Hoss_Cartwright
Footballguy
The negative thread about Sanchez. I will create threads about a few of the players in the 2009 draft. Why should I not draft this guy in my dynasty rookie draft?
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What do you not like about Mark Sanchez? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Hoss_Cartwright
- Start date
Donnybrook
Footballguy
I am probably not qualified to criticize him since I haven’t watched him play but I want to know how come he could not beat out John David Booty. Is Pete Carol too loyal to his seniors?
I will always regard Sanchez with suspicion until some one can explain what happened at USC.
I will always regard Sanchez with suspicion until some one can explain what happened at USC.
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Buffaloes
Footballguy
fissure man
Footballguy
I think you mean $20,000.
Buffaloes
Footballguy
I copied and pasted from the link. I'm not familiar with the story and ESPN has been wrong in the past. Just going off what the story said.
lyon812
Footballguy
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
The fact that he has had a much better college experience than I did.
Seriously, his skill set is growing on me. He appears to read defenses well, is accurate, and has a strong enough arm to make all of the throws. The major negatives are:
1) One year of success.
2) Played at USC. The talent pool is always rich at USC, and the defenses are typically poor in the Pac-10.
From what I have seen I am much more impressed with him versus Stafford.
Seriously, his skill set is growing on me. He appears to read defenses well, is accurate, and has a strong enough arm to make all of the throws. The major negatives are:
1) One year of success.
2) Played at USC. The talent pool is always rich at USC, and the defenses are typically poor in the Pac-10.
From what I have seen I am much more impressed with him versus Stafford.
Apollo
Smeagol alias
I agree. I think Sanchez is a franchise QB. His pocket presence is very underrated I think. He reminds me of Aaron Rodgers.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
The biggest thing for me is playing time. Underclass QB prospects, particularly with as few games started as Sanchez have a horrendous hit rate.
Multiple Scores
Footballguy
In California (not sure about the rest of the USA) you can pay 10% of the bail amount and you lose that money. I lived in Laguna Niguel for a few years and Mission Viejo is a short hop down the street which is where Mark grew up, it's not hard to believe that his parents could afford $20,000, I would find it surprising if many in Mission Viejo could not afford it. It is an upper-middle class area.I copied and pasted from the link. I'm not familiar with the story and ESPN has been wrong in the past. Just going off what the story said.
Buffaloes
Footballguy
That makes more sense.
Mr. Brownstone
Footballguy
I don't like the fact that there is a good chance that he might not be available when the Jaguars are on the clock.
FUBAR
Footballguy
I'm not a fan of either Carr or Harrington Sanchez or Stafford.
A
awesomeness
Guest
Why couldn't Willie Parker beat out Ronnie McGill? Why couldn't Tom Brady beat out Brian Griese or Drew Henson? It doesn't really matter where they were on the depth chart, its a lot more important to look at the player's skill sets.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
According to Wikipedia, Brady beat out Henson and was a two year starter unlike Sanchez.
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King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Perfect opinion for the thread title. I would be interested in what you see out of Sanchez that you dislike.
A
awesomeness
Guest
My bad about Henson. But still, Brady backed up his freshman and sophomore season just like Mark Sanchez did. Sanchez would be a 2 year starter at USC if he decided to return.
massraider
Footballguy
If my aunt had a willy, she'd be my uncle.We went thru this with JaMarcus Russell two years ago. Football Outsiders had a article with a mythical cut-off line for college starts for a QB, and the QBs that succeed had more than that. It was the main argument for Quinn over Russell. And it got pounded into everyone's head: Quinn is pro-ready! Russell will need to sit for three years!! The verdict isn't in on either one of those two QBs, but I do find it interesting that Sanchez has pretty much gotten a pass on this one question by the TV draftniks.
Andy Herron
Footballguy
Too few games played. Not much of a resume.
See Akili Smith.
See Akili Smith.
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
the same thing i didn't like about jrussell. not enough starts.
