What is the best scoring system? (1 Viewer)

[timschochet]

Would like some help here.

Our league is in it's second year, (10 players.) There have been all sorts of complaints about discrepancies caused by the scoring system, so much so that the commish has asked me to take over next year. So based upon all of your experiences, what works the best?

1. How much should the QB be worth, compared to everyone else?

2. Should RBs, WRs, TE, K, and DEF all have a potential of equal value, and what is the best way to achieve that?

3. What's your opinion of PPL?

4. How many players on the bench?

Obviously, there are lots of different varieties: I'm looking for ways to make the league as equal and intriguing as possible.

Appreciate the input

 

[greenline]

We are a 10 team league that uses 2QB'. It balances things out. Also it's PPR and we start 3 WR's.

 

[timschochet]

We are a 10 team league that uses 2QB'. It balances things out. Also it's PPR and we start 3 WR's.

How many points does a QB typically score in your league, as compared to RBs and WRs?

 

[switz]

Are you allowed to ask this question in the Shark Pool? I started a poll yesterday about return yards in scoring systems and it was deleted.

 

[timschochet]

Are you allowed to ask this question in the Shark Pool? I started a poll yesterday about return yards in scoring systems and it was deleted.

Really? I don't know. I figured we could discuss scoring systems here, but if I messed up, Im sorry.

 

[Road Warriors]

Would like some help here.Our league is in it's second year, (10 players.) There have been all sorts of complaints about discrepancies caused by the scoring system, so much so that the commish has asked me to take over next year. So based upon all of your experiences, what works the best?1. How much should the QB be worth, compared to everyone else?2. Should RBs, WRs, TE, K, and DEF all have a potential of equal value, and what is the best way to achieve that?3. What's your opinion of PPL?4. How many players on the bench?Obviously, there are lots of different varieties: I'm looking for ways to make the league as equal and intriguing as possible.Appreciate the input

I use a 6pts for all TDs, 1 pt / 10 yd rush/recv, PPR scoring. QB, 2RB, 3WR, TE, Flex, K, D, 6 bench. This works pretty well in a 12 team league, but this format doesn't promote equal value for QBs. WR/RB are pretty equal, but QB availability in a start 1 league makes the QB less valuable ( in a VBD sense ). Using this year as an example, most projections had the gap between QB6 & QB12 somewhere less than a point per projected game. No rush to draft one, they're all the same.Start 2 QBs ( especially in a 10 man league ) will greatly increase the value of QBs so that it quickly becomes a more even distribution in the draft of RB, WR and QB.

 

[BroadwayG]

3. What's your opinion of PPL?

 

[Wilbur Wood]

12 team league

Lineup requirements and scoring system are interrelated as both impact player value, so I'll list both.

Objective is to allow multiple strategies with respect to winning and make the top producers at different positions of comparable value.

Also, reward big plays but in a less "TD-centric" manner:

Starting Lineup: 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 D, 1 K, 1 Super Flex (any position)

Decimal Scoring:

0.1 pt for 1 yard rush/rec

0.05 pt for 1 yd pass

6 pts per TD scored

4 pts per TD thrown

-2 pts per int/fumble lost

1 pt per 20+ yard rush, 1 more pt for 40+ yard rush

2 pts per 40+ yard rec

2 pts per 40+ yard pass

1 pt per 1st down reception (WR only)

1.5 pt per 1st down reception (TE only)

Rush avg (RB only) up to 4 pts (4.5, 5.0, 5.5, 6.0)

Pass comp % (QB only) up to 4 pts (55, 60, 65, 70%)

Def/ST

Up to 10 pts for points allowed (excluding pts scored on turnovers), sliding scale with negative points deducted for 30+ pts allowed

Up to 10 pts for yard allowed (<200 yard = 10 pts, 0 pts at 400-450 yards, negative pts > 450 yards)

6 pts for all TDs

2 bonus pts for long TDs (> 50 yds)

2 pts for turnovers

1 pt per sack

Kickers

3 pts per FG

1 pt per PAT

3 bonus pts > 45 yards

6 bonus pts > 50 yards

negative pts for missed kicks

 

[timschochet]

