We need to talk about PFF (1 Viewer)

[Ministry of Pain]

I remember a few years ago I really started to like their ratings but I never thought they would be the gold standard referenced by other entities like ESPN, CBS, NFLN when they are doing analysis of players entering free agency as an example(PFF had Player X in their top 25 three years in a row)...and my questions/comments are for all of you.

Do you put real validity in their rankings?

Do they have a patent on rating all these positions? Why don't other sites like FBG with large staffs do their own?

Has anyone looked to see if their rankings indicate how skill position players will do? A 3 year history lesson or something.

if you use their ratings or rankings, how do you use them? Have you had success with them or does it lead you astray?

For myself personally, I like the site and the rankings/ratings, not sure it is bulletproof by any means but I enjoy combing over the stats. I realize it is a competitor to FBG but at the same time no one else is doing what they do and I find that hard to believe. Certainly NFL.com could do the same thing if they desired.

Another example would be a starting group of OL where the entire starting 5 come back. Do the game ratings from the year before carry over to the next year?

Who is doing these ratings? Do they have a Sigmund of their own just and watching games on Sunday?

All feedback appreciated.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

PFF is good at some things, and awful at others. For instance, their CB ratings are way off year after year because they don't know who has what responsibility from play to play. They don't know who to blame.

 

[Steed]

They have a few weaknesses. Their RB elusiveness rating seems to always miss on Shady McCoy, how is that possible? But overall they have a great product that even some NFL teams use, and their ff section is well done as well.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

PFF is good at some things, and awful at others. For instance, their CB ratings are way off year after year because they don't know who has what responsibility from play to play. They don't know who to blame.

Can you explain a little more? I do understand what you are saying but how do we know that's the case? I like the rec/yds/TD they attach to the DBs but yeah, who knows who covers what? Are they using coaches film?

PFF=Pro Football Focus for anyone that might not know what we are talking about.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

PFF is good at some things, and awful at others. For instance, their CB ratings are way off year after year because they don't know who has what responsibility from play to play. They don't know who to blame.

Can you explain a little more? I do understand what you are saying but how do we know that's the case? I like the rec/yds/TD they attach to the DBs but yeah, who knows who covers what? Are they using coaches film?PFF=Pro Football Focus for anyone that might not know what we are talking about.

It's been a while, but I followed somebody on twitter who did an entire breakdown of game film compared to PFF's ratings, and it turns out that they aren't all super knowledgeable about schemes. Someone who knows what they're looking at can break it down and properly assign blame based on the coverages, and PFF doesn't have a great record in that department apparently. For instance, the CB is SUPPOSED to release the WR to the FS on a particular play, but because PFF doesn't know what they're really looking at, they assign the blame on an allowed catch to the CB.

Wish I could remember more or link it for you, but it stuck with me and that's all I've got right now.

 

[Englishteacher]

MOP, PM me.

 

[Adam Harstad]

PFF is good at some things, and awful at others. For instance, their CB ratings are way off year after year because they don't know who has what responsibility from play to play. They don't know who to blame.

Yeah, they try to create scheme-independent ratings, but they aren't great at achieving scheme independence.

Last year, Pro Football Focus was really down on Elvis Dumervil. They were calling him an ineffective player, and listed him as one of the most overvalued passrushers in the NFL. IAOFM, a Denver Broncos fan blog, wrote about how Dumervil's decreased production was really a result of scheme. Basically, Denver was lining Dumervil up out wide to create stress on the offense's protection schemes. Dumervil's primary job was to throw protection into disarray and create openings for Von Miller to create pressure. Any pressure Dumervil created was a bonus. PFF was grading Dumervil, however, as if his primary job was creating pressure, which he really wasn't doing a ton of for the number of passrushing snaps he was logging. So, because they weren't accounting for scheme, PFF thought Dumervil was a wildly overrated and ineffective player.

What happened? Well, Dumervil went to Baltimore, who put him in a scheme where his primary job was rushing the passer again, and all of a sudden PFF couldn't stop raving about him. Dumervil went from their list of most overpaid passrushers to their list of most underpaid passrushers. Elvis Dumervil had the 5th highest passrushing grade in the NFL last year, behind Watt, Quinn, Jordan, and Wake. Are we to believe that Dumervil magically transformed from a mediocre passrusher to one of the most dominant passrushers in the league overnight, as PFF's grades would suggest? Or is it perhaps that PFF's grades failed to capture the impact of Dumervil's schematic assignments?

Denver's offensive line saw a similar effect this season. According to PFF, it was the best offensive line in the entire NFL, especially dominant at pass blocking, despite starting a 3rd string center, a 2nd string left tackle, and a below-average left guard. I watched all of Denver's games a couple of times this year, and all I can say is that if Denver's offensive line is the best in the league, I despair for the quality of offensive line play in the NFL. Denver had a good line, but it wasn't an elite unit. It just happened to be protecting the most difficult-to-sack QB in NFL history. Nobody in history has been as good at diagnosing pressure pre-snap and scheming it away as Peyton Manning. Denver's linemen rarely gave up pressure, not because they were unbeatable in protection, but because Manning always knew how to get the ball away before pressure could arrive.

This post probably sounds like a massive bash against PFF, but I honestly believe they do good and invaluable work, especially in terms of logging formations and snap counts. And I think their grades are thorough, consistent, and subject to good quality control. I just don't think they've achieved their goal of scheme-independence yet. I think their grades need to be taken with a huge grain of salt as a result. They're a big step in the right direction, but they're not the final solution.