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Week 17 included in projections (1 Viewer)

Personally I play in some games that use all 17 weeks. But for over 90% of Fantasy Footballers what is projected for a tough or easy week 17 matchup has no meaning to be included in any projections. I see folks wanting to know how many games are included in projections vs how many missed and want to break things down further and further. IMO first thing draft leaguers should remove from their projections is week 17...here's why ...do you really care if Portis struggles in week 17 vs Giants and falls behind LTs production because LT rips Arizona week 17 when your season is already finished? Is a potential tough matchup for LJ at Jacksonville week 17 really belonging in your draft league projections? With all these projection threads and the seriousness they seem to generate from quite a few here I believe week 17 should be removed. It really makes no difference what SA does vs Tampa week 17 to over 95% of those here.

 
Another reason- Say someone is really good at forecasting/projections and lowered Colts numbers like Peyton and Edge because he predicted the Colts would wrap up homefield and rest these guys at the end of the year. Sort of like Edge getting 1 carry in final game of 2004 season(completely meaniless he bowed out of rushing title race) Would projections for Colts in 2005 rank them better if you throw out their competitions meaniless week 17 added numbers? Of course it would.

 
When you project stats you should project them over an entire season since what you are using (should be using) as a baseline are prior year(s) stats.

:shrug:

 
Another reason- Say someone is really good at forecasting/projections and lowered Colts numbers like Peyton and Edge because he predicted the Colts would wrap up homefield and rest these guys at the end of the year. Sort of like Edge getting 1 carry in final game of 2004 season(completely meaniless he bowed out of rushing title race) Would projections for Colts in 2005 rank them better if you throw out their competitions meaniless week 17 added numbers? Of course it would.
Too many people here hopeless reliant on the Draft Dominator to agree with this WHIP.I agree with you, and I think there are several other fundamental changes needed to the way FBG, and the industry as a whole does projections, but Im not going to try to sail that ship here.

 
Personally I play in some games that use all 17 weeks. But for over 90% of Fantasy Footballers what is projected for a tough or easy week 17 matchup has no meaning to be included in any projections. I see folks wanting to know how many games are included in projections vs how many missed and want to break things down further and further. IMO first thing draft leaguers should remove from their projections is week 17...here's why ...do you really care if Portis struggles in week 17 vs Giants and falls behind LTs production because LT rips Arizona week 17 when your season is already finished? Is a potential tough matchup for LJ at Jacksonville week 17 really belonging in your draft league projections? With all these projection threads and the seriousness they seem to generate from quite a few here I believe week 17 should be removed. It really makes no difference what SA does vs Tampa week 17 to over 95% of those here.
Wouldn't it depend on how you did projections? If you look at recent offensive stats and adjust them up or down based on changes you see in the offense/player/situation/schedule then it doesn't make sense unless you are comparing them to 16 week stats from previous years. I don't think most people sit down and look through the schedule game by game and total up for the season. It just seems as if this is a bit silly to do. Projections are not a particularly accurate item so it doesn't make sense to nitpick too much about them. It's sort of like eyeballing a measurement and then writing it down to the sixteenth of an inch. They are simply a very rough estimate and should be treated as such.

 
Personally I play in some games that use all 17 weeks. But for over 90% of Fantasy Footballers what is projected for a tough or easy week 17 matchup has no meaning to be included in any projections. I see folks wanting to know how many games are included in projections vs how many missed and want to break things down further and further. IMO first thing draft leaguers should remove from their projections is week 17...here's why ...do you really care if Portis struggles in week 17 vs Giants and falls behind LTs production because LT rips Arizona week 17 when your season is already finished? Is a potential tough matchup for LJ at Jacksonville week 17 really belonging in your draft league projections? With all these projection threads and the seriousness they seem to generate from quite a few here I believe week 17 should be removed.  It really makes no difference what SA does vs Tampa week 17 to over 95% of those here.
Wouldn't it depend on how you did projections? If you look at recent offensive stats and adjust them up or down based on changes you see in the offense/player/situation/schedule then it doesn't make sense unless you are comparing them to 16 week stats from previous years. I don't think most people sit down and look through the schedule game by game and total up for the season. It just seems as if this is a bit silly to do. Projections are not a particularly accurate item so it doesn't make sense to nitpick too much about them. It's sort of like eyeballing a measurement and then writing it down to the sixteenth of an inch. They are simply a very rough estimate and should be treated as such.
If you are playing for alot of money, and you are really serious about the hobby, your projections better damn well be accurate, and they damn well better be nitpicked over.
 