12 team leagueLineup requirements and scoring system are interrelated as both impact player value, so I'll list both.Objective is to allow multiple strategies with respect to winning and make the top producers at different positions of comparable value.Also, reward big plays but in a less "TD-centric" manner:Starting Lineup: 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 D, 1 K, 1 Super Flex (any position)Decimal Scoring:0.1 pt for 1 yard rush/rec0.05 pt for 1 yd passour flex is limited to rb/wr; do people play qbs in your flex?6 pts per TD scored4 pts per TD thrown-2 pts per int/fumble lost1 pt per 20+ yard rush, 1 more pt for 40+ yard rush2 pts per 40+ yard rec2 pts per 40+ yard pass1 pt per 1st down reception (WR only)1.5 pt per 1st down reception (TE only)Rush avg (RB only) up to 4 pts (4.5, 5.0, 5.5, 6.0)Pass comp % (QB only) up to 4 pts (55, 60, 65, 70%)Def/STUp to 10 pts for points allowed (excluding pts scored on turnovers), sliding scale with negative points deducted for 30+ pts allowedUp to 10 pts for yard allowed (<200 yard = 10 pts, 0 pts at 400-450 yards, negative pts > 450 yards)6 pts for all TDs2 bonus pts for long TDs (> 50 yds)2 pts for turnovers1 pt per sackKickers3 pts per FG1 pt per PAT3 bonus pts > 45 yards6 bonus pts > 50 yardsnegative pts for missed kicks

 

[timschochet]

3. What's your opinion of PPL?

ppr, sorry

 

[Jersey35]

I'm not going to get too in depth, but when I created our scoring rules, I used a few pretty simple rules of thumb to try and equalize scoring:

1) TD's are worth 6pts in the NFL, therefore, they are worth 6 in our league, no bonus for distance, since they are ALREADY getting points from the yards to begin with

2) reaching a "plateau" such as 100yds rush/rec or 300yd passing are nice, but to give bonuses for reaching these VERY subjective numbers made no sense, especially if a player was stopped just short - imagine a league where this was in play and one guy had 99 rush yards AND 99 rec yards... and was outscored by a guy with 100 rush yards. Instead, I made reaching any of these plateaus worth 6 points and did the division to get my yardage scoring (essentially 15yds rush/rec is 1pt, 50yds pass is 1 pt)

Hope this helps you work out what might work best for you!

 

[timschochet]

Thanks, everybody, for all of the great advice!

 

[jagerbomb]

I've switched my league from no ppr to ppr and now we've settled on 0.5 ppr. This gives a good balance and doesn't make the scoring too TD heavy.

I also like to give points for completions for QBs and take points away for incompletions, sacks and ints. This puts a bigger spread between the top QBs and the average QBs. It makes it so that the QBs who rack up yardage during garbage time aren't rewarded too much (these situation usually end up with incompletes, sacks and ints).

 

[Bad_Mo]

Give more weight to TE scoring. For example, instead of 1 point for every 10 yards receiving, give them 1 point for every 5/6 yards. Instead of 6 points for a TD, given them 7 points.

That will make your top 15 TEs competitive with your WR scoring.

 

[Aaronl5]

I love leagues that award points for KR & PR.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

I can tell you what scoring system sucks. Anything from TD only to 50/50.

 

[Nemesis]

IMO,....the #1 priority is to eliminate (or at least reduce) the "luck factor" and reward good drafting / good roster mgmt.

1) TD's: no bonus for distance (or at the most a +1 bonus)........they are ALREADY getting points from the yards to begin with. (mentioned above)

2) Eliminate the "plateau" bonus altogether...............................they are ALREADY getting points from the yards to begin with. (mentioned above)

3) Don't separate rushing and rec yards.......combine them and apply the 1pt/10 or whatever your league uses.

4) PPR: Consider using half points. In my league, we didn't want to award 1 ppr.......so we made it 0.5pts per every 2 receptions. This gives some credit......but we wanted more of an emphasis on TDs and yards.

