Warning - Novel Length - A Forum Manifesto (2 Viewers)

[otb_lifer]

this explains where my "Babeageddon" thread went ...

... though it was actually nuked a couple weeks ago, in the wee hours of a Sunday morning - i posted a couple/three "chic-torials", then ZAP.

yeah, some of the pics were getting a tad risque, admittedly - but never any nudity/salacious acts/etc.   i also took steps to insure that all pics/gifs were fresh offerings - always copied pics and made clean Imgur (the only host i trust) files, and always re-upped the gifs via GFYcat (again, trusted), if they already existed.   there were no links to dodgy hosts that would light folks screens up with XXX sites, pics, malware, etc.  

also, anything that was posted can be seen on any beach at anytime ... hell, up here it's seen on the streets (occasionally) 

so, @Joe Bryant - i've read the passage in the Manifesto about keeping it PG, and "SFW" - maybe we all have different interpretations of said parameters?  understood, of course, that the only interpretation(s) that will matter going forward are those of you and the mods ... but where does it become "offensive"?   example, i don't think it was you who personally nuked the thread, so ... is this always a unilateral decision, that can be made without warning/advisement to the poster?

btw, love the creation of the Political sub - thanks very much for taking that step 

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Second, consider this a reset. What's past is past from us. Please let's look at this as from now going forward. I know there have been slights and wrongs. I'm asking that you let us move forward from here. 

- Please no Trolling or Triggers. Trolls always do the "who me?" defense when called out. But it's clear to everyone what you're doing when people are posting with the intent of trying to get a reaction. Clayton gave me this definition of Trolling that feels spot on: making a deliberately offensive or provocative online post with the aim of upsetting someone or eliciting an angry response from them.  If we feel you're trying to just rile up people and start a fight, you'll be suspended. 

What we DO want on the Forums:

- Let it go. This is the flipside to "Don't Hold A Grudge". It's a message board. 

Did you hire Bruce Dickinson to troll me and constantly bring up old beefs he has with me in the other moderation thread?  

 

[SofaKings]

Whoa, might be time to check out the ffa more often.

 

[Aerial Assault]

Yeah, what otb said.  I was thinking of starting a thread to discuss attractive women.  I'm not a boundary-pusher and everything would be safe for work.  Is this verboten now?  

 

[Joe Bryant]

this explains where my "Babeageddon" thread went ...

... though it was actually nuked a couple weeks ago, in the wee hours of a Sunday morning - i posted a couple/three "chic-torials", then ZAP.

yeah, some of the pics were getting a tad risque, admittedly - but never any nudity/salacious acts/etc.   i also took steps to insure that all pics/gifs were fresh offerings - always copied pics and made clean Imgur (the only host i trust) files, and always re-upped the gifs via GFYcat (again, trusted), if they already existed.   there were no links to dodgy hosts that would light folks screens up with XXX sites, pics, malware, etc.  

also, anything that was posted can be seen on any beach at anytime ... hell, up here it's seen on the streets (occasionally) 

so, @Joe Bryant - i've read the passage in the Manifesto about keeping it PG, and "SFW" - maybe we all have different interpretations of said parameters?  understood, of course, that the only interpretation(s) that will matter going forward are those of you and the mods ... but where does it become "offensive"?   example, i don't think it was you who personally nuked the thread, so ... is this always a unilateral decision, that can be made without warning/advisement to the poster?

btw, love the creation of the Political sub - thanks very much for taking that step 

Hi otb,

Thanks for being cool about it. I'm not sure the best way to handle these so we'll take a look case by case. I'm not sure where the "line" is but the way most of the moderators operate is if they see a post in a thread that's over the line, they'll delete the post. But if there are a lot of posts over the line in a thread, the whole thread will be deleted. 

And as I was saying in the other thread, sometimes the comments are more trouble than the picture. I hear you on what you see on the beaches or streets. That's one thing with a woman walking down the street. But that same woman walking down the street and a bunch of guys on the corner talking about it (even if she can't hear them) can be a different level. Where it hits for me is people reading the forum and seeing guys talking maybe past PG rating about a woman and that turns into "Didn't realize Footballguys endorsed that type of talk about women". 

