Vote for Pro Football Hall of Fame Inductees (1 Viewer)

[cvnpoka]

i think all should go in except sabol, curtis martin and jerome bettis. reed is close but id nix him too.

dont know anything about the old guys so whatever.

 

[Ballstein]

Pro bowls should not be weighted as much as being named All Pro by the writers.

Dawson was named 1st team All-Pro 6 times....damn

 

[Tau837]

My All-Pro info isn't off base. You've simply chosen to ignore the UPI, PFW, SN etc. That's fine, but it's usually a bad idea to copy and paste info from other message forums (your OP). It usually leads to faulty data sets, which is the case here. Roaf has four 1st team AP All-Pro selections. Not three. Pro-Football Reference is wrong. He achieved 1st team status in '94, '95, '03, and '04. This is also a solid indicator of his long term excellence.

I didn't post any data from another message forum, so I'm not sure what you mean by that. I got my data from PFR, which is an excellent reference, and I reference their data all the time. Sorry, but I am not a member of the Associated Press, so I have to get the data from some reference. It turns out that perhaps they had a mistake for 2003 for Roaf's 1st vs. 2nd team All Pro selection.So I went to Wikipedia, and found that source to show Roaf as AP 1st team All Pro in 1994, 1995, 2003, and 2004. However, it also showed that he tied with another tackle in both 2003 and 2004 (i.e., AP chose 3 tackles in both of those seasons).

Besides, if the AP's opinion is the only applicable criteria to measure greatness, then I believe you've reinforced my original point. Willie Roaf earned more Associated Press All-Pro selections than anyone on the list.

He had more total selections but trailed two others in number of first team selections. That's why I said there was no clear advantage over any of them except Faulk. I didn't say no advantage. It's debatable whether Roaf's collective AP selections are better than those of Dawson and Sanders.

 

[Chest Rockwell]

My All-Pro info isn't off base. You've simply chosen to ignore the UPI, PFW, SN etc. That's fine, but it's usually a bad idea to copy and paste info from other message forums (your OP). It usually leads to faulty data sets, which is the case here. Roaf has four 1st team AP All-Pro selections. Not three. Pro-Football Reference is wrong. He achieved 1st team status in '94, '95, '03, and '04. This is also a solid indicator of his long term excellence.

I didn't post any data from another message forum, so I'm not sure what you mean by that. I got my data from PFR, which is normally an excellent reference, and I reference their data all the time. Sorry, but I am not a member of the Associated Press, so I have to get the data from some reference. It turns out that perhaps they had a mistake for 2003.So I went to Wikipedia, and found that source to show Roaf as AP 1st team All Pro in 1994, 1995, 2003, and 2004. However, it also showed that he tied with another tackle in both 2003 and 2004 (i.e., AP chose 3 tackles in both of those seasons).

Besides, if the AP's opinion is the only applicable criteria to measure greatness, then I believe you've reinforced my original point. Willie Roaf earned more Associated Press All-Pro selections than anyone on the list.

He had more total selections but trailed two others in number of first team selections. That's why I said there was no clear advantage over any of them except Faulk. I didn't say no advantage. It's debatable whether Roaf's collective AP selections are better than those of Dawson and Sanders.

For some reason I thought you were responsible for the OP. Please disregard the "cut and paste" comment as it was erroneous on my part to direct it at you. That being said, I felt I needed to overstate the case for Roaf because the lack of recognition for his accomplishments in this thread is startling. The insinuation that Faulk, Sanders, Carter, and Sharpe breathe some sort of rarefied air which is somehow more distinguished and pure than the oxygen Roaf inhales, is just wrong. And as far as the Hall of Fame is concerned, trench guys are always going to have an uphill climb to receive the attention their play warrants. In today's NFL, quarterback is the only position which commands a higher average salary than left tackle. Owners and front offices figured out who the heart of an NFL team was years ago. It's time for Canton to follow suit.

 

[finfansteve]

faulk

sanders

carter

sabol

 

[TheDirtyWord]

I think people really underestimate just how large an impact Ed Sabol has had, not only on pro football, but pro sports altogether.

If you read America's Game by Mike McCambridge, you realize that NFL Films was seen as a visionary tool by Pete Rozelle as a way to market professional football. He had to fight for the owners to continue to fund it's existence because it really was essentially overhead.