5) If it's a 10 team league, consider 3 WR starters. Do the math......3 WRs starters per team X 10 fantasy teams = 30 NFL WR going each wk in your league. Since there's 32 NFL teams.........that's STILL 30 out of the 64 starting NFL WRs being used. Also, it allows teams to try to different draft strategies and load up on stud WRs.

6) Def/ST: Find categories that reward real defenses....yds against, pts against, sacks, int, fum rec. When you look at the top 5 or 10 fantasy defenses in your league at the end of the yr, most from that list should be in the top 10 REAL NFL defenses. Again, don't be afraid to give half points away so that defense scores are reasonable when you compard them to other fantasy positions. Also, NO bonus for length of TD......don't do it. Just b/c a crappy defense lets its opponent march all the way down the field and then they get a turnover and return it 90 yards.......doesn't make it a GOOD defense. Give them the 6pts and nothing more.

 

[switz]

Are you allowed to ask this question in the Shark Pool? I started a poll yesterday about return yards in scoring systems and it was deleted.

Really? I don't know. I figured we could discuss scoring systems here, but if I messed up, Im sorry.

Yeah I would figure the same... just found it odd my thread and poll were deleted.But to answer your question, it really depends on what the owners like the best. The primary dynasty league I'm in we don't use IDP because we just don't have the time to handle the extra work in doing an IDP draft. Our scoring system is NOT decimal, it's FLOOR 1pt per 10 yards. Rush and Rec TDs are 6, Pass TDs are 4 - which was voted on a LONG time ago. We give bonuses 1pt for every 10yds of a TD. FGs are 3pts with the same bonus. It basically gives big plays a bonus, which I like, because it's like the momentum change that happens in the NFL games after a big play.But there are many who would probably hate my league's scoring system. I don't think there is a "best" one.

 

[Chaka]

Sand pretty much wrote the definitive article on equilibration of scoring between positions. It is a must read.

It can be found here

 

[jagerbomb]

IMO,....the #1 priority is to eliminate (or at least reduce) the "luck factor" and reward good drafting / good roster mgmt.

1) TD's: no bonus for distance (or at the most a +1 bonus)........they are ALREADY getting points from the yards to begin with. (mentioned above)

2) Eliminate the "plateau" bonus altogether...............................they are ALREADY getting points from the yards to begin with. (mentioned above)

3) Don't separate rushing and rec yards.......combine them and apply the 1pt/10 or whatever your league uses.

4) PPR: Consider using half points. In my league, we didn't want to award 1 ppr.......so we made it 0.5pts per every 2 receptions. This gives some credit......but we wanted more of an emphasis on TDs and yards.

5) If it's a 10 team league, consider 3 WR starters. Do the math......3 WRs starters per team X 10 fantasy teams = 30 NFL WR going each wk in your league. Since there's 32 NFL teams.........that's STILL 30 out of the 64 starting NFL WRs being used. Also, it allows teams to try to different draft strategies and load up on stud WRs.

6) Def/ST: Find categories that reward real defenses....yds against, pts against, sacks, int, fum rec. When you look at the top 5 or 10 fantasy defenses in your league at the end of the yr, most from that list should be in the top 10 REAL NFL defenses. Again, don't be afraid to give half points away so that defense scores are reasonable when you compard them to other fantasy positions. Also, NO bonus for length of TD......don't do it. Just b/c a crappy defense lets its opponent march all the way down the field and then they get a turnover and return it 90 yards.......doesn't make it a GOOD defense. Give them the 6pts and nothing more.

Agree on all points. Even in a 12 team league, 3 WR is the way to go, there's just so many out there.

 

[switz]

Sand pretty much wrote the definitive article on equilibration of scoring between positions. It is a must read.

It can be found here

The problem with "equilibrium" is that it makes player equal, when in fact they aren't. Some positions are more valuable than others, hence why some positions are rarely drafted in the first round (i.e. safety).

 

[joffer]

In before this turns into a fest over 6pts vs. 4pts for TD passes.

 

[jagerbomb]

Sand pretty much wrote the definitive article on equilibration of scoring between positions. It is a must read.