I know you guys like these. But it's kind of complicated. 

Bottom line is please be as cool as you can on these and err on the side of being more family rated than less.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Joe, over time I came to realize that what is special about this place are the guardrails. Thanks for all you do.

Thank you Mrham. It does make us different. Thanks for being part of it. 

 

[Scoresman]

Hi otb,

Thanks for being cool about it. I'm not sure the best way to handle these so we'll take a look case by case. I'm not sure where the "line" is but the way most of the moderators operate is if they see a post in a thread that's over the line, they'll delete the post. But if there are a lot of posts over the line in a thread, the whole thread will be deleted. 

And as I was saying in the other thread, sometimes the comments are more trouble than the picture. I hear you on what you see on the beaches or streets. That's one thing with a woman walking down the street. But that same woman walking down the street and a bunch of guys on the corner talking about it (even if she can't hear them) can be a different level. Where it hits for me is people reading the forum and seeing guys talking maybe past PG rating about a woman and that turns into "Didn't realize Footballguys endorsed that type of talk about women". 

I know you guys like these. But it's kind of complicated. 

Bottom line is please be as sool as you can on these and err on the side of being more family rated than less.

Thank you for giving a reason other than "It's the way we're going to do it now, hope you can understand" which honestly, always seemed kind of flippant to me.   

 

[culdeus]

I am really curious how the political forum is moderated with respect to people that are not making personal attacks, but are not providing anything of real value and effectively filibustering.

 

[otb_lifer]

Hi otb,

Thanks for being cool about it. I'm not sure the best way to handle these so we'll take a look case by case. I'm not sure where the "line" is but the way most of the moderators operate is if they see a post in a thread that's over the line, they'll delete the post. But if there are a lot of posts over the line in a thread, the whole thread will be deleted. 

And as I was saying in the other thread, sometimes the comments are more trouble than the picture. I hear you on what you see on the beaches or streets. That's one thing with a woman walking down the street. But that same woman walking down the street and a bunch of guys on the corner talking about it (even if she can't hear them) can be a different level. Where it hits for me is people reading the forum and seeing guys talking maybe past PG rating about a woman and that turns into "Didn't realize Footballguys endorsed that type of talk about women". 

I know you guys like these. But it's kind of complicated. 

Bottom line is please be as cool as you can on these and err on the side of being more family rated than less.

understood from your perspective, no question.  i may disagree, but i appreciate the heftier flesh out of the thought process - thanks 

the latter part of your response, which addresses the comments more so than the pics is interesting ... inasmuch that i personally never framed a post with "look at this tramp, boy, i'd really love to ram my 'blank' up her 'blank' -  nor were any of the subsequent comments from other FBGs of that ilk.  matter of fact, it was an extremely low trafficked thread in that respect ... the few comments that were tossed were usually of the googly eyed emoji, or the 'good posting' one.   the convo never devolved into anything degrading or demeaning, nor, as i said, were the pics ever framed as such.  there was no public circle jerk (or private, at least on my end).

now, folks may say that the pics themselves were demeaning and exploiting enough, but ... every pic posted was previously disseminated by the young lady(s) in question themselves via their social media platforms (IG, Snapchat, Twitter, Music.ily, Twitchy, etc) - so nothing leaked or ill-gotten. 

PG, to me, is clothed/legal. 

as far as "SFW" - i've been self-employed pretty much my entire adult life, so my sensibilities regarding such may not be as honed as others ... but, if one is wasting employers time/resources surfing the innerwebz, does it matter if it's about Trump or the NBA or the May weather/McGregor fight or some chick in a thong?

theft of services/slacking off is just that - no matter the vehicle one indulges in. 

thanks for your concern and input here - i'll hang up and listen. 

 

[Joe Bryant]

Thanks otb. For sure, I wasn't referring to any specific thread on the comments. I'm saying that's a natural thing it can lead to. And to your earlier post, I wouldn't call so much call that stuff "offensive" as much as just something we'd rather not have. For the idea that women posted the pics, that doesn't change much for me. Yes, it's better of course than taking  a pic without permission that's obviously wrong, but at some point, there becomes some responsibility on the viewer, not just the poster of the pic. 