It's not just estimating and writing down to 1/16 of an inch. It's a matter of not even measuring/estimating the correct distance and then writing down a flawed number to start with even if you eyeballed it correctly you were eyeballing the wrong thing. I don't measure an extra unmeaniful distance just cause it's there.

 
Projections are based on a season's worth of statistics - it's really that simple. They aren't done by doing game by game predictions and adding them up - it just wouldn't make sense to do that even if someone had the time.

So if you want a 15 game projection instead of 16, multiply by 15/16. If you want a 14 game projection, multiply by 14/16 etc.

There are is such a wide variety of league structures out there that it really doesn't make sense to do anything other than a full regular season for base projections.

 
Projections are based on a season's worth of statistics - it's really that simple. They aren't done by doing game by game predictions and adding them up - it just wouldn't make sense to do that even if someone had the time.

So if you want a 15 game projection instead of 16, multiply by 15/16. If you want a 14 game projection, multiply by 14/16 etc.

There are is such a wide variety of league structures out there that it really doesn't make sense to do anything other than a full regular season for base projections.
:goodposting: ignoring a week based on a perceived change in production that is out of the norm from history is ridiculous.

and it is a given regardless of how much you pick over your projections, there will be a deviation from the actual results...you just hope to minimize that.

 
Holy- but not every player has same chance of playing in week 17. And Saying someone who simply rested in a week 17 the year before is worth 1/15 less or over 6% less in your base to start with is just starting out 6% wrong on that base the next season.

 
Holy- but not every player has same chance of playing in week 17. And Saying someone who simply rested in a week 17 the year before is worth 1/15 less or over 6% less in your base to start with is just starting out 6% wrong on that base the next season.
Please tell me how you predict what players will be playing in week 17.:crackerjacks:

 
As I see it, we have no idea what teams will be "in the race" in Week 17 and which other ones will "put in the B team." Because of that, it's almost impossible to project which players will play or not in Week 17 and what percentage of their productivity might come off a full season projection.

For example, if an average RB gets the luxury of playing against the B team of a playoff team that doesn't care, that guy could be in for 200 yards and 3 TD. But if that same back went up against the same team fighting for a playoff spot, he might get 50/0. What are we supposed to take from that and what should we add or deduct to the RB's projection?

 
As I see it, we have no idea what teams will be "in the race" in Week 17 and which other ones will "put in the B team." Because of that, it's almost impossible to project which players will play or not in Week 17 and what percentage of their productivity might come off a full season projection.

For example, if an average RB gets the luxury of playing against the B team of a playoff team that doesn't care, that guy could be in for 200 yards and 3 TD. But if that same back went up against the same team fighting for a playoff spot, he might get 50/0. What are we supposed to take from that and what should we add or deduct to the RB's projection?
:hey:
 
Counter and and off on a tangent...but still important to rankings...COACHING /RESTING RISK-if your player has greater week 16 resting chance then it has opposite effect from week 17 because week 16 is very important......Going into last year there were a number of teams that were good enough to possibly predict they had an above average chance to rest players by week 16. The head coaches call in that situation is just as important and predictable as injuries. Someone like Dungy is more likely to rest players than Belichick (see how they ended previous season in 2004 and quotes on how they view momentum vs risk). And someone like Reid who got away with resting guys and made the Superbowl is more likely to do it again (possibly in your playoff week like he did in 2004) than a Shanahan who got burnt resting his guys with more than a week to go year before his Superbowl run and has been hesitant to repeat that since.

