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waivers as a weapon (1 Viewer)

M

Miles

Footballguy
I'd never heard/seen/thought of this before, but, in one of my leagues, an owner successfully used waivers as a weapon against his opponent. Team A had Herbert on bye, and T. Lance stashed -- but he's ruled out. There are a bunch of byes this week, and most teams have 2 QBs on the roster. So, on Sat am, Team B went through each of the Free Agent QBs and added them -- then immediately dropped for the next one. For instance, added Garoppolo. Then dropped Garoppolo for Heinicke. Then dropped Heinicke for Winston .. etc. By dropping them, they converted from Free Agent status to Waivers ... and thus can't be picked up for 2 days (and since that crosses the game, really can't be picked up until Tues). So, Team B couldn't pick up any QBs that have any reasonable chance of playing, and were guaranteed a big fat 0 for the QB slot.

 
Any league rules around having to keep waiver pickup for a week?  Or limits on the number of pickups a team can make?  If not it sounds like your league might want to look at that.  The owner who did that is just taking advantage of the rules, jerky as it may seem.  I don't think I would pull something like that personally, as it just feel like gaming the system even if the rules are not in place to prevent it. 

 
May technically fall within the loophole that is in your league's rules/setup but kind of a #### move if you ask me. The owner should petition the commish for a league rules change to disallow for that.

 
I believe in Yahoo, if you add & then immediately drop a player, his status is back to a FA, NOT on Waivers. At least I think that's how they did it a couple years ago when something similar happened to me. 

 
Absurdly lame.  That's like 1 step away from pulling the plug from the guy's WiFi so he can't make lineup changes.

I  dont know the nature of this league (friends, co-workers, randoms, etc.) but I can't believe someone could do this and actually look the guy in the face the next time they meet up.

Would never want to play in a league where someone thought this was ok.

 
I picked up Case Keenum on waivers Tuesday, solely to prevent my opponent from grabbing him.

My intent was to drop Keenum before kickoff Thursday, but I forgot to do it and now I'm stuck with dead weight on my roster. :bag:

 
[scooter] said:
I picked up Case Keenum on waivers Tuesday, solely to prevent my opponent from grabbing him.

My intent was to drop Keenum before kickoff Thursday, but I forgot to do it and now I'm stuck with dead weight on my roster. :bag:
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Picking up a player is fine.  But an entire position?

 
Sounds like I'm in the minority here, but I think that was brilliant. Our league charges $2 per add and $2 per drop, so that would get costly, but might be well worth it. Backfires if he just trades for a QB though. And yeah, I get that it's a loophole. But things should be fair game until you slap a rule on them.

 
Commish needs to adjust settings. 

Guy gets dropped after waivers, he should immediately be available. 

Tool move? Maybe. Whatever. Whether or not he's a nice guy isn't really interesting or relevant. 

 
Miles said:
I'd never heard/seen/thought of this before, but, in one of my leagues, an owner successfully used waivers as a weapon against his opponent. Team A had Herbert on bye, and T. Lance stashed -- but he's ruled out. There are a bunch of byes this week, and most teams have 2 QBs on the roster. So, on Sat am, Team B went through each of the Free Agent QBs and added them -- then immediately dropped for the next one. For instance, added Garoppolo. Then dropped Garoppolo for Heinicke. Then dropped Heinicke for Winston .. etc. By dropping them, they converted from Free Agent status to Waivers ... and thus can't be picked up for 2 days (and since that crosses the game, really can't be picked up until Tues). So, Team B couldn't pick up any QBs that have any reasonable chance of playing, and were guaranteed a big fat 0 for the QB slot.
Click to expand...
Complete BS. Guy shoud be kicked out of the league. But any good Commissioner would make those guys immediately available

 
eighsse said:
Sounds like I'm in the minority here, but I think that was brilliant. Our league charges $2 per add and $2 per drop, so that would get costly, but might be well worth it. Backfires if he just trades for a QB though. And yeah, I get that it's a loophole. But things should be fair game until you slap a rule on them.
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Guys like you are part of the problem then.

 
eighsse said:
Sounds like I'm in the minority here, but I think that was brilliant. Our league charges $2 per add and $2 per drop, so that would get costly, but might be well worth it. Backfires if he just trades for a QB though. And yeah, I get that it's a loophole. But things should be fair game until you slap a rule on them.
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In a money league where you're paying per transaction this is acceptable.   It's a gamble you're paying everyone.

Flash said:
Guys like you are part of the problem then.
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I disagree, he's playing a different game

 
As a Commish I made sure FA's could be picked back up FCFS after dropping so its a non issue in our league, because years ago I saw this exact episode play out on "The League" and laughed at it but took notes!  

