Vulue of TE 1.5 ppr (1 Viewer)

[Jaysports]

There is another thread in the shark pool regarding taking a QB late even in 6 point per passing TD because the increase in scoring is relative to the whole position since QB12 gets a bump in scoring the same as QB1 gets a bump. Can or should the same thought process apply to TE's even when they get 1.5 PPR?

 

[butcher boy]

TEs have incredible vulue in these leagues. To give you an idea how vuluable they are, I was in a FBG league last year and elite TEs were going in the first and second rounds. In terms of vulue, It's almost as much a game changer as a 2 QB league is.

 

[Captain Hook]

Can or should the same thought process apply to TE's even when they get 1.5 PPR?

NO because the amount of receptions is far from equal - far more separation between TE1 and TE12 for receptions than QB1 and QB12 for TD passes

 

[doogiej]

Can or should the same thought process apply to TE's even when they get 1.5 PPR?

NO because the amount of receptions is far from equal - far more separation between TE1 and TE12 for receptions than QB1 and QB12 for TD passes

Yes, but the difference in 1 ppr vs. 1.5 ppr is only .5. The difference between 4 per td and 6 per td is two full points....or four times the difference of the TE 1.5 ppr.Brady threw 36 tds last year and Schaub threw the 12th most TDs with 24. Difference of 12 x 2 points per td is 24 point differential over the season or 1.5 per week based on a 16 week season. Flacco was the #12 scoring QB in FPC scoring but had more tds than Schaub, so for the purpose of this I used Schaub and his 12th ranked td passes.Last year, Witten had 94 receptions. TE 12 was Keller with 55. TE with 12th most receptions was Gresham with 52. Taking the low end, the difference is 42 x .5= 21. 21 points over 16 weeks is 1.31 points per week.Of course Witten is infinitely more valuable than Gresham, but that is not the point of the post. The question was comparing the two things. I'm sure most would argue that given a full season from Gates, Finley and Clark that TE 12 would have been V.Davis for reception totals and Z.Miller in FPC scoring.

 

[(o)(o)]

I play in a league where the TE scores 2 PPR and TEs routinely go at the end of the 1st beginning of the 2nd.

 

[lynx4ben]

I play in a league where the TE scores 2 PPR and TEs routinely go at the end of the 1st beginning of the 2nd.

I think the elite TEs would a have nice Vulva at 1.5. I would consider one around the 2/3rd turn.

 

[gandalas]

I would say the Vulue of the TEs in this format make them even better targets for Vulue picks than I would normally vulue them.

For instance, if you normally evuluate the TEs as a round 3-4 vulue for the first couple to come off the board, then their vulues in the 1.5 format would make them even nicer vulues in early round 3 than the WRs that typically are vulued there.

Just an overall increase in vulue, IMO.

 

[butcher boy]

Last 2 posts =

 

[Ping Pong]

I would say the Vulue of the TEs in this format make them even better targets for Vulue picks than I would normally vulue them.For instance, if you normally evuluate the TEs as a round 3-4 vulue for the first couple to come off the board, then their vulues in the 1.5 format would make them even nicer vulues in early round 3 than the WRs that typically are vulued there.Just an overall increase in vulue, IMO.

I see what you did there....

 

[johnadams]

There is another thread in the shark pool regarding taking a QB late even in 6 point per passing TD because the increase in scoring is relative to the whole position since QB12 gets a bump in scoring the same as QB1 gets a bump. Can or should the same thought process apply to TE's even when they get 1.5 PPR?

The incremental increase in 6 pt per TD leagues means that the better QBs put greater distance on value between other QBs. If one QB throws for 10 TDs more than another, that means the difference between QBs is an addition 1.25 ppg. Under 4 pt/TD scoring, the difference is of 10 TDs is 2.5 ppg, but in 6 pt/TD games, the difference grows to 3.75 ppg. Misunderstanding the difference can lead to big problems if you wait on an inferior QB under the mistaken assumption that because everyone gets the bonus, it is somehow equal in terms of scoring. Looked at another way, if your workplace gives a 10% yearly bonus, do you think the guy who makes 50k gets the same total bonus as the guy who makes 100k? As for TEs, the .5 difference in PPR can be a significant adantage or disadvantage. I think looking at the difference between Vernon Davis, a concensus top 5 TE, and Brandon Pettitgrew who I've seen go undrafted in mocks, can enlighten. Davis average ppg better than Pettitgrew in no PPR: 2.32Davis average ppg better than Pettitgrew in 1 PPR: 1.39Davis average ppg better than Pettitgrew in 1.5 PPR: .92This is how your draft strategy changes. The true elite across all categories (catches/yards/TDs) get a huge bump while the middle gets much bigger and therefore valued separately. IMO, Witten, Clark and Gates might be worth second round picks as their advantage is huge. All three averaged over 18 ppg last year while the next closest averaged about 14 ppg. Failing to get one of the top three, I'd say it's okay to wait a very long time. I'd still take Davis and Finley before anyone else, but I'd probably let someone else snag them while I sat on Cooley, Winslow, or Pettitgrew.

