Was Cal Ripken a great player? A HOF player? (1 Viewer)

[Da Guru]

Looking at Cals career stats for 21 year career and playing more games and having more at bats over that span than anyone during that span.

276 career BA... solid but on the much lower end for a HOF player

431 career HRs around 21 HR a year average for career....so he was not a big power hitter

79 RBIs a year average..decent, but not for a cleanup and #3 hitter that he was, and not for the at bats he logged.

Those are good career stats in total, but Rip did not really have many big years. Good years..but not HOf years.

Thoughts..

 

[Woz]

Lots and lots of really good years = one great career

It's like Hank Aaron, never hit much over 40 hr per year which is something Brady Anderson did once yet he's arguably the greatest HR hitter ever.

 

[Block]

Keep in mind he played shortstop...400 some homers is a ton for that position.

 

[Englishteacher]

Looking at Cals career stats for 21 year career and playing more games and having more at bats over that span than anyone during that span.276 career BA... solid but on the much lower end for a HOF player431 career HRs around 21 HR a year average for career....so he was not a big power hitter79 RBIs a year average..decent, but not for a cleanup and #3 hitter that he was, and not for the at bats he logged.Those are good career stats in total, but Rip did not really have many big years. Good years..but not HOf years.Thoughts..

You're forgetting the era he played baseball. 21 HR a year was a big deal pre 90's. From a shortstop that was unheard of. 30 home runs was rarely eclipsed when he played mostly. Also, 50 guys a year didn't hit .300 like they do now.

 

[Da Guru]

Lots and lots of really good years = one great careerIt's like Hank Aaron, never hit much over 40 hr per year which is something Brady Anderson did once yet he's arguably the greatest HR hitter ever.

Mark McGuire has over 100 more HRs, about the same BA and RBIs and played 6 less years.McGuire had 6187 career at bats, Ripken 11331 almost double.

 

[Block]

Lots and lots of really good years = one great careerIt's like Hank Aaron, never hit much over 40 hr per year which is something Brady Anderson did once yet he's arguably the greatest HR hitter ever.

Mark McGuire has over 100 more HRs, about the same BA and RBIs and played 6 less years.

Played 1b and DH, got hurt all the time.

 

[cobalt_27]

Lots and lots of really good years = one great careerIt's like Hank Aaron, never hit much over 40 hr per year which is something Brady Anderson did once yet he's arguably the greatest HR hitter ever.

Mark McGuire has over 100 more HRs, about the same BA and RBIs and played 6 less years.

Played 1b and DH, got hurt all the time.

Juiced

 

[joffer]

Was Cal Ripken a great player? A HOF player?

yes. HTH

 

[Da Guru]

Lots and lots of really good years = one great careerIt's like Hank Aaron, never hit much over 40 hr per year which is something Brady Anderson did once yet he's arguably the greatest HR hitter ever.

Mark McGuire has over 100 more HRs, about the same BA and RBIs and played 6 less years.

Played 1b and DH, got hurt all the time.

True..but stats were almost the same. Mcguire did not DH much.I am not pimping MM..just comparing the two stat wise.

 

[whoknew]

Lots and lots of really good years = one great careerIt's like Hank Aaron, never hit much over 40 hr per year which is something Brady Anderson did once yet he's arguably the greatest HR hitter ever.

Mark McGuire has over 100 more HRs, about the same BA and RBIs and played 6 less years.

Played 1b and DH, got hurt all the time.

True..but stats were almost the same. Mcguire did not DH much.I am not pimping MM..just comparing the two stat wise.

You can't ignore the fact that Ripken played the most valuable position on the field -- better than almost anyone before him, and McGwire played 1B -- a much, much less important defensive position.Ripken was one of the top 2-3 shortstops of all time.

 

[Ozymandias]

Ripken played shortstop, a position for which hitting is not the primary consideration, so to judge him on his hitting alone is not correct. I believe he won several Golden Gloves.

 

[St.Anger]

ripken changed the game by revolutionizing the SS position. w/o Ripken there might not have been the great SS that followed him like Jeter, A-Rod, Nomar, and the like. They might have been big leaguers but they would have been at other positions.

 

[Chase Stuart]

How many more HRs did Ripken hit in the '80s than the 2nd best SS? Than the 10th best?

 

[The Jerminator]

When you consider that he was INDUCTED into the HOF yesterday then I can say with certainty that, by definition, the answers are: yes and yes.

How great? and SHOULD he be in the HOF? are different questions.

The answer to those are: VERY great and HELL YES!

When you consider how difficult it is to get into Cooperstown, let alone on the first ballot, let alone with Gwynn in his first year of eligibility at the same time (fewer votes to go around) let alone at a 90%+ rate...