As for this league, if it doesn't have rules preventing it then there really is nothing to keep owners from doing it. 

Even though I think its bush league the way it was done - The one thing I will say here is this is key:

"So, on Sat am"

The QB short owner literally had Tues-Sat AM to pick up a bye week QB.....that owner pretty much gets what he has coming this week due to his/her inactivity. 

 
Miles said:
I'd never heard/seen/thought of this before, but, in one of my leagues, an owner successfully used waivers as a weapon against his opponent. Team A had Herbert on bye, and T. Lance stashed -- but he's ruled out. There are a bunch of byes this week, and most teams have 2 QBs on the roster. So, on Sat am, Team B went through each of the Free Agent QBs and added them -- then immediately dropped for the next one. For instance, added Garoppolo. Then dropped Garoppolo for Heinicke. Then dropped Heinicke for Winston .. etc. By dropping them, they converted from Free Agent status to Waivers ... and thus can't be picked up for 2 days (and since that crosses the game, really can't be picked up until Tues). So, Team B couldn't pick up any QBs that have any reasonable chance of playing, and were guaranteed a big fat 0 for the QB slot.
Click to expand...
We have a specific rule against this in my league. “Waiver churning” is considered poor sportsmanship. 

 
Thanks folks-

  • Team A (the waiver churner) *is* the commish.
  • The league has a $5 transaction charge. So, Team A basically spent $40 for a win.
  • Team B was Team A's college roommate. Which comes with all the trash talking and competitiveness one imagines.
  • Team B lost by 1. Any qb points would have won it. Was really hoping he'd squeak out the win.
  • I'm glad folks said the yahoo behavior -- this is a cbs league, and I had sworn this was a odd site behavior.
  • Lance was ruled out on Friday. So, really Team B had <24hrs to realize he was out and make a change.
I thought the move was minimally unsportsmanlike, and really just a bleeping bleep. But, I did see it as very clever, and the site behavior has been this way for years -- so its not a new loophole. Definitely think rules should be changed or site behavior should be updated to be like yahoo.

 
This is definitely not new.  

I've been in leagues 20yrs ago where there were rules in place to prevent this. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
We have a specific rule against this in my league. “Waiver churning” is considered poor sportsmanship. 
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Same. In our league to prevent churning, you must keep a player on your roster for 24 hours after you pick him up or he will be a free agent when you cut him. If you want to pick up a third QB and hold him so your opponent can’t pick him up, more power to you. That’s strategic. Churning six QBs in 15 minutes is a bogus move and shouldn’t be allowed in any decent league. 

 
Miles said:
I'd never heard/seen/thought of this before, but, in one of my leagues, an owner successfully used waivers as a weapon against his opponent. Team A had Herbert on bye, and T. Lance stashed -- but he's ruled out. There are a bunch of byes this week, and most teams have 2 QBs on the roster. So, on Sat am, Team B went through each of the Free Agent QBs and added them -- then immediately dropped for the next one. For instance, added Garoppolo. Then dropped Garoppolo for Heinicke. Then dropped Heinicke for Winston .. etc. By dropping them, they converted from Free Agent status to Waivers ... and thus can't be picked up for 2 days (and since that crosses the game, really can't be picked up until Tues). So, Team B couldn't pick up any QBs that have any reasonable chance of playing, and were guaranteed a big fat 0 for the QB slot.
Click to expand...
What platform is this on?

On ESPN, the default setting is if you pick up a player and drop him right after, he's still a free agent and eligible to be picked up.  If you hold the player for 24 hours and drop him, then he would have to clear the waivers process.  So if you had  free spot, you could pick up one guy on Saturday and hold him to Sunday, then pick up a different guy on Sunday.  Maybe more if you have more garbage guys you wanted to clear off your roster.  But that's about the best you could do.

 
Our league immediately makes the player available again as a free agent if he isn't on the team 24 hours I believe. I can't recall seeing an add/drop on the same day not being immediately available. People change their minds occasionally and that's ok, so this works quite well. As Commish I'd never allow this in my league. Big props to you other footballguys, because for nearly 20 years I've read through your league issues and tried to implement steps to prevent issues like these.

 
Miles said:
I'd never heard/seen/thought of this before, but, in one of my leagues, an owner successfully used waivers as a weapon against his opponent. Team A had Herbert on bye, and T. Lance stashed -- but he's ruled out. There are a bunch of byes this week, and most teams have 2 QBs on the roster. So, on Sat am, Team B went through each of the Free Agent QBs and added them -- then immediately dropped for the next one. For instance, added Garoppolo. Then dropped Garoppolo for Heinicke. Then dropped Heinicke for Winston .. etc. By dropping them, they converted from Free Agent status to Waivers ... and thus can't be picked up for 2 days (and since that crosses the game, really can't be picked up until Tues). So, Team B couldn't pick up any QBs that have any reasonable chance of playing, and were guaranteed a big fat 0 for the QB slot.
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All of my leagues have an exception that if the same guy picks up and drops a player in one day, he remains available.

