joffer
Footballguy
bad year for the "xperts". KFFL is 832 out of 840
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WCOFF (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter East Coast Bias
- Start date
joffer
Footballguy
i agree, and putting the poll up on the message board was another bad idea. WCOFF has always been a well run event, but i think they're handling this poorly.
Clayton and I are running the FBG team in WCOFF. Naming it footballguys.com probably wasn't the best idea given how things have turned out, but that has nothing to do with whether WCOFF can be talked about on the boards here or not. I have no idea why the threads keep getting moved here so someone else will have to answer that.
As for the current situation, it won't impact our team at all (obviously), but I think they really messed up by letting the early bids stand. IMO, that shouldn't have even been an option.
WCOFF leadership really dropped the ball on this one.
As for the current situation, it won't impact our team at all (obviously), but I think they really messed up by letting the early bids stand. IMO, that shouldn't have even been an option.
WCOFF leadership really dropped the ball on this one.
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David Dodds
Administrator
I moved this back to the Shark Pool. I think that's where this belongs.
David Dodds
Administrator
I don't get having the poll at all. Everyone that had bids in (and got there players cheaply) are going to vote to allow things to stand. I think the test is to change the date to Wednesday. Had the waivers been run on Wednesday instead of Friday, would that be fair? What would be the remedy? 12 hours is a substantial mistake. But it's a computer mistake. The rules say they would be run at 8pm. You undo all of the waivers and rerun. Yes some blind bids were exposed to everyone. But everyone has that information. That is the only fair solution. Not perfect, but fair. I guarantee a few teams who are in dogfights to try to get a week 12 playoff game to get in the big dance want a chance to get the best possible replacement QB (let's assume they have used McNabb all season). I do believe their action here will lead to a lawsuit that they are going to have a hard time defending. If they rolled back the results and reran AFTER the waiver time, their decision is a lot easier to support from a legal standpoint.
joffer
Footballguy
this is from the satellite league rules, but i think the rule is the same in the main event. kind of a catch all
Where did Emil get this consensus from?
there isn't a consensus to let the early bids stand either.
the poll they conducted, which was seriously flawed to begin with, basically turned out 50/50.
the poll they conducted, which was seriously flawed to begin with, basically turned out 50/50.
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East Coast Bias
Footballguy
S
Snicks
Guest
the vote is approx 53-49 right now...
there are 800 some odd teams..
a friend of mine is torqued at the decision...
there are 800 some odd teams..
a friend of mine is torqued at the decision...
as was said a few times here(and rarely replied to).Who would he have gotten? What WW guy is a big deal to him?
Reaper
Footballguy
I voted to re-run.But, of course it's screwed up either way.Good thing my team stinks anyway.
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i find having polls on a message board that maybe 90% of the league doesn't go to to set rules is a bit odd.i am looking forward to some other alternatives next year as i do not feel like driving to a laughlin casino to go to the draft.
Reaper
Footballguy
The other thing... If you went to the board to vote, you needed to have a certain amount of posts to your username to vote in the poll.... There's a huuuuuuuuge thread with people bumping the thread to get voting privledges.
Reaper
Footballguy
FBG's High Stakes Challenge at Cheetahs 07'
am i your friend snicks?
Here's a situation. Let's say a team at WR has Houshmansada, Glenn, Boldin, Coles, Santana Moss, and some other scrub. Well Boldin and Coles are on bye and Santana looks like he'll be out. That person might need some WR to fill in this week b/c of injury. Maybe he was waiting to see the status on Santana friday afternoon to see how much he wanted to bid on Brandon Lloyd. Another team had placed a bid on Lloyd on Thursday for $1. Now that team who placed it on Thursday gets Lloyd and the first team had no shot at him at all.That is very flawed.
http://www.profootballreference.com/games/LloyBr00.htm#2006good luck with that.
also the bye weeks are the drafter's or the NFL's fault not WCOFFs.
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S
Snicks
Guest
here is the solution to the problem...
look familiar.....lol
Sorry, either your membership has not yet been approved or the board administrators have removed your ability to post to this board. We cannot allow you to perform this action as a result.
look familiar.....lol
Sorry, either your membership has not yet been approved or the board administrators have removed your ability to post to this board. We cannot allow you to perform this action as a result.
GregR_2
Footballguy
I'm not sure that it matters, does it?I mean, if you're implying what I think you are, that there isn't anyone really worthwhile right now, that doesn't really make a compelling argument either way. One can say, "It doesn't matter so let it stand" and another can answer, "if it doesn't matter then there's no reason not to reverse it and follow the rules." When you come down to it, you still need to make the decision on what is the most fair for all the teams.
