Virginia 2nd amendment rally 1/20/20 (2 Viewers)

[Snorkelson]

I think putting a limit of one handgun a month is too restrictive.  I would say three is a more reasonable number, or putting a yearly limit on it. 

I don't want to see a situation where someone buys a handgun (with a background check) and gets to the shooting range and can't handle the gun or doesn't like it and wants a different one, but is now SOL for 30 days.  That puts their safety at risk.  If the concern is stockpilling guns, there are better ways to regulate that IMO. 

I think this is a reasonable concern and hadn’t thought of it from that angle. 

 

[Philo Beddoe]

I think this is a reasonable concern and hadn’t thought of it from that angle. 

Unfortunately they wouldn’t be able to take the gun to a range because they want to ban those too -

“Freshman Del. Dan Helmer is pushing a bill that would ban indoor shooting ranges at offices where there are more than 50 employees. That would include a shooting range at the NRA headquarters, which is located in northern Virginia.”

also

“The bill was authored by Democratic state Sen. John Bell, whose district covers portions of Loudoun and Prince William counties. According to Bell's legislation, outdoor ranges would not be able to operate within 500 yards of any property zoned for residential use unless the Range Design Criteria established by the U.S. Department of Energy's Office of Health, Safety, and Security have been met. 

The bill defines outdoor ranges as “any partially enclosed or unenclosed area or facility designed for the use of rifles, shotguns, pistols, silhouettes, skeet, trap, black powder, or any other similar sport shooting.””

 

[matttyl]

So now I won’t be able to shoot skeet or trap (any clay birds?!) with my Beretta?

 

[sho nuff]

So now I won’t be able to shoot skeet or trap (any clay birds?!) with my Beretta?

Only if the range is in an office of more than 50 people it looked like....or outdoor within 500 yards of residential areas.  Wonder how many places that really has an effect on?

 

[matttyl]

Only if the range is in an office of more than 50 people it looked like....or outdoor within 500 yards of residential areas.  Wonder how many places that really has an effect on?

The second one would be affecting quite a few with the urban sprawl in my area.  500 yards (I assume in any direction?) is a lot of space.  Remember, it reads “property zoned for residential”, not places that already have homes built on it.

 

[sho nuff]

The second one would be affecting quite a few with the urban sprawl in my area.  500 yards (I assume in any direction?) is a lot of space.  Remember, it reads “property zoned for residential”, not places that already have homes built on it.

Perhaps...I don’t know nor do i know the current restrictions that are for safety and noise reasons I would guess.

 

[matttyl]

60k+ people there already.  Amazingly I haven’t heard of any big incidents. 

 

[urbanhack]

The best people 

https://twitter.com/kevinmkruse/status/1219287419893243905?s=21

 

[matttyl]

Perhaps...I don’t know nor do i know the current restrictions that are for safety and noise reasons I would guess.

Just a quick example - if a shooting range were simply one square foot in space, it would need 162 acres around it that isn’t zoned as residential to comply with this.  Since obviously shooting ranges aren’t just one square foot, we could easily be talking about an extra thousand acres of non residential “buffer” space so that the range could still be used.  That simply doesn’t exist in many places.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Isn't this how it is supposed to work? There was an election and consequences. The new minority is getting vocal in an attempt to limit how far the pendulum swings. Democracy isn't always quiet. I just hope folks keep their cool. Some of the messaging from the more extreme edges is disturbing. Anyone trying to push this thing towards violence needs to be taken down lawfully, immediately, and hard.

Yes. I don't know anything about this or what they're trying to support other than a vague pro Gun Right view, but yes, peacefully gathering to support a cause is exactly how it's supposed to work.

Please let's use this thread to discuss it civilly and not to just make fun of the other side we don't agree with. Thanks. 

 

[Joe Bryant]

Anyone shoot anyone yet?

Don't

 

[the moops]

The assault weapons ban is not even a thing now though.