This is like asking if Tom Brady plays well in big games.

Cal Ripken's career was destined for the HOF, its a no-brainer!

 

[Englishteacher]

How many more HRs did Ripken hit in the '80s than the 2nd best SS? Than the 10th best?

good points........about the only other guy in his era that hit HR's at the SS position that comes immediately to mind is Robin Yount

 

[Englishteacher]

Ripken played shortstop, a position for which hitting is not the primary consideration, so to judge him on his hitting alone is not correct. I believe he won several Golden Gloves.

ummm..... RIpken was still one of the best hitters of his time AND played short

 

[Assani Fisher]

Lots and lots of really good years = one great careerIt's like Hank Aaron, never hit much over 40 hr per year which is something Brady Anderson did once yet he's arguably the greatest HR hitter ever.

Mark McGuire has over 100 more HRs, about the same BA and RBIs and played 6 less years.

Played 1b and DH, got hurt all the time.

True..but stats were almost the same. Mcguire did not DH much.I am not pimping MM..just comparing the two stat wise.

This is like saying that Chris Webber sucks as a passer because he only averages around 4 assists per game or that Jason Kidd sucks as a rebounder because he only averages around 6.5 per game. You absolutely have to look at it relative to position.If anything I think that Ripken is undervalued. Three reasons:1. Ripken revolutionized the shortstop position, and its easy to forget how dominant he was over his peers since one generation later shortstops are much better offensive threats.2. We forget about how low scoring that era was. Comparing him to today's era is an extreme disservice.3. The streak, while a great accomplishment, has taken some focus of what a great player he truly was:Ripken led the entire league in VORP(value over replacement player) 3 timesHe was a 2 time gold glove winner at the toughest position in baseball despite having to contend with Omar Vizquel throughout his career. In his best year(1991), according to Chris Dial's system, Ripken saved 25 runs with his glove when compared to an average SS! To give you an example of how tough it was for him to win a gold glove, he only made 3 errors in 162 games in 1990 yet he didn't get it. Except for his rookie year, he made the all star game every single year of his career. He also was the starter for all but one of those.When measured by WARP3, Ripken's 1991 season was the 4th greatest season in baseball history! Who ranks ahead of him? Pitcher Walter Johnson's 1913 season, pitcher Amos Rusie's 1894 season, and Babe Ruth's 1923 season. Think about that list for a second.Edited to add the stats of those 3 other seasons to give you a comparison of the league Ripken's 1991 season is in:Babe Ruth in 1923: 152 games, 205 hits, .393 batting average, 131 RBIs, 41 HRs, 151 runs scored, 170 walks, 399 total bases, .542 on base%, .764 slugging, 1.307 OPS, 17 steals, 4 hit by pitches, 4 sacrificesWalter Johnson in 1913: 36-7 record, 1.14 ERA, 2 saves, 243 strikeouts, 38 walks, 232 hits, 0.780 WHIP, 29 complete games, 11 shutouts, 346 innings pitched.......as a hitter in 134 at bats he added: .261 avg, 2 HRs, 14 RBI, 12 runs scored, 2 steals, 5 walks, .726 OPSAmos Rusie in 1894: 36-13, 2.78 ERA, 444 innings pitched, 45 complete games, 3 shutouts, 1.41 WHIP, 195 strikeouts, 200 walks, 426 hits.....as a hitter in 186 at bats he added: .280 avg, .700 OPS, 3 HRs, 20 runs, 26 RBI, 5 walksIn 1991 Ripken won the AL MVP, All Star GAme MVP, Gold Glove, Louisville Slugger Silver Slugger Award, AP Player of the Year, and Sporting News Player of the Year. The only other player in MLB history to have won all of those was Maury Wills in 1962. Oh yeah...he also won the home run derby that year for good measure(and set the all time record at the time with 12 home runs in it)Ripken was so good that year that he was the first player ever to win the AL MVP while playing for a losing team.Rookie of the Year2 time MVPThe only player in AL history with more than one All Star MVP award.8 Silver Slugger AwardsThe Bill James Historical Abstract ranks him as the 3rd greatest SS of all timeHe just received 98.53% of HOF votes- the highest EVER for a non-pitcher.

 

[Englishteacher]

Looking at Cals career stats for 21 year career and playing more games and having more at bats over that span than anyone during that span.

276 career BA... solid but on the much lower end for a HOF player

431 career HRs around 21 HR a year average for career....so he was not a big power hitter

79 RBIs a year average..decent, but not for a cleanup and #3 hitter that he was, and not for the at bats he logged.

Those are good career stats in total, but Rip did not really have many big years. Good years..but not HOf years.

