HE ISN'T RUNNING HARD AT ALL
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What if...CJ DOESN'T have a big game vs. the Broncos (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Shutout
- Start date
Cross-posted from the bust thread:
What was with all the gives to Ringer?
Whenever I looked over to the TN/DEN game, it was Orton throwing to a WR-I-never-heard-of or Ringer losing 2 yards on a draw. I was playing against CJ, so I was pleased, but wtf?
Also...for those CJ owners who didnt watch the game. If Hass wouldnt have thrown the ball inaccurately, CJ was was wide open on a little circle route in the 2nd half where he would have gone the distance easily...25 or so yards. It doesnt make up for everything else today, but that TD should have been his.
What was with all the gives to Ringer?
Whenever I looked over to the TN/DEN game, it was Orton throwing to a WR-I-never-heard-of or Ringer losing 2 yards on a draw. I was playing against CJ, so I was pleased, but wtf?
Also...for those CJ owners who didnt watch the game. If Hass wouldnt have thrown the ball inaccurately, CJ was was wide open on a little circle route in the 2nd half where he would have gone the distance easily...25 or so yards. It doesnt make up for everything else today, but that TD should have been his.
eakfootball
Footballguy
Every year CJ has 3-4 awful games. Hopefully he is just getting them out of the way early.
This is nothing new...CJ struggled for several games late in the season last year too. My theory on CJ is that because he is on the smallish side, you have to give him 25+ carries every week to extract real value from him. He will have a ypc of 2 for his first 10 carries then bust a 20 yarder on his 11th. then he'll go nowhere on his next 7-8 carries and then bust a 40 or 50 yarder on his 20th carry. sprinkle in a td here and there and voila that is CJ's game.
CJ isnt going to move the pile. Thats not the type of back he is. If Munchek were smart he would sit down with the centerpiece of his offense that they just spent stupid money on and ask him the type of plays that he thinks fit his running style best. just like saunders and hugh jackson did for Mcfadden and just like Detroit did with Jhavid Best.
In fact, I would liken CJ to best. Very similar type players. Best isn going to move the pile either. He is a smallish back. But detroit finds ways to extract pretty good value from the kid. He is very active in the passing game.
I partly blame the play calling on CJ's slump. It's unimaginative. the other part of the blame lies with CJ as he is trying to soak in a new offense on the fly after sitting out of training camp like an ahole. He got paid, but now he is getting booed off the field bc he isnt living up to his big contract. Im partial to benching CJ if you have a better option. I unfortunately don't so Im gonna have to roll with his subpar performances until he picks it up.
CJ isnt going to move the pile. Thats not the type of back he is. If Munchek were smart he would sit down with the centerpiece of his offense that they just spent stupid money on and ask him the type of plays that he thinks fit his running style best. just like saunders and hugh jackson did for Mcfadden and just like Detroit did with Jhavid Best.
In fact, I would liken CJ to best. Very similar type players. Best isn going to move the pile either. He is a smallish back. But detroit finds ways to extract pretty good value from the kid. He is very active in the passing game.
I partly blame the play calling on CJ's slump. It's unimaginative. the other part of the blame lies with CJ as he is trying to soak in a new offense on the fly after sitting out of training camp like an ahole. He got paid, but now he is getting booed off the field bc he isnt living up to his big contract. Im partial to benching CJ if you have a better option. I unfortunately don't so Im gonna have to roll with his subpar performances until he picks it up.
Lester Long
Footballguy
I think teams are just daring the Titians to beat them in the air. Hassleback keeps playing like he is and lanes will open up for Johnson.
timschochet
Footballguy
The reason that Chris Johnson was a high first round FF pick is because he's supposed to be a guy who does not need lanes to open up in order to have a good game. An ordinary back gets good yards when lanes open up; but you don't spend a first rounder on an ordinary back. High first rounders are supposed to be elite guys who perform well under adverse conditions. I can't wait for lanes to open up for Chris Johnson. He may never face a better situation than he did today: at home against a lousy run defense. The lanes may never open up all year. I'm forced to bench him until he shows me otherwise. At this point I don't expect it.
