously don't know what it is like to go to a game in a cold weather environment.

Yeah, it's real toasty in Foxboro in December/January.

Quick question for you then. When was the last time the temperature in foxboro was -40 for a home game?

Since I don't live in the Arrtic circle...never.Quick question for you. When Minny made all their Super Bowl visits what type of stadium did they play in?

 

[BlueOnion]

If they were smart they'd leave the roof open during the cold weather months. That's a huge advantage that the Vikes gave up when they left the old stadium.

You obviously don't know what it is like to go to a game in a cold weather environment.

Yeah, it's real toasty in Foxboro in December/January.

If the Vikings have an open air stadium, you can remove beer sales (and any potential beverage sale) from any potential revenue stream. Just to cold to keep those items in the liquid state.

Something says this isn't much of an issue in Green Bay, Foxboro and Pittsburgh which just happen to be three of the better homefield advantages in recent NFL history. At the end of the day if Minny plays outdoors they will be a far more difficult team to beat at home at the end of the year. Add in a few extra wins due to this advantage and you're looking at potential playoff games in Minny which translates to more revenue than they currently are seeing.

I agree, but you nor I are season ticket holders for Minnesota. Even Green Bay is a good 50 miles further south than the Twin Cities and I think their coldest home game was the Saturday Night home game against the Falcons, but I don't think that was any colder than -10.

 

[BlueOnion]

If they were smart they'd leave the roof open during the cold weather months. That's a huge advantage that the Vikes gave up when they left the old stadium.

You obviously don't know what it is like to go to a game in a cold weather environment.

Yeah, it's real toasty in Foxboro in December/January.

Quick question for you then. When was the last time the temperature in foxboro was -40 for a home game?

Since I don't live in the Arrtic circle...never.Quick question for you. When Minny made all their Super Bowl visits what type of stadium did they play in?

-40 degrees and most fans had to sneak in hard liquor so they could have none frozen drinks.

 

[Boston]

If they were smart they'd leave the roof open during the cold weather months.  That's a huge advantage that the Vikes gave up when they left the old stadium.

You obviously don't know what it is like to go to a game in a cold weather environment.

Yeah, it's real toasty in Foxboro in December/January.

Quick question for you then. When was the last time the temperature in foxboro was -40 for a home game?

Since I don't live in the Arrtic circle...never.Quick question for you. When Minny made all their Super Bowl visits what type of stadium did they play in?

-40 degrees and most fans had to sneak in hard liquor so they could have none frozen drinks.

If it were like that for every game I could see it being a major problem. Yet, you're talking about games at the end of the year (i.e. crunch time) and the playoffs where this could occur and if it pushes Minny to newer heights as a franchise my guess is the faithful will be OK with it.

 

[BlueOnion]

Personally, I live in Jersey now and would love to see the Vikings play outdoors. I think it would be a great home field advantage. But I think it is disengenious (sp??) to really offer an opinion unless you have been to the area and have experienced the cold.

Living in the New York area I have to hear Giant fans talk about their home-field advantage when it is cold. I have to laugh because it rarely gets below 20 degrees and once in a blue moon it gets under 10 degrees. Which is a good 25 to 45 degrees warmer than the Twin Cities.

 

[BlueOnion]

If it were like that for every game I could see it being a major problem. Yet, you're talking about games at the end of the year (i.e. crunch time) and the playoffs where this could occur and if it pushes Minny to newer heights as a franchise my guess is the faithful will be OK with it.

Fair enough and I have not been to the Twin Cities in 5 years so I have forgotten how cold it is. But the last time Minnesota hosted the conference championship game (Atlanta in 1998), it was about -40 degrees. Tailgating was miserable (we basically stayed in the car) and if the game was outdoors, I would have been hard pressed to go into the stadium to watch the game. Just keeping your eyes open is a task in itself in that type of weather.

 

[BlueOnion]

If it were like that for every game I could see it being a major problem.

Every game in late October and on would be at risk. Certainly the risk becomes greater as we get into November and December.

 

[Boston]

Personally, I live in Jersey now and would love to see the Vikings play outdoors.  I think it would be a great home field advantage.  But I think it is disengenious (sp??) to really offer an opinion unless you have been to the area and have experienced the cold.

Living in the New York area I have to hear Giant fans talk about their home-field advantage when it is cold.  I have to laugh because it rarely gets below 20 degrees and once in a blue moon it gets under 10 degrees.  Which is a good 25 to 45 degrees warmer than the Twin Cities.

I'm basing my statements on history. When the Vikes played outdoors they had a huge homfield advantage (as well as some good teams) which helped them to be a dominate NFC power that played in quite a few Super Bowls.Hey, if the people of Minny think it's too cold than they should build a dome. It's what makes them comfortable. Yet, there can't be any doubt that they get a far bigger homefield advantage playing outdoors.

