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What would happen if the NFL put in weight restrictions? (3 Viewers)

Ministry of Pain

Footballguy
Rather than ask if this is a good idea or not, most will likely be against it. I think a better idea is simply to discuss what the impact would be. I've seen guys like Brad Culpepper, former DT from the TB Bucs and now successful lawyer in the Bay area, he went from about 280-290 lbs down to I believe he clocks in at just about 200 give or take a few pounds now. He knew he could not live a long life if he continued to stay at that weight. Look at all the ex NFL football players and how big they balloon up to at times. Some stay healthy but many end up living far shorter lives because of all the amount of weight they put on.

Don't kid yourself, sure there are guys who simply are just big like Flozell the Hotel, but many more are somewhat big guys maybe 6 foot 5 235 lbs if they didn't play football but the sport bulks them up to 330 lbs. It's not natural.

We demonize Barry Bonds in Baseball because of photos of what he looked like when he was in Pittsburgh vs what he turned into in the late 90s. Well look at the NFL players today vs guys just 30 or 40 years ago. Nick Buonicotti would be eaten alive today and he's a HoF MLB...ever see him in real life? He's short and just kinda medium sized. The avg OL back in those days was about 250-275 lbs. Somewhere in the last 25 years despite steroids not being used in the NFL(cough cough) players have managed to reach sizes out of control. You have 240 lb WRs, 275 lb QBs, 350 lb OL, 350 lb DTs, 250 lb LBs, 230 Lb Safeties....they are abnormally big and they take up too much space on the field. I would love to see weight limits per position and if you can't meet the numbers you can't play.

Search your feelings young Skywalkers you know it to be true.

What would the impact of this be? What dynamics would it change in the play calling and the types of plays that are run? Would it benefit one side of the ball over the other, if so how?

Thanks

 
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Rather than ask if this is a good idea or not, most will likely be against it. I think a better idea is simply to discuss what the impact would be. I've seen guys like Brad Culpepper, former DT from the TB Bucs and now successful lawyer in the Bay area, he went from about 280-290 lbs down to I believe he clocks in at just about 200 give or take a few pounds now. He knew he could not live a long life if he continued to stay at that weight. Look at all the ex NFL football players and how big they balloon up to at times. Some stay healthy but many end up living far shorter lives because of all the amount of weight they put on. Don't kid yourself, sure there are guys who simply are just big like Flozell the Hotel, but many more are somewhat big guys maybe 6 foot 5 235 lbs if they didn't play football but the sport bulks them up to 330 lbs. It's not natural. We demonize Barry Bonds in Baseball because of photos of what he looked like when he was in Pittsburgh vs what he turned into in the late 90s. Well look at the NFL players today vs guys just 30 or 40 years ago. Nick Buonicotti would be eaten alive today and he's a HoF MLB...ever see him in real life? He's short and just kinda medium sized. The avg OL back in those days was about 250-275 lbs. Somewhere in the last 25 years despite steroids not being used in the NFL(cough cough) players have managed to reach sizes out of control. You have 240 lb WRs, 275 lb QBs, 350 lb OL, 350 lb DTs, 250 lb LBs, 230 Lb Safeties....they are abnormally big and they take up too much space on the field. I would love to see weight limits per position and if you can't meet the numbers you can't play.Search your feelings young Skywalkers you know it to be true.What would the impact of this be? What dynamics would it change in the play calling and the types of plays that are run? Would it benefit one side of the ball over the other, if so how? Thanks
Very interesting question MOP, but I think it would have to go a little deeper than just a basic weight limit, I think you would need to take a players height into consideration, like there are centers that are 6ft to 6'3 and weigh in the 300's and then you have tackles and guards that are 6'5 or more weighing only slightly more. I think most teams prefer the center to be a little shorter, but he has to be just as big body wise as everyone else. Then you have some DT's that fall into a similar type situation, Casey Hampton for example, he is barely over 6FT and he must weigh 330 -350 regardless of what the team page leads you to believe. I think it would be better for the players health, but there would need to be a little more than just a weight limit, other factors in determining how much weight a player can carry. Unlikely this could ever happen in the NFL, but I think O lineman and DT's may benefit from something like this.
 
Personally, I think they should do it. They should also go back to leather helmets. This way, nobody would ever lead with their head. OK, that part is just crazy. However, you are correct. Linemen are treated like prize cows/hogs and are bulked up to levels that they just shouldn't be.

 
Whatever is best for playing on the field.

I think you are way off base on the normal weight of linemen. Weighing 235 at 6'5 isn't that much at all. I know people who are 6'1"-6'4" and they can push 300 lbs no problem. No rolls of fat, just big dudes with large bodies. NFL players are the elite of the elite big men. some of them may not naturally be near their playing weights, but most are not that far off.

If the NFL wanted to lower playing weight, they should enact on the field rules that would deter teams from seeking huge linemen.

 
1972 Dolphins defensive line

• LDE Vern Den Herder 6-6 250

• LDT Manny Fernandez 6-2 250

• RDT Bob Heinz 6-6 265

• RDT Jim Dunaway 6-4 277

• RDE Bill Stanfill 6-5 250

1972 Dolphins offensive line

• TE Marv Fleming 6-4 232

• LT Doug Crusan 6-5 250

• LG Bob Kuechenberg 6-2 253

• C Jim Langer 6-2 250

• RG Larry Little 6-1 265

• RT Norm Evans 6-5 250

 
Futeki said:
Whatever is best for playing on the field.I think you are way off base on the normal weight of linemen. Weighing 235 at 6'5 isn't that much at all. I know people who are 6'1"-6'4" and they can push 300 lbs no problem. No rolls of fat, just big dudes with large bodies. NFL players are the elite of the elite big men. some of them may not naturally be near their playing weights, but most are not that far off.If the NFL wanted to lower playing weight, they should enact on the field rules that would deter teams from seeking huge linemen.
Let me explain so I'm clear and we can have clarity. 300 lbs no matter what its made up of, muscle, fat, whatever, that weight is abnormal. Men are not supposed to be round. Life insurance companies know more about length of life than anyone and they have a premium insurance with the lowest rate but it is for men that are thin. 6 feet, 165-175 lbs, yes that seems thin but they know who is going to live the longest. Even a guy 6 foot 5 with alot of muscle, if he weighs 325 lbs that is not natural, it isn't. Life expectancy will be shorter and I'm saying we don't need guys to be that big to enjoy the game of football.
 
1972 Dolphins defensive line

• LDE Vern Den Herder 6-6 250

• LDT Manny Fernandez 6-2 250

• RDT Bob Heinz 6-6 265

• RDT Jim Dunaway 6-4 277

• RDE Bill Stanfill 6-5 250

1972 Dolphins offensive line

• TE Marv Fleming 6-4 232

• LT Doug Crusan 6-5 250

• LG Bob Kuechenberg 6-2 253

• C Jim Langer 6-2 250

• RG Larry Little 6-1 265

• RT Norm Evans 6-5 250
Right around 250 lbs...those guys wouldn't be hardly big enough to play LB let alone anything along the OL/DL. Thanks for looking that up DG, you da man!

 
Rather than ask if this is a good idea or not, most will likely be against it. I think a better idea is simply to discuss what the impact would be. I've seen guys like Brad Culpepper, former DT from the TB Bucs and now successful lawyer in the Bay area, he went from about 280-290 lbs down to I believe he clocks in at just about 200 give or take a few pounds now. He knew he could not live a long life if he continued to stay at that weight. Look at all the ex NFL football players and how big they balloon up to at times. Some stay healthy but many end up living far shorter lives because of all the amount of weight they put on.

Don't kid yourself, sure there are guys who simply are just big like Flozell the Hotel, but many more are somewhat big guys maybe 6 foot 5 235 lbs if they didn't play football but the sport bulks them up to 330 lbs. It's not natural.

We demonize Barry Bonds in Baseball because of photos of what he looked like when he was in Pittsburgh vs what he turned into in the late 90s. Well look at the NFL players today vs guys just 30 or 40 years ago. Nick Buonicotti would be eaten alive today and he's a HoF MLB...ever see him in real life? He's short and just kinda medium sized. The avg OL back in those days was about 250-275 lbs. Somewhere in the last 25 years despite steroids not being used in the NFL(cough cough) players have managed to reach sizes out of control. You have 240 lb WRs, 275 lb QBs, 350 lb OL, 350 lb DTs, 250 lb LBs, 230 Lb Safeties....they are abnormally big and they take up too much space on the field. I would love to see weight limits per position and if you can't meet the numbers you can't play.

Search your feelings young Skywalkers you know it to be true.

What would the impact of this be? What dynamics would it change in the play calling and the types of plays that are run? Would it benefit one side of the ball over the other, if so how?

Thanks
Having been a high-school wrestler, I can tell you that weight restrictions would lead to a lot of bad diet decisions and abuse of diruetics/laxatives prior to official weigh in.Part of gaming the weight system was to build up your muscle mass as much as possible between meets, and then to dump water weight/material in your intestines to just barely make weight in your class.

Weight restrictions would be very hard to enforce and a big pain in the tuckus, at the minimum.

My :blackdot: .

