"What would you want for player X" (1 Viewer)

[purplehaze67]

This just happened to me in a dynasty league and I wonder how y'all would handle it.A guy sends me an unsolicited email saying:

What would you want for "player X"

This guy is a top-5 player at his position and one I am pretty content to keep, but like anyone else if the price is right, he's gone.My reply:

I'm not really shopping "X" and don't have a specific value in mind...most likely if I were to move him, I'd be looking for a combo of young players and picks.

Even though I have no specific interest in trading this player, I've at least let the guy know in general terms what I'd be looking for. IMO, that should be enough for the guy to at least get a preliminary offer on the table. But no. His response:

Like what would you want?

What? He wants this player, he must have some idea of his worth, I told him at a high level what I'd need to do a trade, but I now have to actually generate the proposal? How about if you want him, you do the legwork? My reply:

like i said, i am pretty happy to hold onto "X". if i were to move him, i'd be looking to get some young, high-upside players and/or rookie picks. i really don't have time right now to scan rosters and make offers. if you are interested in making a trade, please feel free to put something up at mfl, or let me know what you'd be looking to part with.

And I have not heard back. Who trades like this? Am I out of line for expecting the interested party to do a little more then asking me to create trade offers on request for a player I have no real desire to move? If that has happened to you, how did you hande it?

 

[Dreamer]

It would take one minute to check his roster to see if there is anything you want.

Do it.

 

[Jason Wood]

I get lots of offers like that, particularly in leagues where you draft with strangers. Usually I ping them back with a very lopsided offer, test their mettle.

 

[bostonfred]

Here are a couple guys I like on your team. I'm not really sure what you're looking to do. If you want to do a straight up player for player trade, I'd take player X. Otherwise, take a look and see if you can find a good fit.

Note that player X should be someone you like better than the guy he wants. This isn't a case of trying to rip him off; it wouldn't make sense to trade for someone if you didn't like that someone better than the guy you're giving up.

 

[dgreen]

He wants you to make the first offer. The reason he does this is because he doesn't want to show how much he values your players and his players. He wants you to be the first one to show something. So, give him what he wants and show him something that is completely in your favor, which will actually be showing him nothing.

 

[Zoomanji]

I respond like you did the first time.

If he still refuses to give me an actual offer I respond with his best 2 players and his 1st round pick.

 

[purplehaze67]

You guys are probably right, I guess it couldn't hurt to take a look and put up deal I'd be happy with, if one exists. His approach just reeked to me of laziness and made me disinclined to spend any time working on it. Maybe I've been fortunate in the past, but don't ever remember another owner coming to me like this, without any effort at all put into what my player is worth and what he'd be willing to give up.

 

[Zoomanji]

You guys are probably right, I guess it couldn't hurt to take a look and put up deal I'd be happy with, if one exists. His approach just reeked to me of laziness and made me disinclined to spend any time working on it. Maybe I've been fortunate in the past, but don't ever remember another owner coming to me like this, without any effort at all put into what my player is worth and what he'd be willing to give up.

If you are going to do that at least ask for everything he has, to force a counter. I may put a note in the offer as well saying "if you want the guy you should really make me an offer"

 

[poopdawg]

This is my pet peeve in fantasy football. For example, as soon as a draft is over I HATE when another owner puts messages out to the entire league non-stop stating that "he likes to trade so send him an offer for any of his players, blah, blah, blah". I want to punch these people in the brain.

 

[Ace Matherton]

I have a strict rule that whomever initiates the trade talks must be the one who makes the first offer. In your case after your second reply, I would have just said "you want my player, make me an offer I'm content keeping him otherwise".

 

[coolnerd]

Actually, I get this type of inquiry as much if not more than a solid, serious offer. I much prefer seeing an offer and analyzing actual names and draft picks.

How I handle can depend on the person. I did a minor trade with a guy this week who does this, but I know that he will move towards a deal that works for both of us so I just deal with the method.

Outside of that I would do one of the followong

1- Flat tell the person, I am not interested in trading this asset. Often I stonewall when I am busy with other leagues or real work, as this type of inquiry will require multiple e-mails and maybe a few days. In short, if somebody woke this morning a wanted to do a trade for an asset not on the market, I feel under no obligation.