 

[Boston]

If it were like that for every game I could see it being a major problem.

Every game in late October and on would be at risk. Certainly the risk becomes greater as we get into November and December.

It's not -40 in November or late October. It gets cold but it's not the Yukon Territory.

 

[BlueOnion]

If it were like that for every game I could see it being a major problem.

Every game in late October and on would be at risk. Certainly the risk becomes greater as we get into November and December.

It's not -40 in November or late October. It gets cold but it's not the Yukon Territory.

Not saying it would be, just saying it could be.

 

[BlueOnion]

I am just saying it is considerably colder in Blaine, MN than Boston, MA.

Boston, MA

Windchill: 13 °F / -11 °C

Blaine, MN

Windchill: -14 °F / -25 °C

We are talking about 27 °F and -13 °C temperature swing.

Edited to add:

Charlotte, NC

Windchill: 35 °F / 2 °C

Relatively speaking, the temperature drop from Charlotte, NC to Boston, MA today is far less than the drop off from Boston, MA to Blaine, MN.

So as a Bostonian, if you want to consider Charlotte NC a relatively 'warm climate', than you have to allow those in Blaine, MN to consider Boston a relatively 'warm climate'.

 

[Boston]

I am just saying it is considerably colder in Blaine, MN than Boston, MA.

Boston, MA

Windchill: 13 °F / -11 °C

Blaine, MN

Windchill: -14 °F / -25 °C

We are talking about 27 °F and -13 °C temperature swing.

It's mid-February...the dead of winter. Show me October-December if you have that data. Again, there's no doubt that some guys will be brutal. Yet, not all and the ones that are will be a huge advantage to Minny.

 

[Boston]

I am just saying it is considerably colder in Blaine, MN than Boston, MA.

Boston, MA

Windchill: 13 °F / -11 °C

Blaine, MN

Windchill: -14 °F / -25 °C

We are talking about 27 °F and -13 °C temperature swing.

Edited to add:

Charlotte, NC

Windchill: 35 °F / 2 °C

Relatively speaking, the temperature drop from Charlotte, NC to Boston, MA today is far less than the drop off from Boston, MA to Blaine, MN.

So as a Bostonian, if you want to consider Charlotte NC a relatively 'warm climate', than you have to allow those in Blaine, MN to consider Boston a relatively 'warm climate'.

Wouldn't it make sense to than note that if Minny played the Panthers they would have a tremendous homefield advantage?

 

[BlueOnion]

Wouldn't it make sense to than note that if Minny played the Panthers they would have a tremendous homefield advantage?

We are not disagreeing on this. We are disagreeing on the comparison of Boston, MA to Blaine, MN. On this relative scale I am not considering Boston, MA a cold weather city, which you opted to disagree with me on.

 

[Boston]

Wouldn't it make sense to than note that if Minny played the Panthers they would have a tremendous homefield advantage?

We are not disagreeing on this. We are disagreeing on the comparison of Boston, MA to Blaine, MN. On this relative scale I am not considering Boston, MA a cold weather city, which you opted to disagree with me on.

Boston is absolutely a cold weather city...it's just not as cold as Minnesota.If Boston isn't a cold weather than there's something very odd about what's going on outside right now.

 

[BlueOnion]

Wouldn't it make sense to than note that if Minny played the Panthers they would have a tremendous homefield advantage?

We are not disagreeing on this. We are disagreeing on the comparison of Boston, MA to Blaine, MN. On this relative scale I am not considering Boston, MA a cold weather city, which you opted to disagree with me on.

Boston is absolutely a cold weather city...it's just not as cold as Minnesota.If Boston isn't a cold weather than there's something very odd about what's going on outside right now.

I said relatively speaking. Blaine, MN isn't a cold weather city relative to the North Pole.

 

[Boston]

Wouldn't it make sense to than note that if Minny played the Panthers they would have a tremendous homefield advantage?

We are not disagreeing on this. We are disagreeing on the comparison of Boston, MA to Blaine, MN. On this relative scale I am not considering Boston, MA a cold weather city, which you opted to disagree with me on.

Boston is absolutely a cold weather city...it's just not as cold as Minnesota.If Boston isn't a cold weather than there's something very odd about what's going on outside right now.

I said relatively speaking. Blaine, MN isn't a cold weather city relative to the North Pole.

We'll have to leave it here. It's homefield advantage v. fan comfort. We see it two different ways. In the end it's whatever they decide in Minny.

 

[Dreamer]

Wouldn't it make sense to than note that if Minny played the Panthers they would have a tremendous homefield advantage?

We are not disagreeing on this. We are disagreeing on the comparison of Boston, MA to Blaine, MN. On this relative scale I am not considering Boston, MA a cold weather city, which you opted to disagree with me on.