A
awesomeness
Guest
i'm not arguing that Sanchez did the right thing in declaring for the draft. If you read all my posts and not take that post out of context, you'll see that i'm arguing that one shouldn't think Sanchez is going to fail in the NFL just because John David Booty was starting over him.ninerfanatic492000
Footballguy
true that it normally takes players of this type of scenario longer to develop but there are quite a few players that have suceeded with limitied playing time or sitting for years. Flacco transferred b/c he couldn't unseat worldbeater Tyler Palko. Matt Cassel's story of not starting is well documented. Steve Young switched to RB for a bit waiting for Jimmy Mac to graduate. as previously posted Brady didn't start out of the gates and it took injuries to Henson for him to really take hold of the starting job(when healthy Henson was the #### at UM).
Domination
Footballguy
I think for the main criticism of the guy being inexperience, his stock is completely dependent on who drafts him. I believe if he were to land on a team that would allow him to learn the playbook and the game for a year, he could be a very successful QB for them in the future. The problem could arise if a team were to draft him with the expectations of him playing time this year.
stevegamer
Footballguy
Only a 1 season starter, and playing at USC - both already mentioned.
Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll
Footballguy
Prior to Vince Young in 2006, 13 underclassman quarterbacks had been selected in the first round of the NFL draft. Here are their career totals, as of the end of the 2005 season, ranked by passer rating.Quarterback
Ben Roethlisberger
Drew Bledsoe
Michael Vick
Tim Couch
Tommy Maddox
Rex Grossman
Todd Marinovich
Rick Mirer
Andre Ware
Heath Shuler
Ryan Leaf
Alex Smith
Aaron Rodgers
http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Artic...irst_round.html
massraider
Footballguy
Yep, I read this stuff as well back then.But the love-fest Sanchez is enjoying now is making me wonder where all this info I read two years ago is now.
Todd McShay was sure pounding it into my brain, as he talked up the immortal John Beck. Haven't heard it, AT ALL, this year.
These juniors that come out, they need a bit more of the kid gloves than a guy like Matt Ryan. Which is the scary part. Teams drafting that high generally don't have the stable coaching/ownership situation necessary to allow these guys to develop.
If Sanchez winds up in what I view as a bad situation, I'll be a lot more likely to stay away. But if he winds up in, say, Seattle, and can sit for a year behind a viable starter, I would certainly be more optimistic about his chances. I think when it comes to QBs, the player winds up getting way too much blame when things don't go right.
I know this, there aren't any QB skills that really make me nervous with Sanchez. He hasn't shown the accuracy problems that I saw in Young/Quinn, and has much, much better physical traits than Leinart.
JAA
Footballguy
Excellent question. I think the big 2 issues are
1. Not enough tape
2. Long ball
Its not fair to judge his ability based on 1, however you can certainly judge his draft position based on it. Regarding 2, there have been tons of QBs who supposedly cant throw the long ball. I find this to be a reidiculous indicator, especially for a starting QB at USC as they run a pro offense.
Im not a huge Stafford fan. I dont believe anyone really is. However, I wasnt a Ryan fan so you can take my opinion and wipe your ### w it. I believe that if Stafford doesnt go #1, both QBs could land in the middle of the round. THat would be nuts.
1. Not enough tape
2. Long ball
Its not fair to judge his ability based on 1, however you can certainly judge his draft position based on it. Regarding 2, there have been tons of QBs who supposedly cant throw the long ball. I find this to be a reidiculous indicator, especially for a starting QB at USC as they run a pro offense.
Im not a huge Stafford fan. I dont believe anyone really is. However, I wasnt a Ryan fan so you can take my opinion and wipe your ### w it. I believe that if Stafford doesnt go #1, both QBs could land in the middle of the round. THat would be nuts.
nittanylion
Footballguy
I attended Penn State from the mid-80's through early-90's. At that time, the University of Miami,(Florida) Football Program was basically a 'boot camp' for the NFL...they made it a business to send NFL-ready prospects to the Big Leagues, and the 'hit rate' was pretty high.
Pete Carroll's USC Program is the modern-day equivalent of that Miami Program. Carroll runs an NFL-Style Offense, and has pretty much 3-Deep talent/depth at at every position across the board on both sides of the LOS. Talent/depth that could either start or compete for a starting position at any other PAC-10 school...but it's important to remember that at that level, we're still comparing apples to apples.