 
1972 Dolphins defensive line

• LDE Vern Den Herder 6-6 250

• LDT Manny Fernandez 6-2 250

• RDT Bob Heinz 6-6 265

• RDT Jim Dunaway 6-4 277

• RDE Bill Stanfill 6-5 250

1972 Dolphins offensive line

• TE Marv Fleming 6-4 232

• LT Doug Crusan 6-5 250

• LG Bob Kuechenberg 6-2 253

• C Jim Langer 6-2 250

• RG Larry Little 6-1 265

• RT Norm Evans 6-5 250
Right around 250 lbs...those guys wouldn't be hardly big enough to play LB let alone anything along the OL/DL. Thanks for looking that up DG, you da man!
Nutrition and exercise have come a long way. There may be other factors at play, but don't discount it.
 
Rather than ask if this is a good idea or not, most will likely be against it. I think a better idea is simply to discuss what the impact would be. I've seen guys like Brad Culpepper, former DT from the TB Bucs and now successful lawyer in the Bay area, he went from about 280-290 lbs down to I believe he clocks in at just about 200 give or take a few pounds now. He knew he could not live a long life if he continued to stay at that weight. Look at all the ex NFL football players and how big they balloon up to at times. Some stay healthy but many end up living far shorter lives because of all the amount of weight they put on.

Don't kid yourself, sure there are guys who simply are just big like Flozell the Hotel, but many more are somewhat big guys maybe 6 foot 5 235 lbs if they didn't play football but the sport bulks them up to 330 lbs. It's not natural.

We demonize Barry Bonds in Baseball because of photos of what he looked like when he was in Pittsburgh vs what he turned into in the late 90s. Well look at the NFL players today vs guys just 30 or 40 years ago. Nick Buonicotti would be eaten alive today and he's a HoF MLB...ever see him in real life? He's short and just kinda medium sized. The avg OL back in those days was about 250-275 lbs. Somewhere in the last 25 years despite steroids not being used in the NFL(cough cough) players have managed to reach sizes out of control. You have 240 lb WRs, 275 lb QBs, 350 lb OL, 350 lb DTs, 250 lb LBs, 230 Lb Safeties....they are abnormally big and they take up too much space on the field. I would love to see weight limits per position and if you can't meet the numbers you can't play.

Search your feelings young Skywalkers you know it to be true.

What would the impact of this be? What dynamics would it change in the play calling and the types of plays that are run? Would it benefit one side of the ball over the other, if so how?

Thanks
Having been a high-school wrestler, I can tell you that weight restrictions would lead to a lot of bad diet decisions and abuse of diruetics/laxatives prior to official weigh in.Part of gaming the weight system was to build up your muscle mass as much as possible between meets, and then to dump water weight/material in your intestines to just barely make weight in your class.

Weight restrictions would be very hard to enforce and a big pain in the tuckus, at the minimum.

My :lmao: .
Hi Mark,I'm not suggesting guys spit in a cup all day to make weight, in fact I'm not saying exactly what the weight is. But as DG posted, the avg weight of players in the 1970s for the Miami Dolphins when they went undefeated was about 250 lbs along the line with a few exceptions.

Do we really believe that evolution just exploded in the past 25 years and all these guys are 350 lbs by pure accident? It started when players were doing big time steroids to gain an advantage in the late 70s/early 80s and then it peaked with guys like Tony Manadarich. Then guys tried to get that big without steroids I guess.

Guys that are big, 6 foot 5, 250 lbs, that's normal, guys walking around at 350 lbs have no business running up and down the field. What I'm saying Mark is that guys wouldn't have to make weight because they would know form the college age and on down that they aren't going to play if they get too big. Guys weren't pumping tons of weight back in the 40s, 50s, even 60s...all these players are products of the gym.

Gyms are a man made invention and if people would just learn that a simple run, bike ride, and some push ups are really the optimal way for people to exercise. You would be amazed how fit one can get by doing the basics. I understand this generation won't see it that way but there was a time when weight lifting was a far less acceptable form of routine exercise. Gym rats can scream and rail about this but how many guys over 40 are throwing weights around? I have a friend who is about 45 years old, tremendous shape but he tells me he simply cannot bench press like he used to. Again, there are exceptions to everything, but weight lifting is not something the larger portion of men do routinely in this country especially after about the age of 40. But you can run, bike, hike, swim, and do push ups and sit ups long into your golden years.

Something to think about it.

 
I guess I'l be the one to tell it like it is...

Who cares? Let them weigh 500 pounds, let them take steroids, let them play through injuries that should keep them off the field... as a fan, I just want to be entertained by football being played at the highest level possible. To hell with the consequences to the players; they're getting paid millions of dollars, and no one is forcing them to do it anyway.

The cold, hard truth.

 
Adebisi said:
I guess I'l be the one to tell it like it is...Who cares? Let them weigh 500 pounds, let them take steroids, let them play through injuries that should keep them off the field... as a fan, I just want to be entertained by football being played at the highest level possible. To hell with the consequences to the players; they're getting paid millions of dollars, and no one is forcing them to do it anyway.The cold, hard truth.
thats just ignorant lol
 
Rather than ask if this is a good idea or not, most will likely be against it. I think a better idea is simply to discuss what the impact would be. I've seen guys like Brad Culpepper, former DT from the TB Bucs and now successful lawyer in the Bay area, he went from about 280-290 lbs down to I believe he clocks in at just about 200 give or take a few pounds now. He knew he could not live a long life if he continued to stay at that weight. Look at all the ex NFL football players and how big they balloon up to at times. Some stay healthy but many end up living far shorter lives because of all the amount of weight they put on. Don't kid yourself, sure there are guys who simply are just big like Flozell the Hotel, but many more are somewhat big guys maybe 6 foot 5 235 lbs if they didn't play football but the sport bulks them up to 330 lbs. It's not natural. We demonize Barry Bonds in Baseball because of photos of what he looked like when he was in Pittsburgh vs what he turned into in the late 90s. Well look at the NFL players today vs guys just 30 or 40 years ago. Nick Buonicotti would be eaten alive today and he's a HoF MLB...ever see him in real life? He's short and just kinda medium sized. The avg OL back in those days was about 250-275 lbs. Somewhere in the last 25 years despite steroids not being used in the NFL(cough cough) players have managed to reach sizes out of control. You have 240 lb WRs, 275 lb QBs, 350 lb OL, 350 lb DTs, 250 lb LBs, 230 Lb Safeties....they are abnormally big and they take up too much space on the field. I would love to see weight limits per position and if you can't meet the numbers you can't play.Search your feelings young Skywalkers you know it to be true.What would the impact of this be? What dynamics would it change in the play calling and the types of plays that are run? Would it benefit one side of the ball over the other, if so how? Thanks
Mark Schlereth (sp?) is a great example of this. Compare an old picture of him during his playing days with the Broncos to now that he's on ESPN, doesn't even look like the same guy.
 
Mark Schlereth (sp?) is a great example of this. Compare an old picture of him during his playing days with the Broncos to now that he's on ESPN, doesn't even look like the same guy.
Exactly, he obviously understood he wasn't going to live a long healthy life at 300 lbs. Edited to add: Mark May as well.
 
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Here is an interesting article from the Palm Beach Post written 3 or 4 years ago...

Since the 1980s, NFL players have packed on the pounds, but is the league's emphasis on weight harmful?

By Carlos Frias, William M. Hartnett

Palm Beach Post Staff Writers

Sunday, October 29, 2006

Brad Culpepper got benched.

He was playing pretty well. He wasn't injured and he hadn't broken any of the Chicago Bears' team rules.

Except one.

He didn't weigh enough.

"The coaches would look at you and how much you weighed to see if you were going to play," said Culpepper, the former Florida Gator who played defensive line for the Bears and Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

Culpepper thrived in a Tampa Bay defense that stressed speed and strength, but then he went to Chicago, where the Bears were slaves to the scale. Like many NFL teams, Chicago had a minimum and maximum weight for each position.

One Friday morning — weigh-in day — during the 2000 season, Culpepper barely hit 265 pounds, and coaches determined he was too light to line up Sunday for a Bears team that would finish 5-11.

"Things like weighing in on a Friday were illogical to me," Culpepper said, "and it didn't make me a better football player.

"What did I do about it? I retired the next year. I'd had enough."

Culpepper was a victim of the numbers game. BIG numbers.

In the modern-day NFL, size does matter — at least if you want to keep earning a paycheck.

By compiling a database of NFL rosters dating to 1920 — nearly 40,000 players — The Post tracked the size of players decade-by-decade and team-by-team.

From 1920 to 1984, there were never more than eight players in any season who weighed 300 pounds or more. This year, there were 570 players who weighed 300 or more listed on 2006 NFL training camp rosters, nearly 20 percent of all players.

Other super-sized findings:

Z Since the NFL-AFL merger in 1970, the average player is nearly 25 pounds heavier, averaging 245.

Z Over the same period, the average offensive lineman is 62 pounds heavier; defensive lineman, 34 pounds.

Z Running backs weigh 17 pounds more and quarterbacks are 26 pounds heavier.

Coaches, players, analysts and doctors say there are many reasons for the increases in size: the natural progression by generations; better nutrition; supplements; illegal substances, including steroids, which the league began testing for in 1987, and untested drugs like human growth hormone; workout regiments that now begin in high school.