Because that's some big bull####.

Now, if the guy picked up 4 QBs and rostered them for the week, smart move and pretty hilarious.

 
We charge $2 per waiver move and $2 per trade to stop this form happening but if someone wanted to burn $20 on waivers I guess they could do it. 

 
It's just an absurd loophole on the part of the website that allowed this to happen.   One person should not be able to shut down the waiver wire obviously. Personally I would not continue to play in such a league if that wasn't amended somehow.

 
This once happened in one of my leagues. It was the commissioner who did it. 

I sent him a private message asking him to think about what he did, and if he thought that was the right message to send the league as its commissioner. To his credit, he publicly apologized and changed the status of all the players back to available. We all get wrapped up in the competition sometimes, and the league accepted the apology and moved on. 

No, it wasn't forbidden in the rules, but it's so blatantly wrong I wouldn't want to play with someone who thought it was part of the game. This is why you have a commissioner. They need to step in and reverse it. That's not part of the league rules; it's part of the limitations of the website software. Unless the rules state that the website is the final decision-maker in disputes, I think the commish has the authority to step in. But I understand not everyone will agree with that.  

 
Even worse since the commish thinks this is ok. I’d kick him out of being commish for that. If he refuses, I’d not return. Ruins the fun when someone games the system like that. 

 
Miles said:
I'd never heard/seen/thought of this before, but, in one of my leagues, an owner successfully used waivers as a weapon against his opponent. Team A had Herbert on bye, and T. Lance stashed -- but he's ruled out. There are a bunch of byes this week, and most teams have 2 QBs on the roster. So, on Sat am, Team B went through each of the Free Agent QBs and added them -- then immediately dropped for the next one. For instance, added Garoppolo. Then dropped Garoppolo for Heinicke. Then dropped Heinicke for Winston .. etc. By dropping them, they converted from Free Agent status to Waivers ... and thus can't be picked up for 2 days (and since that crosses the game, really can't be picked up until Tues). So, Team B couldn't pick up any QBs that have any reasonable chance of playing, and were guaranteed a big fat 0 for the QB slot.
Click to expand...
This is the kind of thing that should be disallowed in your league rules. It's cheap and your commish should take action to protect the integrity of the league. I have no problem with picking up a player to play keep away, but not if you immediately drop them just to grab another and another and another. It's absolutely against the spirit if not the letter

 
eighsse said:
Sounds like I'm in the minority here, but I think that was brilliant. Our league charges $2 per add and $2 per drop, so that would get costly, but might be well worth it. Backfires if he just trades for a QB though. And yeah, I get that it's a loophole. But things should be fair game until you slap a rule on them.
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boo...remind me to never join a league with you

 
Miles said:
Thanks folks-

  • Team A (the waiver churner) *is* the commish.
  • The league has a $5 transaction charge. So, Team A basically spent $40 for a win.
  • Team B was Team A's college roommate. Which comes with all the trash talking and competitiveness one imagines.
  • Team B lost by 1. Any qb points would have won it. Was really hoping he'd squeak out the win.
  • I'm glad folks said the yahoo behavior -- this is a cbs league, and I had sworn this was a odd site behavior.
  • Lance was ruled out on Friday. So, really Team B had <24hrs to realize he was out and make a change.
I thought the move was minimally unsportsmanlike, and really just a bleeping bleep. But, I did see it as very clever, and the site behavior has been this way for years -- so its not a new loophole. Definitely think rules should be changed or site behavior should be updated to be like yahoo.
Click to expand...
your commish should be shamed, and you all should drop the league like a hot potato. Absolute garbage move

 
Picking up the best QB on the WW to block your opponent from getting him is fine.   Picking up and then dropping every available starting QB is complete BS.   The fact that it was the commish makes it worse.   

 
Godsbrother said:
Picking up the best QB on the WW to block your opponent from getting him is fine.   Picking up and then dropping every available starting QB is complete BS.   The fact that it was the commish makes it worse.   
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I wouldn't play in a league where this was allowed to happen.  It's bush league.