For someone like Peyton...He gets bonus points for being Healthy and not missing games. But is considering that if Colts have a cushion he gets rested acceptable to you in your rankings? If Dungy lets him play only one series of a game to end the season in week 17 it scews the numbers if you start with that as your base. But even more importantly if you don't realize he may only play half a game in Week 16 which is most leagues championship games it scews it the other way. I think for some Teams and players there is an additional risk of being benched while healthy...that is pretty close to assumptions that some players have a greater risk of missing games from injury. And no one has a problem with lowering ranking because of perceived injury risk. Someone like Westbrook has both an injury risk reduction to value...and Should have a "resting risk" reduction too. If given the choice Reid would rest him during your championship week...he's done it before. This sort of Dungy/Reid additional risk should be factored into rankings....not just go by Projections over 17 weeks..or even 16 weeks I suggested to start this thread. Their are certain Coaches that if they are having a great season are more likely to bench your fantasy player even if he's healthy at the worst time of the year for you.

 
Holy- but not every player has same chance of playing in week 17. And Saying someone who simply rested in a week 17 the year before is worth 1/15 less or over 6% less in your base to start with is just starting out 6% wrong on that base the next season.
Please tell me how you predict what players will be playing in week 17.:crackerjacks:
I dont think this is his main point.Hes saying, why do we base projections off of last years numbers, when last years numbers have been skewed by a player sitting in week 15-17 or by playing teams that don't compete in weeks 15-17.

Or at least thats how I read it.

 
Holy- but not every player has same chance of playing in week 17. And Saying someone who simply rested in a week 17 the year before is worth 1/15 less or over 6% less in your base to start with is just starting out 6% wrong on that base the next season.
Please tell me how you predict what players will be playing in week 17.:crackerjacks:
I dont think this is his main point.Hes saying, why do we base projections off of last years numbers, when last years numbers have been skewed by a player sitting in week 15-17 or by playing teams that don't compete in weeks 15-17.

Or at least thats how I read it.
It's the same thing. If you don't use last year's totals for everyone, how do you determine who you won't? What is considered an "aberration"? Maybe Player X gets very limited production every year in week 17 so no adjustment is necessary.By the time you get to the actual answer and you factor in variance, you are better off projecting off of previous year(s) stats and making adjustments for a variety of factors, the least of which is the likelihood of who they play on week 17.

 
Bagger- The 6% off is from using the previous years numbers to start with next years base on a player who rested week 17 the year before.
I completely understand this. Where did it seem like I didn't?
 
Bagger in this quote "Please tell me how you predict what players will be playing in week 17."

Regarding the baseline you start with- you know whether or not someone rested in week 17 the previous season. Pretty simple to add 6% to the baseline if you wanted...or just eliminate everyones week 17 stats from their baselines. Eliminating everyones week 17 stats is reasonable because- as was pointed out by Yudkin ...week 17 has all kinds of strange things going on depending on competitive issues of whos got reasons to do well and who doesn't. Same reason fantasy users don't like including week 17 in their season/playoffs is same reason stats from that week aren't accurate to be included when predicting/forcasting/creating a base for the next years rankings. Who they play in week 17 is part of the schedule..and if not removed when comparing Strengths of Schedules it tips it off balance a bit.

 
Holy- but not every player has same chance of playing in week 17. And Saying someone who simply rested in a week 17 the year before is worth 1/15 less or over 6% less in your base to start with is just starting out 6% wrong on that base the next season.
I'm not even sure I completely understand what the problem is.If you don't use week 17 in your league how does it even matter? Who cares if Manning plays or not in week 17 if no one's stats from week 17 are used? all you really care about is relative production. So if ALL of the numbers are (consistently) "inflated" a smidge, it doesn't effect any rankings or anything that matter at all.

As for baselines, a good projection will take those sorts of things into consideration. Last year's stats are obviously not the only thing that's thrown into the mix. If Manning didn't play week 17 last year, and you don't think he'll play in week 17 this year either, it's still a decent starting point for a projection. If you DO think he will absolutely play in week 17, you bump up the projection a little bit. If you think he MIGHT (or might not) play in week 17, you bump it up a little bit less. For my own personal projections, the chance of correctly predicting a week 17 no-show is small enough where I don't think I would use it very often and the vast majority of time would base a projection on a full 16 games anyway.