Earlier this week, the Senate Judiciary Committee made waves by killing controversial Senate Bill 16, which would have re-defined and banned assault bills, while passing several other gun bills.

 

[cosjobs]

Gun owners act like the most persecuted group in the history of the country

neck and neck with evangelicals imo

 

[Henry Ford]

I think putting a limit of one handgun a month is too restrictive.  I would say three is a more reasonable number, or putting a yearly limit on it. 

I don't want to see a situation where someone buys a handgun (with a background check) and gets to the shooting range and can't handle the gun or doesn't like it and wants a different one, but is now SOL for 30 days.  That puts their safety at risk.  If the concern is stockpilling guns, there are better ways to regulate that IMO. 

I agree that there are better ways to regulate this, unfortunately most of them I can think of require a registry, which is illegal.  If we could just require registration of firearms, even if it were free to do so, it would in my opinion solve so many problems.

 

[cosjobs]

Wait.....so I can only buy 12 handguns a year?

my link

 

[Snorkelson]

Unfortunately they wouldn’t be able to take the gun to a range because they want to ban those too -

“Freshman Del. Dan Helmer is pushing a bill that would ban indoor shooting ranges at offices where there are more than 50 employees. That would include a shooting range at the NRA headquarters, which is located in northern Virginia.”

also

“The bill was authored by Democratic state Sen. John Bell, whose district covers portions of Loudoun and Prince William counties. According to Bell's legislation, outdoor ranges would not be able to operate within 500 yards of any property zoned for residential use unless the Range Design Criteria established by the U.S. Department of Energy's Office of Health, Safety, and Security have been met. 

The bill defines outdoor ranges as “any partially enclosed or unenclosed area or facility designed for the use of rifles, shotguns, pistols, silhouettes, skeet, trap, black powder, or any other similar sport shooting.””

I read these as

1. You can’t have a gun range in a building where there are a lot of people. Maybe that’s oversimplified but it seems reasonable. 
2. Regulates where outdoor ranges can operate- this also seems common sense to me. It may be overstepping, and perhaps trying to do away with outdoor ranges in favor of a more controlled environment where you know where the bullets end up. Outdoor gun ranges are kind of a nuisance for noise and impossible to regulate where the bullet actually lands. 

 

[cosjobs]

The second one would be affecting quite a few with the urban sprawl in my area.  500 yards (I assume in any direction?) is a lot of space.  Remember, it reads “property zoned for residential”, not places that already have homes built on it.

SInce many rifles have a range of several hundred yards, this seems common sense to me. How close to residential areas are people allowed to hunt deer?

 

[cosjobs]

The best people 

https://twitter.com/kevinmkruse/status/1219287419893243905?s=21

Sorry, that page doesn’t exist!

Why not try a search to find something else?

 

[cosjobs]

Just a quick example - if a shooting range were simply one square foot in space, it would need 162 acres around it that isn’t zoned as residential to comply with this.  Since obviously shooting ranges aren’t just one square foot, we could easily be talking about an extra thousand acres of non residential “buffer” space so that the range could still be used.  That simply doesn’t exist in many places.

weird. 1000 square yards = 2.066116 acres. Someone's math is way off. (maybe mine, I used google)

 

[urbanhack]

What was this? Deleted.

A guy with a gun saying that they were being subjected to “Jim Crow” laws.   

 

[unckeyherb]

A guy with a gun saying that they were being subjected to “Jim Crow” laws.   

And clearly, that one idiot represents the masses at this rally.  

 

[unckeyherb]

Gun owners act like the most persecuted group in the history of the country

No, they don't.  

 

[matttyl]

weird. 1000 square yards = 2.066116 acres. Someone's math is way off. (maybe mine, I used google)

500 yards in every direction from a point would be a circle with the radius of 500 yards.  Area of circle would be pie x 500 yards squared.  Would be 785k square yards.  162 acres, as an acre is 4,840 sq yards.  And that’s a single point.  A decent sized skeet or trap course could itself be hundreds of acres already, before any “buffer”.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

LOL at these guys.  Because someone really needed to combine LARPing with annoying politics.  