But what has maintained the trend toward bigger and bigger players is the league's copycat tendencies — what works well for one team will soon be tried by many others.

NFL is league of copycats

Mark Schlereth experienced a range of poundage in his 12-year NFL career. He was a member of "The Hogs'' offensive line for the Washington Redskins and also played in a Denver Broncos system that demanded leaner, quicker blockers.

Schlereth, now an analyst for ESPN, gives three reasons why NFL teams started pumping and plumping their offensive linemen through the '80s and '90s.

Larry Allen. Nate Newton. Joe Jacoby.

Between them, they played in 22 Pro Bowls and packed on more than 1,000 pounds as 300-plus players.

"Whatever is in vogue, that's what the league goes for," Schlereth said. "The league saw these incredible athletes, who were huge men, and decided this is the way to go — bigger is better."

That mantra trickled down to the college and high school level, where massive linemen no longer were born but bloated up on extra cheeseburgers and shakes.

Aspiring prep tight ends, defensive ends and linebackers "ate their way to being offensive linemen,'' Schlereth said.

In 1980, offensive linemen outweighed their teammates by 45 pounds. In 2006, the difference is about the weight of one Olsen twin — 81 pounds.

Schlereth fought to keep up. In Denver, he was issued a minimum weight of 285 pounds and fined $100 for each pound short on weigh-in day.

Sometimes, just before stepping on the scale, he would guzzle a gallon of water or slip a small weight plate into his jockstrap. Players who needed to shed pounds also took extreme measures, like pulling on rubber suits to run in the heat.

"To me, it's all relatively stupid and ridiculous," said Schlereth, who now weighs 205 pounds, less than he did in high school. "On one hand, the NFL says it doesn't want things like ephedra (a banned supplement used for weight loss), but it's OK to have a guy in a rubber suit running and passing out trying to make weight."

Culpepper had to stuff himself to push 280, eating between meals and making late-night runs to McDonald's and Wendy's.

"You know how you feel after Thanksgiving dinner? I felt like that every day," said Culpepper, now a personal injury attorney in Tampa who also has slimmed down to about 205.

Eight months after retiring, Culpepper shed his football fat suit, weighing in at 195 pounds and running his first marathon in 3 hours, 50 minutes. His waist size dropped from 40 inches to 33.

More weight does not guarantee wins

NFL offensive linemen started to get bigger than their defensive counterparts in 1975, the first year the O-lines outweighed the D-lines.

This season, the average weight for an offensive lineman is 312 — 23 pounds heavier than the average defensive lineman.

The push for poundage led to earth-shaking moments for gargantuan players. In 1999, the Detroit Lions made Wisconsin offensive tackle Aaron Gibson, who at one time weighed 440 pounds, the 27th overall pick in the draft. Gibson mostly played in the upper 300s, but in 2002 he became the league's first 400-pounder at 410 with the Dallas Cowboys.

That same year, Buffalo selected 370-pound OT Mike Williams fourth overall.

Both are now out of football.

"Truth is, bigger isn't better. Better is better," Schlereth said.

Research supports Schlereth's claim.

Since 1980, the two teams with the highest winning percentages — the San Francisco 49ers and Denver — had the lightest offensive lines.

Of the five teams with the biggest offensive lines over the past 25 years, only one franchise — the Raiders — has won more games than it has lost.

When Indianapolis Colts President Bill Polian kept hearing coaches talk about the importance of size, he decided to put the theory to a test, comparing winning percentages to the average weight of players on each team over about 10 seasons.

"We found higher weight had no bearing on winning — none," said Polian, who was the general manager in Buffalo when the Bills played in four Super Bowls. "There was a lot of noise about 'Big is the answer.' We tested it. It's not valid."

The offensive linemen who played for the perfect 1972 Dolphins, including two Hall of Famers, averaged 251 pounds, 13th of 26 teams. Size apparently means little this season, too. The Dolphins average 321 on their interior line, the fourth highest in the league, but they're 1-6.

Polian now is with a team that might spur a reverse copycat trend. The Super Bowl contender Colts average 302 pounds of protection for Peyton Manning — 30th in the league.

Still, it's hard to resist the big guys.

After April's draft, Dolphins coach Nick Saban said he wished he could have worked a trade to move up and pick Haloti Ngata, a 6-4, 340-pound defensive tackle selected 12th overall by the Baltimore Ravens.

"I always say it this way: They have weight classes in boxing for a reason. The heavyweights don't fight the lightweights," Saban said. "What's the reason for that? Because if a big guy is just as good as a little guy, the little guy doesn't have much of a chance."

Dolphins linebacker Zach Thomas has done pretty well for a little guy. The six-time Pro Bowler is in his 11th season and he doesn't like it when comments about his success end with "for a guy his size.''

Thomas is listed at 228, but said he plays closer to 220 and "sometimes lighter.''

He remembers his second year with the Dolphins, when several trainers suggested he get bigger so his body could hold up.

"I tried to put on weight and I was sluggish," Thomas said. "Now I don't even worry about that because I know it doesn't matter."

Football becomes a 12-month job

NFL teams started encouraging players to train year-round in the 1970s.

Former Dolphins coach Don Shula, who was an NFL defensive back in the '50s, said he and his teammates did little more than play some pickup basketball and run in the off-season. Hall of Famer Art Donovan, one of Shula's teammates on the Baltimore Colts, was huge for his day at 270 but not exactly a specimen. The Colts called him "Fatso.''

Shula's Dolphins and Tom Landry's Cowboys were among the first to start mandatory off-season workout sessions five days a week, three hours a day. Soon, the copycat syndrome took over in the rest of the league, especially after the Dolphins and Cowboys played in a combined seven Super Bowls.

"That's where players really started to take off as far as size goes," Shula said. "The other teams saw the progress that you were making, then everybody started to do it so that they wouldn't be left behind."

Shula believes the push for size also led to a change in overall strategy. Bigger players on defense meant tougher yards on the ground, so more teams added advanced passing games to their offenses.

"You had to find new and better ways to do things," Shula said. "You couldn't do the old stuff that perhaps was successful for you, the ground game that didn't involve the drop-back passing."

Steroids also became a factor in the late '70s and early '80s.

Shula said steroids were "probably a part" of the boom in size, especially since testing did not begin until 1987.

"Without a doubt that happened, people looking for a magic pill to get as big and strong as they could be," Shula said.

Supplements and untested drugs like HGH are likely factors in continued growth. But ESPN's Chris Mortensen, who has been covering the NFL since the '80s, said the steroid ban has changed the frames of some of the players whose careers require packing on and maintaining the pounds.

"The bodies are different," Mortensen said. "They're not Popeye bodies. They're obese bodies."

 
Whatever is best for playing on the field.I think you are way off base on the normal weight of linemen. Weighing 235 at 6'5 isn't that much at all. I know people who are 6'1"-6'4" and they can push 300 lbs no problem. No rolls of fat, just big dudes with large bodies. NFL players are the elite of the elite big men. some of them may not naturally be near their playing weights, but most are not that far off.If the NFL wanted to lower playing weight, they should enact on the field rules that would deter teams from seeking huge linemen.
Let me explain so I'm clear and we can have clarity. 300 lbs no matter what its made up of, muscle, fat, whatever, that weight is abnormal. Men are not supposed to be round. Life insurance companies know more about length of life than anyone and they have a premium insurance with the lowest rate but it is for men that are thin. 6 feet, 165-175 lbs, yes that seems thin but they know who is going to live the longest. Even a guy 6 foot 5 with alot of muscle, if he weighs 325 lbs that is not natural, it isn't. Life expectancy will be shorter and I'm saying we don't need guys to be that big to enjoy the game of football.
Good point. There's a reason you don't see overweight people in their 80's, and rarely in their 70's. Their tickers just can't keep up the pace.But I don't think the NFL could make any changes, not until they can align healthy BMI with performance. And I don't know how they can do that when it comes to linemen, where body mass benefits them in the physics part of the game. (No matter how you slice it, it's harder to effect 320 lbs of mass as opposed to 250) Maybe they can do so via rule changes that encourage speed over bulk, but it would take a while.But yeah, I'd like to see players' long term health become a higher priority than it has. (As I posted in the concussion thread too.)
 
the point about guys 300+ no matter the height is just a sad fact of life if you are 6'8 and around 310 well you aren't going to live as long as the 5'8 150 pounder. it is just simple facts and there is not alot that can be done about that.

as for the NFL linemen and steroids and the extra weight yep it is a problem, but more often than not they are the naturally big guys who would come out around 6'3 280. pushing those guys to 310 or so will hurt their end time but it is not entirely out of the ordinary. then you have the guys who are freaks who play monstrous with no steroids, the steroid users and a lesser amount of normal type linemen trying to catch those groups.

toss in the fact that if there was no NFL alot of the olinemen would just be fat guys even if they only played TE in HS, or BCS ball.

yes the extra weight hurts many that would not have packed on the pounds if it were not for their careers as linemen. though they are making that trade off to play for 3-7 years and have a retirement to rest their head on for the next 20 years.

also fun fact if you look at the average cup size of the american woman back in the 70's it was a B cup now it is a C cup. this is due to the culmination of hormones prevalent in milk and meat, weight gain, and a very small % of that increase coming from breast implants. yes our culture and our desire for certain physical attributes sculpt our bodies, our futures, and our careers.

what to do about these social pressures? not sure. though a good place to start would be to figure out how to shrink the boobs on a national scale. then write down you ideas for football and let me know of your plan about the boobs so i can pummel and stop you.