It was an ad-lib play by Hasselbeck and yes he broke open, but he also didn't even run hard, he jogged out into the flat, then Matt implored him to turn upfield and threw the ball but CJ moved at half speed and the ball sailed over his head.
It's pathetic, I don't know what is going on but this guy is not putting out an effort and he has an effort team everywhere around him. Does anyone else follow this guy on Twitter? He doesn't even make any sense. I literally don't understand any of his tweets.
Looks to me like the guy got paid, now he's coasting. He's not in shape, he's not motivated and he's not really a part of this team.
Now I'm not saying that can't or won't change as the year goes on but for now, he goes to the bench behind (of all people) Daniel Thomas.
Irish Chaos
Footballguy
not that its worth anything, but after the game...he said this on twitter:"At least we still winning will get this fixed very soon"
"Got to keep pushing"
I just traded for him after today so im hopin he is just not in game shape yet but is about to come around...
mad sweeney
Footballguy
I didn't watch all of the game, just flipped around to it a lot because I have CJ, but this seems to have some truth to it. Any time I saw the ball go to someone else, especially on the other side off the offense, he did NOTHING. Barely came out of his stance, walked around, didn't get to the point of attack to block downfield, nothing. I did see him do a great blitz pickup on one play, but the dude didn't look like he was trying to be a part of the Titans out there.
Lester Long
Footballguy
I understand why you took him and what you expected but all RB's need lanes with maybe the exception of Adrian Peterson as that guy is a freak. but don't think for a 2nd the Titans are gonna go away from Johnson and with Hassleback showing the Titans can beat you in the air I expect bigger things for Johnson.hes a great buy low guy who I am going after hard core in all my leagues.
silentcoach
Footballguy
I'd be worried. Ppr wise he is barely "startable" (according to his past 3 games) b/c he has been catching a lot, but standard league--whoa buddy.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
This has gone from 
to 
in just three weeks. However I don't see how I can sell now. His value can't really get much lower at this point. You'd be basically selling low.
Right now you'd be hard pressed to get a top wr for him. Maybe a mid-level guy like Dez Bryant or something.
to in just three weeks. However I don't see how I can sell now. His value can't really get much lower at this point. You'd be basically selling low.Right now you'd be hard pressed to get a top wr for him. Maybe a mid-level guy like Dez Bryant or something.
Yes.To be the devil's advocate here, that was an excellent catch down the left sideline deep by CJ when lined up as a WR. That could have been Britt. That play caught my attention and when I found out it was him (and not a WR) I was impressed.
Shutout
Footballguy
That is actually an acceptable use of "is" if the writer intended the statement as a comment and then an afterthought. So if he is saying "your grammar is..." and then, as an afterthought, "and your punctuation is too...", then its fine. Similar to "Here are a pen and an eraser. Here is a pen and an eraser."
"On the left are Mr. Tobacco and Mrs. Lighter. On the left is Mr. Tobacco and Mrs. Lighter."
The difference showing in each whether intended as singular or plural groupings.
Now, could he have placed a hyphen between "sub" and "elementary"? Yeah.
Shutout
Footballguy
Last year he had 7 pedestrian games (no touchdowns and ~72 or less yards), which begs the questions of whether he is really an elite fantasy player. Yes, his total is high, but it comes in such "feast or famine" type bunches, that he is not nearly as stable for owners who need him as a RB1 as guys like Rice, MJD, ADP, McCoy, Foster, etc are. Seeing a lot of owners talking about how he is really killing them right now.Seems like from the posts last night and this morning, the consensus is you must hold him if you have him and can't really sell him.So the question is "do you start him as a #1 or #2 RB?
TheDemon
Footballguy
That isn't.