It can be found here

That's a pretty good article. I had similar conclusions based on my own intuition so it's nice to see those backed up by some details. Our league has -0.1 point per incompletion which makes the QB curve logarithmic like the rest of the positions instead of linear. Also, 1 pt / 8 yards rec and 1 pt / 10 yards rushing give the receivers a boost to compete with the RBs (the article suggests giving more points for receiving TDs which has a similar effect). The first round is still mostly RB but the stud RB theory is definitely not the way to go. Most people have RB/WR/QB after 3 rounds.

 

[Chaka]

Sand pretty much wrote the definitive article on equilibration of scoring between positions. It is a must read.

It can be found here

The problem with "equilibrium" is that it makes player equal, when in fact they aren't. Some positions are more valuable than others, hence why some positions are rarely drafted in the first round (i.e. safety).

Yes but unfortunately in most leagues the most important position in the NFL is included in those unworthy of first round consideration.I look at at this way, if every player in the NFL were suddenly put into a draft pool and the 32 GMs had a common draft, how many QBs would be taken in the first round? How many in the top 5? I can pretty much say with 100% confidence that Manning, Brady and Palmer would be the top 3 picks.

But in most fantasy drafts people get ridiculed for taking a QB before the 5th round.

I prefer equilibration between positions to leagues slanted so heavily away from QBs.

 

[jadensdad]

12 team start 2 QB, 2 rb, 3 wr, 1 te,1 k 1 def. 16 man rosters 1 pt/10 rush receive. 1 pt 20 yards passing. 2 pts td pass, 3 pts td rush, 4 pts td receive. Equal value in every position.

 

[timschochet]

12 team start 2 QB, 2 rb, 3 wr, 1 te,1 k 1 def. 16 man rosters 1 pt/10 rush receive. 1 pt 20 yards passing. 2 pts td pass, 3 pts td rush, 4 pts td receive. Equal value in every position.

When you say "equal value" in every position:1. In my league right now, the QB averages twice as many points as every other position, because they touch the ball so much more. Is this the way it should be?2.If you have to start 2 QB's, do you find they get drafter even over RB's?3. What's the best way to make def and K "equal" to the other positions? Or should they be equal?Again, thanks for all the input. Very interesting reading!

 

[jadensdad]

they are drafted based on value, scarcity etc. first round last season 6 qb's, 5 rb's 1 wr. second round 7 wr's 3 qb's 2 rb's.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

Would like some help here.

Our league is in it's second year, (10 players.) There have been all sorts of complaints about discrepancies caused by the scoring system, so much so that the commish has asked me to take over next year. So based upon all of your experiences, what works the best?

1. How much should the QB be worth, compared to everyone else?

2. Should RBs, WRs, TE, K, and DEF all have a potential of equal value, and what is the best way to achieve that?

3. What's your opinion of PPL?

4. How many players on the bench?

Obviously, there are lots of different varieties: I'm looking for ways to make the league as equal and intriguing as possible.

Appreciate the input

General rules of thumb that I prefer:
Make the scoring such that each position is about equal - that means your #20 RB should score about what the #20 WR does - and that usually means PPR gets in the mix.
QBs should put up comparable points as RBs, not more - but the big discrepancy with QBs is that there is almost always depth on the waiver wire. With 10 teams I would push to start 2 QBs, or at the very least have a "superflex" (allow a QB to be a flex player). There are enough starters around to cover byes with 10 teams.
Everything counts (that means decimal scoring). 9 yards is almost 10, so 0.9 is almost 1.0
As for a bench - I like deep benches, but that's mostly because (A) I know the deeper guys and do better at the draft / later rounds, and (B) the waiver wire is shallower, which is fine by me as my waiver wire claims are often lower in order (i.e. I don't get first choices).
General bench size that I prefer is some form of "1 for 1" (i.e. 9 starters, 9 bench). You can shrink it a little for K / D, but given all the byes and the preference I have for the draft, start 9, bench of 9 would be good for me.
Waiver personal preference is to have fake $ to bid on waivers, so everyone has a shot at a player within their budget.
I'd recommend starting 2 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 K and 1 D. 10 start, 10 on bench.Above all, have fun!!!