 
Rather than ask if this is a good idea or not, most will likely be against it. I think a better idea is simply to discuss what the impact would be. I've seen guys like Brad Culpepper, former DT from the TB Bucs and now successful lawyer in the Bay area, he went from about 280-290 lbs down to I believe he clocks in at just about 200 give or take a few pounds now. He knew he could not live a long life if he continued to stay at that weight. Look at all the ex NFL football players and how big they balloon up to at times. Some stay healthy but many end up living far shorter lives because of all the amount of weight they put on.

Don't kid yourself, sure there are guys who simply are just big like Flozell the Hotel, but many more are somewhat big guys maybe 6 foot 5 235 lbs if they didn't play football but the sport bulks them up to 330 lbs. It's not natural.

We demonize Barry Bonds in Baseball because of photos of what he looked like when he was in Pittsburgh vs what he turned into in the late 90s. Well look at the NFL players today vs guys just 30 or 40 years ago. Nick Buonicotti would be eaten alive today and he's a HoF MLB...ever see him in real life? He's short and just kinda medium sized. The avg OL back in those days was about 250-275 lbs. Somewhere in the last 25 years despite steroids not being used in the NFL(cough cough) players have managed to reach sizes out of control. You have 240 lb WRs, 275 lb QBs, 350 lb OL, 350 lb DTs, 250 lb LBs, 230 Lb Safeties....they are abnormally big and they take up too much space on the field. I would love to see weight limits per position and if you can't meet the numbers you can't play.

Search your feelings young Skywalkers you know it to be true.

What would the impact of this be? What dynamics would it change in the play calling and the types of plays that are run? Would it benefit one side of the ball over the other, if so how?

Thanks
Having been a high-school wrestler, I can tell you that weight restrictions would lead to a lot of bad diet decisions and abuse of diruetics/laxatives prior to official weigh in.Part of gaming the weight system was to build up your muscle mass as much as possible between meets, and then to dump water weight/material in your intestines to just barely make weight in your class.

Weight restrictions would be very hard to enforce and a big pain in the tuckus, at the minimum.

My :excited: .
:rolleyes: Having a few boxers in my family, one being professional... making weight is the hardest part of the job and they only have to do it for one night. I couldn't imagine a guy like Flozel Adams having to stay at a certain weight for months out of the year, it would be unnatural to do that. Some of the real big men in the NFL would be so unhealthy.. you'd see people start to sweat weight out, be dehydrated on game night.. it would be a disaster.
 
I guess health wise such a restriction wouldn't be that bad of a choice, but it's all by free will, they know what they are doing.

 
the point about guys 300+ no matter the height is just a sad fact of life if you are 6'8 and around 310 well you aren't going to live as long as the 5'8 150 pounder. it is just simple facts and there is not alot that can be done about that.

as for the NFL linemen and steroids and the extra weight yep it is a problem, but more often than not they are the naturally big guys who would come out around 6'3 280. pushing those guys to 310 or so will hurt their end time but it is not entirely out of the ordinary. then you have the guys who are freaks who play monstrous with no steroids, the steroid users and a lesser amount of normal type linemen trying to catch those groups.

toss in the fact that if there was no NFL alot of the olinemen would just be fat guys even if they only played TE in HS, or BCS ball.

yes the extra weight hurts many that would not have packed on the pounds if it were not for their careers as linemen. though they are making that trade off to play for 3-7 years and have a retirement to rest their head on for the next 20 years.

also fun fact if you look at the average cup size of the american woman back in the 70's it was a B cup now it is a C cup. this is due to the culmination of hormones prevalent in milk and meat, weight gain, and a very small % of that increase coming from breast implants. yes our culture and our desire for certain physical attributes sculpt our bodies, our futures, and our careers.

what to do about these social pressures? not sure. though a good place to start would be to figure out how to shrink the boobs on a national scale. then write down you ideas for football and let me know of your plan about the boobs so i can pummel and stop you.
1. I highlighted this because that is my sticking point...6 fot 3 and 280 is not natural. People do not get that big eating 2,000 calorie a day diets...even 3000 calories. Why do these people get a free pass to eat whatever they want? If you read the article I put in a few posts up, Brad Culpepper was going to McDonald's and Wendy's late at night so he could keep weight on, that's not muscle buddy. 2. Second thing I highlighted is a major problem. Hormones in our foods over the past 30-40 years is killing us. Again none of this seems like a natural process of mother nature.

 
yeah all of that which you highlighted goes back into the culture that has been cultivated and the unhealthy life style many americans lead.

the big guy would probably weigh in at around 250ish back in the 80's or so. YES i know that is STILL VERY unhealthy and even more unconducive to living till 93 years old but not everyone is meant to live to be that old that. the fat 250 pound guy can still lead a lifestyle almost exactly similiar to the scrawny guy and croak at 82 many would argue that living to be 93 years old is not natural either.

as for the boobs yeah the food has alot to do with things but the women have been breed (to use the term loosely) to have bigger boobs and the extra push from the meat market has helped that process along.

many people that are fat today would still be fat 15 years ago. the difference is how far past the usual limits people get to. yes more people get fat now it is a disappointing statistic but there are things being done to help that stat.

as for NFL players yeah many are jumping over the bar to stay in and be productive and it is a problem. what to do about it though? best thing anyone can do right now is try to get the teams to set up programs for guys to follow when they get out of the NFL to help shed the pounds.

yes the 3-7 years of obesity will cut down on their life but those guys will enjoy their lives better than most of us by the time they are around age 45. it is a trade off cut 5 years off the end to enjoy the rest of it 12 years earlier than most.

 
If you watch the movie Paper Lion Roger Brown was chided for being 280. Now he would be chided for being too skinny. The easiest solution for the weight issue is to make the linemen play two ways. Then the sizes would be reduced as the game would be more aerobic similar to Rugby. Also roiding is alive and well in the NFL. I just have to look at the various players and their weights and loss of weight after they retire.

 
If you watch the movie Paper Lion Roger Brown was chided for being 280. Now he would be chided for being too skinny. The easiest solution for the weight issue is to make the linemen play two ways. Then the sizes would be reduced as the game would be more aerobic similar to Rugby. Also roiding is alive and well in the NFL. I just have to look at the various players and their weights and loss of weight after they retire.
I agree about the steroids. Its not natural and just because they test for it doesn't mean players don't know how to get them into their system without detection.
 
I guess I'l be the one to tell it like it is...Who cares? Let them weigh 500 pounds, let them take steroids, let them play through injuries that should keep them off the field... as a fan, I just want to be entertained by football being played at the highest level possible. To hell with the consequences to the players; they're getting paid millions of dollars, and no one is forcing them to do it anyway.The cold, hard truth.
I completely agree with this. I know it will not be a popular opinion, but the reality of it is that they do not have to bulk up as much as they do, they can always choose another profession or play football for 5 years and then lose the weight after they have made WAY more than enough to retire on. I definitely think it is unhealthy for them to bulk up the way they do it and obviously the statistics prove that out, but it is not healthy for me to eat the doughnut that I ate this morning either, so does that mean they should shut down Dunkin Donuts? Of course not, I should just have enough common sense to know when it is no longer a healthy indulgence.I think putting weight limits would severely degrade the game as we know it today. Obviously after a few years of 250 lb lineman (as they were in the 70's) we would get used to it but those few years would be less than desirable. The game would change dramatically, depending on the extent of the weight limits, and I would expect it to change in a bad way. JMO though, interesting topic.
 
Whatever is best for playing on the field.I think you are way off base on the normal weight of linemen. Weighing 235 at 6'5 isn't that much at all. I know people who are 6'1"-6'4" and they can push 300 lbs no problem. No rolls of fat, just big dudes with large bodies. NFL players are the elite of the elite big men. some of them may not naturally be near their playing weights, but most are not that far off.If the NFL wanted to lower playing weight, they should enact on the field rules that would deter teams from seeking huge linemen.
:sadbanana: I'm 6'1 and 280, and I have no rolls. While many of the NFL's lineman are morbidly obese, most standard ways of measuring that don't seem to fit every person.
 
Another big point NOT being recognized is that Americans in general are 2 1/2" taller and 30-40 pounds heavier then the average Americans 40 years ago. It's not a dramatic genetic shift, but a combination of better health care and the obscene use of growth hormones in our foods (beef and chicken). If the normal American is 30 punds heavier, why are we so surprised that an NFL player is 40 poounds heavier...it's the same increase by body mass percentage!

This isn't an NFL problem....it's an American problem.

 
Rather than ask if this is a good idea or not, most will likely be against it. I think a better idea is simply to discuss what the impact would be. I've seen guys like Brad Culpepper, former DT from the TB Bucs and now successful lawyer in the Bay area, he went from about 280-290 lbs down to I believe he clocks in at just about 200 give or take a few pounds now. He knew he could not live a long life if he continued to stay at that weight. Look at all the ex NFL football players and how big they balloon up to at times. Some stay healthy but many end up living far shorter lives because of all the amount of weight they put on.