But in terms of the way the NFL was able to market itself with the interspersement of musical scores and inside access to teams and players, that type of footage helped the NFL build it's identity in the media age, particularly in an era where color TV was replacing black and white ones. Now think about highlight shows in not just football and other sports...they all include music of some sort. That started with NFL Films.

In essense, the brand of the NFL owes a lot to NFL Films and Ed Sabol. To me, against all the other great players on this list, he deserves entry first.

 

[Grid71]

Deon Sanders

Marshall Faulk

Shannon Sharpe

Dermontti Dawson

Ed Sabol

All of these players were the best at their positions in the NFL in their prime. More importantly, no other players in the league showed the ability to do what they did on the field. Shannon in particular has been vastly under rated. He and Tony Gonzalez helped change the role of the TE. How many centers who ever played in the NFL could do what Dawson did? I hated Sanders, because he played for Dallas, but his play was nothing short of electric. I'm sure you can argue the same for other players listed, but these stand out as being guys who performed better than everyone else at their position.

Ed Sabol is a classy and deserving selection. He should be enshrined in Canton, but it would be better if they didn't take a players spot away to make it so.

 

[Chest Rockwell]

I think people really underestimate just how large an impact Ed Sabol has had, not only on pro football, but pro sports altogether.If you read America's Game by Mike McCambridge, you realize that NFL Films was seen as a visionary tool by Pete Rozelle as a way to market professional football. He had to fight for the owners to continue to fund it's existence because it really was essentially overhead. But in terms of the way the NFL was able to market itself with the interspersement of musical scores and inside access to teams and players, that type of footage helped the NFL build it's identity in the media age, particularly in an era where color TV was replacing black and white ones. Now think about highlight shows in not just football and other sports...they all include music of some sort. That started with NFL Films.In essense, the brand of the NFL owes a lot to NFL Films and Ed Sabol. To me, against all the other great players on this list, he deserves entry first.

Sabol's name would be at the top of my ballot.

 

[thetman]

Faulk, Deion, Sabol, Roaf are no brainers to me.

 

[MarshallRob]

I think people really underestimate just how large an impact Ed Sabol has had, not only on pro football, but pro sports altogether.If you read America's Game by Mike McCambridge, you realize that NFL Films was seen as a visionary tool by Pete Rozelle as a way to market professional football. He had to fight for the owners to continue to fund it's existence because it really was essentially overhead. But in terms of the way the NFL was able to market itself with the interspersement of musical scores and inside access to teams and players, that type of footage helped the NFL build it's identity in the media age, particularly in an era where color TV was replacing black and white ones. Now think about highlight shows in not just football and other sports...they all include music of some sort. That started with NFL Films.In essense, the brand of the NFL owes a lot to NFL Films and Ed Sabol. To me, against all the other great players on this list, he deserves entry first.

Well said. What Sabol accomplished was to mythologize the NFL through his films. Joe Namath in slow motion running off the field with his index finger raised. George Allen pumping up the Redskins ("40 men together can't lose"). Hank Stram masterminding his offense from the sidelines ("65 Toss Power Trap"). The bad boy Oakland Raider teams of the 1970's ("The autumn wind is a Raider"). Lombardi triumphant at the Ice Bowl. John Facenda's narrations. Sam Spence's music. I've never even seen those games I referenced above but thanks to NFL films I feel like I have. Just classic ageless stuff. It's always a shame when someone is selected to receive the game's highest honor but is no longer around to be inducted. Ed Sabol is 94 years old. He should be first on every voters' list this year.

 

[Pope Benedict XVI Fan]

Faulk and Sanders are locks, as Sabol should be but I think he probably won't get in until there is a weak class. Then the final two places between Sharpe, Carter, Dawson and Roaf, who I think are all HoF quality players and should make it in one day, even if it is in 30 years time as a senior inductee.

As for the senior committee players I don't know enough to say.