 

[Paddy O'Seanessy]

Would like some help here.Our league is in it's second year, (10 players.) There have been all sorts of complaints about discrepancies caused by the scoring system, so much so that the commish has asked me to take over next year. So based upon all of your experiences, what works the best?1. How much should the QB be worth, compared to everyone else?2. Should RBs, WRs, TE, K, and DEF all have a potential of equal value, and what is the best way to achieve that?3. What's your opinion of PPL?4. How many players on the bench?Obviously, there are lots of different varieties: I'm looking for ways to make the league as equal and intriguing as possible.Appreciate the input

I use a 6pts for all TDs, 1 pt / 10 yd rush/recv, PPR scoring. QB, 2RB, 3WR, TE, Flex, K, D, 6 bench. This works pretty well in a 12 team league, but this format doesn't promote equal value for QBs. WR/RB are pretty equal, but QB availability in a start 1 league makes the QB less valuable ( in a VBD sense ). Using this year as an example, most projections had the gap between QB6 & QB12 somewhere less than a point per projected game. No rush to draft one, they're all the same.Start 2 QBs ( especially in a 10 man league ) will greatly increase the value of QBs so that it quickly becomes a more even distribution in the draft of RB, WR and QB.

No, that's awful. These are the best I've ever played by but I would perfect them by eliminating kickers and starting QB RB WR WR TE De:TD scores 6 pts(the DE position scores a TD by fumble, interception or blocked kick returns) TD pass scores 3 pts Field goal scores 3 pts 2-pt PAT scores 2 pts PAT kick or pass scores 1 pt Safety scores 2 pts(all safeties are credited to the DE) 100 yard increments of: rushing scores 5 pts receiving gets 5 pts passing: 1 pt for 1st 100 3 pts for 2nd 100 then increases by 1 pt for each additional 100 (i.e. 4 for 300, 5 for 400 etc) a bonus of 4 pts is awarded for EITHER 150 yard increments of combined rushing and receiving yards(this requires positive receiving yardage) OR increments of 6 receptions but there is not a seperate bonus for each (the next bonus comes at 300 yards OR 12 receptions) interceptions thrown scores -1 pt DE scores 3 pts for each: advantage(this is a head-to-head comparison of the amount of points scored by the DE's NFL opponent; the DE with the smaller number scores) allowing no touchdowns pitching a shutout(in all cases, there is no distinction for points scored against the offense; they count against the DE) Your goal in fantasy football rules is to improve your NFL experience NOT be a computer game; they should be simple enough that you pretty well know how your team is doing by catching the updates and have no need for a calculator."Standard Scoring", let alone "decimal" scoring is waste of time.

 

[Chaka]

12 team start 2 QB, 2 rb, 3 wr, 1 te,1 k 1 def. 16 man rosters 1 pt/10 rush receive. 1 pt 20 yards passing. 2 pts td pass, 3 pts td rush, 4 pts td receive. Equal value in every position.

When you say "equal value" in every position:1. In my league right now, the QB averages twice as many points as every other position, because they touch the ball so much more. Is this the way it should be?

2.If you have to start 2 QB's, do you find they get drafter even over RB's?

3. What's the best way to make def and K "equal" to the other positions? Or should they be equal?

Again, thanks for all the input. Very interesting reading!

Read this it will tell you how to make the positions relatively equal according to your league size.It's long buy you only need to read the portions related to your league size, I would still recommend reading the whole thing but that's just me.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Any league - with less then 12 teams or without IDPs - is fla\/\/ed.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Any league - with less then 12 teams or without IDPs - is fla\/\/ed.

Starting 8 on Off 1pt per 10 r/r

1pt per 20 p

-2int

6 for all TD

.5 pr for WR/TE

Use IDPs, starting 9

3 DL, 3LB, 3DB

.5 per tackle/assist/PD/FF/FR

3 per int/sack

 

[pig4skins]

start 1 qb, 2 rb, 3 wr/te, 1 k, 1 def/st

this is a longtime sportsline league - the site tracks everything perfectly.

best scoring system I've seen. full system below but here's the high points...we don't mandate a starting TE - always thought that was ridiculous. - we only award 3 for passing TDs...we give .5 per reception to rb/wr/te, .1 pt per rush / rec yard, .05 per passsing yard.