Shutout
Footballguy
Very good! I left that in there to see if anyone would notice.
My other favorites are to/too/two and regardless/irregardless and i.e vs. E.g. (which has to be about the most misued phrase ever).Bronco Nation
Footballguy
You might also want to fix the two failures in apostrophe usage while you're at it.'thatguy said:
Instinctive
Footballguy
I would have offset "and punctuation" with commas on either side - grammar, and punctuation, is...'Shutout said:
i.e and e.g. are so easy to use too - it's actually kind of sad. E.g. - people seem to forget that they don't have the same meaning, i.e. they have different meanings.'Shutout said:Very good! I left that in there to see if anyone would notice.'TheDemon said:
Goldfinger007
Footballguy
There was actually a lot to be optimistic about in this game. A whole lot! That is, if you actually watched it and didn't just look at the stat line. The first couple of weeks, the offense was very predictable with CJ in the game. He obviously wasn't (and still isn't 100%) integrated into the pass game. When he was in there, teams would completely sell out to stop the run. Denver did the same thing, but if you noticed, he was actually out running legit patterns in this game and not just sneaking out in the flats. That sideline catch was a thing of beauty and you can bet you're going to see him more and more integrated over the next couple of weeks. They're going to start making teams pay for stacking the line. Actually they already have with Britt, but now with him out and CJ starting to figure out what patterns he's suppose to be running, who do you think is going to be making those big plays? Think about it, how many LBs and/or safeties can keep up with his speed? Once he starts burning them down the field, its going to be really hard for teams to stack the line against him and we all know what that means. He could definitely put up some monster numbers by the time its all said and done. I know its tough to be patient here, but there really is plenty of reason to be more than optimistic.'Tango said:
Shutout
Footballguy
The problem with that idea is if Britt is lost and the teams start thinking that they will simply take away CJ as their best plan to win the game then you have the extra defensive players to double up on CJ. Teams can blitz the gaps and their DBs will be playing down far enough to pick him up AFTER he has fought through the gaps filled with defenders. It sounds like a nice idea but in execution you are talking about timing. Agains tteams that can't put pressure on the QB, they can probably do it. Against teams that can get to the QB, there will be no time. If we are painting ideas of how the loss of Britt helps CJ, i don't know how we can find it. In theory, you would think Britt stretching the field would be about the biggest help Cj could have. In short, Britt's production this year should have led to a couple of huge runs or passes by CJ already but it has not. So, I don't like his chances going forward. I am sure there will always be some games where he will do well but after three complete games of showing relatively nothing, that says more about what the consistency model is than anything.
LittlePhatty
Footballguy
Disagree. CJ has always been a space runner who excels at avoiding contact, not barreling through it.He's one of the best at being patient, waiting for blocks and holes to open up before turning on the afterburners.'timschochet said:
So far he's just not getting that space. Maybe having Vince Young as a running threat opened up the field more. Everyone on the defense knows where Hass will be standing.
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Superdbs
Footballguy
I've had Johnson in a keeper league since he was a rookie, so I watch a lot of Titan games on the Ticket and FWIW, this year seems pretty much like last year to me. A lot of short gains and negative yardage plays, a lot of hunting for holes along the line without hitting it up in there hard,etc, only this season there have been zero big plays to balance it out.
He doesn't look like he's in form yet, but I still think a lot of this mess is in the line play. To me, they're not the same since they lost Mawae at center. Ringer was completely buried yesterday too, so it's not like they've been plugging him in there and he goes off where CJ can't. Even with the passing game rolling, it's still not loosening up the defenses, and now with Britt out, it's probably going to get worse without some creative playcalling. He does have the occasional 8 or 9 yd run (when it's not called back on a penalty) where he shows flashes of himself, so I'm not going to give him away for nothing. Like others have said, what are you going to get at this point anyway? All he has going right now is name recognition, and it's going to be hard to talk most owners into giving you even remotely equal value. I'm holding, at least for a while longer yet, and hoping he gets his #### together and also that the Tennessee staff can figure out how to spring him.