Don't kid yourself, sure there are guys who simply are just big like Flozell the Hotel, but many more are somewhat big guys maybe 6 foot 5 235 lbs if they didn't play football but the sport bulks them up to 330 lbs. It's not natural.

We demonize Barry Bonds in Baseball because of photos of what he looked like when he was in Pittsburgh vs what he turned into in the late 90s. Well look at the NFL players today vs guys just 30 or 40 years ago. Nick Buonicotti would be eaten alive today and he's a HoF MLB...ever see him in real life? He's short and just kinda medium sized. The avg OL back in those days was about 250-275 lbs. Somewhere in the last 25 years despite steroids not being used in the NFL(cough cough) players have managed to reach sizes out of control. You have 240 lb WRs, 275 lb QBs, 350 lb OL, 350 lb DTs, 250 lb LBs, 230 Lb Safeties....they are abnormally big and they take up too much space on the field. I would love to see weight limits per position and if you can't meet the numbers you can't play.

Search your feelings young Skywalkers you know it to be true.

What would the impact of this be? What dynamics would it change in the play calling and the types of plays that are run? Would it benefit one side of the ball over the other, if so how?

Thanks
Having been a high-school wrestler, I can tell you that weight restrictions would lead to a lot of bad diet decisions and abuse of diruetics/laxatives prior to official weigh in.Part of gaming the weight system was to build up your muscle mass as much as possible between meets, and then to dump water weight/material in your intestines to just barely make weight in your class.

Weight restrictions would be very hard to enforce and a big pain in the tuckus, at the minimum.

My :shrug: .
Hi Mark,I'm not suggesting guys spit in a cup all day to make weight, in fact I'm not saying exactly what the weight is. But as DG posted, the avg weight of players in the 1970s for the Miami Dolphins when they went undefeated was about 250 lbs along the line with a few exceptions.

Do we really believe that evolution just exploded in the past 25 years and all these guys are 350 lbs by pure accident? It started when players were doing big time steroids to gain an advantage in the late 70s/early 80s and then it peaked with guys like Tony Manadarich. Then guys tried to get that big without steroids I guess.

Guys that are big, 6 foot 5, 250 lbs, that's normal, guys walking around at 350 lbs have no business running up and down the field. What I'm saying Mark is that guys wouldn't have to make weight because they would know form the college age and on down that they aren't going to play if they get too big. Guys weren't pumping tons of weight back in the 40s, 50s, even 60s...all these players are products of the gym.

Gyms are a man made invention and if people would just learn that a simple run, bike ride, and some push ups are really the optimal way for people to exercise. You would be amazed how fit one can get by doing the basics. I understand this generation won't see it that way but there was a time when weight lifting was a far less acceptable form of routine exercise. Gym rats can scream and rail about this but how many guys over 40 are throwing weights around? I have a friend who is about 45 years old, tremendous shape but he tells me he simply cannot bench press like he used to. Again, there are exceptions to everything, but weight lifting is not something the larger portion of men do routinely in this country especially after about the age of 40. But you can run, bike, hike, swim, and do push ups and sit ups long into your golden years.

Something to think about it.
I have no problem with the notion that excessive weight lifting/increased mass has negative impacts on the body. The over-development of explosive muscular power causes deficits in flexibility if the training regimen isn't properly structured, for example (being 'muscle-bound'). I think a lot of the knee injuries (and also elbow injuries in QB's a la Jake Delhomme) that we see in the NFL are due to developing musculature beyond the point at which the body's tendons can function properly - simply put, too much muscular power causes the tendons/ligaments to be stressed beyond their breaking point (this is often a process of repetitive stress that gradually rips/tears the tendons away from the bone, although certain instances of catastrophic flexing of a joint in the wrong direction will 'blow out' a knee or elbow immediately).

However, imposing a weight limit will necessarily lead to a routine of weigh-ins and the related detrimental-to-health behaviors I outlined in order for players to 'make weight'. If the weight limit by position were to become an official rule, then people will engage in methods to circumvent it and thereby gain a short-term advantage in overall mass if possible.

What needs to happen in the NFL training circles, in my opinion, is to develop a training regimen that keeps players as flexible as possible as well as explosive and strong as possible.

But whatever path a player goes down regarding weight/muscular development/flexibility training, catastrophic injuries are sure to occur at any weight level in the NFL. Sometimes, cleats get stuck in the turf and a person's knee/ankle flexes in a direction that the joint simply shouldn't go, thanks to the impact of an opposing player(s).

There is no way to avoid some instances of injury in the NFL, regardless of training regimen/diet/weight, in my opinion.

 
I guess I'l be the one to tell it like it is...

Who cares? Let them weigh 500 pounds, let them take steroids, let them play through injuries that should keep them off the field... as a fan, I just want to be entertained by football being played at the highest level possible. To hell with the consequences to the players; they're getting paid millions of dollars, and no one is forcing them to do it anyway.

The cold, hard truth.
I completely agree with this. I know it will not be a popular opinion, but the reality of it is that they do not have to bulk up as much as they do, they can always choose another profession or play football for 5 years and then lose the weight after they have made WAY more than enough to retire on. I definitely think it is unhealthy for them to bulk up the way they do it and obviously the statistics prove that out, but it is not healthy for me to eat the doughnut that I ate this morning either, so does that mean they should shut down Dunkin Donuts? Of course not, I should just have enough common sense to know when it is no longer a healthy indulgence.I think putting weight limits would severely degrade the game as we know it today. Obviously after a few years of 250 lb lineman (as they were in the 70's) we would get used to it but those few years would be less than desirable. The game would change dramatically, depending on the extent of the weight limits, and I would expect it to change in a bad way. JMO though, interesting topic.
Why do you think having smaller linemen across the board would have a detrimental effect on the game?
 
I guess I'l be the one to tell it like it is...

Who cares? Let them weigh 500 pounds, let them take steroids, let them play through injuries that should keep them off the field... as a fan, I just want to be entertained by football being played at the highest level possible. To hell with the consequences to the players; they're getting paid millions of dollars, and no one is forcing them to do it anyway.

The cold, hard truth.
I completely agree with this. I know it will not be a popular opinion, but the reality of it is that they do not have to bulk up as much as they do, they can always choose another profession or play football for 5 years and then lose the weight after they have made WAY more than enough to retire on. I definitely think it is unhealthy for them to bulk up the way they do it and obviously the statistics prove that out, but it is not healthy for me to eat the doughnut that I ate this morning either, so does that mean they should shut down Dunkin Donuts? Of course not, I should just have enough common sense to know when it is no longer a healthy indulgence.I think putting weight limits would severely degrade the game as we know it today. Obviously after a few years of 250 lb lineman (as they were in the 70's) we would get used to it but those few years would be less than desirable. The game would change dramatically, depending on the extent of the weight limits, and I would expect it to change in a bad way. JMO though, interesting topic.
Why do you think having smaller linemen across the board would have a detrimental effect on the game?
The way that I would envision it makes me believe that things would change in a way that would make the game more like Arena football or like 8 man football in High School. I would expect there to be far more gaps to run through due to the lack of the bulky run stoppers and we would see a lot more games of 45-40 etc...I think that "controlling the line of scrimmage" would be drastically different than it is now due to the change in size of the players. I really could not envision a team that would just control the ball in the same way that it is now. I think because of those changes we would see a lot more teams that would run the spread offense that probably more closely resembles to that which is run a great deal by college teams (Texas Tech, Florida, etc..) which would spread things even more open.Again, this is just the way I envision things. It is hypothetical of course, and I could be way off base but that is how I believe it would play out. If you are the type of person that just likes to watch scoring, this would probably be a good change. To me this would definitely be negative for the game of football if the way that I envision it would come to fruition.

 
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I guess I'l be the one to tell it like it is...

Who cares? Let them weigh 500 pounds, let them take steroids, let them play through injuries that should keep them off the field... as a fan, I just want to be entertained by football being played at the highest level possible. To hell with the consequences to the players; they're getting paid millions of dollars, and no one is forcing them to do it anyway.

The cold, hard truth.
I completely agree with this. I know it will not be a popular opinion, but the reality of it is that they do not have to bulk up as much as they do, they can always choose another profession or play football for 5 years and then lose the weight after they have made WAY more than enough to retire on. I definitely think it is unhealthy for them to bulk up the way they do it and obviously the statistics prove that out, but it is not healthy for me to eat the doughnut that I ate this morning either, so does that mean they should shut down Dunkin Donuts? Of course not, I should just have enough common sense to know when it is no longer a healthy indulgence.I think putting weight limits would severely degrade the game as we know it today. Obviously after a few years of 250 lb lineman (as they were in the 70's) we would get used to it but those few years would be less than desirable. The game would change dramatically, depending on the extent of the weight limits, and I would expect it to change in a bad way. JMO though, interesting topic.
Why do you think having smaller linemen across the board would have a detrimental effect on the game?
The way that I would envision it makes me believe that things would change in a way that would make the game more like Arena football or like 8 man football in High School. I would expect there to be far more gaps to run through due to the lack of the bulky run stoppers and we would see a lot more games of 45-40 etc...I think that "controlling the line of scrimmage" would be drastically different than it is now due to the change in size of the players. I really could not envision a team that would just control the ball in the same way that it is now. I think because of those changes we would see a lot more teams that would run the spread offense that probably more closely resembles to that which is run a great deal by college teams (Texas Tech, Florida, etc..) which would spread things even more open.Again, this is just the way I envision things. It is hypothetical of course, and I could be way off base but that is how I believe it would play out. If you are the type of person that just likes to watch scoring, this would probably be a good change. To me this would definitely be negative for the game of football if the way that I envision it would come to fruition.
That's interesting because I see the opposite. Teams have to pass because they can't run the GD football because guys 375 lbs are filling up the middle of the field on both sides fo the ball. You have guys playing 250-275 on both sides fo the lines, and guys going back to weighing 180-200 lbs running, catching, and throwing the football, my guess is you would see a lot more good old fashioned football with a lot more runnng and less passing. They throw because they can toss it over these big lugs but the truth is most Head Coaches would rather run the football, less room for errors. When you throw, you have to set up a protection wall, hope the WR runs the correct route, hope the WR or someone can gain separation, then you hope the QB can hold up against the pass rush, then he has to throw it on time and exactly on the mark, whereas runnign the football is simply blocking, turn and hand off.

