Vikings stadium proposal (1 Viewer)

[Bri]

Just for information purposes...............

The long-term (1895-2005) average December temperature for Minnesota is 14.4 degrees Fahrenheit.

The long-term (1895-2005) average January temperature for Minnesota is 8.0 degrees Fahrenheit. 

The long-term (1895-2005) average February temperature for Minnesota is 12.8 degrees Fahrenheit.

The normal average January temperature for Boston is 29.3 degrees

I assume these numbers were taken without the wind chill.

regardless that's really cold.I live in a cold area of NY and well that's crazy. We probably average 20.

8 degrees and 14 degrees seem like a ton less than 20, not just 6 and 12 less. I don't think you understand just how much 1 degree less is until ya live in cold weather.

BTW It's an abnormally low -14 outside right now and it's a nightmare.

 

[Bri]

If it were like that for every game I could see it being a major problem. Yet, you're talking about games at the end of the year (i.e. crunch time) and the playoffs where this could occur and if it pushes Minny to newer heights as a franchise my guess is the faithful will be OK with it.

there's a point that the cold becomes too much IMO. I would think Minny in January crosses that imaginary line. As you know, there's alot more to homefield advantage than temp. Rams were "the fastest team on turf" and clearly were fast on their home turf. Kansas City is deafenning the 12th man is so loud. The home team doesn't travel and practices in familiar surroundings. etc

The Vikes can get an advantage by putting out a quality product that makes the fans cheer. That's the bottom line IMO.

re-the tailgating

What do you have in mind? If it were "that cold" I'd grab a hot dog from a vendor before I'd BBQ it. I sure wouldn't want to sit there sipping a cold one. BBQs give off so much smoke it couldn't be indoors unless they had some fancy vent system, right? It interesting, I wonder what ideas are out there

The Cardinals('nother thread here) spent a ton of money designing a park to tailgate in. While an outside park probably wouldn't "fly" in Minny, it's not unheard of now that a team spends tons of $ for tailgating folks.

 

[Muahahaha]

I remember as a kid going to outdoor games at the Met. I think I almost lost a few toes. #######g miserable. I'm on the season ticket list & if they played open air games, I would remove myself from the list.

Minnesota is cold in a way that people from the rest of the country have no idea. It is not uncommon in December to drive to the grocery store and see a parking lot full of empty cars with their engines on because people are afraid they won't be able to restart their cars if they turn 'em off.

I went to college in Wisconsin. It was like a different climate zone. On trips home, I would notice a snow line right around Eau Claire. Chicago is toasty by comparison.

I now live in Jersey and every time I check the weather in Minny, it is almost always 20 degrees colder. I feel like Jersey's worst in the winter is basically like Minny in early November or March. There is just another degree of winter that Minny gets to that the rest of the country doesn't touch.

Boston is right about the home field advantage. But it would be hard to fill the place past Thanksgiving. I would also think that there might be some free agent impact. The retractable roof is an acknowledgement of this. It really is a requirement.

 

[BlueOnion]

I sure wouldn't want to sit there sipping a cold one.

I think this is what scares the owners.

 

[Wreckincrew]

As a 20 year Minnesota resident and Vikings season ticket holder I will weigh in on this issue.

Point #1: As romantic as the "football is meant to be played in the elements" and "home field advantage" ideas are they will never be able to overcome the underlying thread that drives all NFL owners. MONEY!

The reason the Vikings are seeking a new stadium is money. The three main things the Metrodome can't supply are:

A: Parking revenue (all lots are owned by others, including a large amount by the Minneapolis Star-Tribune)

#2: Club seats (these are seats that have all the amenities of a suite without requiring having 20 people with you) they are typically around $500 apiece.

D: Upgraded concessions to sell you different stuff at three times the normal price compared to the regular stuff at three times the normal price.

