What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Westbrook was overpaid by 3 million (1 Viewer)

jeter23

Footballguy
The Eagles accidentally paid Brian Westbrook an extra $3 million last season because of an accounting error.

Bizarre story; Westbrook reportedly intends to pay the money back. But since he has yet to do so, the Eagles were required by the league and the NFLPA to file a grievance. This story might have more to it.

Source: ComcastSportsNet.com

 
Does this mean another 3 million in cap space?
Seems like it could be opposite
The league, under the collective-bargaining agreement, could hit the Eagles with a cap charge for the mistake. A team source said yesterday that, as of now, the league had not penalized the Eagles for the error. The fear within the Eagles' organization was that another team might challenge the NFL if the league does not penalize the team
 
This could actually be bad for the Eagles. What's to stop another team with cap problems from saying, whoops, we accidentally gave this guy $3 million too much. But it was just an accounting error, please don't penalize us for it.

 
This could actually be bad for the Eagles. What's to stop another team with cap problems from saying, whoops, we accidentally gave this guy $3 million too much. But it was just an accounting error, please don't penalize us for it.
;) I would be amazed if a team would break those sort of rules that are bigger then NFL. I am sure the IRS would have a major problem with forged books.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
This could actually be bad for the Eagles. What's to stop another team with cap problems from saying, whoops, we accidentally gave this guy $3 million too much. But it was just an accounting error, please don't penalize us for it.
yeah that's not just a smidge over the cap either. I figure they gotta hit them with some penalty if it even has some sign that it might have been on purpose.Does Westy get a big check each 6 months or is he a week to week guy? If he was due like 4 mil in April and 3 more in november and the accountant paid him all in April....not a big deal IMO fine wise.We'll never know about their finances but I'd like to know more here
 
Does this mean another 3 million in cap space?
I doubt that...I'm guessing the league will refigure the Eagle cap situation (which I'm not sure about, off hand) using the corrected figure, then the "adjusted" if/when Westy pays it back to determine if there is in fact a violation at all...if any team could weather a hit like this, it was the Eagles...for years, they have executed to perfection the art of getting credits for "Incentives Likely to be Earned", but not paid out

these are incentives that have been negotiated into the contracts of rookies and others that have to be counted toward the cap, but when unpaid for whatever reason, that unpaid amount gets "carried forward" and added toward the following years cap, giving them an "adjusted cap figure" higher than the other teams not carrying any of these credits

prior to the Ownes deal and renegotiated CBA of '06, the Eagles had ~$5M of this "adjusted carry forward credits" due to 'incentives likely to be earned', but were not paid out---this total was slowly built over ~10 yrs, as 1 or 2 contracts we redone just about yearly to work a small amount of money that they were already under the cap into a contract of a player where it was highly unlikely (to them) that the bonus would be paid, but in fact it was a bonus that needed to be accounted for (at least in part) under the cap

when the "incentive likely to be earned" was not, in fact, "earned", the Eagles would receive a credit for that amount and it was added to the following years "adjusted cap figure" for them...it is this "adjusted cap figure" that every team must work under, as they all have credits of some degree or another available to them

from what I understand, no team was as diligent about utilizing this totally legal maneuver as Philly, giving them in theory an amount higher than other teams available for use...it should be noted that if and when these monies were used up (like maybe in this Westbrook case), they would then have to work w/in the structure of the CBA to again acquire such credits

 
Last edited by a moderator:
This is TOTAL BS. It was no error. It was something that was done under the rug, and the Eagles got busted, so now they're claiming it was an error. The NFL (unless it treats deceptive owners different than arrested players) should come down on hard on the Eagles.

 
This is TOTAL BS. It was no error. It was something that was done under the rug, and the Eagles got busted, so now they're claiming it was an error. The NFL (unless it treats deceptive owners different than arrested players) should come down on hard on the Eagles.
I have no idea what actually happened, but my gut says this is more likely that accidentally giving someone 3 million extra dollars.
 