Carroll and the USC Staff do everything they're capable of doing to assist those NCAA-Level Apples development into NFL-Level Oranges, and it will never cease to fascinate and amaze me at how some seemingly 'can't miss' prospects actually do - what we call 'their football skills not translating to the Pro Level'. USC seems to be doing a pretty good job with their 'hit rate', much like Miami, Fla did previously.
What I'm getting at is that Carroll right there at the top of the list when it comes to preparing his players to play at the NFL Level, and knowing what it takes to succeed once you get there, and that leads to my personal #1 indictment of Mark Sanchez: Carroll actively discouraged Sanchez from going Pro, and actively voiced his displeasure when Sanchez chose to ignore his advice and do so. When Carroll subsequently praised Sanchez at his ProDay in April, to me it sounded contrived, as in - 'now that the kid's definitely going, I'll do what I can to help him'...as far as I'm concerned, first reaction is always the most honest reaction, and Carroll's backtracking at Sanchez' Pro Day sounded an awful lot like damage control, or casting the best light on the situation once 'what's done was done' to me.
Remember, the USC Football Roster is as deep as the day is long, and Carroll is completely insulated within his position as Head Coach - he doesn't gain or lose anything if Sanchez stays or goes - the '09 Roster finishes right near the top, or outright wins the PAC-10 and goes to a major Bowl Game whether Sanchez is there or not, unless there's a disaster of monumental proportions.
When Carroll doesn't think a Player should declare, IN MY OPINION, it's a pretty safe bet to take a pass on him, and let someone else take the risk of him developing or not in the NFL.
Based on where he's going to go in the NFL Draft and in the Dynasty Drafts/Auctions I've seen, it's important to remember that it's not likely he's going to EXCEED expectations in relation to his Draft Position. He's not going to be a bargain. He'll either live up to the expectations of a high NFL or Fantasy Pick OR be a tremendous bust based on comparative choices available when the pick is made.
When taken into account, I personally think the Carroll issue is enough of a Red Flag to allow someone else to assume that risk.
For the sake of discussion, I'll also add that with a few exceptions, I only play in High-Stakes Leagues, and my personal philosophy for both the Dynasty and ReDraft Leagues I compete in is to 'win now'. I'm not much into rostering Players for developmental purposes, so perhaps my opinion is colored by my playing style, but for what it's worth, that's my .02...
I won't be drafting Sanchez, and I fervently pray that the Team I follow the closest, the Redskins, don't draft him either. The best place for him to wind up, IMO, is a Team with a relatively stable Starter (Hasselbeck being the best example of the Teams reportedly interested), where he's under no pressure to immediately perform, and where he gets an opportunity to ease into the NFL Game rather than being immediately thrown into the fire.
Just my opinion, and good luck to those who decide to hang your hats on him!
Pete Carroll's USC Program is the modern-day equivalent of that Miami Program. Carroll runs an NFL-Style Offense, and has pretty much 3-Deep talent/depth at at every position across the board on both sides of the LOS. Talent/depth that could either start or compete for a starting position at any other PAC-10 school...but it's important to remember that at that level, we're still comparing apples to apples.
Carroll and the USC Staff do everything they're capable of doing to assist those NCAA-Level Apples development into NFL-Level Oranges, and it will never cease to fascinate and amaze me at how some seemingly 'can't miss' prospects actually do - what we call 'their football skills not translating to the Pro Level'. USC seems to be doing a pretty good job with their 'hit rate', much like Miami, Fla did previously.
What I'm getting at is that Carroll right there at the top of the list when it comes to preparing his players to play at the NFL Level, and knowing what it takes to succeed once you get there, and that leads to my personal #1 indictment of Mark Sanchez: Carroll actively discouraged Sanchez from going Pro, and actively voiced his displeasure when Sanchez chose to ignore his advice and do so. When Carroll subsequently praised Sanchez at his ProDay in April, to me it sounded contrived, as in - 'now that the kid's definitely going, I'll do what I can to help him'...as far as I'm concerned, first reaction is always the most honest reaction, and Carroll's backtracking at Sanchez' Pro Day sounded an awful lot like damage control, or casting the best light on the situation once 'what's done was done' to me.