In order to get more money the Vikings need to extract it from the people that have the most of it (i.e.: corporations, wealthy people with disposable income (of which the majority are older), etc... The amount of corporate owned QUALITY (between the 20's- lower deck and first 10 rows upper deck) season tickets is staggering. I am in the 25th row on the 32 yard line and of the seats within 4 rows in front and behind and 10 seats in both directions (appx. 250 seats) I see roughly 60-80 familiar faces each game. When I ask the non-regulars where they got their tickets they tell me they were given to them through work (70%), given to them by a relative or friend (20%) or scalped (10%). Let's face it, corporate big-wigs, old people and fringe football fans do not want to watch football in 20 below wind chills, much less spend $16.95 on a turkey freschetta delivered to their seat. If the new stadium was open aired they may be able to keep selling out but there would be a lot of empty seats in a non-playoff year December game not paying $30.00 for parking or drinking $7.00 beers.

Point #2 - The 1.5 Billion complex will not be able to survive on 10 dates a year. They need a roof to attract concerts, monster truck shows and religious conventions from late Oct - early April. Being able to say a summer concert will occur "rain or shine" is just a bonus.

Although I have no major qualms with the Metrodome as a football stadium (except for a lack of bathrooms) and that it will add 30 miles to my drive (I believe the proposed site is 15 miles north of downtown Mpls) I hope this project goes through because it will guarantee the team will stay in Minnesota. And as a bonus it will have occured without Billy Joe "Red" McCombs making a penny from it.

 

[BlueOnion]

WreckingCrew -

Could you comment on the weather and what kind of impact an open-air stadium would have? How cold is it outside Metrodome (on average) for home games in November, December and on?

 

[Boston]

Dug up a few articles on this topic. Seems the owner is in favor of an outdoor venue. It would also appear that there's definetly two sides to this issue just like there is in this post. Sounds like there will be strong sentiment from both camps. As someone else mentioned in the end economics as well as being able to actually get it built will dictate what probably happens.

http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/feat...gmiret_vikings/

http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/MIN/8503347

http://vikings.scout.com/2/382696.html

 

[Wreckincrew]

WreckingCrew -

Could you comment on the weather and what kind of impact an open-air stadium would have?  How cold is it outside Metrodome (on average) for home games in November, December and on?

Well, there are varing degrees of cold.November cold - You can survive outside for 4 hours with a winter coat, hat and gloves on 25-30 degrees (10 days a month)

December cold without wind - Isn't so bad if you have good quality warm clothes. Cold enough so that your nose runs 10-15 degrees (10-15 days a month)

December cold with wind - below zero windchills are survivable for short periods but drinking beer is most likely out 10 - 15 degrees, 10-15 MPH wind, windchill at or below zero (5-10 days a month)

January cold without wind - Teens during the day, zero or below at night. Again, dress warm and watch your exposed skin and you will be OK (winter boots, good gloves, hat, parka or snowmobile suit) (10-15 days a month)

January cold with wind - Wind chiils in the 20-30 below. You do not want to be outside for any length of time, especially without the proper clothes. (5-10 days a month) Frostbite is a major concern

Record setting January cold - 40 below at night - 20 below during the day. Cars don't start, schools are closed, door handles break off when you grab them and it actually hurts your lungs when you breath. (once every 5-10 years) STAY INSIDE!

The third link (article by John Holler - A writer for Viking Update) from Boston's post really sums it up best. It is a romantic idea that just doesn't translate to this era of football.

 

[BigJim®]

Well, I'm a little surprised at the Minnesotan reaction in this thread. MAYBE 1 week a year, in January or February, is the weather truly miserable to the extent being conveyed in this thread. I'd say the average high in November-December is around 15-20 degrees, not bad at all IMHO and frankly people wear light coats once they get used to it. Contrary to what others have said, it's absolutely comperable to Green Bay. After reading initial reactions in this thread I asked my wife (by no mean a tomboy) if she'd watch football outdoors and her reacton was "yes, but they'd probably become too expensive." So at least for her, cost is the only thing that would matter and her impression is an outdoor stadium would run up ticket prices due to demand. As far as beer sales go, I've tailgated sub 20 games in Wisconsin and Iowa and the beer tastes just fine thank you. Couldn't get enough of it in fact.

 

[reg]

Just for information purposes...............

The long-term (1895-2005) average December temperature for Minnesota is 14.4 degrees Fahrenheit.

The long-term (1895-2005) average January temperature for Minnesota is 8.0 degrees Fahrenheit. 

