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Wake me when the Ice Buckets stop (1 Viewer)

The challenge is donate $100 OR do the ice bucket. More than 50% of the people that choose the ice bucket do BOTH. Donations are up 141%. To say this isn't helping or isn't a good thing is just wrong.
I think fundraising totals are up more along the lines of 1500%.

 
So what if some people are just posting the videos for attention? That happens all the time without awareness being raised to fight a disease. If you or someone you loved had this there wouldn't be a single video that annoyed you. It blows my mind that someone could be perturbed enough about the videos that they would state their annoyance publicly. This is on par with booing an amateur act on the Jerry Lewis telethon. If someone in the public eye came out and said these videos were annoying they would be torn apart and rightfully so. A lack of perspective and empathy.

 
Seems like Rayderr doesn't quite understand how and why this is spreading. And why that's a good thing despite the percentage donating falling short of 100.
I understand perfectly. It's one part bros icing bros, one part planking, one part chain email, one part charity.
And you understand why it's better for the cause for non-donators to still post a video?
I understand that that the awareness level will not have changed if they hadn't posted a video as there are plenty of donators already doing the same thing.
Patently false.
really? About 20 of my friends have done the ice bucket challenge video. Let's say one of those didn't donate (my guess would be on the guy who grabbed the edges of the barrel, did a hand stand, lowered himself in, and then back out.) I still would've known about it from the other 19 friends.
So hearing about something 20 times instead of 19 affects your life in any appreciable way? So much so that we need to condemn that one faker?

I will say this -- now I know how idiotic I used to sound when I would complain about stuff like this. So thanks for the perspective.

 
Seems like Rayderr doesn't quite understand how and why this is spreading. And why that's a good thing despite the percentage donating falling short of 100.
I understand perfectly. It's one part bros icing bros, one part planking, one part chain email, one part charity.
And you understand why it's better for the cause for non-donators to still post a video?
I understand that that the awareness level will not have changed if they hadn't posted a video as there are plenty of donators already doing the same thing.
Patently false.
really? About 20 of my friends have done the ice bucket challenge video. Let's say one of those didn't donate (my guess would be on the guy who grabbed the edges of the barrel, did a hand stand, lowered himself in, and then back out.) I still would've known about it from the other 19 friends.
So hearing about something 20 times instead of 19 affects your life in any appreciable way? So much so that we need to condemn that one faker?

I will say this -- now I know how idiotic I used to sound when I would complain about stuff like this. So thanks for the perspective.
:bag:

Must admit i agree with this.

Even if I feel this way... if it brings negativity to a positive situation. There no reason to voice my opinion.

 
I'm well aware of it's origins. In fact if you go back and read my original post (in the quote blocks above) You'll even said I said it was fine when it started. My complaint is aimed mainly at the people who are doing the ice bucket challenge for reasons other than to donate to ALS (and since we rarely see them walk over to the desk after doing the challenge, and writing a check, putting it in an envelope and dropping it off in a mailbox, I'd wager a good portion of those doing it for attention aren't even fulfilling the donation part.)
However, ALS has raised millions more during this period than the same period last year.
And that has what to do with the people who are doing the challenge for their own gain and in many cases not even following up on making the donation? And I'm not sure why it's usch a taboo to speak out against those people and that they must be defended at all costs? Just because myself and others have called out people for their disingenuous use of the IBC does not mean we think that of everyone who has done it.
I'm not sure stating that ALS has raised millions during this period qualifies as defending those people at all costs.

 
Great to see the success of the campaign, despite some of the silliness: White Sox announcer Hawk Harrelson did the ice bucket between innings of a game. He was on the outfield promenade and made his call-out before the bucket dump. They had a hand-held camera catching it all ...as he stood there with one of those food service hair net things on this head ..and then bent way over for the bucket dump. Hawk - lose the cap, and stand tall. All was well in the end: The first dump (by the Sox mascot) washed the cap off, then Jim Thome snuck in with a second bucket and soaked him real good.

 
As long as we're talking about it, can we get all of those cancer commercials on TV stopped? Geez, I get it. Cancer is bad. But do we really need more than 1 commercial? It's freaking annoying after a while. :hot:

 
I get the complaint about people just being look at me types who want their 15 minutes of Facebook fame. I get that. And if there is a good cause and you feel the need to give to that cause, you should do it anyway. And I fully admit that the impetus for me to do this stupid thing and post a video is almost solely due to the fact that I was called out.