Scoring for Offensive Categories

FG - Field Goals 3 points

Plus 1 point for a FG of 40 to 49 Yds

Plus 2 points for a FG of 50+ Yds

Pa2P - Passing Two-point Conversion 1 point

PaTD - Passing TD 3 points

PaYd - Passing Yards 0+ PaYds = 0.05 points for every 1 PaYd

Re2P - Receiving Two-point Conversion 2 points

ReTD - Receiving TD 6 points

ReYd - Receiving Yards 0+ ReYds = 0.1 points for every 1 ReYd

Recpt - Reception .5 points

Ru2P - Rushing Two-point Conversion 2 points

RuTD - Rushing TD 6 points

RuYd - Rushing Yards 0+ RuYds = 0.1 points for every 1 RuYd

XP - Extra Points 1 point

Scoring for Defensive Categories

BFB - Blocked Field Goals (ID/ST/DST) 1 point

BP - Blocked Punts (ID/ST/DST) 1 point

BXP - Blocked Extra Points (ID/ST/DST) 1 point

DFR - Defensive/ST Fumble Recovered (ID/DT/DST) 1 point

DPA - Defensive Points Against 0 - 0 DPAs = 10 points

1 - 9 DPAs = 7 points

10 - 13 DPAs = 4 points

14 - 16 DPAs = 2 points

17 - 20 DPAs = 1 point

DTD - Total Defensive and Special Teams TD 6 points

Int - Interceptions 1 point

SACK - Sack 0.5 points

STPA - Special Teams Points Against Plus a -2 point bonus @ 6+ STPA

Plus a -2 point bonus @ 12+ STPA

STY - Safety 2 points

YDS - Yards Allowed 0 - 150 YDSs = 10 points

151 - 199 YDSs = 7 points

200 - 249 YDSs = 4 points

250 - 299 YDSs = 2 points

300 - 350 YDSs = 1 point

 

[timschochet]

Very interesting ideas here...

Do you guys who have been in both a 10 player league and a 12 have a preference between the two, and if so, why? I could always add two more players to our 10 man league next year; is it worth it?

 

[jadensdad]

definately add two more teams. Add's to the difficulty, and to the scarcity. Start 2 QB's is the only way to do

 

[burd]

i run a 10 team league w/ higher yardage goals and im not too crazy about how things are going. ive been in 1pt/10yrd leagues before and hated the way a backup RB would come in and rush for like 50 yards and get 5 points .... seemed excessive for someone who barely contributes.

anyway, this year we start 2QBs, 2RBS, 2WR, 2Flex, TE, K, Def with 10 teams ... people seem to like the 2 flex options because it gives them more options to fill their roster.

the scoring system is: 6pt TDs, -2 Ints.

passing yards: 1pt for every 50 yards, then it changes to 1pt for every 25yards after reaching 250 yards.

rushing/receiving yards: 1pt for every 20 yards, then 1pt for every 10 yards after reaching 100 yards.

like i said, im not to crazy about how the scoring is going so far ... it's very TD heavy. im considering changing it back to 25yrds passing and 10yrds receiving.

the difference ive noticed is that the scoring system i now use makes QBs more valuable because they have a greater chance of scoring multiple TDs a game compared to RBs and WRs. With lower yardage leagues, RBs seem to be more valuable because they can make up the fewer TD opprotunities by their yardage.

 

[proninja]

The one solution to this that I prefer the most is adding roster spots. I'm in a 10 teamer with 2 RB. 3 WR, 3 flex. It's great - really rewards you for drafting deep teams and working the wire well. In my opinion, it evens out the luck factor a little more.I'm in another league, 12 teams, and this league starts 1 RB, 2 WR, and 1 Flex. They tried to even out the RB by requiring less starters, which only half worked. RB's are worth less, but WR's aren't worth any more really, and everyone ends up with a team without a weakness they can't cover, because it's one of those mega-internet-super-expert leagues and everyone in it can at least draft a decent enough team with those starting requirements.There hasn't been a trade in that league in over two years, where the 10 team less "serious" league is more of a challenge and honestly more fun - tons of trading, wire action, etc. Add more flex players. It rocks.