That approach WILL lead to slightly "off" projections if you don't use week 17 because Mannings projections in terms of points/game might be a little artificially low through the first 15 games (because all of his total production will come in those 15 games vs the typical 16). But frankly that's well within our margin of error on these things and I like the alternative (14 or 15 game projections) a lot less than dealing with this small potential error for a handful of players that you could with ANY degree of confidence assume that they won't be playing in week 17.

Honestly, it would make the most sense to base predictions completely on average points/game, but I don't see that happening for a lot of reasons. The big one is that a casual review won't lead you to compare those numbers to where a guy finished in years past.

We just have to keep these things in mind:

-We always have to adjust projections based on our particular league setup.

-Our goal is figure out RELATIVE per-game production for players, so the net numbers really don't matter all.

But heck, maybe the "projectors" already use a full 16 week production base regardless of whether or not they think the player will actually play in week 17 games.

We should ask them. Any FBG projectors want to chime in on the approach you use?

If you already project based on the assumption that all player play a full 16 games, this whole discussion is moot. The 15/16 rule would apply for all projections without any additional error factors (though again, I'm not sure that the totals really matter that much anyway).

If you factor in the potential for a lack of a week 17 games in your "total" numbers, some folks may need to make some very minor adjustments to their PERSONAL rankings.

 
Bagger in this quote "Please tell me how you predict what players will be playing in week 17."

Regarding the baseline you start with- you know whether or not someone rested in week 17 the previous season. Pretty simple to add 6% to the baseline if you wanted...or just eliminate everyones week 17 stats from their baselines. Eliminating everyones week 17 stats is reasonable because- as was pointed out by Yudkin ...week 17 has all kinds of strange things going on depending on competitive issues of whos got reasons to do well and who doesn't. Same reason fantasy users don't like including week 17 in their season/playoffs is same reason stats from that week aren't accurate to be included when predicting/forcasting/creating a base for the next years rankings. Who they play in week 17 is part of the schedule..and if not removed when comparing Strengths of Schedules it tips it off balance a bit.
Why is it reasonable? What if that player is playing a divisional opponent week 17 in year n but in week 11 in year n+1. To exclude those stats would be a HUGE mistake.
 
Holy- but not every player has same chance of playing in week 17. And Saying someone who simply rested in a week 17 the year before is worth 1/15 less or over 6% less in your base to start with is just starting out 6% wrong on that base the next season.
Please tell me how you predict what players will be playing in week 17.:crackerjacks:
I dont think this is his main point.Hes saying, why do we base projections off of last years numbers, when last years numbers have been skewed by a player sitting in week 15-17 or by playing teams that don't compete in weeks 15-17.

Or at least thats how I read it.
Yes , I'm saying if a player rested week 17 it should not count against him in his stat base for next years first 16 weeks which is all that matters in a draft league. Week 17s don't matter. Week 16s "resting" do but that argument will only confuse things more.
 
Holy- but not every player has same chance of playing in week 17. And Saying someone who simply rested in a week 17 the year before is worth 1/15 less or over 6% less in your base to start with is just starting out 6% wrong on that base the next season.
Please tell me how you predict what players will be playing in week 17.:crackerjacks:
I dont think this is his main point.Hes saying, why do we base projections off of last years numbers, when last years numbers have been skewed by a player sitting in week 15-17 or by playing teams that don't compete in weeks 15-17.

Or at least thats how I read it.
Yes , I'm saying if a player rested week 17 it should not count against him in his stat base for next years first 16 weeks which is all that matters in a draft league. Week 17s don't matter. Week 16s "resting" do but that argument will only confuse things more.
Again, it's very possible some or all of the projectors are already accounting for that - assuming a full 16 games played for a future year even if they don't think it will actually happen. If that's the case, there should be no concern for a flawed baseline.Besides, the alternative (listing 15 game totals) makes it much harder to make a "reasonably apples to apples" comparison of projections to past performance, which is really a much bigger deal for most people.