Does this mean another 3 million in cap space?
I doubt that...I'm guessing the league will refigure the Eagle cap situation (which I'm not sure about, off hand) using the corrected figure, then the "adjusted" if/when Westy pays it back to determine if there is in fact a violation at all...if any team could weather a hit like this, it was the Eagles...for years, they have executed to perfection the art of getting credits for "Incentives Likely to be Earned", but not paid out

these are incentives that have been negotiated into the contracts of rookies and others that have to be counted toward the cap, but when unpaid for whatever reason, that unpaid amount gets "carried forward" and added toward the following years cap, giving them an "adjusted cap figure" higher than the other teams not carrying any of these credits

prior to the Ownes deal and renegotiated CBA of '06, the Eagles had ~$5M of this "adjusted carry forward credits" due to 'incentives likely to be earned', but were not paid out---this total was slowly built over ~10 yrs, as 1 or 2 contracts we redone just about yearly to work a small amount of money that they were already under the cap into a contract of a player where it was highly unlikely (to them) that the bonus would be paid, but in fact it was a bonus that needed to be accounted for (at least in part) under the cap

when the "incentive likely to be earned" was not, in fact, "earned", the Eagles would receive a credit for that amount and it was added to the following years "adjusted cap figure" for them...it is this "adjusted cap figure" that every team must work under, as they all have credits of some degree or another available to them

from what I understand, no team was as diligent about utilizing this totally legal maneuver as Philly, giving them in theory an amount higher than other teams available for use...it should be noted that if and when these monies were used up (like maybe in this Westbrook case), they would then have to work w/in the structure of the CBA to again acquire such credits
I believe it's year to year and does not build like you're saying. If in 05 they have a bunch of LTBE then they get some credit for 06 but I don't believe it's there in 07.The NFL and NFLPA both monitor what's categorized as LTBE so I don't believe the Eagles could easily pull the wool over anyone's eyes here unless a starter from one year was not going to start the next year and that was not a well known fact. Neither the NFL nor NFLPA wants any games with contracts and I'm confident Vincent would bark if there was.

 
This is TOTAL BS. It was no error. It was something that was done under the rug, and the Eagles got busted, so now they're claiming it was an error. The NFL (unless it treats deceptive owners different than arrested players) should come down on hard on the Eagles.
I have no idea what actually happened, but my gut says this is more likely that accidentally giving someone 3 million extra dollars.
Ya... that happens all the time. Please!
 
This is TOTAL BS. It was no error. It was something that was done under the rug, and the Eagles got busted, so now they're claiming it was an error. The NFL (unless it treats deceptive owners different than arrested players) should come down on hard on the Eagles.
I have no idea what actually happened, but my gut says this is more likely that accidentally giving someone 3 million extra dollars.
Ya... that happens all the time. Please!
how much experience do you have with 5-6 million dollar paychecks to know whether it's common or rare?
 
How did Westbrook not know it was happening??????

No matter how dumb somebody is, you'd recognize that your are getting paid WAY too much. Westbrook cannot possibly be that dumb.

 
How did Westbrook not know it was happening??????No matter how dumb somebody is, you'd recognize that your are getting paid WAY too much. Westbrook cannot possibly be that dumb.
he probably pays some accountant or financial advisor to manage his money
 
Does this mean another 3 million in cap space?
I doubt that...I'm guessing the league will refigure the Eagle cap situation (which I'm not sure about, off hand) using the corrected figure, then the "adjusted" if/when Westy pays it back to determine if there is in fact a violation at all...if any team could weather a hit like this, it was the Eagles...for years, they have executed to perfection the art of getting credits for "Incentives Likely to be Earned", but not paid out

these are incentives that have been negotiated into the contracts of rookies and others that have to be counted toward the cap, but when unpaid for whatever reason, that unpaid amount gets "carried forward" and added toward the following years cap, giving them an "adjusted cap figure" higher than the other teams not carrying any of these credits

prior to the Ownes deal and renegotiated CBA of '06, the Eagles had ~$5M of this "adjusted carry forward credits" due to 'incentives likely to be earned', but were not paid out---this total was slowly built over ~10 yrs, as 1 or 2 contracts we redone just about yearly to work a small amount of money that they were already under the cap into a contract of a player where it was highly unlikely (to them) that the bonus would be paid, but in fact it was a bonus that needed to be accounted for (at least in part) under the cap