I'll even throw myself under the bus. My Facebook feed is full of people that did this - friends and family and then famous people getting linked and shared. About a week ago I was complaining to my wife about specifically my family members that were doing it and it felt like they were doing it to be cool and take part in this internent sensation. Especially one family member who I know can't spell ALS and wouldn't know about giving money to charity if you walked her through it.

Then I got challenged by a close friend who is going to never let me hear the end of it until I do it and so I am. Was I going to donate prior to that? Probably not. But that is because, (1) I hate being or feeling forced to "do something nice" because more often than not I fall into the Otis type camp with this stuff anyway; and (2) we had a close friend lose her mother to his terrible ****ing disease a month ago who died 6 months after the diagnosis and we helped them out so it was a targeted donation in that sense. It attacked her so damn fast that the family was just getting to the stage where they accepted the reality of the disease and then she was gone. And she went in agonizing pain. Save for the Hitler's and Stalin's of the world - or the guy that drives under the speed limit in the left lane of the GSP on the weekend - no one deserves that fate. And yes, no one deserves cancer, pediatric disease, and the whole slew of other diseases. They are all heart breaking. I know I've become almost numb to the anguish that a lot of things cause. When my father in law was diagnosed with cancer we almost didn't react because you hear it so much these days. But every now and then for whatever reason a certain person getting a disease makes you choke up - Biggy's son - or someone's death makes you sad for really no reason at all - Robin Williams - and you feel compelled to do or say something.

We are at our greatest when we take our empathy and use it for a greater good. We are at our worst when we only feel any empathy at all when it is cool to do so and ignore the world around us the rest of the time. But it is the very nature of who we are. I can't mentally, spiritually or physically have my life affected by the terribles throughout the world when I don't see or know of them or they are so far away and seem so impossible for me to do something. But I can dump a bucket of water on my head, let my friends laugh at me for doing it, and then donate $100 to a charity that I probably wouldn't have otherwise.

So I get the "I'm over it" feeling. When it leads to actual attacks on the people doing it I think it goes to far, but I get it. Me, I'm going to dump a bucket of water on my head. And maybe I will be moved to read about genocide on the other side of the world and send a donation there; or visit a pediatric cancer center and volunteer my time or donate there; or walk down the street to my local hospital and ask how I can help. But probably not. In my first world problems I am stretched pretty thin for time and already donate a ton of time and money to my church, local churches, local civic organizations, low income seniors and the Legal Services offices of my state. I'm doing what I can. I can certainly do more. We all can.

 
I get the complaint about people just being look at me types who want their 15 minutes of Facebook fame. I get that. And if there is a good cause and you feel the need to give to that cause, you should do it anyway. And I fully admit that the impetus for me to do this stupid thing and post a video is almost solely due to the fact that I was called out.

I'll even throw myself under the bus. My Facebook feed is full of people that did this - friends and family and then famous people getting linked and shared. About a week ago I was complaining to my wife about specifically my family members that were doing it and it felt like they were doing it to be cool and take part in this internent sensation. Especially one family member who I know can't spell ALS and wouldn't know about giving money to charity if you walked her through it.

Then I got challenged by a close friend who is going to never let me hear the end of it until I do it and so I am. Was I going to donate prior to that? Probably not. But that is because, (1) I hate being or feeling forced to "do something nice" because more often than not I fall into the Otis type camp with this stuff anyway; and (2) we had a close friend lose her mother to his terrible ****ing disease a month ago who died 6 months after the diagnosis and we helped them out so it was a targeted donation in that sense. It attacked her so damn fast that the family was just getting to the stage where they accepted the reality of the disease and then she was gone. And she went in agonizing pain. Save for the Hitler's and Stalin's of the world - or the guy that drives under the speed limit in the left lane of the GSP on the weekend - no one deserves that fate. And yes, no one deserves cancer, pediatric disease, and the whole slew of other diseases. They are all heart breaking. I know I've become almost numb to the anguish that a lot of things cause. When my father in law was diagnosed with cancer we almost didn't react because you hear it so much these days. But every now and then for whatever reason a certain person getting a disease makes you choke up - Biggy's son - or someone's death makes you sad for really no reason at all - Robin Williams - and you feel compelled to do or say something.