Thoughts..

Dude, how old are you? I'm 34 and I know the decades in which Ripken played.... the game goes through changes..... generally, you're going to judge a player by what he did against the players he was playing against..... Ripken was very dominant...you want to know the greatest power hitter of all time? Ruth! guy dwarfed the players he played against in his time period... If I remember correctly, RUth hit over double the amount of home runs as the next guy one year in a dead ball era....

advantages players have now...... guys have bulked up considerably.... ballparks have been made smaller...... expansion has watered down pitching..... guys are on roids..... strike zone is ridiculously small.... ball is livelier.....

you want to know the "Home RUn King" from one year of MLB? Frank Baker. Who? Who you ask? The guy lead the league in home runs one year. A tremendous accomplishment! You know how many he hit the year he was the King? 8!!!! And his name is Frank Home Run Baker.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Baker

 

[Darth Cheney]

Lots and lots of really good years = one great careerIt's like Hank Aaron, never hit much over 40 hr per year which is something Brady Anderson did once yet he's arguably the greatest HR hitter ever.

Mark McGuire has over 100 more HRs, about the same BA and RBIs and played 6 less years.

Played 1b and DH, got hurt all the time.

True..but stats were almost the same. Mcguire did not DH much.I am not pimping MM..just comparing the two stat wise.

You can't ignore the fact that Ripken played the most valuable position on the field -- better than almost anyone before him, and McGwire played 1B -- a much, much less important defensive position.Ripken was one of the top 2-3 shortstops of all time.

Is he a SS though? I thought he played more games at 3B...which I do think cheapens his numbers a bit. Nevertheless, Cal Ripken is a HOF player.

 

[Darth Cheney]

Lots and lots of really good years = one great career

It's like Hank Aaron, never hit much over 40 hr per year which is something Brady Anderson did once yet he's arguably the greatest HR hitter ever.

Mark McGuire has over 100 more HRs, about the same BA and RBIs and played 6 less years.

Played 1b and DH, got hurt all the time.

True..but stats were almost the same. Mcguire did not DH much.I am not pimping MM..just comparing the two stat wise.

This is like saying that Chris Webber sucks as a passer because he only averages around 4 assists per game or that Jason Kidd sucks as a rebounder because he only averages around 6.5 per game. You absolutely have to look at it relative to position.If anything I think that Ripken is undervalued. Three reasons:

1. Ripken revolutionized the shortstop position, and its easy to forget how dominant he was over his peers since one generation later shortstops are much better offensive threats.

2. We forget about how low scoring that era was. Comparing him to today's era is an extreme disservice.

3. The streak, while a great accomplishment, has taken some focus of what a great player he truly was:

Ripken led the entire league in VORP(value over replacement player) 3 times

He was a 2 time gold glove winner at the toughest position in baseball despite having to contend with Omar Vizquel throughout his career. In his best year(1991), according to Chris Dial's system, Ripken saved 25 runs with his glove when compared to an average SS! To give you an example of how tough it was for him to win a gold glove, he only made 3 errors in 162 games in 1990 yet he didn't get it.

Except for his rookie year, he made the all star game every single year of his career. He also was the starter for all but one of those.

When measured by WARP3, Ripken's 1991 season was the 4th greatest season in baseball history! Who ranks ahead of him? Pitcher Walter Johnson's 1913 season, pitcher Amos Rusie's 1894 season, and Babe Ruth's 1923 season. Think about that list for a second.

Edited to add the stats of those 3 other seasons to give you a comparison of the league Ripken's 1991 season is in:

Babe Ruth in 1923: 152 games, 205 hits, .393 batting average, 131 RBIs, 41 HRs, 151 runs scored, 170 walks, 399 total bases, .542 on base%, .764 slugging, 1.307 OPS, 17 steals, 4 hit by pitches, 4 sacrifices

Walter Johnson in 1913: 36-7 record, 1.14 ERA, 2 saves, 243 strikeouts, 38 walks, 232 hits, 0.780 WHIP, 29 complete games, 11 shutouts, 346 innings pitched.......as a hitter in 134 at bats he added: .261 avg, 2 HRs, 14 RBI, 12 runs scored, 2 steals, 5 walks, .726 OPS

Amos Rusie in 1894: 36-13, 2.78 ERA, 444 innings pitched, 45 complete games, 3 shutouts, 1.41 WHIP, 195 strikeouts, 200 walks, 426 hits.....as a hitter in 186 at bats he added: .280 avg, .700 OPS, 3 HRs, 20 runs, 26 RBI, 5 walks

In 1991 Ripken won the AL MVP, All Star GAme MVP, Gold Glove, Louisville Slugger Silver Slugger Award, AP Player of the Year, and Sporting News Player of the Year. The only other player in MLB history to have won all of those was Maury Wills in 1962. Oh yeah...he also won the home run derby that year for good measure(and set the all time record at the time with 12 home runs in it)

Ripken was so good that year that he was the first player ever to win the AL MVP while playing for a losing team.