The SFW thing is absolutely something way different than you've had. What I mean is that I want the board to be ok to be viewed by people at more traditional structured formal offices. 

 

[Joe Bryant]

I am really curious how the political forum is moderated with respect to people that are not making personal attacks, but are not providing anything of real value and effectively filibustering.

That one is tougher culdeus. Something like intentionally trying to wreak a thread posting recipes or nonsense is for sure over the line. But some people just talk a lot and it's tougher to moderate. If you see something, please hit the report so I can see what you're talking about. 

 

[Dan Lambskin]

Thanks Koya. Much appreciated. I'm glad you guys were able to see it how I meant the original post. I wanted to be detailed and clear but as it got so wordy, I was worried it would be taken poorly. Of course it has by some but by and large the public and private feedback has been exceptional. I'm 100% convinced it's the right thing. Thanks. Let us have a few more days to get stable then shoot me a pm this weekend about the bananas and I'll see what Keith can do. 

Can we get a sweeping broom smiley first?

 

[Gottabesweet]

2017 at it's finest. #SAWFT

 

[Hov34]

I note that there have been no Who's Hottest threads since this announcement. 

I got you covered GB.

 

[Dan Lambskin]

Probably lost passwords

We have some pretty good hackers getting into old accounts apparently ... maybe they can help? 

 

[Joe Bryant]

2017 at it's finest. #SAWFT

Can you elaborate @Gottabesweet ?

 

[Dan Lambskin]

Can we get a sweeping broom smiley first?

seriously though something like This or This would be great.  probably Top Priority for a good number of FFA Members

 

[lumpy19]

Can we get a sweeping broom smiley first?

I second this post

solution

 

[lumpy19]

Football season is coming and in the wagering thread we're expecting big things, we need that sweep emoji

 

[E-Z Glider]

I think the political sub forum may have just saved FBGs. 

 

[Chemical X]

i think this is all a bunch of BS until i get my gosh darned member number and signature back.....gee willickers, why did we lose that stuff?

 

[Zaxxon]

i think this is all a bunch of BS until i get my gosh darned member number and signature back.....gee willickers, why did we lose that stuff?

Just be happy we're not back to going no avatars for now.

 

[AAABatteries]

@Joe Bryant - can something be done about some posters just spamming threads with their twitter feeds?  People have asked nicely for it to stop - and the vast majority of posters don't abuse this but there's a few that do.  I come to the FFA to read what people think not what they are reading on Twitter.  I get posting something on occasion that is pertinent to a thread.

 

[The Commish]

@Joe Bryant - can something be done about some posters just spamming threads with their twitter feeds?  People have asked nicely for it to stop - and the vast majority of posters don't abuse this but there's a few that do.  I come to the FFA to read what people think not what they are reading on Twitter.  I get posting something on occasion that is pertinent to a thread.

 

After obnoxious alias accounts, this is next on the list of "there goes the neighborhood" type actions.

 

[Politician Spock]

@Joe Bryant - can something be done about some posters just spamming threads with their twitter feeds?  People have asked nicely for it to stop - and the vast majority of posters don't abuse this but there's a few that do.  I come to the FFA to read what people think not what they are reading on Twitter.  I get posting something on occasion that is pertinent to a thread.

 

After obnoxious alias accounts, this is next on the list of "there goes the neighborhood" type actions.

If I wanted to know what someone is tweeting, I would follow them on twitter. It's not that hard. We don't need the FFA to be the twitter mirror. 

 

[Joe Bryant]

@Joe Bryant - can something be done about some posters just spamming threads with their twitter feeds?  People have asked nicely for it to stop - and the vast majority of posters don't abuse this but there's a few that do.  I come to the FFA to read what people think not what they are reading on Twitter.  I get posting something on occasion that is pertinent to a thread.

For sure. @AAABatteries That's not cool. Please report these when you see them and we'll run it down.

 

[Joe Summer]

@Joe Bryant - can something be done about some posters just spamming threads with their twitter feeds? People have asked nicely for it to stop - and the vast majority of posters don't abuse this but there's a few that do. I come to the FFA to read what people think not what they are reading on Twitter. I get posting something on occasion that is pertinent to a thread.