He doesn't look like he's in form yet, but I still think a lot of this mess is in the line play. To me, they're not the same since they lost Mawae at center. Ringer was completely buried yesterday too, so it's not like they've been plugging him in there and he goes off where CJ can't. Even with the passing game rolling, it's still not loosening up the defenses, and now with Britt out, it's probably going to get worse without some creative playcalling. He does have the occasional 8 or 9 yd run (when it's not called back on a penalty) where he shows flashes of himself, so I'm not going to give him away for nothing. Like others have said, what are you going to get at this point anyway? All he has going right now is name recognition, and it's going to be hard to talk most owners into giving you even remotely equal value. I'm holding, at least for a while longer yet, and hoping he gets his #### together and also that the Tennessee staff can figure out how to spring him.
RavenLunatic
Footballguy
He must have learned how to give max effort from Randy Moss last year!
Goldfinger007
Footballguy
They've already been thinking they will simply take CJ away and that's what they've done. They've sold out to stop the run every time CJ was in there, regardless of the fact that Britt was burning them. What was different in this game was CJ was down field running routes, instead of just blocking or drifting into the flat on every pass play. So regardless, he's not going to be so one dimensional now, that's only going to help his numbers. After Britt went out, Hass starting looking at CJ and hit him for a very nice gain along the sideline. He also just barely missed him on a circle route that would have definitely went for six if he had hit him. The loss of Britt is bad for the overall offense but less so for CJ on an individual basis, because as was evidenced once Britt went out, CJ was the hot read on a couple plays. You have to think that's going to be more and more the case as CJ gets more integrated. As far as DB's playing down, that's fine. I don't see anyone putting a corner on him, unless its a nickel, which would then give him more running room. Go ahead, put a safety on him. Might as well bring an LB too. How long are they going to be able to keep up with him?
Shutout
Footballguy
I guess that is all well and good. Just keep in mind that the Broncos are one of the worst defenses in the league even when thye had Bailey so I am just not very excited from what I have seen. Using CJ even more than he has been is a double edged sword IF it takes a lot more workload to get him back up to the numbers we have been accustomed to. All that really exemplifies is that CJ is not performing as we expect him to (which we already knew). I don't own him and am not trying to trade for him in any leagues. I imagine there are not many people selling him. I just wonder if he is usuable as anything beyond a RB3 at this point. We can reason until the end of time but at the end of the day guys like him and DWIL and Gore are hurting their FF teams.
The whole question of this thread was to ask what that says about CJ if he continued for a third straight week of not doing much of anything and not doing to the Broncos what every other team has for the last year or so.
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HELLLLLLLOOOOO? MCFLY???? BUELLER???? HE ISN'T TRYING, HE ISN'T RUNNING HARD.
This is the NFL which stands for Not For Long if he keeps pitter pattering into the hole and falling down immediately upon contact.
LittlePhatty
Footballguy
Is this your first year watching CJ? He never has run "hard". His strengths are speed and elusiveness.He has never been the kind of back to approach the line of scrimmage at full speed, trying to punch out an extra 3 or 4 yards by breaking tackles.
He waits until he sees daylight and goes from 0-60 in an instant.
The problem so far has been a lack of daylight shining through the lines.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
You know I play in three leagues. I know his value is bottomed out and I own him in two. I'm considering aggressively pursuing him in the other league. I might as well. As an owner I know I won't get much for him in a trade. So instead of trying to divest and run, I'm going to try to push my chips in and bank on a recovery.
Joe Summer
Footballguy
Absolutely.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Would you take Steven Jackson for him right now? I have the opportunity to snag Jackson during our silent auction this week. His owner cut him last week thinking he would be able to get him back due to the cap space situation. I could snipe him by cutting CJ2k though if I want to.