We are at our greatest when we take our empathy and use it for a greater good. We are at our worst when we only feel any empathy at all when it is cool to do so and ignore the world around us the rest of the time. But it is the very nature of who we are. I can't mentally, spiritually or physically have my life affected by the terribles throughout the world when I don't see or know of them or they are so far away and seem so impossible for me to do something. But I can dump a bucket of water on my head, let my friends laugh at me for doing it, and then donate $100 to a charity that I probably wouldn't have otherwise.

So I get the "I'm over it" feeling. When it leads to actual attacks on the people doing it I think it goes to far, but I get it. Me, I'm going to dump a bucket of water on my head. And maybe I will be moved to read about genocide on the other side of the world and send a donation there; or visit a pediatric cancer center and volunteer my time or donate there; or walk down the street to my local hospital and ask how I can help. But probably not. In my first world problems I am stretched pretty thin for time and already donate a ton of time and money to my church, local churches, local civic organizations, low income seniors and the Legal Services offices of my state. I'm doing what I can. I can certainly do more. We all can.
:applause:

So should I call out Otis?

 
ALS is a terrible disease as many have mentioned and this thread shows what a self absorbed arrogant look at me piece of crap Otis is.
Are you sure you're angry enough about this?

Why is it "absorbed" or "arrogant" to observe that it's douschy for a bunch of people who don't even know what ALS is to go on Facebook and video themselves in the name of a cause they never cared about before simply because they want to join in and have a video of themselves on Facebook?
I think the one component you're forgetting about here is societal pressure. Let's say you're not a douchy person who would not be the type to post a video of themselves on FB (which describes pretty much every single one of my friends who has done this). When someone does this challenge and then publicly challenges you to join in the effort, what is your move? Refuse to do it on principle? Or suck it up understanding that you're helping promote a worthy cause?

*Be very careful how you answer this question.
Someone challenged me and I didnt do it
Same here.
You must feel good about yourselves.
I wouldn't say that I feel good about myself, or bad about myself. I just don't like to post pictures or video of myself to Facebook, Instagram, etc.

 
I'll make a challenge, anyone that can compile 50 girls or even link one that's done already (Offdee >6) in bikinis doing this I'll donate 50 bucks.

For humanity.

 
ALS is a terrible disease as many have mentioned and this thread shows what a self absorbed arrogant look at me piece of crap Otis is.
Are you sure you're angry enough about this?

Why is it "absorbed" or "arrogant" to observe that it's douschy for a bunch of people who don't even know what ALS is to go on Facebook and video themselves in the name of a cause they never cared about before simply because they want to join in and have a video of themselves on Facebook?
I think the one component you're forgetting about here is societal pressure. Let's say you're not a douchy person who would not be the type to post a video of themselves on FB (which describes pretty much every single one of my friends who has done this). When someone does this challenge and then publicly challenges you to join in the effort, what is your move? Refuse to do it on principle? Or suck it up understanding that you're helping promote a worthy cause?

*Be very careful how you answer this question.
Someone challenged me and I didnt do it
Same here.
You must feel good about yourselves.
I wouldn't say that I feel good about myself, or bad about myself. I just don't like to post pictures or video of myself to Facebook, Instagram, etc.
This isn't a selfie with the DJ at Club Ultra.

 
I'll make a challenge, anyone that can compile 50 girls or even link one that's done already (Offdee >6) in bikinis doing this I'll donate 50 bucks.

For humanity.
Google search is your friend.

I just saw that President Bush did it with Laura dumping it on his head. It was funny.

 
I wouldn't say that I feel good about myself, or bad about myself. I just don't like to post pictures or video of myself to Facebook, Instagram, etc.I hate all people with diseases.
FYP
Jebus. It's not like I refused to wear an AIDS ribbon on an AIDS walk.
This is the FFA. You have to embrace the whole ice bucket experience wholeheartedly. Also, you must give a 'like' to anyone on your FB page who does the challenge. If you don't, you are against charity.

 
I wouldn't say that I feel good about myself, or bad about myself. I just don't like to post pictures or video of myself to Facebook, Instagram, etc.I hate all people with diseases.
FYP
Jebus. It's not like I refused to wear an AIDS ribbon on an AIDS walk.
This is the FFA. You have to embrace the whole ice bucket experience wholeheartedly. Also, you must give a 'like' to anyone on your FB page who does the challenge. If you don't, you are against charity.
I don't have any problem with anyone who doesn't want to do it. That's fine. Don't. Don't wear the ribbon either. Don't care.