BIGGjohnny
Footballguy
My team is in the Week 12 playoff hunt in the WCOFF. I put my bids in on Thursday assuming I would not get either of the players that I bid on. I usually put bids in on Friday but knew I was going to see Borat (hilarious BTW!!) and I was not going to be around the computer on Friday.
I only have 5 dollars left in my free agent pot. But I bid $1 on Damon Huard, $1 on Vince Young, and $1 on Owen Daniels. One of my playoff challengers would have outbid me on Daniels (I guarantee that becuase he has LJ Smith on a bye) and by me bidding on the last 2 starting QBs on the wire, my other playoff challenger (he has McNabb on a bye) had to pick up Andrew Walter this week on the second bid. (neither participated in the first bid. I ate up all the waiver wire talent with my $1 bids and they will be on my bench!
I know that I had an unfair advantage but I really do not care. I was shocked when the bids were not rolled back, but I loved it!!
Win if you can.....Lose if you must.....But ALWAYS CHEAT!!!
Kindly
BIGG Johnny
I only have 5 dollars left in my free agent pot. But I bid $1 on Damon Huard, $1 on Vince Young, and $1 on Owen Daniels. One of my playoff challengers would have outbid me on Daniels (I guarantee that becuase he has LJ Smith on a bye) and by me bidding on the last 2 starting QBs on the wire, my other playoff challenger (he has McNabb on a bye) had to pick up Andrew Walter this week on the second bid. (neither participated in the first bid. I ate up all the waiver wire talent with my $1 bids and they will be on my bench!
I know that I had an unfair advantage but I really do not care. I was shocked when the bids were not rolled back, but I loved it!!
Win if you can.....Lose if you must.....But ALWAYS CHEAT!!!
Kindly
BIGG Johnny
Sure, I don't disagree with that. My point is simply the overreaction of some. You'd think they lost their first pick to get LT2. (There's some other boards linked here) OK so ya lost 30(?) yards per week Lloyd and now you'll get player Y. There's a degree of anger and frustration that just doesn't seem warranted to me.
BIGGjohnny
Footballguy
One other thing.....there was about 250+ posts on the WCOFF message board late Friday afternoon. Everybody was complaining one way or another. The WCOFF was in a NO WIN situation. Some owners threatening to get lawyers, demanding refunds, and many people vowing not to return next year. I found it as some real quality entertainment!
After the final decision was made, ALL the negative posts automatically dissapeared like they never happened. And now if something pertaining to this topic is posted on the WCOFF message board, I guarantee they will delete it right away as not to stir up everyone else. VERY SHADY!!
I predict November 3, 2006 will live in history as the day the WCOFF started their collapse from atop the fantasy football landscape....
Kindly
BIGG Johnny
After the final decision was made, ALL the negative posts automatically dissapeared like they never happened. And now if something pertaining to this topic is posted on the WCOFF message board, I guarantee they will delete it right away as not to stir up everyone else. VERY SHADY!!
I predict November 3, 2006 will live in history as the day the WCOFF started their collapse from atop the fantasy football landscape....
Kindly
BIGG Johnny
VICK-tory
Footballguy
They need to ditch xpert sports, when I did WCOFF there were no problems. Great fun all year. It's still a premier event , I doubt they "topple" from the top of the FF Contests over a website bug. Shee-ite happens! Those other ones (NFFC, etc) love it but in the end they still don't hold a candle to WCOFF and they know this ..
BigTuna
Footballguy
I'm glad I didn't participate. Sounds like its being ran by a bunch of noobs! Their software should not even allow such a mistake to be made.
again, good luck
mine?
radballs
Footballguy
Bri,
Why don't you get or understand that it doesn't matter and is irrelevant about how deep the FA pool is? It's all about what should be fair in such a situation. How do you handle it to minimize the most pain league wide?
Option 1 was to allow people to keep the players they bid on even they were processed 12 hours early.
Option 2 was to roll it back and allow all league members to bid on all FAs despite the fact that some of the leauge members' bids were revealed.
In my mind, option 2 was the only choice by a mile.
Why don't you get or understand that it doesn't matter and is irrelevant about how deep the FA pool is? It's all about what should be fair in such a situation. How do you handle it to minimize the most pain league wide?
Option 1 was to allow people to keep the players they bid on even they were processed 12 hours early.
Option 2 was to roll it back and allow all league members to bid on all FAs despite the fact that some of the leauge members' bids were revealed.
In my mind, option 2 was the only choice by a mile.
buck naked
Footballguy
Lenny's repeated deletion of negative posts is a major service problem. It truly cranks me off. I am a 5 year vet, yet his actions in doing so are making me seriously question where my thousands of dollars will end up next fall.Grow some skin, dude.