At least CJ isn't injured. I hate acquiring damaged goods.
At least CJ isn't injured. I hate acquiring damaged goods.
Instinctive
Footballguy
I wouldn't. The other owner going after him offered me the same Jackson and B Marshall deal he's offered the original owner and I said no.CJ is a stud. He's still a stud. He had to learn a new offense on the fly though - he'll come around more and more as the season goes on and that blazing speed and superior vision show through.
Instinctive
Footballguy
I think his upside is 13 games of a pace for 2400+ total yards lolI think Jackson has a hard time keeping it up all year. I've been wrong before though, and I wouldn't be surprised if Jackson ends up a top 10 RB at year's end. And for some teams I could see making that deal. But in my team's situation, with depth, the best move is to wait on CJ and see if he comes around - Fred Jackson doesn't have the potential (in my mind) to go for 250+ yfs in a game like CJ4.24 can.I wouldn't fault anyone for taking FJax over CJ4.24 at this point in the season. It's probably a decent deal. But you asked me specifically, and in my specific situation it makes more sense to wait on CJ4.24's upside.Look at it like this: Some people think the trajectory from her eon out is the same as it has been for each player. Others think:CJ4.24 - - UP UP UP UP UPFJax - - DOWN DOWN DOWN back to earth (you know, when he remembers that he's Fred Jackson)
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fantasizing
Footballguy
I think the loss of Britt really hurts CJ's chances. Brit demands alot of coverage and "eventually" would
have drawn defenders off the line to cover him.
Having said that, I'm having alot of trouble believing a 25 year old RB who has rushed for an average of 1500 yards
over the last 3 seasons has suddently lost a step.
There are probably alot of negative factors contributing to his lack of succcess so far (weak O-Line, lack of offence knowledge,
lack of game shape, new QB, etc), and the problem is is that ALL of them are happening at the same time resulting
in his poor performances so far.
have drawn defenders off the line to cover him.
Having said that, I'm having alot of trouble believing a 25 year old RB who has rushed for an average of 1500 yards
over the last 3 seasons has suddently lost a step.
There are probably alot of negative factors contributing to his lack of succcess so far (weak O-Line, lack of offence knowledge,
lack of game shape, new QB, etc), and the problem is is that ALL of them are happening at the same time resulting
in his poor performances so far.
No way !!! I like CJ's chances of bouncing back better than Jackson's.
Shutout
Footballguy
It has been a long time since I have seen so many people take potential over actual production. FJAX is flat out getting it done and CJ is the big name. Kind of reminds me of Foster last year where everyone was saying they would take Forte over Foster, Bradshaw over Foster, etc. Dynasty and keeper is one thing but in redrafts, all these people waiting for CJ to "kick it in" may ust find themselves sitting on 2-4 records with the season half gone.
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thatguy
Footballguy
Touche.
CJ<100 hasn't been a good back dating back to the 2nd half of last season. He's too young to be done but teams are getting better at preparing for him and he's too hungry for the game changer that he's not taking what's there. Sure he may best an 80 yard TD soon but he'll have a heck of a lot of 40-80 yard empty games along the way ... especially with Britt out. I'd buy low but only if it really was low.
Instinctive
Footballguy
Steven Jackson was the back in question here. I like both to bounce back - SJax has just been injured, and CJ4.24 has just missed all of TC and had to get on the same page as a new offense and a new QB. I'd buy both if I didn't already have SJax'Shutout said:
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Instinctive
Footballguy
Isn't 2000 yards always gonna look like a fluke? The guy has never rushed for less than 1200 in a season, has he? His lowest total yfs was his rookie season of 1488...I don't think at age 26 he's experiencing a major physical decline - the notion is laughable.The guy has to learn a new offense and get adjusted to a new QB. He's getting more involved each week, he'll get better each week, and we'll all look back and say "Man, what were we thinking about Chris Johnson early in the season?"
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