 

[matttyl]

SInce many rifles have a range of several hundred yards, this seems common sense to me. How close to residential areas are people allowed to hunt deer?

Never heard of someone being shot from stray bullet from shooting range

 

[matttyl]

I read these as

1. You can’t have a gun range in a building where there are a lot of people. Maybe that’s oversimplified but it seems reasonable. 
 

The only building I know of where this would apply is the NRA building right off 66 in northern va

 

[Snorkelson]

Never heard of someone being shot from stray bullet from shooting range

Google results

 

[cosjobs]

Never heard of someone being shot from stray bullet from shooting range

Here'a just a few form 2016 (and these only include inside the range)

Here’a list for mostly 2016 of death/injuries/suicides:

8/20/16 - North Attleboro, MA 50-year old man

Suicide reported at North Attleboro shooting range, third in four years

8/17/16 - Garner, IA 10-year old boy

10-year-old Iowa boy died in gun range accident, police say

8/9/16 - Philadelphia, PA Young man

Man, 21, Dies in Accidental Shooting at Phila. Gun Range

8/9/16 Towson, MD Man (county officer)

Baltimore County Officer Injured In Shooting Range Accident

8/6/16 - El Reno, OK Man in serious condition after being shot at El Reno gun range

7/31 - Elkton, MD Man

Man wounded in North East-area shooting range mishap

7/4/16 - Sarasota, FL 14-year old boy

Florida teen shot by father at gun range described as one of the safest ever | Fox News

6/12/16 - Laguna Niguel, CA 57-year old man

Laguna Niguel gun instructor accidentally shoots himself before safety class

3/12/16 - Ocala, FL 4 children, 2 men

Four children, two adults injured in gun range accident in Ocala

2/23/16 - Altamont, UT 61-year old man

61-year-old man dies in accidental shooting in Duchesne County | KSL.com

2/20/16 - Snowville, UT 27-year old man

Man killed while target shooting was father of young twins | KSL.com

2/1/16 - Panora, IA 33-year old man

Bagley Man Injured In Shooting Range Accident

1/21/16 - Durban, South Africa Off-duty Police Officer

Popular Durban cop killed in shooting range accident

12/26/15 - La Porte, IN 12-year old boy

Shooting range accident injures 12-year-old

12/24/15 - Poway, CA 12-year old boy

MAN INJURED IN SHOOTING RANGE ACCIDENT

11/28/15 - Case Grande, AZ 13-year old girl

Casa Grande gun-range accident serves as safety reminder

 

[stlrams]

Only if the range is in an office of more than 50 people it looked like....or outdoor within 500 yards of residential areas.  Wonder how many places that really has an effect on?

FWIW - Read somewhere that NRA HQ range is the only one impacted. 

 

[unckeyherb]

Here'a just a few form 2016 (and these only include inside the range)

Here’a list for mostly 2016 of death/injuries/suicides:

8/20/16 - North Attleboro, MA 50-year old man

Suicide reported at North Attleboro shooting range, third in four years

8/17/16 - Garner, IA 10-year old boy

10-year-old Iowa boy died in gun range accident, police say

8/9/16 - Philadelphia, PA Young man

Man, 21, Dies in Accidental Shooting at Phila. Gun Range

8/9/16 Towson, MD Man (county officer)

Baltimore County Officer Injured In Shooting Range Accident

8/6/16 - El Reno, OK Man in serious condition after being shot at El Reno gun range

7/31 - Elkton, MD Man

Man wounded in North East-area shooting range mishap

7/4/16 - Sarasota, FL 14-year old boy

Florida teen shot by father at gun range described as one of the safest ever | Fox News