 

[Sidewinder16]

I think people really underestimate just how large an impact Ed Sabol has had, not only on pro football, but pro sports altogether.If you read America's Game by Mike McCambridge, you realize that NFL Films was seen as a visionary tool by Pete Rozelle as a way to market professional football. He had to fight for the owners to continue to fund it's existence because it really was essentially overhead. But in terms of the way the NFL was able to market itself with the interspersement of musical scores and inside access to teams and players, that type of footage helped the NFL build it's identity in the media age, particularly in an era where color TV was replacing black and white ones. Now think about highlight shows in not just football and other sports...they all include music of some sort. That started with NFL Films.In essense, the brand of the NFL owes a lot to NFL Films and Ed Sabol. To me, against all the other great players on this list, he deserves entry first.

Well said. What Sabol accomplished was to mythologize the NFL through his films. Joe Namath in slow motion running off the field with his index finger raised. George Allen pumping up the Redskins ("40 men together can't lose"). Hank Stram masterminding his offense from the sidelines ("65 Toss Power Trap"). The bad boy Oakland Raider teams of the 1970's ("The autumn wind is a Raider"). Lombardi triumphant at the Ice Bowl. John Facenda's narrations. Sam Spence's music. I've never even seen those games I referenced above but thanks to NFL films I feel like I have. Just classic ageless stuff. It's always a shame when someone is selected to receive the game's highest honor but is no longer around to be inducted. Ed Sabol is 94 years old. He should be first on every voters' list this year.

I agree with everything said regarding Sabol's impact on the NFL and believe he deserves to be in. That being said, contributors just don't normally get a lot of recognition, much less induction.I think there have only been 2 contributors inducted since 2000 (double-checked this; of the 45 non-senior inductions since 2000 only Dan Rooney and Ralph Wilson, Jr. have made it as contributors). There is no retirement restriction for contributors, as there is for players and coaches, so he's been eligible as much as anyone has nominated him (he's been a preliminary nominee every year since at least '05). As far as I can tell, this is the first time Sabol has made it as a finalist (I believe Wilson and Rooney were each 3-time finalists before getting induction). He hasn't even been a semifinalist, at least going back to '04 (can't find any easy info on semifinalists prior to this).Since his "resume" hasn't really changed over the past year or two, maybe the fact that he finally made it as a finalist is evidence that he's got a real shot this year (maybe the voters are thinking along the same lines of "get him in while he's alive" ). But generally speaking, contributors are far from locks.

 

[Orange Crush]

So the collective FBG opinion is that --

Marshall Faulk and Deion Sanders are locks to be inducted this year.

Cris Carter and Shannon Sharpe are clear favorites to make it in.

And, based on a late surge of votes, NFL Films founder Ed Sabol edges out Dermontti Dawson and Willie Roaf for the 5th and final spot among the modern player spots.

Also, neither senior nominee merits induction into the Hall of Fame.

We'll see tomorrow what the sportswriters think.

 

[thatguy]

wow...when I think of a HOF'er.....Tim Brown isn't the first name that comes to mind, but boy he has put up some pretty impressive all-time numbers....Tim Brown, WRPlayed for 17 seasons, made 9 Pro Bowls, but never a 1st team All-Pro, Appeared in 1 Super Bowl but didn't win, Led the NFL 1 year in receptions, 1 year in Kickoff Return Yards and Yards per Kickoff Return, 1 year in Punt Return Yards.Ranks 4th All-time in Receptions (1,094)Ranks 4th All-time in Receiving Yards (14,934)Ranks 6th All-time in Receiving Touchdowns (100)Ranks 17th All-time in Yards from Scrimmage (15,124)Ranks 5th All-time in All-Purpose Yards (19,679)

I think he's just as deserving as Carter, personally. About equal in receptions, more yards, but less TD's (and Brown also has a big advantage in the return game)... However, I think Carter will likely get in first, as he's been pased over 3 times to Brown's 1--not that this should be a deciding factor, but I think it might. Both should, and most likely will, get in sooner rather than later.

 

[thatguy]

13/67 voted for Willie Roaf.

13 of 67. Really?

The bulk of the participants in this thread ought to just leave quietly and never, I mean never take part in a HOF discussion again.

13 out of 67? Embarrassing.

He isn't more deserving than Faulk, Sanders, or Dawson, period. And that only leaves two more spots. IMO he isn't one of the next two most deserving, though that is where it gets more debatable. I think he should and will get inducted in a future class. But to suggest that anyone not voting for him is way off base just shows that you are way off base.

OK. However, he certainly isn't less deserving.