when the "incentive likely to be earned" was not, in fact, "earned", the Eagles would receive a credit for that amount and it was added to the following years "adjusted cap figure" for them...it is this "adjusted cap figure" that every team must work under, as they all have credits of some degree or another available to them

from what I understand, no team was as diligent about utilizing this totally legal maneuver as Philly, giving them in theory an amount higher than other teams available for use...it should be noted that if and when these monies were used up (like maybe in this Westbrook case), they would then have to work w/in the structure of the CBA to again acquire such credits
I believe it's year to year and does not build like you're saying. If in 05 they have a bunch of LTBE then they get some credit for 06 but I don't believe it's there in 07.The NFL and NFLPA both monitor what's categorized as LTBE so I don't believe the Eagles could easily pull the wool over anyone's eyes here unless a starter from one year was not going to start the next year and that was not a well known fact. Neither the NFL nor NFLPA wants any games with contracts and I'm confident Vincent would bark if there was.
I didn't mean to imply that a bunch of '02 money has accrued....from what I read a couple years ago, once contracts and the rosters were finalized, a contract or 2 or 3 would be "reworked", moving some money "under the cap" into LTBE, there using up more cap space---as the amt LTBE increased, the size and/or number of the LTBE "adjustments" increased to the tune of close to $5M just a couple yrs ago, when the cap was ~$89M, Philly had an adjusted cap number ~$94so you are correct in that monies from several yrs back can't be carried forward seperately, they had to be reworked into other seperate contracts the following yr, and so on

while "in the grey area", totally legal

 
I didn't mean to imply that a bunch of '02 money has accrued....from what I read a couple years ago, once contracts and the rosters were finalized, a contract or 2 or 3 would be "reworked", moving some money "under the cap" into LTBE, there using up more cap space---as the amt LTBE increased, the size and/or number of the LTBE "adjustments" increased to the tune of close to $5M just a couple yrs ago, when the cap was ~$89M, Philly had an adjusted cap number ~$94so you are correct in that monies from several yrs back can't be carried forward seperately, they had to be reworked into other seperate contracts the following yr, and so onwhile "in the grey area", totally legal
LTBE are applied to the cap before they are earned. As I mentioned before the only imaginative way I can think of to pull this off is for Reid to know he won't be starting a player(significant playing time) while much of the public does not know. Injury of course would force a player into a spot where he couldn't earn certain incentives as he's not playing but I figure that's obvious.I believe much of the Eagles "free money" from LTBE not earned has been due to injuriesFWIW There is also a pool of money each team has where if players do esp well, better than expected, they get a good chunk of change. It's for the lower paid players and happens once a year. IIRC a Raven was the highest in this case. He made like 265k in salary but got a 350k bonus this way recently. That's gotta be pretty sweet for an undrafted free agent. I'll look for that if ya want but off a bit on a tangent here
 
This is TOTAL BS. It was no error. It was something that was done under the rug, and the Eagles got busted, so now they're claiming it was an error. The NFL (unless it treats deceptive owners different than arrested players) should come down on hard on the Eagles.
I have no idea what actually happened, but my gut says this is more likely that accidentally giving someone 3 million extra dollars.
This seems to apply to this thread rather well
:angry: Not sure why the Eagles would give Westbrook another 3 million on purpose and not expect to get caught... It seems like a large sum of money for an under the table deal... Also, the Eagles are the ones who filed the grievance so that seems like an unlikely move if they were trying to pull one over on the NFL.

 
This is TOTAL BS. It was no error. It was something that was done under the rug, and the Eagles got busted, so now they're claiming it was an error. The NFL (unless it treats deceptive owners different than arrested players) should come down on hard on the Eagles.
I have no idea what actually happened, but my gut says this is more likely that accidentally giving someone 3 million extra dollars.
This seems to apply to this thread rather well
:bag: Not sure why the Eagles would give Westbrook another 3 million on purpose and not expect to get caught... It seems like a large sum of money for an under the table deal... Also, the Eagles are the ones who filed the grievance so that seems like an unlikely move if they were trying to pull one over on the NFL.
Fair enough, but Im just wary of the "accident" excuse when it comes to amounts of money with 6 zeroes.
 
Before the witch hunt goes too far, from what I understand the EAGLES caught this error and reported it (as the NFL rules say). No one 'caught' them.