Look, I grew up watching Dan Marino every week, I love the passing game but its gotten out of control and now they have put in all these penalties to protect the QB, how ridiculous is that? Just get him a plexiglass case or shield that he can throw around, in fact we can just get rid of DEs and OTs and just have the QB stand back there and throw the ball to WRs all day. Imagine 8 on 8 as you said and we have 2 DL, 2 OL, and everyone else running patterns, that's really what the NFL is going to look like soon.

 
That's interesting because I see the opposite. Teams have to pass because they can't run the GD football because guys 375 lbs are filling up the middle of the field on both sides fo the ball. You have guys playing 250-275 on both sides fo the lines, and guys going back to weighing 180-200 lbs running, catching, and throwing the football, my guess is you would see a lot more good old fashioned football with a lot more runnng and less passing. They throw because they can toss it over these big lugs but the truth is most Head Coaches would rather run the football, less room for errors. When you throw, you have to set up a protection wall, hope the WR runs the correct route, hope the WR or someone can gain separation, then you hope the QB can hold up against the pass rush, then he has to throw it on time and exactly on the mark, whereas runnign the football is simply blocking, turn and hand off. Look, I grew up watching Dan Marino every week, I love the passing game but its gotten out of control and now they have put in all these penalties to protect the QB, how ridiculous is that? Just get him a plexiglass case or shield that he can throw around, in fact we can just get rid of DEs and OTs and just have the QB stand back there and throw the ball to WRs all day. Imagine 8 on 8 as you said and we have 2 DL, 2 OL, and everyone else running patterns, that's really what the NFL is going to look like soon.
I think we are seeing this in similar ways actually, just with different outcomes. I actually agree with you that with much smaller lineman that we would be likely to see more running. I actually believe that we would see a lot more HUGE running plays which is why I believe the scoring would be even more out of control. Have you ever watched a competitive 8 man football game (meaning that it was more than just people playing off the street)? They run the football a lot, and score a ton of points (some states have a 45 point rule such that if you are ahead by 45 at half time they call the game). This is how I envision it being in the pros with smaller lineman. I think a guy like Peyton Manning (or Marino) would become less important to a team because of it and possibly guys like Pat White, Vick or Tebow this year who run the ball out of that spread would become the more important QB's. I do not see this sort of running game that it would create as a control running game, but a running game based on big plays.Obviously I may be totally incorrect in how I envision this playing out if it were to happen. But if I am right, I definitely would prefer to keep things as they are.
 
renesauz said:
Another big point NOT being recognized is that Americans in general are 2 1/2" taller and 30-40 pounds heavier then the average Americans 40 years ago. It's not a dramatic genetic shift, but a combination of better health care and the obscene use of growth hormones in our foods (beef and chicken). If the normal American is 30 punds heavier, why are we so surprised that an NFL player is 40 poounds heavier...it's the same increase by body mass percentage!
I completely agree here.Most sports have seen players get bigger. Look at basketball now vs. the 60s. Even hockey players and baseball players are bigger (some would say artificially, but that's another story).
This isn't an NFL problem....it's an American problem.
I don't think it is about obesity as much as players are now training 24/7/365, or close to it. Pro athletes are pro athletes every day of the week. Former NFL players back before the SB era, just like baseball players in the 1950s, lived right along side of their fans and some even went to work with them during the offseason. Sports are now specialized, just like team lineups.
 
renesauz said:
Another big point NOT being recognized is that Americans in general are 2 1/2" taller and 30-40 pounds heavier then the average Americans 40 years ago. It's not a dramatic genetic shift, but a combination of better health care and the obscene use of growth hormones in our foods (beef and chicken). If the normal American is 30 punds heavier, why are we so surprised that an NFL player is 40 poounds heavier...it's the same increase by body mass percentage!
I completely agree here.Most sports have seen players get bigger. Look at basketball now vs. the 60s. Even hockey players and baseball players are bigger (some would say artificially, but that's another story).
This isn't an NFL problem....it's an American problem.
I don't think it is about obesity as much as players are now training 24/7/365, or close to it. Pro athletes are pro athletes every day of the week. Former NFL players back before the SB era, just like baseball players in the 1950s, lived right along side of their fans and some even went to work with them during the offseason. Sports are now specialized, just like team lineups.
Runners, Cyclists, Swimmers, Speed Skaters, not everyone is packing on weight left and right. Hogwash on all this bigger human stuff too. I don't care if people are getting taller or not, human organs are a product of millions of years of evolution...kind of a big leap to think we closed the gap in 25 years, but what the heck do I know? I'm glad you all posted in here, and I think its a topic you will hear more of at some point.
 
I guess I'l be the one to tell it like it is...Who cares? Let them weigh 500 pounds, let them take steroids, let them play through injuries that should keep them off the field... as a fan, I just want to be entertained by football being played at the highest level possible. To hell with the consequences to the players; they're getting paid millions of dollars, and no one is forcing them to do it anyway.The cold, hard truth.
Agreed.
 
renesauz said:
Another big point NOT being recognized is that Americans in general are 2 1/2" taller and 30-40 pounds heavier then the average Americans 40 years ago. It's not a dramatic genetic shift, but a combination of better health care and the obscene use of growth hormones in our foods (beef and chicken). If the normal American is 30 punds heavier, why are we so surprised that an NFL player is 40 poounds heavier...it's the same increase by body mass percentage!
I completely agree here.Most sports have seen players get bigger. Look at basketball now vs. the 60s. Even hockey players and baseball players are bigger (some would say artificially, but that's another story).
This isn't an NFL problem....it's an American problem.
I don't think it is about obesity as much as players are now training 24/7/365, or close to it. Pro athletes are pro athletes every day of the week. Former NFL players back before the SB era, just like baseball players in the 1950s, lived right along side of their fans and some even went to work with them during the offseason. Sports are now specialized, just like team lineups.
Runners, Cyclists, Swimmers, Speed Skaters, not everyone is packing on weight left and right. Hogwash on all this bigger human stuff too. I don't care if people are getting taller or not, human organs are a product of millions of years of evolution...kind of a big leap to think we closed the gap in 25 years, but what the heck do I know? I'm glad you all posted in here, and I think its a topic you will hear more of at some point.
Humans are bigger...there is plenty of evidance to support that fact. Biologically, you're born with a range of values in height/weight that you can potentially reach. Nutrition, especially when young, has a big impact on where in your range you'll end up. But the body's growth is also dictated by the hormones your body produces. The data is a little bit more debateable here, but the bottom line is that genetics and nutrition alone don't adequately explain the sharp rise in average height and weight over the last 70 or so years, and especially over the last 40 years. That sharp rise seems correlated to the increase in the use of steroids in our meat supply. This theory is in turn supported by the fact that, in regions of the world where meats are not articially enhanced, human size has not seen nearly as much increase. (Unfortunately, people in these areas have had less nutrition on average too, complicating the data.)We are bigger then ever in known history...and there are some very real NEGATIVE effects coming. Some have estimated that half of American children born today will develope diabeties at some point in their lives. HALF. As I said...this bigness is not just an NFL problem...it's a very real (world-wide) problem that happens to be worst in America.
 