Where do you draw the line? Are we going to delete every post that comes from a tweet?

 

[Politician Spock]

Where do you draw the line? Are we going to delete every post that comes from a tweet?

The line between posting and spamming is pretty easy to see. 

 

[Joe Summer]

The line between posting and spamming is pretty easy to see

The people in the Shark Pool who post every tweet from Adam Schefter -- is that considered spamming?

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Serious question. Can you point to an example? 

I post tweets with a persons comments and links to articles. Will I now be subject to a banning for that? Seems like we're going to quickly go overboard with ban-able offenses.

If somebody is "spamming tweets" just put them on ignore. 

IMO, you know it when you see it.

I would think something linking to an informative article or even posting a fact is okay.

41% of Americans support impeaching Trump Just 24% supported impeaching Nixon at the same time in Watergate scandal

But, ones that are trollish/snarky are probably spamming the board.

It's heartwarming to know that Russian money launderer Ike Kaveladze was willing to attend a Donald Trump Jr meeting about adoption.

or

Mitch McConnell has to delay taking healthcare from American taxpayers until after John McCain has surgery, paid for by American taxpayers

 

[Joe Summer]

Yeah, I think most of the tweets in the political threads and the Shark Pool (especially on Sunday mornings) are invaluable.

 

[Joe Summer]

But, ones that are trollish/snarky are probably spamming the board.

It's heartwarming to know that Russian money launderer Ike Kaveladze was willing to attend a Donald Trump Jr meeting about adoption.

But if the exact same text had been posted without an @ symbol, it would have been OK? I don't understand that.

 

[Courtjester]

I think the political sub forum may have just saved FBGs. 

This is a great post. I have been part of this place since Cheatsheets and as such,  I can't remember a day in my life since then without FBGs.

Heck, 9-11, Columbine, OJ were all threads we were part on HERE as they were happening. I have always held the attitude that my subscription fee. helped in whatever some small part. to keep the forums running without a fee. That being said, the amount of anger and hostility that came about as a byproduct of this election, made this place unreadable to me and I told my wife, we can't support this site with our money anymore. 

That is until now!! This change in the FFA has made this place more like what I was used to--granted with a lot more "retirement advice"  "my daughter is in college" "my knee hurts" type threads than 20 years ago    , but the feeling of being able to come on here and just talk about things, without 10,000 Anti-Trump threads killing the front page is refreshing.

It would be nice if there were a Sort of NSW forum-(not talking nudity or porn--I can find that anywhere) but a place to put the yoga pants or whose hottest posts. I get the comments are worse than the pictures, idea, but I still believe boys will be boys and this would be a way for that to fly without posters worrying about clicking on something NSFW. I think there is a fine line that could be reached without going full G rated, but not going all R. 

Thanks Joe for seeing and fixing what was happening to one of my favorite places. 

 

[Joe Bryant]

Serious question. Can you point to an example? 

I post tweets with a persons comments and links to articles. Will I now be subject to a banning for that? Seems like we're going to quickly go overboard with ban-able offenses.

If somebody is "spamming tweets" just put them on ignore. 

I think @AAABatteries is talking about people spamming with their own twitter posts. Maybe he can post an example of what he's talking about.

But for sure, if you have a quote or tweet from someone that is relevant to the discussion, that's fine to share. Maybe I'm not understanding what he was talking about but spamming is never allowed. Maybe he can show an example. 

 

[AAABatteries]

I think @AAABatteries is talking about people spamming with their own twitter posts. Maybe he can post an example of what he's talking about.

But for sure, if you have a quote or tweet from someone that is relevant to the discussion, that's fine to share. Maybe I'm not understanding what he was talking about but spamming is never allowed. Maybe he can show an example. 

As Bucky suggested I've put these people on ignore now and I also don't want to point out specific posters - so, I don't have any examples but maybe others can.  Honestly, my stance for years was to never put anyone on ignore but because of Twitter posts and trolling aliases I probably have 30+ people on ignore now.  Maybe the Twitter problem I'm bringing up has or will go away in light of the new rules and if so then great.

 

[Joe Summer]

I think @AAABatteries is talking about people spamming with their own twitter posts. Maybe he can post an example of what he's talking about.