Sorry Grid.....

 
Before the witch hunt goes too far, from what I understand the EAGLES caught this error and reported it (as the NFL rules say). No one 'caught' them.Sorry Grid.....
The probably knew they would be found and and tried to come clean first to make it less shady.I cannot believe Westbrooks accountants/financial advisors could possibly not catch a 3 million dollar mistake. They are paid to manage his money and know what should be coming in, there is no way they didn't notice.So assuming Westbrooks side knew about it they wouldn't just hope it never got caught, they would let the Eagle's know. The problem is that both sides were probably aware of it and trying to get away with cap manipulation.There is some major violations going on here and a precident needs to be set. 3rd round pick at a minimum should be forfeited, i'd even be a bit harsher if i was the NFL and dock them a 3rd this year and a 3rd next.
 
How about an actual account of what happened?

Philly.com

Oops! Westbrook was paid bonus twice

The Eagles' $3 million accounting fumble.

By Bob Brookover

Inquirer Staff Writer

That's not an opinion. It's a fact.The Eagles admitted yesterday that an accounting gaffe resulted in the team's paying its star running back a $3 million roster bonus twice. The Eagles have been forced to file a grievance with the NFL against Westbrook because the money has not yet been repaid.

According to a team source, Westbrook and his agent, Fletcher Smith, have acknowledged the mistake and intend to return the money. Smith did not return a phone call yesterday. The matter becomes complicated from an accounting standpoint because of the taxes already paid on the money.

The league, under the collective-bargaining agreement, could hit the Eagles with a cap charge for the mistake. A team source said yesterday that, as of now, the league had not penalized the Eagles for the error. The fear within the Eagles' organization was that another team might challenge the NFL if the league does not penalize the team.

Greg Aiello, vice president of media relations for the league, did not return a call yesterday.

Westbrook, of course, was the focal point of the Eagles' offense last season and probably was worth an extra $3 million after the way he performed when starting quarterback Donovan McNabb suffered a torn knee ligament and was lost for the season.

He finished the year with a career high of 1,217 rushing yards and was sixth in the NFL with 1,916 yards from scrimmage. His 6.0 yards per touch was second best in the league for running backs.

Westbrook, 27, signed a five-year contract extension worth $24.9 million during the 2005 season after contentious moments that included a training-camp holdout before the season. The deal included $9.5 million in bonus money. Westbrook will have a base salary of $2 million in 2007.
Now, my opinion.They made a big error. Yes, the NFL can slap them with a fine or a cap penalty - but I don't think that the cap penalty would happen. After all, if they did, the Eagles would renegotiate Westy's deal and have his cap number adjusted (dropping his '07 salary and adjusting the back end, calling the $3Mil a signing bonus).

As for why the Eagles can make the claim that they did nothing wrong other than cut an extra check (which is wrong) they didn't violate the paperwork filed with the league regarding Westbrook's deal. They just need to fix the problem.

It could go either way, but I think this will likely be much ado about nothing.

 
I hear they also accidentally paid David Akers time and a half for one game, and IT WASN'T EVEN A HOLIDAY!

 
Last edited by a moderator:
This is TOTAL BS. It was no error. It was something that was done under the rug, and the Eagles got busted, so now they're claiming it was an error. The NFL (unless it treats deceptive owners different than arrested players) should come down on hard on the Eagles.
I have no idea what actually happened, but my gut says this is more likely that accidentally giving someone 3 million extra dollars.
Ya... that happens all the time. Please!
My wife worked for a company that accidentally did not pay the top exec for over a year, to the tune of a couple million. Must be nice to not miss the money!
 
Philly's adjusted Salary Cap for 2007 was just under $112M.

Link
IIRC, '07 cap figure is $109M, so Philly has an extra $3M, after the "adjustment"---down alittle from the $5M I remembered it to be, but still signifigantDo we know where Philly stood in '06, w/adjusted cap number and any room under the cap they were?

This would tell us if the NFL would drop the hammer, 'cuz if they had the room under the cap, this is all a moot point

***spelling police, twice in 1 thread! :loco: ***

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Some of the comments in this thread border on the ridiculous. THe NFL is not likely to give any serious penalties, indeed they aren't likely to penalize the team at all, if Westbrook pays the money back.

