What the Cincinnati Bengals should do? (1 Viewer)

[TheWinz]

There is a reason why Winston is available.  He's a below-average NFL QB that turns the ball over way too much.  You sign Winston, you're destined to win 5-8 games yearly with no hope of the playoffs.  Because Winston gives the opposition an average of 7 points a game off of turnovers.  In the NFL that is way too much of an edge to give.  Sure WInston has talent.  But it comes down to maximizing that talent when it matters the most.  Winston has failed to do that.   Protecting the ball matters so much in the NFL.  

A lot of QBs can throw for 5000 yards if you allow them to throw the ball over 600 times, have no running game, and give them Mike Evans, Chris Godwin, Brashad Perriman and OJ Howard to throw the ball to.

Now I agree with you that Burrow is slightly overrated.  He's definitely not the prospect that Peyton Manning or Andrew Luck were.  But I would rather take the chance that I can coach Burrow up to be a solid NFL QB like a Matt Ryan.

About the 3 other QB's you named...
Peyton Manning - 2 seasons over 600 passes; 1 season over 5K yards
Andrew Luck - 3 seasons over 600 passes; 0 seasons over 5K yards
Matt Ryan - 6 seasons over 600 passes, 0 seasons over 5K yards
These 3 combined for 11 seasons over 600 passes, and have a combined 1 season over 5K to show for it.  I think you are underestimating just how uncommon 5K is.

 

[Anarchy99]

About the 3 other QB's you named...
Peyton Manning - 2 seasons over 600 passes; 1 season over 5K yards
Andrew Luck - 3 seasons over 600 passes; 0 seasons over 5K yards
Matt Ryan - 6 seasons over 600 passes, 0 seasons over 5K yards
These 3 combined for 11 seasons over 600 passes, and have a combined 1 season over 5K to show for it.  I think you are underestimating just how uncommon 5K is.

You are underestimating just how uncommon 30 INT is.

 

[IHEARTFF]

Lasik, though.

 

[twood]

You are underestimating just how uncommon 30 INT is.

Its bad but it was an outlier.

His other years arent great td to int ratio.....but not as bad as last.

Still, high upside imo

 

[TheWinz]

You are underestimating just how uncommon 30 INT is.

4 HoF QB's have thrown 30 INT's
1 HoF QB has thrown over 5000 yards

 

[Anarchy99]

4 HoF QB's have thrown 30 INT's
1 HoF QB has thrown over 5000 yards

Winston is the only QB to throw for 5,000 yards with 30 INT. Or 25 INT. Or 20 INT.

All the turnovers and pick sixes only enabled Winston to throw for more yards. More possessions and game conditions that forced him to keep throwing. 

There are multiple things open for debate shoehorned in here. The outlook for Burrow. If Young is all that. If Winston is more of an asset or a drive killer. And how far away the Bengals are away from being competitive. 

I don’t think Winston is that much better than Dalton, so I would either draft Young or trade down and stick with Dalton (especially if folks don’t believe in Burrow). If I were GM, I would explore how cheap Winston would be, but he likely will want more money than I would want to pay him. 

 

[-OZ-]

Winston is the only QB to throw for 5,000 yards with 30 INT. Or 25 INT. Or 20 INT.

All the turnovers and pick sixes only enabled Winston to throw for more yards. More possessions and game conditions that forced him to keep throwing. 

There are multiple things open for debate shoehorned in here. The outlook for Burrow. If Young is all that. If Winston is more of an asset or a drive killer. And how far away the Bengals are away from being competitive. 

I don’t think Winston is that much better than Dalton, so I would either draft Young or trade down and stick with Dalton (especially if folks don’t believe in Burrow). If I were GM, I would explore how cheap Winston would be, but he likely will want more money than I would want to pay him. 

I think that's it. If the surrounding team is strong, Dalton can be a decent starting QB (above #32 anyway). But he sure can't carry it. 

If they're not sold on burrow, draft young and keep Dalton another year. 

 

[Ilov80s]

There is such an easy answer to this that the Bengals will 100% for sure screw it up. 

What they should do:

Trade out of the 1.01 and amass a truckload of draft picks in 2020 and 2021.

Draft Chase Young, Jeudy, or Lamb.

Draft other impact players this year with whatever other picks they get in that 1.01 deal.

Suck this year and have the 1.01 next year.