2-Answer his question. the answer is not going to be reasonable. I look at like I would if someone knocked on my door and said I want to buy your house that you have no interest in selling. I would not move w/o getting significantly over market value, nor should I trade in this case w/o getting more than I normally would. This has actully worked a couple times with guys who I think care more about doing deals than they do about assembling winning squads.

3-If I am not particualrly busy, I have made the effort of putting together a borderline insulting counter offer. When the person writes back that offer is unfair because.... I remind them that the player was not on the block, and that moving an asset I don't wish to move requires overpayment, not a "fair" deal.

4-Especially in the off-season, sometimes the inquiry hits a player or position I have been wanting to trade, but have not put "on the block" officially. For example, we are going to trade-in our '96 Honda in next couple of months, but I have not tried to sell before hand. The guy who asks here will get a response asking for the high end of "fair value," but I am more willing to enter into the back and forth and move torwards normal value.

 

[BroadwayG]

"Your firstborn son."

"3 cows and 8 pigs."

 

[Biabreakable]

I think the prevalent attitude here is really snobby and most of you sound like jerks.

Yes the guy did not make an offer but he is at least giving you information. He wants player X. That is a begining half of the conversation right there. Why is this such bad form?

He is only giving you information that he wants to trade for the player. He doesen't know if you are willing to trade the player or not or what he has that might interest you if you are willing to trade the player. Would it be so wrong to give the guy some information in return by looking at his roster and seeing if there is some player or combination of players that might actualy interest you?

You act like the guy is giving you nothing when he is actualy telling you that you have somthing he wants.

I recomend saving the attitude and actualy giving the guys roster a look. If there is nothing there you want to pursue then fine just tell him you don't want to trade the player. If there is somthing you see that might work out to your satisfaction then would it be so wrong to tell him what that might be? Imagine that. You would be at the begining stage of a negotiation.

But carry on with your antics. I am sure your fellow owners are very amused by that.

 

[trollmonger]

I've done this. Especially when I have no idea what part of his team he might like to improve.

But upon receving a response such as "Combo of young players and picks", I'd either come up with an offer or forget about it. This is the kind of response I would think he's looking for. He doesn't know what you would consider so he asks. Nothing wrong with that. But upon being given that info, and still being interested, he should make an offer.

 

[JayMan]

Unlike some of the posters... I look at this and find that the other is actualy giving me some information in saying that he wants player X... then, instead of making a lopsided offer, look at his roster and take this advantage to lead the trade talks by mentioning plyers that you target in order to give X... this will help you since, now, the players you want are mention in these offers...

We all know that if he wants X and you reply that it will take A, B and C... and you have a good chance of getting A and B and something else... but if you don't lead the trade talks and ask him again what he would give... then he'll probably mention D, E and F - none that you want... and offers will evolve around these guys instead of A, B and C...

My 2 cents

 

[coolnerd]

I think the prevalent attitude here is really snobby and most of you sound like jerks.Yes the guy did not make an offer but he is at least giving you information. He wants player X. That is a begining half of the conversation right there. Why is this such bad form?He is only giving you information that he wants to trade for the player. He doesen't know if you are willing to trade the player or not or what he has that might interest you if you are willing to trade the player. Would it be so wrong to give the guy some information in return by looking at his roster and seeing if there is some player or combination of players that might actualy interest you?You act like the guy is giving you nothing when he is actualy telling you that you have somthing he wants.I recomend saving the attitude and actualy giving the guys roster a look. If there is nothing there you want to pursue then fine just tell him you don't want to trade the player. If there is somthing you see that might work out to your satisfaction then would it be so wrong to tell him what that might be? Imagine that. You would be at the begining stage of a negotiation.But carry on with your antics. I am sure your fellow owners are very amused by that.

There are two big hurdles to completing trades, especially in dyansty leagues. The techinical is finding out how one person values a player versus how you individually value a player. The faster each side gets to this point, the quicker a deal can be truly hammered out or a decision to walk away can be made. The question of "what do you want for ____?" is getting directly at this point, but calls into question who is responsible for being specific about the value...which leads to problem 2 : personality. I think this is a bigger hurdle. As you can see from this thread there are many people who don't like to put in position to be the "first" to give the parameters. This gets you into the unwritten rules of trading that you see some people operating by like the person who initiates the contact should make the first offer or even the question "what will it take." While nothing "wrong" about the question, it is one of taste and if you want to regularly do deals in dynasty people either have to be flexible in their approaches and responses or spell out how they operate during trade talks.