Boston is absolutely a cold weather city...it's just not as cold as Minnesota.If Boston isn't a cold weather than there's something very odd about what's going on outside right now.

Have you ever been to Minnesota?

 

[BlueOnion]

Wouldn't it make sense to than note that if Minny played the Panthers they would have a tremendous homefield advantage?

We are not disagreeing on this. We are disagreeing on the comparison of Boston, MA to Blaine, MN. On this relative scale I am not considering Boston, MA a cold weather city, which you opted to disagree with me on.

Boston is absolutely a cold weather city...it's just not as cold as Minnesota.If Boston isn't a cold weather than there's something very odd about what's going on outside right now.

I said relatively speaking. Blaine, MN isn't a cold weather city relative to the North Pole.

We'll have to leave it here. It's homefield advantage v. fan comfort. We see it two different ways. In the end it's whatever they decide in Minny.

We agree. I want them to have an outdoor stadium as well. Heck, I wouldn't care if they played their home games at the North Pole in an outdoor stadium because I acknowledge that the liklihood of me being a season ticket holder in Minnesota are pretty slim (I live in Jersey). But I also acknowledge that watching an outdoor game in Charlotte is far more enjoyable than watching an outdoor game in New England. And I also acknowledge that watching an outdoor game in New England would be far more enjoyable than watching an outdoor game in Blaine, MN.

 

[Boston]

Wouldn't it make sense to than note that if Minny played the Panthers they would have a tremendous homefield advantage?

We are not disagreeing on this. We are disagreeing on the comparison of Boston, MA to Blaine, MN. On this relative scale I am not considering Boston, MA a cold weather city, which you opted to disagree with me on.

Boston is absolutely a cold weather city...it's just not as cold as Minnesota.If Boston isn't a cold weather than there's something very odd about what's going on outside right now.

Have you ever been to Minnesota?

Have not been to MInny but being an ex-puck player I've been further north in Canada during the winter months....and I agree it's not pleasant...which is why the homefield advantage is so large.

 

[Boston]

Gotta run...time to do the errands/family stuff. Don't want you to think I bailed out of the post.

Good discussion.

 

[BlueOnion]

Gotta run...time to do the errands/family stuff. Don't want you to think I bailed out of the post.

Good discussion.

Fair enough. Hopefully some Viking season ticket holders could chime in and offer their two cents, it would far outweigh our opinions.

 

[BlueOnion]

Gotta run...time to do the errands/family stuff. Don't want you to think I bailed out of the post.

Good discussion.

Side note - Apparently it is not that cold in Boston today in which the city has mandated nobody leave their homes.

 

[RandyDB]

Just for information purposes...............

The long-term (1895-2005) average December temperature for Minnesota is 14.4 degrees Fahrenheit.

The long-term (1895-2005) average January temperature for Minnesota is 8.0 degrees Fahrenheit.

The long-term (1895-2005) average February temperature for Minnesota is 12.8 degrees Fahrenheit.

The normal average January temperature for Boston is 29.3 degrees

 

[Polyethylene Bag]

We'll have to leave it here. It's homefield advantage v. fan comfort. We see it two different ways. In the end it's whatever they decide in Minny.

I just want to add that, being a Minnesota native, there are days where it's more of a safety issue than comfort issue. That's the real difference between Minnesota cold and East coast cold. Frostbite can occur relatively quickly on most Jan days. I would not be willing to lose a finger/ear/toe to see the Vikings play outside.

 

[Dreamer]

Gotta run...time to do the errands/family stuff. Don't want you to think I bailed out of the post.

Good discussion.

I don't know how best to explain how much colder it is, the #s don't really seem to do it justice. It's just a different level of cold. The term "bitter cold" really takes on a new meaning.

 

[BigJim®]

I think fans would get used to the colder air, and the picture makes it look semi-enclosed anyway to block out most of the wind. Only very rarely would the temps w/o wind get too crazy. What they desparately need is to develop tailgating space. What they have at the Dome for tailgating is ridiculous.

 

[Yah_Shoor_Yoobetchya]

How can it be a home field advantage when most of the Vikings skill players played their college ball in places like Florida, Louisiana, Nevada, N & S Carolina? More than half of their entire current roster played college ball in what can be considered non-cold weather states.

The claim of having home field advantage based on them playing in an open air stadium holds no water with me.

 

[mosesberg]

I am from Minnesota and share season tickets.

If we got an outdoor stadium I wouldnt go during the cold months.

I hate the cold.

Remember the Met stadium and it was brutal COLD!

Give me a new dome stadium.

 

[FunkyPlutos]

I think that with free agency and players changing teams all the time, that the cold weather factor isn't what it used to be. It is not fun to watch the game in the cold (especially with a family), I hope they don't go open air.