Draft Trevor Lawrence.

The Bengals would then be one of the most up and coming teams in the NFL.  But alas, we all know they are going to take Burrow.  He's going to be Sam Darnold.  And the Bengals are going to stink for the next 5 years.

It's not as easy as just sucking so bad you get 1.01. There are some real bad teams one has to compete with for 1.01. If Cinci starts Dalton with AJ Green, Tylor Boyd,John Ross and Mixon plus a healthy Jonah Williams and the OL they would presumably draft then the offense isn't that bad. If they put Young on the DL with Geno Atkins and DJ Reader to make one of the more formidable DL in the NFL. To me, that is more of a 4-6 win team than 2-3 win team. 

 

[BoltBacker]

I don’t think Winston is that much better than Dalton, so I would either draft Young or trade down and stick with Dalton (especially if folks don’t believe in Burrow). If I were GM, I would explore how cheap Winston would be, but he likely will want more money than I would want to pay him. 

1) It depends on the team they are playing for imo. If I were the Patriots/Niners/Titans/etc I'd much rather have Dalton. He'll lose you fewer games. If I were CIN/MIA I'd much rather have Winston. He'd either straighten out his career or you'd end up right back where you started. You would be much less likely to "improve" to a few games under .500 and that's the real downside. If they had started Dalton all year last season I think they could have probably had the 9th pick instead of the 1st pick.

2)How much money do you think Winston gets? It seems like a lot of people think that Winston is terrible AND that the NFL is going to give him a big contract. I'm not really convinced of either of those two things. What would you want to pay him if your other option was keeping Dalton?

 

[Anarchy99]

1) It depends on the team they are playing for imo. If I were the Patriots/Niners/Titans/etc I'd much rather have Dalton. He'll lose you fewer games. If I were CIN/MIA I'd much rather have Winston. He'd either straighten out his career or you'd end up right back where you started. You would be much less likely to "improve" to a few games under .500 and that's the real downside. If they had started Dalton all year last season I think they could have probably had the 9th pick instead of the 1st pick.

2)How much money do you think Winston gets? It seems like a lot of people think that Winston is terrible AND that the NFL is going to give him a big contract. I'm not really convinced of either of those two things. What would you want to pay him if your other option was keeping Dalton?

I think if CIN is more interested in tanking then Winston is a better option. Things could go way wrong and they could be terrible again. He has more upside than Dalton too, so there is a small chance he could give the offense a little more juice if he doesn't turn the ball over. But not sure you can take the turnovers away, as a lot of his INT's were just flat out bad throws to the wrong uniform.

As for the second part, I don't think Winston is terrible . . . but I am not sure he is anything more than average. Coaches will think the turnovers make him below average. Looking at teams that could have some level of need at QB: NE, MIA, CIN, LAC, JAX, WAS, and to a lesser degree DEN. That's still a decent amount of teams. Winston is probably asking for a contract in the $20Ms. If I were a GM for CIN, I would wait him out and try to get him for a one year deal for $12-15M, which probably won't happen.

If they could get a king's ransom for the top pick I would entertain it, but that would likely mean they wouldn't get Young either. It all depends what package of picks they could get and who they think they can get with those picks.

 

[BoltBacker]

If they could get a king's ransom for the top pick I would entertain it, but that would likely mean they wouldn't get Young either. It all depends what package of picks they could get and who they think they can get with those picks.

I agree with this. If MIA does come at them with an "all-in" offer I don't see how they can refuse. Young would be nice but they really do have a lot of needs imo. They rarely spend in FA like they did this year so they need all the home grown talent they can muster.

 

[beef]

Join the XFL?

 

[twood]

I think if CIN is more interested in tanking then Winston is a better option. Things could go way wrong and they could be terrible again. He has more upside than Dalton too, so there is a small chance he could give the offense a little more juice if he doesn't turn the ball over. But not sure you can take the turnovers away, as a lot of his INT's were just flat out bad throws to the wrong uniform.

As for the second part, I don't think Winston is terrible . . . but I am not sure he is anything more than average. Coaches will think the turnovers make him below average. Looking at teams that could have some level of need at QB: NE, MIA, CIN, LAC, JAX, WAS, and to a lesser degree DEN. That's still a decent amount of teams. Winston is probably asking for a contract in the $20Ms. If I were a GM for CIN, I would wait him out and try to get him for a one year deal for $12-15M, which probably won't happen.