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Rather than ask if this is a good idea or not, most will likely be against it. I think a better idea is simply to discuss what the impact would be. I've seen guys like Brad Culpepper, former DT from the TB Bucs and now successful lawyer in the Bay area, he went from about 280-290 lbs down to I believe he clocks in at just about 200 give or take a few pounds now. He knew he could not live a long life if he continued to stay at that weight. Look at all the ex NFL football players and how big they balloon up to at times. Some stay healthy but many end up living far shorter lives because of all the amount of weight they put on. Don't kid yourself, sure there are guys who simply are just big like Flozell the Hotel, but many more are somewhat big guys maybe 6 foot 5 235 lbs if they didn't play football but the sport bulks them up to 330 lbs. It's not natural. We demonize Barry Bonds in Baseball because of photos of what he looked like when he was in Pittsburgh vs what he turned into in the late 90s. Well look at the NFL players today vs guys just 30 or 40 years ago. Nick Buonicotti would be eaten alive today and he's a HoF MLB...ever see him in real life? He's short and just kinda medium sized. The avg OL back in those days was about 250-275 lbs. Somewhere in the last 25 years despite steroids not being used in the NFL(cough cough) players have managed to reach sizes out of control. You have 240 lb WRs, 275 lb QBs, 350 lb OL, 350 lb DTs, 250 lb LBs, 230 Lb Safeties....they are abnormally big and they take up too much space on the field. I would love to see weight limits per position and if you can't meet the numbers you can't play.Search your feelings young Skywalkers you know it to be true.What would the impact of this be? What dynamics would it change in the play calling and the types of plays that are run? Would it benefit one side of the ball over the other, if so how? Thanks
One issue I would have is that people are just built differently. So many people could be excluded from playing in the NFL simply because of their build or size. Of course, that's not necessarily a bad thing, since a lot of people are currently excluded from playing in the NFL because they are too small. It would just be a slightly different set of people playing. As an example, I have a brother in law (or maybe he is called step brother in law) who is 6' 8" tall. When I first met him, he was in high school and probably weighed over 400 lbs. He was by far the biggest person I had ever met. He actually went on to college and then play a couple of years in the NFL. When I met him later, he was solid muscle. Pro-football-reference.com lists him at 335 lbs. My point is that 335 lbs would be grossly overweight on a lot of people, but not this guy.As to the original question, a lot of football is a combination of size and speed. So if there is a weight limit on size, my guess is there would be bigger premium on speed and athletism. Even for positions like OL and DL.
 
NFL players have raised concerns about being blood-tested for use of human growth hormone and their union had not agreed to the measure as negotiations on pro football's labor deal continued Thursday according to Mark Maske of the Washington Post.

The players' reluctance to agree to blood-testing for HGH, proposed by the league, was the last remaining obstacle to the players' final ratification of their 10-year collective bargaining agreement with the NFL as of late Thursday morning.

According to a source familiar with talks, the players agree to continue discussions on HGH test ing over the next 30 to 60 days, said that person, who spoke under the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the deliberations.

The person stressed that players are not against testing for HGH. But they want assurances that the blood test is accurate and scientifically reliable, the person said. They also want to sufficient input into the process under which the testing program would be implemented.

I would love to see it tested for and also see it out of the game. Would love to see all the players at all positions come down in weight a good 15-20% across the board.

 
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Interesting revisit. The unconventional thinking appeals to me.

Isn't it logical to conclude that the unwritten minimum weight limits on linemen make line play generally less athletic than it could be? In other words, since the first requirement of a lineman is to weigh something very close to 300 pounds, the position has already significantly narrowed the talent pool before ever considering athleticism.

With many, maybe millions, more in the pool of men who weigh 225-275, wouldn't you be more likely to have greater athleticism in bigger numbers?

 
Interesting revisit. The unconventional thinking appeals to me.

Isn't it logical to conclude that the unwritten minimum weight limits on linemen make line play generally less athletic than it could be? In other words, since the first requirement of a lineman is to weigh something very close to 300 pounds, the position has already significantly narrowed the talent pool before ever considering athleticism.

With many, maybe millions, more in the pool of men who weigh 225-275, wouldn't you be more likely to have greater athleticism in bigger numbers?
I don't think I could say it much better than what you said. I believe the product would actually get better, yes.
 
So they have taken away the big hits in the NFL and still the players are falling down left and right. Sooner or later the answer is going to become clear to everyone. I never heard of an ACL tear back in the day but now they step wrong and they are out for the season...joints can only handle so much.

 
So they have taken away the big hits in the NFL and still the players are falling down left and right. Sooner or later the answer is going to become clear to everyone. I never heard of an ACL tear back in the day but now they step wrong and they are out for the season...joints can only handle so much.
Huh? Lets take the most recent one, Jamaal Charles. 5' 11" 200 lbs.Lets compare him to one, "back in the day." Gale Sayers (who tore his right ACL) 6' 0" 200lbs.

As for your belief that ACL injuries are a recent occurrence, perhaps this would be useful reading. ACL injuries were isolated in the early 1800's and surgeries were being performed on the ACL by 1895.

I haven't seen any studies that indicate non-contact ligament injuries have increased, except for the increase in these types of injuries attributable to turf.

The main concern when it comes to a rise injuries is in MTBI, but part of that rise is attributable to better reporting procedures. My link

Your rule would most likely apply to the hogs, but this graph shows, that with the exception of defensive tackles, the most injured position groups are those which would likely fall outside of your weight restriction. In fact, offensive linemen are the least likely position groups (C, G and OT) to suffer injuries catastrophic enough to lead to the IR.

If you want to reduce ligament injuries, perhaps you should mandate weight increases for running backs. That way they wouldn't be quick enough to perform the violent cuts that often cause ligament rupture.

 
Odibe, the problem is Charles weighs 200 and the majority of the guys hitting him weigh 250-300+...today it might not have factored as much in his injury but it certainly is a factor in many other injuries beyond just ACL tears. Guys used to play this game with leather helmets...in fact I would like to see the helmets go back to leather and most of the pads taken off of them.

It's not a popular view and probably why I'm not on staff(inside joke for Odibe) but I maintain that the weights of the players skyrocketed once they outlawed steroids and the data is pretty spot on. Just the way the weight has increased in the last 20 years, guys used to weigh about 250 on the OL, now 300+ is standard. And we see that some of the guys that weigh 280-290 along the OL and are deemed a little more mobile or athletic many times are the best OLineman in the league.

It's fine to disagree, I understand. Bones are about the same, they didn't suddenly grow in the last 20 years, joints the same, but weight have skyrocketed.

 
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This past week Roger Goodell spoke at Harvard University

Washington Post





By Associated Press, Updated: Saturday, November 17, 5:54 PM

Roger Goodell’s timing seemed odd, with his Harvard School of Public Health speech on player safety coming after a week in which three starting NFL quarterbacks were knocked out of games with concussions.

No matter, because the NFL commissioner is nothing if not a spin doctor extraordinaire. He cited the fact the quarterbacks were all removed from games as evidence of the progress the NFL has made in identifying head injuries and trying to limit their impact.

“The simple truth is that any physical activity comes with risk and reward,” Goodell said. “Head injuries occur in sports.”

They do, though the NFL sure took a long time to admit it. For years the league insisted there was no link between what happened on Sundays on the field and what happened to the brains of players afterward.

The culture has changed, and Goodell wastes no chance to remind us of that. His speech Thursday night touched on everything from player safety in the days before the NFL even existed (18 college players died in 1904 alone) to what the league might be doing in the near future (different helmets for each position, weight limits on kickoff teams) to help prevent devastating head injuries.

The NFL is helping fund studies on concussions, giving $30 million to the National Institutes of Health and teaming with players for another $100 million in similar research over the next decade. There are 100 former NFL players taking part in research led by Boston University to find a diagnosis for the degenerative brain disease, chronic traumatic encephalopathy, more commonly known as CTE.

New kickoff rules are working to reduce concussions, and others are under consideration. Violent collisions will always be the attraction of the game just as knockouts are in boxing, but it’s Goodell’s contention that big hits can be managed more safely without changing the game so much that fans won’t watch.

Meanwhile, not a game goes by without someone in the announcer’s booth talking about the dangers of helmet-to-helmet hits.

“Players and coaches have adjusted. They always do,” Goodell said. “We now see fewer dangerous hits to the head and noticeable changes in the way the game is being played.”

The good news for today’s players is that there have been some real changes and they’ll have a better chance of having a decent life after football than players did before them. That’s especially true when it comes to the condition of their brains, though the risk of long term injury remains very real.

Football is still a hurt business, and always will be. Nothing will make it completely safe, especially in an era when players seem to get bigger and faster every year.

But there might come a day when there’s enough research and information available so a parent can make a decision on whether their child plays football or not. There might be a time when players themselves can assess their future health risks and decide whether to continue their careers.

That will be good for the game itself, and certainly good for the NFL, which rode the wave of big hits to become by far the most popular sport in the country. No one can guarantee player safety, but it’s hard to argue with the league itself making it a priority.

Left unsaid in Goodell’s speech, though, was what to do with the players of the past. Not the college players of 1904, but the NFL players of recent decades.

Goodell didn’t mention them, and with good reason. Thousands of them are suing the NFL over brain-related injuries, and the NFL is fighting them with all the lawyers it can muster at every turn.

These aren’t just practice squad members or fringe players trying to cash in on short careers. There are some big names among the 3,500 plaintiffs, including Tony Dorsett and at least 26 members of the Pro Football Hall of Fame. One of the plaintiffs, former Atlanta Falcons safety Ray Easterling, committed suicide in April at age 62, and an autopsy found he had CTE.

His widow and the other plaintiffs claim the NFL not only exposed players to risk they shouldn’t have taken, but deceived them and club doctors by insisting repeatedly that head trauma carried little long-term risk.

“On the NFL’s watch, football has become the site of perhaps the gravest health crisis in the history of sports,” lawyers for the former players argued in motions last month asking a judge to reject the NFL’s efforts to dismiss their suits.

The suits have the potential of costing the NFL money, and lots of it. That’s why the league has fought them so hard, no matter how at odds the stance is with the current push toward safer play.

One of Goodell’s mantras in his speech at Harvard was that the game is evolving, and for the better. Change, he said, can only improve the sport and the league along with it.