1. Faulk, Sanders, and Dawson each made one NFL All-Decade team. Roaf made two. And, he made the 2000's squad despite retiring after the '05 season. How many players made an All-Decade squad even though they only participated in half the number of applicable seasons? No clue here, but I can't imagine it's more than a handful...if any.

Advantage: Roaf

2. Roaf made the Pro Bowl 11 times and a 9 time All-Pro (6 1st team selections). Faulk was a 7 time Pro Bowl selection and 6 time All-Pro (3 1st team selections). Sanders is credited w/8 Pro Bowls and 8 All-Pro selections (6 time 1st teamer). Dawson made 7 Pro Bowls and was named an All-Pro 6 times (all 1st teamers). It's close, but math is math and more is better.

Advantage: Roaf

3. Roaf was a 1st team All-Pro and Pro Bowl selection the last season he played in the NFL. Dawson was two years removed from any official accreditation for exceptional performance. Faulk and Sanders were unquestionably shells of their former selves by the time they walked away from the game. Roaf dominated until his final snap.

Advantage: Roaf

I agree, Roaf should absolutely get in. My 5 would be Faulk, Sanders, Sharpe, Roaf, and 1 of Carter/Brown. Roaf absolutely belongs in the top 5.

 

[thatguy]

sharpe is known as a receiving TE, but he also blocked for TD's 2000 yeard season and was a key blocker for Jamal Lewis as well. he should get more credit for his blocing.

Agreed. I think because he was on the smaller side for TE's, most people look at him as more of a WR who was labeled as a TE. But he was a very willing and capable blocker. I don't know where or why he got the stigma attached to him that he was a poor blocker. It's simply not true. But, the bottom line is, he retired holding nearly every single career record at the TE position. How has he not made it already on that basis alone?

 

[thatguy]

My All-Pro info isn't off base. You've simply chosen to ignore the UPI, PFW, SN etc. That's fine, but it's usually a bad idea to copy and paste info from other message forums (your OP). It usually leads to faulty data sets, which is the case here. Roaf has four 1st team AP All-Pro selections. Not three. Pro-Football Reference is wrong. He achieved 1st team status in '94, '95, '03, and '04. This is also a solid indicator of his long term excellence.

I didn't post any data from another message forum, so I'm not sure what you mean by that. I got my data from PFR, which is normally an excellent reference, and I reference their data all the time. Sorry, but I am not a member of the Associated Press, so I have to get the data from some reference. It turns out that perhaps they had a mistake for 2003.So I went to Wikipedia, and found that source to show Roaf as AP 1st team All Pro in 1994, 1995, 2003, and 2004. However, it also showed that he tied with another tackle in both 2003 and 2004 (i.e., AP chose 3 tackles in both of those seasons).

Besides, if the AP's opinion is the only applicable criteria to measure greatness, then I believe you've reinforced my original point. Willie Roaf earned more Associated Press All-Pro selections than anyone on the list.

He had more total selections but trailed two others in number of first team selections. That's why I said there was no clear advantage over any of them except Faulk. I didn't say no advantage. It's debatable whether Roaf's collective AP selections are better than those of Dawson and Sanders.

For some reason I thought you were responsible for the OP. Please disregard the "cut and paste" comment as it was erroneous on my part to direct it at you. That being said, I felt I needed to overstate the case for Roaf because the lack of recognition for his accomplishments in this thread is startling. The insinuation that Faulk, Sanders, Carter, and Sharpe breathe some sort of rarefied air which is somehow more distinguished and pure than the oxygen Roaf inhales, is just wrong. And as far as the Hall of Fame is concerned, trench guys are always going to have an uphill climb to receive the attention their play warrants. In today's NFL, quarterback is the only position which commands a higher average salary than left tackle. Owners and front offices figured out who the heart of an NFL team was years ago. It's time for Canton to follow suit.

Trench guys definitely have an uphill climb... Roaf compares very favorably to Gary Zimmerman in a lot of ways--both were 2 time All Decade Team Members, both were 3 times First Team All Pros, Roaf had 11 Pro Bowl appearances to Zimmerman's 7. I think Roaf is a tad more deserving than Zimmerman, but it's very close. And Zimmerman had to wait I think 5 years before finally getting in.