 

[flc735]

the increase in value of 1.5 TE ppr is +50%. the increase in value of 6 qbpptd is +33%

just compare the TEs to runningbacks. the top TEs; finley, gates ect.. score just as much as the low side of the tier 1 RBs and right up there with the andre johnsons of the world. last year, witten scored 296.2 points in 1.5 te ppr. he scored more points than all but 3 of runningbacks and all but 1 WR.

vernon scored 219.4 points last year. that makes him the 14th highest scoring rb or 17th WR.

this means witten(assuming he repeats), gates and finley SHOULD be valued as a tier 1-2 RB or tier 1 WR. this means a mid 1st round selection.

vernon and clark should be valued as high end RB2/WR2's. making them mid 2nd round picks in startups.

all the 1.5 ppr te startups i've seen have had TEs going in the 3-4th rounds rather than the 1-2 rounds like they should be. this is incredible value.

this advantage decreases significantly if you can only start 1TE max. just like it would if you could only start 1qb max. in these cases, i would only bump the value of a TE and QB up about a half a round each. if you can start multiple TEs, i would bump their values up about 1.5-2 rounds on average

ETA: the posts above me seem to address the advantage gained in start 1 TE max leagues only, which i agree with. but is you add a TE flex, then you can compare them to RBs and WRs and this skyrockets their value like i showed above

 

[Sweet Love]

Last 2 posts =

Nothing wrong with a little "vulva". I play in a league that is Keep 3 where RBs and WRs get .5PPR and TEs get 1.0...so it is similar. We have two flex positions, so you can actually start 3 TEs. I have not run a statistical analysis, but a couple of the vets in the league and I spoke about the advantage a few years back. The "trend" for league champs, has been a solid TE, but not an elite one (for example, I don't think Gates was ever on a championship team (Cooley won in 2010 and Olsen won in 2009 for example). Now this is not to say they do not hold value, but those teams also boasted strong RBs and WRs, and that is why they won. This year, I nabbed Witten in the first (like a 4th rounder) and when there was no WR talent, I grabbed Winslow, with the intent on starting him each week with Witten. Not sure how it will play out, but I am just not sure whether going too strong on TE is the way to win. I'd be curious to see a consistency analysis based on week-to-week scoring for TEs in this system versus WRs and RBs (say top 10 for each).

 

[Football Jones]

Much of the importance of 1.5 for TEs depends on whether a TE is a mandatory starting position. Without TEs being mandatory, I tend to favor WRs (1 PPR for WRs) all things being equal except all but the very top TEs. 2 PPR for non-mandatory TEs is a different story, though. I know it's only a .5 PPR difference, but that's where the line gets drawn for me. I tend to favor TEs in those leagues (again, all things being equal).

 

[Captain Hook]

There is another thread in the shark pool regarding taking a QB late even in 6 point per passing TD because the increase in scoring is relative to the whole position since QB12 gets a bump in scoring the same as QB1 gets a bump. Can or should the same thought process apply to TE's even when they get 1.5 PPR?

A few follow up notes1) If you are looking at this as regards the FBGPC (same as FFPC) where not only do the TE get 1.5 PPR but there is a dual flex option, you want to look at the scoring from last year. Many of the best TE score more points than WR2...........BUT only about the top nineteen TE were playable as TE or Flex vs points for top 48 WR2) In the FBG PC Forum there are several older threads with discussion on this as well as links to the "Open Draftboards" from this week so you can see where TE were drafted3) Combining both QB and TE in the discussion, I would much rather draft a STUD TE and wait on my starting QB (or QBBC) in those competitions4) Also see Jeff Pasquino's new article on Perfect Draft for FPC