 

[BigJim®]

I am from Minnesota and share season tickets.

If we got an outdoor stadium I wouldnt go during the cold months.

I hate the cold.

Remember the Met stadium and it was brutal COLD!

Give me a new dome stadium.

Everyone is entitled to sit at home. When I say fans will accept the cold temps, I mean: for everyone like you who drops there will be 10 waiting to buy a ticket to an authentic football experience. If they can fill the god awful dome they should easily have a waiting list outdoors.

 

[Floyd The Barber]

It's a homefield advantage because the home team has been gradulally acclimating to the weather all fall, while warm weather teams become preoccupied with it when they have to go north.

Perfect example: the mid-70's LA Rams. They would come north with the better team and invariably lose.

And as a Viking fan who attended games at the old Met, I can tell you the ice cold December games were a treat. The pregame tailgating with the liqour flowing freely. And it the ####### who couldn't cut it not showin up so we could lay claim to their seats on the 50. Nice!

 

[Polyethylene Bag]

I am from Minnesota and share season tickets.

If we got an outdoor stadium I wouldnt go during the cold months.

I hate the cold.

Remember the Met stadium and it was brutal COLD!

Give me a new dome stadium.

Everyone is entitled to sit at home. When I say fans will accept the cold temps, I mean: for everyone like you who drops there will be 10 waiting to buy a ticket to an authentic football experience. If they can fill the god awful dome they should easily have a waiting list outdoors.

I agree that it would not be difficult to fill a new open air stadium in the cold, but I disagree that there would be more people wanting to go. The only people that would go would be drunk males in their hunting outfits. No children, no women, no casual fans. It would be fun to watch on TV though.

 

[Maelstrom]

The remaining 480 acres would be used for the retractable-roof stadium and surrounding projects.

Not sure where all this talk of an open-air stadium is coming from. The article clearly states retractable roof, and I would guess that the outside air temp would play a big part in whether it was open for the game or not. And it WOULD be closed in those bitter cold days, guaranteed. Too much too lose both in terms of fans not coming to the games and possible frostbite, etc. cases.Besides, if they even want a chance at getting a Superbowl (not saying it's a likely chance), it has be to able to be enclosed.

They would be able to open if for the Sept. Oct. games, maybe even a couple in Nov. to get some home field advantage then, but my guess is most Dec. games would be played with the roof closed.

 

[BigJim®]

The only people that would go would be drunk males in their hunting outfits. No children, no women, no casual fans. It would be fun to watch on TV though.

All due respect I think this is wrong. There are several NFL stadiums that get frigid and most of these teams have full fanbase following, not hunters conventions. The weather in GB is a good comparison. I don't disagree you may get more young males but the twin cities and surrounding suburbs will produce that without bussing in hunters. IMHO A new stadium would generate a much more energetic following.

 

[Polyethylene Bag]

The only people that would go would be drunk males in their hunting outfits.  No children, no women, no casual fans.  It would be fun to watch on TV though.

All due respect I think this is wrong. There are several NFL stadiums that get frigid and most of these teams have full fanbase following, not hunters conventions. The weather in GB is a good comparison. I don't disagree you may get more young males but the twin cities and surrounding suburbs will produce that without bussing in hunters. IMHO A new stadium would generate a much more energetic following.

Have you seen a GB game in December? Bright Orange and camouflage as far as the eye can see. No, the Twin Cities isn't GB but Blaine is closer to the country than it is to the city.

 

[simsarge]

The only people that would go would be drunk males in their hunting outfits.  No children, no women, no casual fans.  It would be fun to watch on TV though.

All due respect I think this is wrong. There are several NFL stadiums that get frigid and most of these teams have full fanbase following, not hunters conventions. The weather in GB is a good comparison. I don't disagree you may get more young males but the twin cities and surrounding suburbs will produce that without bussing in hunters. IMHO A new stadium would generate a much more energetic following.

True dat...as long as there's a winning team on the field. If its week 16 and the vikes are playing Detroit (Dome Team) for the division title and it's 19 degrees, Open roof or not, the seats are full. If it's week 16 and they're 3 games out and playing the Lions and it's an open roof and 19 degrees, fuhgetaboutit.

Also as previously noted, no dome, no maybe Super Bowl. I remember all the whining about Detroit this year.

Noticeably absent from the proposal however is a marina.

 

[BlueOnion]

Just for information purposes...............

The long-term (1895-2005) average December temperature for Minnesota is 14.4 degrees Fahrenheit.

The long-term (1895-2005) average January temperature for Minnesota is 8.0 degrees Fahrenheit.

The long-term (1895-2005) average February temperature for Minnesota is 12.8 degrees Fahrenheit.

The normal average January temperature for Boston is 29.3 degrees

I assume these numbers were taken without the wind chill.