 

[phthalatemagic]

I ask that, just to see if the owner is interested in pursuing a deal. I also expect a vague response back and if it's positive, I respond with an actual offer, or concept of an offer.

I'd respond to this guy by sending him an offer that's clearly in your favor. You never know, he might think it's a good deal. I think it was said before that he may be afraid of informing you of his opinion of the value of the player he asked for.

 

[BoltzNBrew]

Whenever I contact someone to trade I try to put something together I think is fair and shoot it off with a note like "any interest in moving player X?" This will usually get a reply of "it's going to take a lot more than that how about this?" with an offer for my best player for his bench player I was trying to aquire. I'll reply with "that's just crazy" or "nevermind". What does it seriously take to get a deal done these days? I haven't pulled off a deal for a couple of years for this very reason.

 

[nygiants56]

This just happened to me in a dynasty league and I wonder how y'all would handle it.

A guy sends me an unsolicited email saying:

What would you want for "player X"

This guy is a top-5 player at his position and one I am pretty content to keep, but like anyone else if the price is right, he's gone.My reply:

I'm not really shopping "X" and don't have a specific value in mind...most likely if I were to move him, I'd be looking for a combo of young players and picks.

Even though I have no specific interest in trading this player, I've at least let the guy know in general terms what I'd be looking for. IMO, that should be enough for the guy to at least get a preliminary offer on the table. But no. His response:

Like what would you want?

What? He wants this player, he must have some idea of his worth, I told him at a high level what I'd need to do a trade, but I now have to actually generate the proposal? How about if you want him, you do the legwork? My reply:

like i said, i am pretty happy to hold onto "X". if i were to move him, i'd be looking to get some young, high-upside players and/or rookie picks. i really don't have time right now to scan rosters and make offers. if you are interested in making a trade, please feel free to put something up at mfl, or let me know what you'd be looking to part with.

And I have not heard back. Who trades like this? Am I out of line for expecting the interested party to do a little more then asking me to create trade offers on request for a player I have no real desire to move? If that has happened to you, how did you hande it?

since he asked about YOUR guy first, you have the bargaining power in this negotiation.Obviously,he has desire for one of your guys, someone you've repeatedly said you'll keep. when he asks YOU to tell him what you want for the guy, ask for, and expect, the moon.tell him you want player X and Y from his team and a pick.

if he's desperate enough, he'll bite. usually, he'll whittle your offer down a bit, but in the end,he'll give you a lopsided deal thats in your favor.

 

[erymer]

I have a strict rule that whomever initiates the trade talks must be the one who makes the first offer. In your case after your second reply, I would have just said "you want my player, make me an offer I'm content keeping him otherwise".

I usually treat things the same way. the only exception is when I contact someone saying " hey I am interested in Player X. Would you be willing to part with him? Once he says yes or know, I would make the initial offer since I started the trade dialog. I think some people just don't want to offer up too much initially and get stuck giving up too much for someone when they could have gotten them for less. I usually won't bother someone with an offer unless I would be happy with the deal in the first place.

 

[cstu]

I think the prevalent attitude here is really snobby and most of you sound like jerks.Yes the guy did not make an offer but he is at least giving you information. He wants player X. That is a begining half of the conversation right there. Why is this such bad form?He is only giving you information that he wants to trade for the player. He doesen't know if you are willing to trade the player or not or what he has that might interest you if you are willing to trade the player. Would it be so wrong to give the guy some information in return by looking at his roster and seeing if there is some player or combination of players that might actualy interest you?You act like the guy is giving you nothing when he is actualy telling you that you have somthing he wants.I recomend saving the attitude and actualy giving the guys roster a look. If there is nothing there you want to pursue then fine just tell him you don't want to trade the player. If there is somthing you see that might work out to your satisfaction then would it be so wrong to tell him what that might be? Imagine that. You would be at the begining stage of a negotiation.But carry on with your antics. I am sure your fellow owners are very amused by that.