Rookie of the Year

2 time MVP

The only player in AL history with more than one All Star MVP award.

8 Silver Slugger Awards

The Bill James Historical Abstract ranks him as the 3rd greatest SS of all time

He just received 98.53% of HOF votes- the highest EVER for a non-pitcher.

I think its a stretch to say the first two bolded things had anything to do with him making the HOF....I think the third bolded thing is partly a result of Ripken being such a good guy and ambassador of the game.

That being said, he deserves to be a HOFer. (I feel the need to keep saying this in my Ripken HOF posts because I live and work on the cusp of "Ripken country" and I've gotten into it with Ripken fans before........it's not pretty.)

 

[David Yudkin]

Ripken played 2302 games at SS and 675 at 3B.

 

[DCThunder]

Defensively, Ripken didn't have great range as a SS, but he excelled at positioning himself so he didn't NEED to have great range. He'd play someone more in the hole, and then the ball would come right to him so he didn't need to make that backhand lunge, whirl and throw to first play that's so flashy. Or he'd shade up the middle and get balls behind second.

 

[Ghost Rider]

You can't ignore the fact that Ripken played the most valuable position on the field -- better than almost anyone before him, and McGwire played 1B -- a much, much less important defensive position.Ripken was one of the top 2-3 shortstops of all time.

He is a clear-cut HoFer, but no way did Ripken play SS better than almost anyone before him, and no way is he one of the top 2 or 3 shortstops of all-time.

 

[Koya]

Context is everything.

(1) ERA - Ripkens prime was in an offensively challanged era. 30 HRs was a LOT. 35 was HUGE. 25 was very good and 20 meant you had good pop in your bat.

(2) Position - Not only did Ripken play shortstop, he played shortstop at a time when there were three "great" offensive shortstops and a number of good ones until he played. Of those three (Wagner, Vaughan and Banks), only Banks had power in the modern sense of the word. Ripken CHANGED THE MOLD for a position. He showed that a big guy with power could strive to play SS in the Majors and that paved the way for the Arods of the world to follow.

(3) Watching him play - when you watched Ripken play, when you consider the MVPs, the utterly solid defense, the great teamate aspect - the guy was a winning player when he had other players around him.

If you just look at numbers through the jaded eyes of the steroid era, a LOT of GREAT ballplayers will seem dull by comparison.

 

[Sammy3469]

Defensively, Ripken didn't have great range as a SS, but he excelled at positioning himself so he didn't NEED to have great range. He'd play someone more in the hole, and then the ball would come right to him so he didn't need to make that backhand lunge, whirl and throw to first play that's so flashy. Or he'd shade up the middle and get balls behind second.

Gammons would argue with you on that point. He seems to think Ripken did have great range, but because he was so big and such a good athlete he made many out of this world play look routine while someone like Ozzie or Vizquel made the out of the world plays look out of this world because they needed to dive to get to the ball. Oh and anyone who doesn't think Ripken is HOF is either fishing or never watched baseball in the 80s.

 

[The Man from Laramie]

Cal Ripken is personally responsible for over a season's worth of wins, according to his WARP score (170.7).

That compares to 124.1 for his fellow inductee, Tony Gwynn.

lookiing at other SS in the Hall,

Ernie Banks: 128.3

Honus Wagner: 200.8

Robin Yount:136.8

slam dunk in my book. As has been said before, the guy reinvented the position.

 

[Tau837]

Wow, haven't been in the baseball forum for a long time. First thread I clicked on asked if Frank Thomas is better than Mantle was. Now this. This is clearly not the Shark Pool for baseball...

As most have said here, Ripken is one of the few best shortstops ever and is absolutely deserving of the HOF. Duh.

 

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

You can't ignore the fact that Ripken played the most valuable position on the field -- better than almost anyone before him, and McGwire played 1B -- a much, much less important defensive position.Ripken was one of the top 2-3 shortstops of all time.

He is a clear-cut HoFer, but no way did Ripken play SS better than almost anyone before him, and no way is he one of the top 2 or 3 shortstops of all-time.

The technology of gloves has evolved, and he's not a defender on the level of Ozzie or Belanger or any of those type guys, BUT the guy once played an entire season at shortstop and made 3 errors. That is so amazing, its beyond belief!

 

[Greco]