Edit:

Which players would YOU project to be sitting in week 17 by the way? I know a fair amount of players do sit week 17 every year, but predicting which is a WHOLE different matter. I have little doubt Indy will continue to be good, but will they be so good again this year that week 17 will be meaningless for them? Maybe, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it either. And the Colts are probably the safest bet in that regard I can think of.

 
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Week 17 abberations removed from previous year and removing expectations/projections vs this years week 17 opponent seem like improvements to a league that plays 16 weeks.

On other side of the coin I think Week 16 "resting" decision and coaching philosophy is also a valuable addition when going from projections to actual rankings.

If it seems like nit-picking it may be to you. To me it's getting things a little more accurate when trying to separate rankings between some closely ranked players. A 6% difference to the base of a player who played only 15 weeks is significant to me. A tough matchup in week17 means nothing regarding this years strength of schedule. The chance Reid may Bench Westy in week 16 if he can certainly should factor into rankings of Westbrook even if you want to ignore tweaking his projections.

 
Gotta go but as to question of who I project it would be just like projecting anything else. You do your best...just like most do projecting who carries injury risk. The injury risk player wont get injured if he doesn't take that one hit. The "resting" risk player wont get rested unless his team gets that one locked in playoff spot. But knowing Reid and Dungy philosophy vs Belichick/Shanahan philosophy means a Philly or Indy player is at an increased risk if things get locked up. Laters

 
I play and project for 16 weeks. Mainly the Omega league. I take stats from last year after week 16. I can project by team,player and position. I get the stats from espn, NFL, FBG, etc. I use espn's.

If I'm projection for the Omega league, and their rules I go here:

 
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On other side of the coin I think Week 16 "resting" decision and coaching philosophy is also a valuable addition when going from projections to actual rankings.

If it seems like nit-picking it may be to you. To me it's getting things a little more accurate when trying to separate rankings between some closely ranked players. A 6% difference to the base of a player who played only 15 weeks is significant to me. A tough matchup in week17 means nothing regarding this years strength of schedule. The chance Reid may Bench Westy in week 16 if he can certainly should factor into rankings of Westbrook even if you want to ignore tweaking his projections.
I agree that you need to factor some things in when you go from projections to rankings.But I can tell you for sure that your 6% would be WAY high if I were doing projections, because if I saw a player only 15 games last year I would definitely NOT project another 15 game season this year by default, and I doubt most good projectors would either (and I put FBG projectors in that group).

 
Gotta go but as to question of who I project it would be just like projecting anything else. You do your best...just like most do projecting who carries injury risk. The injury risk player wont get injured if he doesn't take that one hit. The "resting" risk player wont get rested unless his team gets that one locked in playoff spot. But knowing Reid and Dungy philosophy vs Belichick/Shanahan philosophy means a Philly or Indy player is at an increased risk if things get locked up. Laters
I contend it is NOT like "projecting anything else" - I think it would be MUCH harder. A little easier than predicting injuries, but not by a lot. Which is probably why you didn't even want to hazard a guess on who might sit in week 17.You mention Reid. Do you think it is very likely that the Eagles are going to be good enough this year to have week 17 be meaningless? It's POSSIBLE, but I wouldn't even put the probability at 50% (maybe 5%?).

 
These are my 2006 Rushing and Passing SOS. 1) being the easiest to 32) the toughest.

Rushing

1) n eng

2) miami

2)chic

4)seattle

4)g bay

6)det

7)buf

7)ind

7)jac

7)min

7)jet

Bottom

24)Bal

24)t bay

26)atl

26)giant

28)k c

29)cin

29)cle

29)oak

32)rams

Passing

1)oak

2)s die

3)k c

4)ari

4)den

4)sea

7)ram

8)ind

8)jac

10)chic

10)sfran

Bottom

22)dal

22)phi

24)cle

25)giant

26)cin

26)min

28)pit

29)n o

30)car

31)t bay

32)atl

 

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