Whether you love or hate the Eagles, the franchise has been nothing but first class under Lurie.

 
How about an actual account of what happened?

Philly.com
That article is a bit short on details. It doesn't say when the extra $3 million was paid, when it was reported, who brought it to the Eagles' attention, among other things. What I get from it is that the extra money was paid last season, and only reported by the Eagles now. I wonder if another team caught it, brought it to the Eagles' attention?
Brian Westbrook was overpaid last season.

That's not an opinion. It's a fact.

The Eagles admitted yesterday that an accounting gaffe resulted in the team's paying its star running back a $3 million roster bonus twice. The Eagles have been forced to file a grievance with the NFL against Westbrook because the money has not yet been repaid.
The league, under the collective-bargaining agreement, could hit the Eagles with a cap charge for the mistake. A team source said yesterday that, as of now, the league had not penalized the Eagles for the error. The fear within the Eagles' organization was that another team might challenge the NFL if the league does not penalize the team.
 
Some of the comments in this thread border on the ridiculous. THe NFL is not likely to give any serious penalties, indeed they aren't likely to penalize the team at all, if Westbrook pays the money back.Whether you love or hate the Eagles, the franchise has been nothing but first class under Lurie.
:lmao:
 
Some of the comments in this thread border on the ridiculous. THe NFL is not likely to give any serious penalties, indeed they aren't likely to penalize the team at all, if Westbrook pays the money back.Whether you love or hate the Eagles, the franchise has been nothing but first class under Lurie.
This is the same NFL that wouldn't let Schottenheimer give a bottle of wine to one of his players for making a big play, won't let players write words on their sneakers in honor of the recently deceased, and required the holder of a restricted free agent's rights to match incentives including making their entire contract guaranteed if they play more than three games in a certain state. If they give the Eagles leeway on this, it would be the exception, not the rule. Especially since it opens the door for teams to circumvent the salary cap in the future. As for the franchise being nothing but first class, you might be forgetting how they undercut the Ravens' trade for Owens, lowballed him, refused to sign him to an extension, and then cried foul when he blew up.
 
As for the franchise being nothing but first class, you might be forgetting how they undercut the Ravens' trade for Owens, lowballed him, refused to sign him to an extension, and then cried foul when he blew up.
Owens was told when he signed by the Eagles that it was a two year deal.The players' association told TO not to sign it.TO signed.End of story.And the Eagles still overpaid.
 
Some of the comments in this thread border on the ridiculous. THe NFL is not likely to give any serious penalties, indeed they aren't likely to penalize the team at all, if Westbrook pays the money back.

Whether you love or hate the Eagles, the franchise has been nothing but first class under Lurie.
This is the same NFL that wouldn't let Schottenheimer give a bottle of wine to one of his players for making a big play, won't let players write words on their sneakers in honor of the recently deceased, and required the holder of a restricted free agent's rights to match incentives including making their entire contract guaranteed if they play more than three games in a certain state. If they give the Eagles leeway on this, it would be the exception, not the rule. Especially since it opens the door for teams to circumvent the salary cap in the future. As for the franchise being nothing but first class, you might be forgetting how they undercut the Ravens' trade for Owens, lowballed him, refused to sign him to an extension, and then cried foul when he blew up.
Assume for a second that it WAS an honest mistake...then assume that Westbrook pays the money back in a reasonably quick amount of time. How then will they have exceeded the salary cap? I'm sure the NFL will investigate, but if it appears honest, and is fixed, then there would be no reason for the NFL to do anything further, since it would then be a simple accounting error.BTW...Has anybody checked to see if 3 million would have put the Eagles over the cap to begin with? It seems Philly often has 2-4 million left when the season starts.

 
won't let players write words on their sneakers in honor of the recently deceased
Ya gotta admit it's a bit weird in the first place that they'd even want to though.how do your sneakers smell after a football game or something atheltic that ya do?
 
As for the franchise being nothing but first class, you might be forgetting how they undercut the Ravens' trade for Owens, lowballed him, refused to sign him to an extension, and then cried foul when he blew up.
Owens was told when he signed by the Eagles that it was a two year deal.The players' association told TO not to sign it.TO signed.End of story.And the Eagles still overpaid.
If that were the "end of story", you'd have addressed the points I made in my post.
 