I just don't get the public outcry against it.

 
ALS is a terrible disease as many have mentioned and this thread shows what a self absorbed arrogant look at me piece of crap Otis is.
Are you sure you're angry enough about this?

Why is it "absorbed" or "arrogant" to observe that it's douschy for a bunch of people who don't even know what ALS is to go on Facebook and video themselves in the name of a cause they never cared about before simply because they want to join in and have a video of themselves on Facebook?
I think the one component you're forgetting about here is societal pressure. Let's say you're not a douchy person who would not be the type to post a video of themselves on FB (which describes pretty much every single one of my friends who has done this). When someone does this challenge and then publicly challenges you to join in the effort, what is your move? Refuse to do it on principle? Or suck it up understanding that you're helping promote a worthy cause?

*Be very careful how you answer this question.
Christ this is such a no-win situation for me.

Bottom line -- I haven't been on FB a whole lot in recent days, but if someone challenges me to this nonsense, I'm going to make a donation to ALS. That's the official Camp Otis position.

 
ALS is a terrible disease as many have mentioned and this thread shows what a self absorbed arrogant look at me piece of crap Otis is.
Are you sure you're angry enough about this?

Why is it "absorbed" or "arrogant" to observe that it's douschy for a bunch of people who don't even know what ALS is to go on Facebook and video themselves in the name of a cause they never cared about before simply because they want to join in and have a video of themselves on Facebook?
I think the one component you're forgetting about here is societal pressure. Let's say you're not a douchy person who would not be the type to post a video of themselves on FB (which describes pretty much every single one of my friends who has done this). When someone does this challenge and then publicly challenges you to join in the effort, what is your move? Refuse to do it on principle? Or suck it up understanding that you're helping promote a worthy cause?

*Be very careful how you answer this question.
Christ this is such a no-win situation for me.

Bottom line -- I haven't been on FB a whole lot in recent days, but if someone challenges me to this nonsense, I'm going to make a donation to ALS. That's the official Camp Otis position.
Why wait until someone challenges you? ;)

 
And yes when I'm calling you out for being an attention whore, you've got a problem. All of Facebook has a problem.
My daughter describes this state of mind as "totes jelly".
Yeah. If only I could find a video camera and could register a social media account somewhere.
The next time you feel the urge to start a thread whining about how awful your life is, I encourage you to make a charitable donation instead. It doesn't have to be to ALS research - I don't want anyone to think you're just trying to feed a need for attention and inclusion. But find some cause that you think is making the world a better place, and help them out. IMO a gesture like that will go a long way towards making these ice bucket videos less annoying to you.
I give to charities all the time. :shrug:

Tons if righteous indignation in here huh.
Not one single person in this world believes that you help others and it has nothing to do with righteous. I advise you give to a charity that helps with heartless people.
Another mad guy. Really digging this thread.

Maybe I'll give to a charity for people who have ice stuck in their shirt collar?

 
brohan you are now in the same boat with some dude who claims to be a best poser of the year nominee as the two guys around here who talk crap about good charities i guess good for you two but jeez who is more annoying the people who post videos of them in a charity of the guys who post threads complaining about it now at the end of the day you will both go back to making a ton of money and living it up and all that and i will crawl back in to my crappy rat hole and i guess you win on that one but man when it comes to wanting to see vets and als patients get help i think my karma wins that one hands down take that to the bank brohans

 
Count me in the group that thinks it's getting a bit out of control. It was fine initially but then celebs started doing it because they need people to talk about them. Our local NBC affiliate has been hyping "Tune in every day to see another On-Air member of NBC4 take the Ice Bucket challenge!" Um, no. Great that you guys want to donate to ALS, but when you turn it into a ratings stunt, I'm out. And the guy who had a helicopter drop water on him up in the mountains, How about you just do the challenge normally and add in the money you spent on renting the helicopter to the donation to ALS?

And on a side note, I wonder how percentage of these people taking the challenge then actually send in the money to ALS.
It is out of control but it will pass. Like everything else does, til the next craze.

People are having fun with it.

The stunts are fun and part of raising awareness.

If people just donated and didn't take it a step further ALS probably would have received $23,000 instead of $23,000,000

You remember John Paulson's generous gift right?