 
Miles said:
I'd never heard/seen/thought of this before, but, in one of my leagues, an owner successfully used waivers as a weapon against his opponent. Team A had Herbert on bye, and T. Lance stashed -- but he's ruled out. There are a bunch of byes this week, and most teams have 2 QBs on the roster. So, on Sat am, Team B went through each of the Free Agent QBs and added them -- then immediately dropped for the next one. For instance, added Garoppolo. Then dropped Garoppolo for Heinicke. Then dropped Heinicke for Winston .. etc. By dropping them, they converted from Free Agent status to Waivers ... and thus can't be picked up for 2 days (and since that crosses the game, really can't be picked up until Tues). So, Team B couldn't pick up any QBs that have any reasonable chance of playing, and were guaranteed a big fat 0 for the QB slot.
Click to expand...


That's called "cycling" players.

League settings should prevent that. If you add a player, then immediately drop that same player, they should be added back to the pool as an FA.

 
League settings are bad. During FCFS windows, dropped players should be immediately available.  Have the rule change and then this can't happen.

Kudos for the guy working the system (and waiver churning is garbage I agree), but the league needs to protect itself by having the right rules too.

 
Godsbrother said:
Picking up the best QB on the WW to block your opponent from getting him is fine.   Picking up and then dropping every available starting QB is complete BS.   The fact that it was the commish makes it worse.   
Click to expand...


this is where I am at....although I think the other owner is getting off easy here.....this wouldn't be an issue if the other owner didn't put himself in a position to where something like this can happen to him.....he was "banking" on there being some options for him and wasn't looking ahead or being proactive......he was getting the benefit of keeping other guys rostered because he didn't want to make a move "ahead of time" to cover his bye at QB....kind of the risk you take in a way....I'm not sure where the cutoff line is as far as "how many" would be acceptable?....but this X amount makes it a **** move.....?....using the waivers and playing "keep away" is one thing, we all should be doing it in some fashion....its one area where you can still get a little advantage in this day of easy info for everybody....roster churning a position is a different story which was done here....I'd probably be ok with him maybe picking up one or maybe two and then dumping them for a different position and blaming it on injuries/bye weeks or whatever....but you can't churn just to churn....this was the heaviest bye week so there should have been some preplanning....and there were some late developments like Waller, etc....I think we all use this rule to some extent every time we drop a guy less then 24 hours away from their game, especially Thur players...there is nothing wrong with using some of the league set ups to your advantage in some way, however obvious churning is pretty easy to identify and shouldn't be allowed....but the other owner has some blame here too.....

 
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Miles said:
Thanks folks-

  • Team A (the waiver churner) *is* the commish.
Click to expand...
oof. Makes it that much worse. The move lacks integrity, the #1 attribute you want in a commissioner. 

Miles said:
  • The league has a $5 transaction charge. So, Team A basically spent $40 for a win.
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it wouldn’t matter if it was all free. The commish locked up x# of players using just 1 roster spot.

It’s cheating, whether the site allows it or not (I also play in CBS & while it is technically possible to do it, everyone in my league knows not to). 

Miles said:
  • Team B was Team A's college roommate. Which comes with all the trash talking and competitiveness one imagines.
Click to expand...
This is irrelevant to the matter at hand, except it makes it worse because he resulted to unethical behavior to beat his “friend”. I have 2 dudes in my league I’ve known since high school & we wouldn’t resort to such a Busch league move. 

Miles said:
  • Team B lost by 1. Any qb points would have won it. Was really hoping he'd squeak out the win.
Click to expand...
awful. 

Miles said:
  • I'm glad folks said the yahoo behavior -- this is a cbs league, and I had sworn this was a odd site behavior.
Click to expand...
CBS assumes people won’t be scumbags & game the system like this. 

Miles said:
  • Lance was ruled out on Friday. So, really Team B had <24hrs to realize he was out and make a change.
I thought the move was minimally unsportsmanlike, and really just a bleeping bleep. But, I did see it as very clever, and the site behavior has been this way for years -- so its not a new loophole. Definitely think rules should be changed or site behavior should be updated to be like yahoo.
Click to expand...
It’s not clever, it’s hackery at its worst. It’s not minimally unsportsmanlike, it’s as unsportsmanlike as it gets. It is the worst of the worst moves & that dude shouldn’t be entrusted as league commissioner every again. Because if he’d pull #### shady #### with his best friend, he would absolutely screw everyone else over at the drop of a hat. 

It’s not a loophole, it’s just how some league sites waiver systems work. It is up to the league members & commish to not exploit the rules.

the analogy would be a coffee shop where the owner leaves a sign & a cup saying “back in 5 mins, pay what’s fair” and your commish took the entire carafe, left a $20 & then peed on all the cups so no one else could have coffee that day. 

Just an absolute trash move from an unethical person who shouldn’t be a league commissioner. 

 
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