As for the franchise being nothing but first class, you might be forgetting how they undercut the Ravens' trade for Owens, lowballed him, refused to sign him to an extension, and then cried foul when he blew up.
Owens was told when he signed by the Eagles that it was a two year deal.The players' association told TO not to sign it.TO signed.End of story.And the Eagles still overpaid.
If that were the "end of story", you'd have addressed the points I made in my post.
:hot: Uh, he did. Except the Ravens part which basically has no bearing on this what-so-ever and really doesn't merit a response....
 
See bolded portions. Most roster bonuses, I assume, would get paid right before the start of the regular season. Which would mean that Westbrook received his "extra" $3M payment back in August or September 2006. That's a long time for a $3M "mistake" to go undetected.

Westbrook has also already paid taxes on the money - presumably meaning he filed a tax return (e.g., it wasn't just that the Eagles withheld the money for him). Again, that at least dates the payment sometime back in 2006.

Could be an honest mistake by the Eagles. But it sure doesn't look good. Every NFL team should have a payroll system in place to both handle complex contracts AND to audit/reconcile payments vs. cap reportings. If nothing else, this calls into question the franchise's internal controls system.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2837321

Updated: April 14, 2007, 5:41 PM ET

Overpaying Westbrook could hit Eagles in capBy Len Pasquarelli

ESPN.com

How good was Philadelphia Eagles running back Brian Westbrook in 2006?

So good, apparently, that the Eagles paid him twice. Or at least they anted up twice on the $3 million roster bonus that Westbrook was due.

Team officials have confirmed that, because of an accounting error, Westbrook was twice awarded a $3 million roster bonus for 2006 that was part of the five-year, $25 million contract extension the five-year veteran signed in November 2005. Westbrook reportedly has acknowledged the overage and agreed to repay the money.

But because the Eagles have yet to be reimbursed, which could negatively impact on the Eagles' salary cap status, the team has been forced to file a grievance with the league office seeking repayment. A team official stressed there was no acrimony between the Eagles and their star tailback, that repayment is anticipated, and that the grievance was a technicality aimed at avoiding any cap implications.

Westbrook's agent could not be reached for comment on the extra bonus, which was first reported on Friday evening by ComcastSportsNet.com. It is not clear when, or how, the overage was discovered by the Eagles and Westbrook. One potential complication to the reimbursement is that Westbrook has already paid taxes on the extra $3 million.

Such an accounting gaffe is unusual for any NFL team, but especially for the Eagles, who are among the league's premier franchises in terms of salary cap management.

As of Saturday, the league had not charged the accounting error to the Eagles' salary cap. The team remains about $10 million under the NFL spending limit of $109 million for '07.

Westbrook, 27, registered a career season in 2006. On the ground, he posted career highs in carries (240) and yards (1,217), and tied his career best with seven touchdowns. He also had a career-high 77 receptions for 699 yards and four touchdowns.

A third-round pick in the 2002 draft, Westbrook has emerged as one of the NFL's most versatile performers and the centerpiece of the Philadelphia offense. In 70 games, including 49 starts, the former Villanova star has rushed for 3,452 yards and 20 touchdowns on 736 carries, and has 257 catches for 2,436 yards and 18 touchdowns.

 
As for the franchise being nothing but first class, you might be forgetting how they undercut the Ravens' trade for Owens, lowballed him, refused to sign him to an extension, and then cried foul when he blew up.
Owens was told when he signed by the Eagles that it was a two year deal.The players' association told TO not to sign it.TO signed.End of story.And the Eagles still overpaid.
If that were the "end of story", you'd have addressed the points I made in my post.
Fred, this is a tired act. You aren't going to ever change anyone's mind about Owens. Why don't you just let it go?
 
bostonfred said:
As for the franchise being nothing but first class, you might be forgetting how they undercut the Ravens' trade for Owens, lowballed him, refused to sign him to an extension, and then cried foul when he blew up.
The Eagles "lowballed" TO by signing a contract that he agreed to, declined to extend him because he's a turd, and then cried foul when he committed a flagrant foul. And you want to spin that as if the Eagles were in the wrong?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top