Me either.

Well, he donated 100Million dollars to the NY Central Park Conservatory.

I know, I know...I didn't even know there was a central park conservatory and people still don't despite the 100M donation.

But if people were all having fun with for a month or 2 and doing silly things awareness for the NY Central Park Conservatory would have been raised and people might be able to help out down the road and join a cause they would normally not have heard of.
:goodposting:

It's all about the awareness.
I think the awareness is getting lost now too. Seen a few ice bucket challenges that don't even reference ALS.

ALS is a terrible disease as many have mentioned and this thread shows what a self absorbed arrogant look at me piece of crap Otis is.
Are you sure you're angry enough about this?

Why is it "absorbed" or "arrogant" to observe that it's douschy for a bunch of people who don't even know what ALS is to go on Facebook and video themselves in the name of a cause they never cared about before simply because they want to join in and have a video of themselves on Facebook?

I already conceded it was a brilliant and effective campaign. It's not like I ever said ALS is awesome and giving to charity is bad. A few of you guys are worse at reading comprehension than you are at curing diseases by pouring ice on your heads.
Maybe because it was a brilliant and effective campaign, albeit hijacked (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/business/ice-bucket-challenge-has-raised-millions-for-als-association.html?_r=1 ) it's helped people learn about a truly terrible disease. But even if they are doing this for their own "selfish" reasons why should it matter? Who is being hurt here?
Nobody is being "hurt" here. The OP started a thread saying "please wake me up when this silly fad ends." I came in and agreed. End of story. I'm not losing sleep.

 
The titanic be like...I nominate all passengers for the ice bucket challenge.

 
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I have to admit that in the pre-facebook days, it was pretty annoying when my friends would show up at my door challenging me to I either donate to the PBS telethon within 24 hours or cover msyelf in peanut butter. I think I kept the local Jif sales rep in business.

 
Count me in the group that thinks it's getting a bit out of control. It was fine initially but then celebs started doing it because they need people to talk about them. Our local NBC affiliate has been hyping "Tune in every day to see another On-Air member of NBC4 take the Ice Bucket challenge!" Um, no. Great that you guys want to donate to ALS, but when you turn it into a ratings stunt, I'm out. And the guy who had a helicopter drop water on him up in the mountains, How about you just do the challenge normally and add in the money you spent on renting the helicopter to the donation to ALS?

And on a side note, I wonder how percentage of these people taking the challenge then actually send in the money to ALS.
But has it helped the cause?

There are people like you and think like you in the world, maybe that's why it is such a crappy place. The complain and cry because something that helps others annoys them. I'm sorry helping find a cure or at least raising awareness gets on their nerves because it interferes with their facebook feed and all the "Name a movie that doesn't have a letter A in it" posts.
:shrug: I've donated money to charities before and will in the future. Don't need to be "challenged" to do so. Don't need to post a youtube video that shows I'm doing something stupid to donate less. And at this point, I really don't think it's about ALS, it about people trying to grab some attention for themselves. It's the new "planking."
Again, pretty much every one of my friends who has done this are not the type who look to grab attention for themselves. They've simply been called out. I think some people may be doing this simply to avoid the negative attention of not doing it after being called out publicly, which is somewhat counter to your point.
I'm not saying everyone who does this is a mindless tool. I am sure plenty of nice, well-intentioned people are doing it for the right reasons. I'm also pretty certain that others don't care about the disease or the charity. It's all good. And by the way, I have no idea if any of you guys have done it, and if you have, I'm not intending to knock any of you personally. Like I said, I haven't been keeping a close eye on this thing, and the interns are on vacation this week.

 
And yes when I'm calling you out for being an attention whore, you've got a problem. All of Facebook has a problem.
My daughter describes this state of mind as "totes jelly".
Yeah. If only I could find a video camera and could register a social media account somewhere.
The next time you feel the urge to start a thread whining about how awful your life is, I encourage you to make a charitable donation instead. It doesn't have to be to ALS research - I don't want anyone to think you're just trying to feed a need for attention and inclusion. But find some cause that you think is making the world a better place, and help them out. IMO a gesture like that will go a long way towards making these ice bucket videos less annoying to you.
I give to charities all the time. :shrug:

Tons if righteous indignation in here huh.
Not one single person in this world believes that you help others and it has nothing to do with righteous. I advise you give to a charity that helps with heartless people.
Another mad guy. Really digging this thread.