 

[Cookiemonster]

Trench guys definitely have an uphill climb... Roaf compares very favorably to Gary Zimmerman in a lot of ways--both were 2 time All Decade Team Members, both were 3 times First Team All Pros, Roaf had 11 Pro Bowl appearances to Zimmerman's 7. I think Roaf is a tad more deserving than Zimmerman, but it's very close. And Zimmerman had to wait I think 5 years before finally getting in.

Need some more line love in all formats. They never get the credit or recognition deserved. I love fantasy football, but I think that is also helping to bury the O and D line with all the EXTRA attention to skill positions, like they needed more.

 

[dcgangstas]

I'll go with the same guys I thought would get in back in August:

Marshall Faulk

Deion Sanders

Shannon Sharpe

Willie Roaf

Dermontii Dawson (LONG overdue)

Cris Carter

Steve Sabol is way overdue as well. He's the Cecil B. DeMille of Sports.

 

[Tau837]

I'll go with the same guys I thought would get in back in August: Marshall FaulkDeion SandersShannon SharpeWillie RoafDermontii Dawson (LONG overdue)Cris Carter Steve Sabol is way overdue as well. He's the Cecil B. DeMille of Sports.

You have named 7 non-senior candidates. No more than 5 can be inducted in a single class.

 

[Raider Nation]

Announcement show just starting on NFLN.

 

[Raider Nation]

Bettis, Brown, Carter, Doleman and Haley didn't get in.

 

[shadyridr]

Cris Carter didnt even make the top 10? LMFAO what an absolute joke

 

[hammerva]

The idea that Tim Brown is a top 10 contender but Carter isn't a freaking joke. Not that both of them don't deserve to be in there but give me a break

Sucks that the Bus didn't make it over Curtis Martin but I think it is close

 

[hammerva]

Can this process be more confusing? I mean up and down votes but not technically in?

Shannon Sharpe a top 5?

 

[N Zone]

HOF 2011 Class of Enshrinees:

Ed Sabol

Marshall Faulk

Deion Sanders

Richard Dent

Shannon Sharpe

Chris Hanburger

Les Richter

 

[Raider Nation]

Prime was a no-brainer. Really glad Sabol got in.

 

[Raider Nation]

The idea that Tim Brown is a top 10 contender but Carter isn't a freaking joke.

They both got eliminated when the list went from 15-10.

 

[hammerva]

I thought he made the first cut. To be honest the inductee show was too damn confusing.

 

[bcr8f]

Agree with most but Reed over Carter?

 

[Limp Ditka]

Dent is the 27th Bear to earn enshrinement -- the most of any team in the NFL.

 

[Raider Nation]

Did Carter urinate on the voters or something?

 

[hammerva]

I don't get it either. I mean I know he was a drug and alcohol addict in Philly but that shouldn't be a criteria since he cleaned himself up and became a role model. I know that he is a ##### at times but #### Shannon Sharpe was inducted

 

[az_prof]

Horrible, horrible choices. I don't know who gets to vote but the HOF is losing credibility when a guy who never played or coached gets in before a guy who was the best possession WR of all time.

 

[johnnyboy8102]

I wouldn't have put Dent in over Kennedy, Roaf, Carter, or Dermontti.

And how did Reed make the final 10 over Brown and Carter? He was great but is 3rd in that group.

The writers shouldn't vote anymore.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Reed is getting closer.

 

[hammerva]

Horrible, horrible choices. I don't know who gets to vote but the HOF is losing credibility when a guy who never played or coached gets in before a guy who was the best possession WR of all time.

I agree that Carter should be nominated but Ed Sabol should have been in the Hall of Fame years ago. Hell NFL Films should be inducted as a group for what it did for pro football.

 

[golfguy]

sabol should be in, but that shouldn't take away from a guy who actually played football.

dawson should be in, so should carter and reed. they need some new blood voting for these people.

sorry but shannon was not as dynamic as cris carter was. guy was #2 in all major receiving categories behind only jerry rice when he retired.

oh but i can't wait to listen to shannon sharpe's induction speech

 

[17seconds]

how does Sharpe get in over Carter? WTF

 

[Jeremy]

A lot of complaining about Carter, but I think Roaf was the biggest snub. I'd put him 3rd after Sanders and Faulk.

 

[Sultans]

I voted Faulk, Sanders, Sharpe, Carter and Roaf.