6/12/16 - Laguna Niguel, CA 57-year old man

Laguna Niguel gun instructor accidentally shoots himself before safety class

3/12/16 - Ocala, FL 4 children, 2 men

Four children, two adults injured in gun range accident in Ocala

2/23/16 - Altamont, UT 61-year old man

61-year-old man dies in accidental shooting in Duchesne County | KSL.com

2/20/16 - Snowville, UT 27-year old man

Man killed while target shooting was father of young twins | KSL.com

2/1/16 - Panora, IA 33-year old man

Bagley Man Injured In Shooting Range Accident

1/21/16 - Durban, South Africa Off-duty Police Officer

Popular Durban cop killed in shooting range accident

12/26/15 - La Porte, IN 12-year old boy

Shooting range accident injures 12-year-old

12/24/15 - Poway, CA 12-year old boy

MAN INJURED IN SHOOTING RANGE ACCIDENT

11/28/15 - Case Grande, AZ 13-year old girl

Casa Grande gun-range accident serves as safety reminder

The 500 yard law that they are passing would have had zero effect on any of these.  

 

[NickyHatton]

Never heard of someone being shot from stray bullet from shooting range

Forensic Files - New Episodes next month!!!

 

[Kal El]

Serious question: does any other gun owner here actually think that a law allowing the government to come into someone's house and confiscate a legally owned firearm(properly obtained, of course) will ever actually pass, or if it does, actually be enforced? I find myself doubtful of such a situation. 

 

[unckeyherb]

Serious question: does any other gun owner here actually think that a law allowing the government to come into someone's house and confiscate a legally owned firearm(properly obtained, of course) will ever actually pass, or if it does, actually be enforced? I find myself doubtful of such a situation. 

Serious question, is that the red line?  No reason to be concerned about ceding rights until that happens? 

To answer your question, no I don't think in this country that will happen, (though it has certainly happened in other democracies).  That doesn't mean that I am the least bit interested in eroding the second amendment up to that point.  

 

[the moops]

The 500 yard law that they are passing would have had zero effect on any of these.  

How did you manage to get through all those articles that quickly and determine that all of these incidents occured within 500 yards?

 

[unckeyherb]

How did you manage to get through all those articles that quickly and determine that all of these incidents occured within 500 yards?

I only had to read the first line of the post:

Here'a just a few form 2016 (and these only include inside the range)

 

[Kal El]

Serious question, is that the red line?  No reason to be concerned about ceding rights until that happens? 

To answer your question, no I don't think in this country that will happen, (though it has certainly happened in other democracies).  That doesn't mean that I am the least bit interested in eroding the second amendment up to that point.  

Why should I oppose laws that should make it harder for criminals to obtain firearms? Why do people feel the need to collect firearms when they're going to be able to shoot maybe two at once, and suffer loss of aim at that?

 

[the moops]

I only had to read the first line of the post:

Gotcha. I thought those would be the same as the links that Snorkelson posted. My bad

 

[unckeyherb]

Why should I oppose laws that should make it harder for criminals to obtain firearms? Why do people feel the need to collect firearms when they're going to be able to shoot maybe two at once, and suffer loss of aim at that?

1.  Because those laws don't make it harder for criminals to obtain firearms.  They make it harder for law-abiding citizens to obtain firearms. 

2.  The second part of your post is not relevant to the topic.  You can have your own opinion about people that do so, and I suspect you do, but it doesn't really hold much sway on potential legislation.

3.  You didn't answer my question.

 

[stlrams]

Why should I oppose laws that should make it harder for criminals to obtain firearms? Why do people feel the need to collect firearms when they're going to be able to shoot maybe two at once, and suffer loss of aim at that?

Are you in favor of clean slate laws for convicted felons?

 

[joffer]

1.  Because those laws don't make it harder for criminals to obtain firearms.  They make it harder for law-abiding citizens to obtain firearms. 

2.  The second part of your post is not relevant to the topic.  You can have your own opinion about people that do so, and I suspect you do, but it doesn't really hold much sway on potential legislation.