He’s right about that. But there’s something else the NFL can change, too.

Doing something to improve the lives of the guys who helped get the league where it is today would be a good place to start.

 
I guess I'l be the one to tell it like it is...Who cares? Let them weigh 500 pounds, let them take steroids, let them play through injuries that should keep them off the field... as a fan, I just want to be entertained by football being played at the highest level possible. To hell with the consequences to the players; they're getting paid millions of dollars, and no one is forcing them to do it anyway.The cold, hard truth.
thats just ignorant lol
"Good, you've pinpointed it. Step two is washing it out."
 
This past week Roger Goodell spoke at Harvard University

Washington Post





By Associated Press, Updated: Saturday, November 17, 5:54 PM

Roger Goodell’s timing seemed odd, with his Harvard School of Public Health speech on player safety coming after a week in which three starting NFL quarterbacks were knocked out of games with concussions.

No matter, because the NFL commissioner is nothing if not a spin doctor extraordinaire. He cited the fact the quarterbacks were all removed from games as evidence of the progress the NFL has made in identifying head injuries and trying to limit their impact.

“The simple truth is that any physical activity comes with risk and reward,” Goodell said. “Head injuries occur in sports.”

They do, though the NFL sure took a long time to admit it. For years the league insisted there was no link between what happened on Sundays on the field and what happened to the brains of players afterward.

The culture has changed, and Goodell wastes no chance to remind us of that. His speech Thursday night touched on everything from player safety in the days before the NFL even existed (18 college players died in 1904 alone) to what the league might be doing in the near future (different helmets for each position, weight limits on kickoff teams) to help prevent devastating head injuries.

The NFL is helping fund studies on concussions, giving $30 million to the National Institutes of Health and teaming with players for another $100 million in similar research over the next decade. There are 100 former NFL players taking part in research led by Boston University to find a diagnosis for the degenerative brain disease, chronic traumatic encephalopathy, more commonly known as CTE.

New kickoff rules are working to reduce concussions, and others are under consideration. Violent collisions will always be the attraction of the game just as knockouts are in boxing, but it’s Goodell’s contention that big hits can be managed more safely without changing the game so much that fans won’t watch.

Meanwhile, not a game goes by without someone in the announcer’s booth talking about the dangers of helmet-to-helmet hits.

“Players and coaches have adjusted. They always do,” Goodell said. “We now see fewer dangerous hits to the head and noticeable changes in the way the game is being played.”

The good news for today’s players is that there have been some real changes and they’ll have a better chance of having a decent life after football than players did before them. That’s especially true when it comes to the condition of their brains, though the risk of long term injury remains very real.

Football is still a hurt business, and always will be. Nothing will make it completely safe, especially in an era when players seem to get bigger and faster every year.

But there might come a day when there’s enough research and information available so a parent can make a decision on whether their child plays football or not. There might be a time when players themselves can assess their future health risks and decide whether to continue their careers.

That will be good for the game itself, and certainly good for the NFL, which rode the wave of big hits to become by far the most popular sport in the country. No one can guarantee player safety, but it’s hard to argue with the league itself making it a priority.

Left unsaid in Goodell’s speech, though, was what to do with the players of the past. Not the college players of 1904, but the NFL players of recent decades.

Goodell didn’t mention them, and with good reason. Thousands of them are suing the NFL over brain-related injuries, and the NFL is fighting them with all the lawyers it can muster at every turn.

These aren’t just practice squad members or fringe players trying to cash in on short careers. There are some big names among the 3,500 plaintiffs, including Tony Dorsett and at least 26 members of the Pro Football Hall of Fame. One of the plaintiffs, former Atlanta Falcons safety Ray Easterling, committed suicide in April at age 62, and an autopsy found he had CTE.

His widow and the other plaintiffs claim the NFL not only exposed players to risk they shouldn’t have taken, but deceived them and club doctors by insisting repeatedly that head trauma carried little long-term risk.

“On the NFL’s watch, football has become the site of perhaps the gravest health crisis in the history of sports,” lawyers for the former players argued in motions last month asking a judge to reject the NFL’s efforts to dismiss their suits.

The suits have the potential of costing the NFL money, and lots of it. That’s why the league has fought them so hard, no matter how at odds the stance is with the current push toward safer play.

One of Goodell’s mantras in his speech at Harvard was that the game is evolving, and for the better. Change, he said, can only improve the sport and the league along with it.

He’s right about that. But there’s something else the NFL can change, too.

Doing something to improve the lives of the guys who helped get the league where it is today would be a good place to start.
Weight limits on kickoffs are a terrible idea. Speed is the big factor in most of these hits, not size. Especially on STs. If you've got two smaller, faster guys running into each other at full speed, you've got just as much of a problem. Look at the Dunta Robinson/DeSean Jackson collision. Both are under 200, and they both got KO'd. Regulating to smaller players will put more of a premium on speed, given that NFL teams are always looking for an advantage. Just get rid of kickoffs, since they want to and are rapidly moving in that direction, anyway. I like them, but then again I like defense too and it seems that's getting regulated out of the game too...
 
Weight limits on kickoffs are a terrible idea. Speed is the big factor in most of these hits, not size. Especially on STs. If you've got two smaller, faster guys running into each other at full speed, you've got just as much of a problem. Look at the Dunta Robinson/DeSean Jackson collision. Both are under 200, and they both got KO'd. Regulating to smaller players will put more of a premium on speed, given that NFL teams are always looking for an advantage. Just get rid of kickoffs, since they want to and are rapidly moving in that direction, anyway. I like them, but then again I like defense too and it seems that's getting regulated out of the game too...
Caveat: this is way simplified.Force = change in momentum, and momentum = mass * acceleration. So two 200-lb guys running into each other at 20 mph produce the same force as two 240-lb guys running into each other at 16 mph. I haven't bothered to research the correlation coefficient of size and speed, but I suspect the NFL has (or will before it implements any weight limits). And I'm pretty confident that, among NFL special-teamers, a 20% weight gain doesn't result in a 20% speed reduction. All that said, you could argue that special teams coaches already value speed far more than size, so there's no need to add weight limits.
 
We should also see if we can get a height restriction in the NBA. People who are 7ft tall don't live as long. IT'S FOR THE CONCERN OF THE PLAYERS!!

Silly isn't it? The size of players in the NFL is not far off of the percent growth of an average person over the same time span. Add in how much better training and nutrition are, supplements and exercise specialization, and It's no surprise how big some players are. Is it good to be stronger? Yes. Is it good to be faster? Yes. How do they get that way? Let me tell you this, as someone who has actually played, you aren't getting the strength to move an offensive lineman by biking. I know that's hard to believe mop. Stop singling out one or two payers at a couple positions on extreme ends to prove your point. This article is probably an example of why you aren't staff. Should I go find the average size of the 1940's Bears offensive line and show why the 72 Dolphins were talking up their players to unnatural weights?

 
Functionally speaking, you cannot disbar someone from opportunity at employment in professional sports. It presents too much of a slippery slope and a legal nightmare, not to mention the PR disaster it would invite. Generally speaking, the large component of African American professional athletes in the US would say it was an indirect racial measure used to weed them out of their respective games. That alone would cause a bleeding heart liberal firestorm that would make it virtually impossible. Kid yourself not, in any issue professional athletes in America don't like, there are powerful African American lobbyist groups waiting, literally waiting, to profit off of any slight they perceive and threaten a lawsuit or pressure against corporate sponsors until they get their way. The Rooney Rule is IMHO already pervasive enough to dishonor the general integrity of the NFL ( i.e. the arrogance in believing each and every year there is a group of select qualified candidates who are being disenfranchised systematically, and these motivations mean more than profit and winning in absolute terms. )[/quote ]

Whoa. Leaving your frightened political rant aside, sure, the NFL can institute weight restrictions if they want. Coaches do it all the time. Championship Broncos team required some players to lose weight, others to gain. Some people will see enemies everywhere, like this guy above, but the NFL pretty much makes it's own rules, autonomously. Not some grand black conspiracy behind it all.
 
Functionally speaking, you cannot disbar someone from opportunity at employment in professional sports. It presents too much of a slippery slope and a legal nightmare, not to mention the PR disaster it would invite. Generally speaking, the large component of African American professional athletes in the US would say it was an indirect racial measure used to weed them out of their respective games. That alone would cause a bleeding heart liberal firestorm that would make it virtually impossible. Kid yourself not, in any issue professional athletes in America don't like, there are powerful African American lobbyist groups waiting, literally waiting, to profit off of any slight they perceive and threaten a lawsuit or pressure against corporate sponsors until they get their way. The Rooney Rule is IMHO already pervasive enough to dishonor the general integrity of the NFL ( i.e. the arrogance in believing each and every year there is a group of select qualified candidates who are being disenfranchised systematically, and these motivations mean more than profit and winning in absolute terms. )
Whoa. Leaving your frightened political rant aside, sure, the NFL can institute weight restrictions if they want. Coaches do it all the time. Championship Broncos team required some players to lose weight, others to gain. Some people will see enemies everywhere, like this guy above, but the NFL pretty much makes it's own rules, autonomously. Not some grand black conspiracy behind it all.The NFL may have to show a relation to safety if someone ever challenged them, maybe.
 
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