Been watching football for over 3 decades and Willie Roaf was the anchor of the most dominant running attacks of all time. He was most responsible for making Priest "journeyman" Holmes and Larry freaking Johnson #1 picks in Fantasy.

Cris Carter not being in is a sham. Great great hands, nose for the end zone, he had a catch phrase for christs sake. I agree with poster above for said" as he neared the end, you thought that is a Hall of Famer."

 

[hammerva]

Wow look at the list for the 2011 Fans Choice voiting. Apparently there is nothing to do in Buffalo but to go to wherever you vote for that.

I love Darryl Talley being a former Mountaineer and all but damn

 

[Txns8]

How does Reed make the cut and then not even make the final 5 with Carter and Brown out? That tells me those two are a long way away.

Dawson and Roaf are two of the best ALL TIME at their positions with Dawson probably the best center ever.

 

[kd1]

anybody watching the announcement show on nfl network?

not gonna lie, that exchange between sterling and shannon got me choked up.

 

[Orange Crush]

Next year better be the year of the Offensive Lineman. I'm really surprised that neither Roaf or Dawson got in. Will Shields will be eligible next year as well. I'd vote all 3 of them into the 5-member 2012 class.

 

[David Yudkin]

Career Approximate Values . . .

Marshall Faulk, RB (165)

Chris Doleman, DE (156)

Chris Hanburger, LB (148)

Deion Sanders, CB / KR (147)

Willie Roaf, OT (146)

Tim Brown, WR / KR (145)

Cris Carter, WR (135)

Shannon Sharpe, TE (134)

Andre Reed, WR (132)

Curtis Martin, RB (129)

Richard Dent, DE (122)

Cortez Kennedy, DT (120)

Dermontti Dawson, OC (106)

Jerome Bettis, RB (102)

Charles Haley, DE (102)

Les Richter, LB (79)

Ed Sabol, NFL Films (N/A)

 

[Jason Wood]

Career Approximate Values . . .Marshall Faulk, RB (165)Chris Doleman, DE (156)Chris Hanburger, LB (148)Deion Sanders, CB / KR (147)Willie Roaf, OT (146)Tim Brown, WR / KR (145)Cris Carter, WR (135)Shannon Sharpe, TE (134)Andre Reed, WR (132)Curtis Martin, RB (129)Richard Dent, DE (122)Cortez Kennedy, DT (120)Dermontti Dawson, OC (106)Jerome Bettis, RB (102)Charles Haley, DE (102)Les Richter, LB (79)Ed Sabol, NFL Films (N/A)

That may be the best case against the value of AV I've seen in awhile.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Shannon Sharpe was overdue to make it. Good to see he is in now.

And while the realist in me thinks that it is a joke that Cris Carter isn't getting that close to getting in yet, the fan in me who always hated him loves it.

 

[johnnyboy8102]

Career Approximate Values . . .Marshall Faulk, RB (165)Chris Doleman, DE (156)Chris Hanburger, LB (148)Deion Sanders, CB / KR (147)Willie Roaf, OT (146)Tim Brown, WR / KR (145)Cris Carter, WR (135)Shannon Sharpe, TE (134)Andre Reed, WR (132)Curtis Martin, RB (129)Richard Dent, DE (122)Cortez Kennedy, DT (120)Dermontti Dawson, OC (106)Jerome Bettis, RB (102)Charles Haley, DE (102)Les Richter, LB (79)Ed Sabol, NFL Films (N/A)

That may be the best case against the value of AV I've seen in awhile.

That is just the total values. What are their weighted values?

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Career Approximate Values . . .Marshall Faulk, RB (165)Chris Doleman, DE (156)Chris Hanburger, LB (148)Deion Sanders, CB / KR (147)Willie Roaf, OT (146)Tim Brown, WR / KR (145)Cris Carter, WR (135)Shannon Sharpe, TE (134)Andre Reed, WR (132)Curtis Martin, RB (129)Richard Dent, DE (122)Cortez Kennedy, DT (120)Dermontti Dawson, OC (106)Jerome Bettis, RB (102)Charles Haley, DE (102)Les Richter, LB (79)Ed Sabol, NFL Films (N/A)

So when I say that Reed should have gotten in over Dent I have some statistical support? Good to know.