3.  You didn't answer my question.

they could achieve both

 

[unckeyherb]

they could achieve both

That would still be bad, IMO.  Even if it were true that criminal access to guns would be curtailed by any of these laws, if a by-product is that my rights are also restricted, I'm not interested.  No different than first amendment.  I wouldn't be interested in "hate-speech" legislation either, regardless of the good willed intent.

 

[PhantomJB]

Google results

Yes. Stray bullets are also a source of major wildfires in the West.

https://www.google.com/search?q=stray+bullet+shooting+range+wildfire&oq=stray+bullet+shooting+range+wildfire&aqs=chrome..69i57j33.8707j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

[Kal El]

1.  Because those laws don't make it harder for criminals to obtain firearms.  They make it harder for law-abiding citizens to obtain firearms. 

2.  The second part of your post is not relevant to the topic.  You can have your own opinion about people that do so, and I suspect you do, but it doesn't really hold much sway on potential legislation.

3.  You didn't answer my question.

It's a weapon, it shouldn't be very easy to get anyway, and the person buying it should be properly trained in its use before buying.

What rights are being ceded? I don't live in Virginia anymore, so I don't know what's on the table.

 

[Kal El]

Are you in favor of clean slate laws for convicted felons?

For nonviolent offenders, sure. They've paid their debt to society. Let them vote, too.

 

[unckeyherb]

It's a weapon, it shouldn't be very easy to get anyway, and the person buying it should be properly trained in its use before buying.

What rights are being ceded? I don't live in Virginia anymore, so I don't know what's on the table.

I don't know what you consider very easy.  I just purchased a M&P shield for CC and had to go thru a background check.  Not unlike my application to conceal carry.  If there were any knocks on my background check, I'd be unable to purchase the gun or to carry one.  

That being said, I'm good with requiring a basic safety class prior to purchasing.  

In the case of the Virginia law, I think the big one is limiting to one-purchase-per-month, in addition to allowing local municipalities further ability to restrict areas where licensed firearms owners can legally carry their firearms.

 

[joffer]

That would still be bad, IMO.  Even if it were true that criminal access to guns would be curtailed by any of these laws, if a by-product is that my rights are also restricted, I'm not interested.  No different than first amendment.  I wouldn't be interested in "hate-speech" legislation either, regardless of the good willed intent.

well, i disagree that it's similar to a first amendment issue, i'd say they are very different.  however i certainly respect that you're not willing to live with con of law-abiding citizens being restricted even if the pro is criminals are restricted.  that would't bother me, but i can see the other side of it.

 

[unckeyherb]

well, i disagree that it's similar to a first amendment issue, i'd say they are very different.  however i certainly respect that you're not willing to live with con of law-abiding citizens being restricted even if the pro is criminals are restricted.  that would't bother me, but i can see the other side of it.

It is different than first amendment, of course; but the point is the same.  They are both rights, inviolable.  

 

[Kal El]

I don't know what you consider very easy.  I just purchased a M&P shield for CC and had to go thru a background check.  Not unlike my application to conceal carry.  If there were any knocks on my background check, I'd be unable to purchase the gun or to carry one.  

That being said, I'm good with requiring a basic safety class prior to purchasing.  

In the case of the Virginia law, I think the big one is limiting to one-purchase-per-month, in addition to allowing local municipalities further ability to restrict areas where licensed firearms owners can legally carry their firearms.

None of that sounds like a bad thing. Like I said, it's a huge responsibility to have one, and several towns in the Old West had people turn in their firearms with the marshal, or so I've heard. That being said, I'll take a jail sentence if it means that I kept my friends or family safe.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Peaceful demonsters pushing for what they believe is right.  Disagree with them on what should happen, but GB America.

 

[stlrams]

For nonviolent offenders, sure. They've paid their debt to society. Let them vote, too.

Listing of some non-violent felonies - larceny, Arson, Burglary, Drug mfg/sale,  grand larceny, grand theft, child porn, threatening officer, extortion.  So you're good with allowing anyone of a non-violent crime to purchase firearms - correct?