But for sure, if you have a quote or tweet from someone that is relevant to the discussion, that's fine to share. Maybe I'm not understanding what he was talking about but spamming is never allowed. Maybe he can show an example.

Based on Ramblin' Wreck's examples, it appears that they are talking about people who see something funny on Twitter and then post it here.

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with that, as long as the person isn't flooding the forum with dozens of Tweets on every page. It's no different than posting a link to a gif or a video from Youtube.

 

[AAABatteries]

Based on Ramblin' Wreck's examples, it appears that they are talking about people who see something funny on Twitter and then post it here.

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with that, as long as the person isn't flooding the forum with dozens of Tweets on every page. It's no different than posting a link to a gif or a video from Youtube.

I'm not really sure why people are playing coy here - there's a few people who post almost nothing but Tweets - they've been asked repeatedly to stop by other posters.  I don't care which side of the aisle these people are on, it's annoying.  And it's equally annoying when people retaliate with even more tweets just to troll.  If that's what Joe wants that's fine - I'll continue to use the ignore feature and move on but while we are having this conversation I thought I would point it out as I know there's a lot of people who have an issue with it.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Based on Ramblin' Wreck's examples, it appears that they are talking about people who see something funny on Twitter and then post it here.

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with that, as long as the person isn't flooding the forum with dozens of Tweets on every page. It's no different than posting a link to a gif or a video from Youtube.

I think you guys are talking about different things. Posting a link to a twitter post is fine. That's not spamming, that's citing a source for the opinion. 

@AAABatteries if you see this in the future, report it and we'll take a look at what you're talking about. 

 

[Scoresman]

That's what the ignore feature is for. Adding a wishy washy twitter rule will just cause more headaches. Remember that some of the moderators here will sometimes issue a 30 day ban without really knowing the context of everything. Can't blame them because there's a lot of content to moderate, but wishy washy rules like this is not a good idea. 

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

But if the exact same text had been posted without an @ symbol, it would have been OK? I don't understand that.

Actually I think if they posted the troll bait without the @ that would be directly against what Joe is asking us to stop doing in this thread.  I don't think putting the @ in front of it and claiming it's someone elses comments makes it any different.  But Joe can clarify.

 

[Politician Spock]

Based on Ramblin' Wreck's examples, it appears that they are talking about people who see something funny on Twitter and then post it here.

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with that, as long as the person isn't flooding the forum with dozens of Tweets on every page. It's no different than posting a link to a gif or a video from Youtube.

The bolded is the issue we're talking about.

As others have mentioned, posting tweets can add to a discussion, just like posting any other type of resource can. But if someone is here just copying and pasting tweets over and over gain, even if the tweets are relevant to the discussion, the person who is copying and pasting isn't adding anything relevant to the discussion. They're just spamming. Any external resource someone posts should be in addition to what they are adding to the discussion. 

 

[AAABatteries]

And believe me the Tweets are a thousand times better than the posts that just have as the reply - feel free to grandfather in Christo but the rest of that garbage is just that, garbage.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Actually I think if they posted the troll bait without the @ that would be directly against what Joe is asking us to stop doing in this thread.  I don't think putting the @ in front of it and claiming it's someone elses comments makes it any different.  But Joe can clarify.

Well yes, we want all the content posted here whether it's original or a link to something to stay within the guidelines.

 

[Dentist]

All my posts are spam, inappropriate, in the tennis forum, or unlicensed in your state dental advice, can I put myself on ignore? 

 

[AAABatteries]

We have a tennis forum?

 

[Koya]

All my posts are spam, inappropriate, in the tennis forum, or unlicensed in your state dental advice, can I put myself on ignore? 

You have't yet?

 

[Koya]

We have a tennis forum?

It's a sub-forum in FFCC (Country Club)

 

[AAABatteries]

All my posts are spam, inappropriate, in the tennis forum, or unlicensed in your state dental advice, can I put myself on ignore? 

You deserve to be on ignore for abandoning your nomarriage schtick.

 

[Koya]

You deserve to be on ignore for abandoning your nomarriage schtick.

Im sure his social life and wallet are well ensconced in ignore.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Lock this thread.