Maybe I'll give to a charity for people who have ice stuck in their shirt collar?
I'm sure there is one. The innerwebs has everything.

I just did my donation because I'm not getting to the challenge anytime soon. It's fairly easy on the website. Took 5 minutes. Do it and then go outside your office and kick a beggar. You'll get the best of both worlds.

 
I’ll be honest – I thought this whole Ice Bucket Challenge was demeaning to the families that have been devastated by ALS. Then I learned about how the Challenge began, the impact it's having on fundraising for and awareness of ALS and decided to participate.

First, I dedicate (not challenge) this to our friend Gary xxxxx who lost his father to ALS.

Second, I dedicate this to one of the greatest men I know – a great friend, a great husband, and a great father – Rodger xxxxx. Rodger and his son lost [their wife and mom] to ALS.

Finally, I challenge everyone reading this to donate money to the ALS Association to continue research into a cure for this disease – go to http://www.alsa.org and click “Donate”.
Text that accompanied the vid a friend posted today. What an ####### - AMIRITE?!

 
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ALS is a terrible disease as many have mentioned and this thread shows what a self absorbed arrogant look at me piece of crap Otis is.
Are you sure you're angry enough about this?

Why is it "absorbed" or "arrogant" to observe that it's douschy for a bunch of people who don't even know what ALS is to go on Facebook and video themselves in the name of a cause they never cared about before simply because they want to join in and have a video of themselves on Facebook?
I think the one component you're forgetting about here is societal pressure. Let's say you're not a douchy person who would not be the type to post a video of themselves on FB (which describes pretty much every single one of my friends who has done this). When someone does this challenge and then publicly challenges you to join in the effort, what is your move? Refuse to do it on principle? Or suck it up understanding that you're helping promote a worthy cause?

*Be very careful how you answer this question.
Christ this is such a no-win situation for me.

Bottom line -- I haven't been on FB a whole lot in recent days, but if someone challenges me to this nonsense, I'm going to make a donation to ALS. That's the official Camp Otis position.
:lmao: You're off the hook. But I'll be coming at you in a couple months - stay tuned.

 
ALS is a terrible disease as many have mentioned and this thread shows what a self absorbed arrogant look at me piece of crap Otis is.
Are you sure you're angry enough about this?

Why is it "absorbed" or "arrogant" to observe that it's douschy for a bunch of people who don't even know what ALS is to go on Facebook and video themselves in the name of a cause they never cared about before simply because they want to join in and have a video of themselves on Facebook?
I think the one component you're forgetting about here is societal pressure. Let's say you're not a douchy person who would not be the type to post a video of themselves on FB (which describes pretty much every single one of my friends who has done this). When someone does this challenge and then publicly challenges you to join in the effort, what is your move? Refuse to do it on principle? Or suck it up understanding that you're helping promote a worthy cause?

*Be very careful how you answer this question.
Christ this is such a no-win situation for me.

Bottom line -- I haven't been on FB a whole lot in recent days, but if someone challenges me to this nonsense, I'm going to make a donation to ALS. That's the official Camp Otis position.
:lmao: You're off the hook. But I'll be coming at you in a couple months - stay tuned.
:breathesout:

 
And yes when I'm calling you out for being an attention whore, you've got a problem. All of Facebook has a problem.
My daughter describes this state of mind as "totes jelly".
Yeah. If only I could find a video camera and could register a social media account somewhere.
The next time you feel the urge to start a thread whining about how awful your life is, I encourage you to make a charitable donation instead. It doesn't have to be to ALS research - I don't want anyone to think you're just trying to feed a need for attention and inclusion. But find some cause that you think is making the world a better place, and help them out. IMO a gesture like that will go a long way towards making these ice bucket videos less annoying to you.
I give to charities all the time. :shrug:

Tons if righteous indignation in here huh.
Not one single person in this world believes that you help others and it has nothing to do with righteous. I advise you give to a charity that helps with heartless people.
Another mad guy. Really digging this thread.

Maybe I'll give to a charity for people who have ice stuck in their shirt collar?
Not mad, just trying to provide you with common sense is all. I will be donating to a mental health charity to give those with mental health issues (maybe even some who post here) help from that extra push. :2cents:

 
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