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Virginia 2nd amendment rally 1/20/20 (3 Viewers)

Kal El said:
None of that sounds like a bad thing. Like I said, it's a huge responsibility to have one, and several towns in the Old West had people turn in their firearms with the marshal, or so I've heard. That being said, I'll take a jail sentence if it means that I kept my friends or family safe.
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I didn't say its a bad thing.  Background checks are necessary and implemented.  I was just responding to the comment that guns shouldn't be very easy to get.  They aren't.  Not sure what you mean by the last sentence.

 
unckeyherb said:
I didn't say its a bad thing.  Background checks are necessary and implemented.  I was just responding to the comment that guns shouldn't be very easy to get.  They aren't.  Not sure what you mean by the last sentence.
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That was in reference to the local municipalities outlawing legal carry, if something went sideways.

 
stlrams said:
Listing of some non-violent felonies - larceny, Arson, Burglary, Drug mfg/sale,  grand larceny, grand theft, child porn, threatening officer, extortion.  So you're good with allowing anyone of a non-violent crime to purchase firearms - correct? 
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Most of those are about stealing stuff, not shooting people(child porn purveyors need a lot of help, like a one way trip into the Sun). How is threatening an officer nonviolent, though? But if they've served their time, why shouldn't they get a second chance to make things right?

 
unckeyherb said:
meaning you'd still carry in the face of a ban?  Just making sure I'm reading you correctly.
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It's a possibility for me. Here in Florida, I don't know of any cities trying this, but if I'm traveling, I might not be up on the local laws, and I will defend my family if the situation, however unlikely, arises.

 
Kal El said:
Idea: if you don't want it said about/done to you or someone you like, best not to say/do it to someone else.
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Too much subjectivity to make that the basis for anything.  How about anyone can say what they want and others can choose to ignore it or present a better case against it?  

 
Kal El said:
Most of those are about stealing stuff, not shooting people(child porn purveyors need a lot of help, like a one way trip into the Sun). How is threatening an officer nonviolent, though? But if they've served their time, why shouldn't they get a second chance to make things right?
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Threatening people is a non-violent crime.  How is allowing them to purchase firearms making things right?   

 
stlrams said:
Threatening people is a non-violent crime.  How is allowing them to purchase firearms making things right?   
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Frankly, I'm still puzzled at why threatening someone isn't a violent crime, that makes no sense to me. My point is, if someone has paid their debt to society and has shown efforts to alter their behavior, why shouldn't they get a second chance? I'm in no way saying to hand them a pistol with their stuff as they're walking out the prison gate, but continued punishment after paying a societal debt seems unfair.

 
Philo Beddoe said:
Unfortunately they wouldn’t be able to take the gun to a range because they want to ban those too -

“Freshman Del. Dan Helmer is pushing a bill that would ban indoor shooting ranges at offices where there are more than 50 employees. That would include a shooting range at the NRA headquarters, which is located in northern Virginia.”

also

“The bill was authored by Democratic state Sen. John Bell, whose district covers portions of Loudoun and Prince William counties. According to Bell's legislation, outdoor ranges would not be able to operate within 500 yards of any property zoned for residential use unless the Range Design Criteria established by the U.S. Department of Energy's Office of Health, Safety, and Security have been met. 

The bill defines outdoor ranges as “any partially enclosed or unenclosed area or facility designed for the use of rifles, shotguns, pistols, silhouettes, skeet, trap, black powder, or any other similar sport shooting.””
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You understand these bills were introduced because outdoor ranges in Loudoun have a tendency to shoot people's houses, right?

Buffington said at a May 17 meeting that two of the three homes hit by bullets had residents that were within 10 feet from where the rounds struck.
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Henry Ford said:
You understand these bills were introduced because outdoor ranges in Loudoun have a tendency to shoot people's houses, right?
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Sure. I’m not an idiot. But, that incident didn’t happen at member range either. It happened on private property which was legal.

“An investigation by the Loudoun County Sheriff’s Office determined the rounds came from weapons – one a machine gun – being fired into a berm by individuals on seven acres of private property on Lenah Road. The sheriff’s office and the Loudoun County commonwealth’s attorney’s office declined to press charges against the property owner because local and state laws allow for the discharge of firearms in that area.“

Also, doesn’t impact indoors. Seems like the bill was introduced to punish the NRA.