I've restated my post already. It's that IMO guys are overreacting as if they had LT coming off the WW not some week 9 WW pickup. I mean guys are talking about not making the playoffs or their season is shot and carrying on and on esp on the other boards. You'd think they lost their first born with some of those guys. I don't dispute that a glitch would stink. I haven't. It's not the reason some of these complainers are .500 or drafted 3-4 guys on bye etc. It's so dramatic it's past a point of reasonning with them. As an extremely passionate FF guy that has put his foot in his mouth tons I know...I just know...some of the guys I read today will think they overreacted in a few months when they cool down. Wrong? yes. End of the world? no.
I have much respect for Emil. I thought Emil handled it well initially by putting it to a vote. Then it came out that ya needed X amount of posts to vote. I'm not sure if a small sampling is suffice or if that's a wrong move. Then it was 52% to 48% or some near 50/50 split. The more I hear about the voting makes me wonder. I wonder if Emil had a good idea "put it up to a vote" but all in all he got "next to" no answer from it and thought "oh sh". What choice does he have at that point but to go with 52%? If he didn't the hecklers would have gone berzerk. Really a tough spot, trying to appease tons of angry FFers in a matter of hours. I wouldn't have wanted to be Emil or Lenny today.You asked how I would handle it-
From the unpressured catbird seat. NFL.com does a stat where they list most common WW moves and well WW movement and such. I'd have hunted thru whatever on the server to get those stats for WCOFF. If 85% of the teams moved for a WR. I'd do the waivers as a mess and pull a WR from the required starting lineup this week. IE 9 instead of 10 starters or 10 instead of 11...whatever. If they did or didn't get the WR, it wouldn't matter. If you've got strong WRs, put that extra one in as your flex then.
QB WW folks would feel they weren't addressed-
My understanding is QBs are horded in that league like gold. This would not be the first time an owner felt the WW pickings for QBs was slim. There was a couple mentioned here, a guy missed out on some eh QB and wound up with Walter. From the feedback I've gotten, this kinda QB WW stuff happens every week if you weren't one of the horders. (hord or hoard?)
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tommyGunZ
Footballguy
that doesn't fly. re-running the bids makes the most sense. inadvertent disclosure of the early bids is less significant than players being assigned to teams w/o giving some teams the opportunity to acquire them.
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radballs
Footballguy
radballs
Footballguy
Bri,I usually respect your opinions but your argument that it shouldn't be a big deal carries little weight when we're talking about trying to uphold rules. When multiple rules are compromised, decisions have to be made to lessen the infringement amongst all contest participants. IMO, they went the wrong way and it shouldn't have even been close. To be honest, this whole thing didn't affect me as I was only trying to make one move across all 6 of my WCOFF related leagues so no big deal TO ME. But, for the integrity of the event, it makes no sense to bring up whether or not there is relevance to the available depth of FAs at any position.
Take another example, say you're in a league that processes waivers on Thursday afternoon. If the site hosting your league "accidentally" processes your waivers on Tuesday night, what would your solution be given that every league mate saw the bids of those who had already put their blind bids in by Tuesday night. Should the people that normally put their bids in on Wednesday lose out on their ability to bid on those players who were bid on by the early bidders. Seriously, what makes the most sense in that scenario? It's almost like people are saying it's not such a big deal because it was only 12 hours early. If it was two or three days early, what would your decision be then?
rad, I think you're misunderstanding me discussing some overreacting to include everyone. I was referring to people acting like it's the end of the world, acting like they missed out on LT, acting as if this week's WW moves is the reason their .500 etc. IMO, and I've been that type overreacting guy, they're useless to the debate discussion over at WCOFF. Too heated too emotional to discuss it rationally. There's plenty others to discuss it with, heck maybe 10-12 in this thread alone that would be fine.
As I mentioned, I think initially a vote was a fair or well intentionned option by Emil however that didn't play out to sway one way really, from what I understand.
I do see that it could affect the 4th WR or flex or whatever. I mentioned it's wrong and a glitch would stink.
I don't see how WCOFF guys could make everyone happy.
If no changes, correct me if I'm wrong-
Last minute bidders missed out
early bidders cleaned up
If they undo it, early bidders get their bids seen and that angers them. If they don't undo it, last minute bidders get angry thinking the early bidders got some players at a value or they get players they wouldn't have as they'd have been outbid by the last minute bidders.
How do you appease everyone?
You say go back to the essential thing, the rulebook. OK I see that, it's a sorta bible for the league. However, still stuck with one side being unhappy right?
That's why I suggested for them to dig into something on their server and find out all the WW moves. React to those stats, that's somethig tangible and not emotions and feelings. Find the position most WW went thru for(almost always WR at NFL.com, usually clear clear edge)Remove that single spot or position from the starting lineup. It removes any advantage/disadvantage or most especially with the flex spot to cover. You don't like my solution, that's cool. Just shootin the sh trying to come up with something, it's an irrelevant suggestion of mine.