Remember, the USC Football Roster is as deep as the day is long, and Carroll is completely insulated within his position as Head Coach - he doesn't gain or lose anything if Sanchez stays or goes - the '09 Roster finishes right near the top, or outright wins the PAC-10 and goes to a major Bowl Game whether Sanchez is there or not, unless there's a disaster of monumental proportions.
When Carroll doesn't think a Player should declare, IN MY OPINION, it's a pretty safe bet to take a pass on him, and let someone else take the risk of him developing or not in the NFL.
Based on where he's going to go in the NFL Draft and in the Dynasty Drafts/Auctions I've seen, it's important to remember that it's not likely he's going to EXCEED expectations in relation to his Draft Position. He's not going to be a bargain. He'll either live up to the expectations of a high NFL or Fantasy Pick OR be a tremendous bust based on comparative choices available when the pick is made.
When taken into account, I personally think the Carroll issue is enough of a Red Flag to allow someone else to assume that risk.
For the sake of discussion, I'll also add that with a few exceptions, I only play in High-Stakes Leagues, and my personal philosophy for both the Dynasty and ReDraft Leagues I compete in is to 'win now'. I'm not much into rostering Players for developmental purposes, so perhaps my opinion is colored by my playing style, but for what it's worth, that's my .02...
I won't be drafting Sanchez, and I fervently pray that the Team I follow the closest, the Redskins, don't draft him either. The best place for him to wind up, IMO, is a Team with a relatively stable Starter (Hasselbeck being the best example of the Teams reportedly interested), where he's under no pressure to immediately perform, and where he gets an opportunity to ease into the NFL Game rather than being immediately thrown into the fire.
Just my opinion, and good luck to those who decide to hang your hats on him!
nittanylion
Footballguy
From a business standpoint, this may prove to be a very valid point. He's going to make millions, and be set for life, no matter how he winds up doing in the NFL, and given the '09 Crop compared to what appears to be a much deeper '10 crop, this may wind up being a financially wiser decision for Sanchez. In itself, that says nothing about his ability to compete at the NFL Level.Remains to be seen...
ExaltedOne
Footballguy
I don't like his face.
I think he's totally overrated because people think he's a "nice guy". He definitely needed more time starting in college. Juniors don't have a great success rate as it is, and his talent doesn't jump out at me that he'll be the exception.
Stafford is better in every way. I also think Pat White is better (other than size of course).
I think he's totally overrated because people think he's a "nice guy". He definitely needed more time starting in college. Juniors don't have a great success rate as it is, and his talent doesn't jump out at me that he'll be the exception.
Stafford is better in every way. I also think Pat White is better (other than size of course).
EBF
Footballguy
Good post nittany.
One caveat: just because Sanchez isn't ready right now doesn't mean he can't eventually develop into a quality player. I don't know whether he'll ultimately succeed or fail, but I think it could be an Aaron Rodgers or Chad Pennington situation where we don't get a good look at him for a few years. Of course, whoever uses an early pick on him will probably have an itchy trigger finger and force him into action before he's ready. If that happens then it could get ugly.
One caveat: just because Sanchez isn't ready right now doesn't mean he can't eventually develop into a quality player. I don't know whether he'll ultimately succeed or fail, but I think it could be an Aaron Rodgers or Chad Pennington situation where we don't get a good look at him for a few years. Of course, whoever uses an early pick on him will probably have an itchy trigger finger and force him into action before he's ready. If that happens then it could get ugly.
Apollo
Smeagol alias
Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll
Footballguy
Wilbur Wood
Footballguy
Pete Carroll's initial reaction (as I heard later interviews much closer to the draft in which Pete waiving Sanchez pom poms in a big way) needs to be taken with a major grain of salt. The 2009 USC "Plan" called for Sanchez to be their QB. This program takes the QB transition very seriously. Unlike some of the prior years, they do not have a real "ready now" QB in waiting for the 2009 season. Sanchez' departure threw a big monkey wrench into the USC 2009 season. They may respond fine to this transition, but it comes with a lot more risk than Carroll has had to face in many years.
JAA
Footballguy
So Pete was more concerned with his starting QB situation than helping Sanchez take the next step?
Dr. Awesome
Footballguy
Good call, Jason.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Well, this has held up extremely well.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
Stoled this from twitter