 
Philo Beddoe said:
Sure. I’m not an idiot. But, that incident didn’t happen at member range either. It happened on private property which was legal.

“An investigation by the Loudoun County Sheriff’s Office determined the rounds came from weapons – one a machine gun – being fired into a berm by individuals on seven acres of private property on Lenah Road. The sheriff’s office and the Loudoun County commonwealth’s attorney’s office declined to press charges against the property owner because local and state laws allow for the discharge of firearms in that area.“

Also, doesn’t impact indoors. Seems like the bill was introduced to punish the NRA.
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It was introduced to stop people being shot by stray bullets. It may be a bad bill but the county involved has a lack of regulation about these things and people are in danger. 

 
is there legislation proposing the banning of camou, riot gear, and kevlar vests as well?  or is that just for dramatic effect?

 
Henry Ford said:
It was introduced to stop people being shot by stray bullets. It may be a bad bill but the county involved has a lack of regulation about these things and people are in danger. 
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Ok? So what was preventing Loudon  County from passing an ordinance prohibiting a discharge of a firearm on private property? 

 
Philo Beddoe said:
Ok? So what was preventing Loudon  County from passing an ordinance prohibiting a discharge of a firearm on private property? 
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The fact that it would be significantly more restrictive than the ordinances you’re talking about. 
 

That would end all gun ranges.

 
stlrams said:
We had a similar problem near me.  The gun range installed a canopy overhead of shooters so they couldn’t shoot into the air but generally just straight ahead.  
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That might even make it an enclosed shooting range under the regulations and make it technically “indoors.”  That would probably fix things. 

 
Henry Ford said:
The fact that it would be significantly more restrictive than the ordinances you’re talking about. 
 

That would end all gun ranges.
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Sorry I should have been more clear. Basically you can’t shoot a gun in your backyard unless you have x > acreage type of ordinance. Lots of places have those. 

Public ranges are different. They are trying to eliminate those as well as indoor ranges. (Or greatly reduce the amount of them currently operational).

 
Henry Ford said:
That might even make it an enclosed shooting range under the regulations and make it technically “indoors.”  That would probably fix things. 
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FYI this is mostly what I was referencing.

“HB 567 would allow indoor shooting ranges to exist in buildings owned or leased by the state of Virginia or the federal government.

The legislation would also permit an indoor range to operate if at least 90 percent of the people who used it were local, state, or federal law enforcement officers.

The range would be required to verify the identity of each user and keep a log of each shooter’s name, phone number, address, and where they are a law enforcement officer.”

 
Philo Beddoe said:
Sorry I should have been more clear. Basically you can’t shoot a gun in your backyard unless you have x > acreage type of ordinance. Lots of places have those. 

Public ranges are different. They are trying to eliminate those as well as indoor ranges. (Or greatly reduce the amount of them currently operational).
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So, like... you can’t be within 500 yards of other residentially zoned property?

 
Philo Beddoe said:
FYI this is mostly what I was referencing.

“HB 567 would allow indoor shooting ranges to exist in buildings owned or leased by the state of Virginia or the federal government.

The legislation would also permit an indoor range to operate if at least 90 percent of the people who used it were local, state, or federal law enforcement officers.

The range would be required to verify the identity of each user and keep a log of each shooter’s name, phone number, address, and where they are a law enforcement officer.”
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Is that the same ordinance or a separate one also being considered?

 
30-40,000 people with guns

no violence

amazing huh ?  BTW I love, love, LOVE sanctuary 2nd Amendment counties ........ buck State and Federal laws like people did with Marijuana, pass at local levels

 
Kal El said:
Frankly, I'm still puzzled at why threatening someone isn't a violent crime, that makes no sense to me. My point is, if someone has paid their debt to society and has shown efforts to alter their behavior, why shouldn't they get a second chance? I'm in no way saying to hand them a pistol with their stuff as they're walking out the prison gate, but continued punishment after paying a societal debt seems unfair.
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Interesting question. Should a sex offender released from prison be allowed to live next to a school? Allowed to adopt?  These restrictions are a form of punishment.