I hope this clears it up.
As I mentioned, I think initially a vote was a fair or well intentionned option by Emil however that didn't play out to sway one way really, from what I understand.
I do see that it could affect the 4th WR or flex or whatever. I mentioned it's wrong and a glitch would stink.
I don't see how WCOFF guys could make everyone happy.
If no changes, correct me if I'm wrong-
Last minute bidders missed out
early bidders cleaned up
If they undo it, early bidders get their bids seen and that angers them. If they don't undo it, last minute bidders get angry thinking the early bidders got some players at a value or they get players they wouldn't have as they'd have been outbid by the last minute bidders.
How do you appease everyone?
You say go back to the essential thing, the rulebook. OK I see that, it's a sorta bible for the league. However, still stuck with one side being unhappy right?
That's why I suggested for them to dig into something on their server and find out all the WW moves. React to those stats, that's somethig tangible and not emotions and feelings. Find the position most WW went thru for(almost always WR at NFL.com, usually clear clear edge)Remove that single spot or position from the starting lineup. It removes any advantage/disadvantage or most especially with the flex spot to cover. You don't like my solution, that's cool. Just shootin the sh trying to come up with something, it's an irrelevant suggestion of mine.
I hope this clears it up.
radballs
Footballguy
It's cool. Just a very frustrating day for WCOFFers to say the least. Like I've said, this didn't really affect me or a lot of people I'm sure. Had I saved a lot of my FA bucks for later in the season and needed key pickups, I would have been much more pissed. I agree there's been some overreacting but I think most of it has to do with, not how much it affected teams but how much it could have affected teams had this occurred at another time (like earlier in the season). And, how about how could something like this happen at all? And then, how was it handled by management? The last couple questions is what burns most people's britches, not necessarily if it directly affected them or not.
purestrength
Footballguy
I'm somewhat computer-challenged, so I'm wondering how this could ever happen to begin with, although I probably wouldn't understand the explanation anyway.Are they positive this can never happen again?Just to be sure, I think I'll make all my bids after the Monday night game from now on.
GreekFreak
Footballguy
I was a WCOFFer from the start, but they lost me a few years ago when they switched to Xpertsports.
What a joke that site is, the original site TQstats was perfect and never had problems.
Looks like Lenny tried to save a few bucks by using xpert and its cost him more in headaches every year
What a joke that site is, the original site TQstats was perfect and never had problems.
Looks like Lenny tried to save a few bucks by using xpert and its cost him more in headaches every year
Reaper
Footballguy
Bri.... There's what 800 Teams or so What it comes down to is, most of us won't really be effected.. My team is 4-4 and down in points, I'm not that charged up about it, I probably won't do the WCOFF again, but, no biggie... THE PROBLEM IS... Those teams on the bubble or fighting for a playoff spot. And there are FA's out there like i said in my leage Jake Plummer and JP Loseman that could mean a huge difference to the outcome of that team.. If my team was on the bubble and I needed Jake Plummer and wound up with, I don't know, lets say JP Loseman instead and Plummer gets 30 points and loseman gets 2 and I figured out that that was the difference in a playoff spot, and now we're talking some decent $$$$$$$$$$$... OHHHHHHHHH Bri, I'd be so Freaking Furious.... AND, it's Gonna happen.. Some teams out there WILL be effected. Will it be 1, 10, 20, 100? I don't know....Maybe they can say at the end they can investigate who was or might have been effected and try to reimburse those teams..... It won't be THAT hard to do the work and I think they're going to need to do it to keep the reputation of the league.I see what you're saying in a local $100.00 league most people might not want to be bothered but, to some in this league it was a HUGE decision to spend this kind of money and it does up the ante and it does up the intensity and feeling of those involved....Again, lucky for me my team stinks ; )
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Greek,
Xpert has had a decent reputation and I see them mentioned here alot all summer long. Almost never see TQ stats mentioned. I don't see how Lenny would have known.
I hear ya Reaper. Not sure what I could say to that.
Strategy Q, not really part of this thread, off topic-
Curious why in a pretty well known QB hording league, you wait til last minute to get a bye week cover. (You said no, but if) If you were to play next year, would you manage QBs any different? Draft another? Or they go too early, you'd still roll this way?
Xpert has had a decent reputation and I see them mentioned here alot all summer long. Almost never see TQ stats mentioned. I don't see how Lenny would have known.
I hear ya Reaper. Not sure what I could say to that.
Strategy Q, not really part of this thread, off topic-
Curious why in a pretty well known QB hording league, you wait til last minute to get a bye week cover. (You said no, but if) If you were to play next year, would you manage QBs any different? Draft another? Or they go too early, you'd still roll this way?
Jeff Pasquino
Footballguy
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