The long-term (1895-2005) average February temperature for Minnesota is 12.8 degrees Fahrenheit.

The normal average January temperature for Boston is 29.3 degrees

I assume these numbers were taken without the wind chill.

Hard to compare wind chills as they recalculated it a few years ago. Old vs New

 

[reg]

Well, I'm a little surprised at the Minnesotan reaction in this thread. MAYBE 1 week a year, in January or February, is the weather truly miserable to the extent being conveyed in this thread. I'd say the average high in November-December is around 15-20 degrees, not bad at all IMHO and frankly people wear light coats once they get used to it. Contrary to what others have said, it's absolutely comperable to Green Bay. After reading initial reactions in this thread I asked my wife (by no mean a tomboy) if she'd watch football outdoors and her reacton was "yes, but they'd probably become too expensive." So at least for her, cost is the only thing that would matter and her impression is an outdoor stadium would run up ticket prices due to demand. As far as beer sales go, I've tailgated sub 20 games in Wisconsin and Iowa and the beer tastes just fine thank you. Couldn't get enough of it in fact.

Agreed. I moved from Northern Minnesota to the Cities, and the temperatures being related in this thread are more from that area than down here. Seems maybe 1 or 2 days a year it gets brutally cold down here.

 

[Maelstrom]

If it were like that for every game I could see it being a major problem. Yet, you're talking about games at the end of the year (i.e. crunch time) and the playoffs where this could occur and if it pushes Minny to newer heights as a franchise my guess is the faithful will be OK with it.

there's a point that the cold becomes too much IMO. I would think Minny in January crosses that imaginary line. As you know, there's alot more to homefield advantage than temp. Rams were "the fastest team on turf" and clearly were fast on their home turf. Kansas City is deafenning the 12th man is so loud. The home team doesn't travel and practices in familiar surroundings. etc

The Vikes can get an advantage by putting out a quality product that makes the fans cheer. That's the bottom line IMO.

This is important as well. The Metrodome is supposed to be one of the loudest venues in football when it's rocking, and domes in general are supposed to be louder than open air stadiums, I believe. Just cause the roof may be closed in the last couple weeks of the season doesn't mean that you lose your home field advantage. In fact, it may be louder for those games than for earlier season games due to the closed roof.

Although the owner has stated he would be in favor of an open-air stadium, he will bow to economics, which dictate at the least a retractable roof so it can be a dome when needed. The point about concerts, rallies and other events is an important consideration as well.

 

[Polyethylene Bag]

Well, I'm a little surprised at the Minnesotan reaction in this thread. MAYBE 1 week a year, in January or February, is the weather truly miserable to the extent being conveyed in this thread. I'd say the average high in November-December is around 15-20 degrees, not bad at all IMHO and frankly people wear light coats once they get used to it. Contrary to what others have said, it's absolutely comperable to Green Bay. After reading initial reactions in this thread I asked my wife (by no mean a tomboy) if she'd watch football outdoors and her reacton was "yes, but they'd probably become too expensive." So at least for her, cost is the only thing that would matter and her impression is an outdoor stadium would run up ticket prices due to demand. As far as beer sales go, I've tailgated sub 20 games in Wisconsin and Iowa and the beer tastes just fine thank you. Couldn't get enough of it in fact.

Agreed. I moved from Northern Minnesota to the Cities, and the temperatures being related in this thread are more from that area than down here. Seems maybe 1 or 2 days a year it gets brutally cold down here.

I think that the Twin Cities climate has warmed substantially in the sense that there hasn't been an unbearable winter in about 10 years, just a few days here and there. Most people posting how cold it is are no doubt weighing in the brutal winters of the past. However, who's to say the next 10 years won't be the most brutal on memory. The possibility is definitely there.I think the only reason an outdoor stadium is being mentioned by Wilf is that it is much cheaper and would, therefore, be much more likely to have public support. It would be a worst-case scenario but better than nothing.

I think the most important point is that playing outdoors would undoubtedly affect free agency. Players today are too spoiled to want to play in such conditions every week. Overall, an outdoor stadium would be a disadvantage to the Vikings.