 
Mister CIA said:
Are you referring to the Sad Banana Brigade?
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1. What’s the point of owning this stuff? This isn’t hunting, or self defense. I mean, I suppose you could hear an intruder and take 10 minutes to do a Commando/Rambo type “arming up” montage while you sheath your knife, tie your bandanna, put a clip in your gun, and put on your tactical vest, before going down, riot shield first, to confront the intruder....but that seems far fetched. 
2. What’s the point of putting on said costume and standing around all day? This is supposed to make people come around to your side of thinking? Next one of these events let’s get a group to make homemade Batman costumes from stuff at your house and stand next to them.

 
unckeyherb said:
And clearly, that one idiot represents the masses at this rally.  
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That's how it works today. Find the most embarrassing picture possible of the "other" side, then your side can smugly high five yourselves about how superior you are and reinforce your bubble you don't think exists. Welcome to 2020. 

 
I like Christian Activist Shane Claiborne very much.

But this kind of thing is not helpful in my opinion.

@ShaneClaiborne

It’s sickening to watch armed white supremacists gather in VA to celebrate their guns... and on the day that we celebrate one of our prophets killed by their guns. But hate will not win.
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People gathered to support gun rights. I don't particularly agree with most of them and I'm in favor or tighter gun regulation. But I'm also 100% in favor of their rights to assemble. 

I think we do ourselves a disservice to label them with generalizations like this. 

 
Joe Bryant said:
I like Christian Activist Shane Claiborne very much.

But this kind of thing is not helpful in my opinion.

@ShaneClaiborne

People gathered to support gun rights. I don't particularly agree with most of them and I'm in favor or tighter gun regulation. But I'm also 100% in favor of their rights to assemble. 

I think we do ourselves a disservice to label them with generalizations like this. 
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It’s tough. There were definitely groups of people who are widely considered to be white supremacists there - and it is therefore correct to comment on gatherings of white supremacists within the general gathering.  Still, it definitely doesn’t come off as a correct take any more than it’s an “incorrect” take. 

 
Joe Bryant said:
I like Christian Activist Shane Claiborne very much.

But this kind of thing is not helpful in my opinion.

@ShaneClaiborne

People gathered to support gun rights. I don't particularly agree with most of them and I'm in favor or tighter gun regulation. But I'm also 100% in favor of their rights to assemble. 

I think we do ourselves a disservice to label them with generalizations like this. 
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They gathered to support gun rights...on Martin Luther King Day, which is the anniversary of the day he was assassinated by a gun. Shane Claiborne didn’t create that irony; he’s only commenting on it. 

Also- your statement that you’re 100% in favor of their rights to assemble- there’s nothing that Claiborne said that would disagree with that. He’s not arguing over their right to assemble, just criticizing them for their decision to do so yesterday. 

 
Tool said:
Interesting question. Should a sex offender released from prison be allowed to live next to a school? Allowed to adopt?  These restrictions are a form of punishment.
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Those I can agree with. I know it's a bit inconsistent.

 
Stealthycat said:
30-40,000 people with guns

no violence

amazing huh ?  BTW I love, love, LOVE sanctuary 2nd Amendment counties ........ buck State and Federal laws like people did with Marijuana, pass at local levels
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Because the counter demostrators were intimidated into not showing up. When you open carry AR's in the street it is straight up intimidation. They spit on the 1st as they defend the 2nd. 

People literally stayed in their homes for fears of violence. Right wingers threatened violence before the rally. 

 
Joe Bryant said:
I like Christian Activist Shane Claiborne very much.

But this kind of thing is not helpful in my opinion.

@ShaneClaiborne

People gathered to support gun rights. I don't particularly agree with most of them and I'm in favor or tighter gun regulation. But I'm also 100% in favor of their rights to assemble. 

I think we do ourselves a disservice to label them with generalizations like this. 
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Do you think they really need all those weaopons at rallies for safety? Or do they serve another purpose? Do they have the right to intimidate those with whom they disagree? 

 
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