If they could get a king's ransom for the top pick I would entertain it, but that would likely mean they wouldn't get Young either. It all depends what package of picks they could get and who they think they can get with those picks.

I agree with alot of this.

Get him under 20 (i said 17ish)

I would draft Young but also always listen to offers. One good draft trade can really set up a franchise.

Ride Winston's upside and see where it takes you.

 

[BoltBacker]

I understand Jameis can not be some peoples cup of tea but again, young QB's like him don't become available very often.....especially when players like Young can also be had.

Thoughts?

Not sure if you are still following along with this or not since they drafted Burrows, but remember when a bunch of people were telling both of us, "You can't give Jameis the money he wants and.......". Some of us were questioning why it mattered how much money he WANTS, because if there isn't a chair left when the music stops he'll be signing for much, much less than that. Turns out Jameis signed a contract for $1.1Mil I kid you not.

If the rumors that MIA was willing to give up the stars and the moon just to get up high enough to draft Burrow I still don't think they should have drafted Chase Young, especially not now that we know Tua was available at that #5 MIA pick. Can you just imagine having Jameis and Dalton at QB, with Tua waiting in the wings when he's completely healthy AND all that extra draft capital MIA was both willing and able to give up? This could have ended up being one of those Hershel Walker type trades that changes the future of a franchise. Especially if you think a healthy Tua might be every bit as good a pro as Burrows will be.

What could have been. That beleaguered fan base deserves something like that. It's a pity we didn't get to see it. The foundation of a Bengals dynasty? Burrows had better be awfully good.

 

[twood]

Not sure if you are still following along with this or not since they drafted Burrows, but remember when a bunch of people were telling both of us, "You can't give Jameis the money he wants and.......". Some of us were questioning why it mattered how much money he WANTS, because if there isn't a chair left when the music stops he'll be signing for much, much less than that. Turns out Jameis signed a contract for $1.1Mil I kid you not.

If the rumors that MIA was willing to give up the stars and the moon just to get up high enough to draft Burrow I still don't think they should have drafted Chase Young, especially not now that we know Tua was available at that #5 MIA pick. Can you just imagine having Jameis and Dalton at QB, with Tua waiting in the wings when he's completely healthy AND all that extra draft capital MIA was both willing and able to give up? This could have ended up being one of those Hershel Walker type trades that changes the future of a franchise. Especially if you think a healthy Tua might be every bit as good a pro as Burrows will be.

What could have been. That beleaguered fan base deserves something like that. It's a pity we didn't get to see it. The foundation of a Bengals dynasty? Burrows had better be awfully good.

Agreed

I also heard on Sirius radio that the Cincy coaches loved Herbert. I believe they actually said on the broadcast I was listening to that they preferred him to every other QB in the class.

Agreed...……. the 5 and other 2 1's and probably even their 1 next year. Would have done it in a second

 

[Tool]

Not sure if you are still following along with this or not since they drafted Burrows, but remember when a bunch of people were telling both of us, "You can't give Jameis the money he wants and.......". Some of us were questioning why it mattered how much money he WANTS, because if there isn't a chair left when the music stops he'll be signing for much, much less than that. Turns out Jameis signed a contract for $1.1Mil I kid you not.

If the rumors that MIA was willing to give up the stars and the moon just to get up high enough to draft Burrow I still don't think they should have drafted Chase Young, especially not now that we know Tua was available at that #5 MIA pick. Can you just imagine having Jameis and Dalton at QB, with Tua waiting in the wings when he's completely healthy AND all that extra draft capital MIA was both willing and able to give up? This could have ended up being one of those Hershel Walker type trades that changes the future of a franchise. Especially if you think a healthy Tua might be every bit as good a pro as Burrows will be.

What could have been. That beleaguered fan base deserves something like that. It's a pity we didn't get to see it. The foundation of a Bengals dynasty? Burrows had better be awfully good.

I wouldn’t believe any of those rumors. 

 

[rockaction]

I'm still trying to think why one of the most common name errors on this forum is BurrowS

We're still getting past "Malhomes" and "Connor." Makes me cringe. I don't think Conner will still be scoring fantasy points by the time half of the people on the board get his name. Which also means you can't be watching the games too closely, or you'd see the name on the back.

Psst: It's Mahomes and Conner.