The guy is perfectly fine asking what he would want for player X, but after the reply it's up to him to make an offer. The owner of player X isn't going to go through a lot of work to figure out a trade for a player he is perfectly willing to keep. If I'm interested in trading I'll make the first offer and go from there and I'll understand if the owner doesn't think it's enough. A lot of times you have owners who really don't want to trade a player and unless you make it really worth their while they aren't going to consider it.

 

[Tybeeman]

I typically send the owner of player X a private message. This is the way I gauge his potential interest in trading that player. At the same time, I'll throw few names out of players and or picks I may be willing to give up the acquire player X. This lays the ground work for a potential deal.

 

[lions327]

I don't think there is a "one size fits all" answer to this question.

There are too many different scenarios. I will say that normally, I think the owner inquiring about a player should make the first move, either an offer, or just mentioning some names.

I will always look at his roster before even responding to him. This eliminates a lot right away. If there is no deal, I just tell him there is nothing I see. If I have a high value on a player and he asks, I will sometimes tell him that if you want him, you will have to overpay...in other words, I don't want to trade him, but I will listen to really strong offers. Sometimes I will tell them I'm not interested in trading the player, but at the same time, I leave the door open by telling them to feel free to make an offer and I will consider it.

Now sometimes they ask and you may see some potential deals. I then may ask them if they would be willing to trade player A or B, or whatever in the deal. If I see a way to improve my team, then I'm not going to always tell him to make the first offer. I usually mention players who have more value than what they are asking for, mainly to see if they are serious enough about doing something. Once they respond, you have an idea if there is a possible deal.

It really depends on the circumstances how I handle this. But nothing is etched in stone. I don't believe you always have to make the other owner make the first offer. Take control of the negotiations by asking for more value than the player they inquired about. Once dialog has started, you will know soon if there is a reason to proceed.

If you automatically tell someone to make the first offer every time they ask this, you may miss out on some good deals. You can be the first to mention names, but when you do, ask for more than your player is worth (not a ridiculous amount more), that way, you maintain control of the negotiations.

 

[purplehaze67]

I think the prevalent attitude here is really snobby and most of you sound like jerks.Yes the guy did not make an offer but he is at least giving you information. He wants player X. That is a begining half of the conversation right there. Why is this such bad form?

Not sure if this is directed solely to others, or if I am in the "snobby, jerk-sounding" boat as well. But, the way I look at it is, if you want something of mine, you need to take the initiative at some point on getting something on the table to convince me to deal. I've got no problem with his first email, to see if the player was even available but I do want to see a little effort on his end, when he finds that I want youngsters and picks.If I am seriously looking to deal this player, I'm going to look over all rosters in the league and try to find the best mesh of mutual needs and this may not necessarily be with the inquiring owner. Heck, I may toss out 3-4 proposals to different owners and see who bites. If he wants a "captive" trading partner, he needs to propose something solid.

He is only giving you information that he wants to trade for the player. He doesen't know if you are willing to trade the player or not or what he has that might interest you if you are willing to trade the player. Would it be so wrong to give the guy some information in return by looking at his roster and seeing if there is some player or combination of players that might actualy interest you?

But I did. My first reply was "not looking to move him, but if I were, I'd want young players and rookie picks". He got me at a bad time at work, where I didn't really have time or interest in going over his roster and trying to determine if there was a suitable deal in there somewhere. If I were anxious to deal, I'd have done that. I'm not, so I need to be convinced that this trade will be to my benefit. That needs to come from him.

You act like the guy is giving you nothing when he is actualy telling you that you have somthing he wants.

Yeah, he did that. I'd assume most owners would have some interest in acquiring this guy, so this isn't necessarily earth-shaking news. I told him at a high-level what I'd be looking for. He could have easily come back with "well, I have young players A, B and C and all my 2008 rookie picks that I'd be willing to consider dealing in some type of package. Let me know." That would at least be the framework of a deal and I'd be happy to negotiate from there. But he didn't. He just repeated the "what would you want" line. The way I look at it, I moved to some degree towards a deal by informing him what types of assets I'd like. He stood pat and just repeated the same question again.

I recomend saving the attitude and actualy giving the guys roster a look. If there is nothing there you want to pursue then fine just tell him you don't want to trade the player. If there is somthing you see that might work out to your satisfaction then would it be so wrong to tell him what that might be? Imagine that. You would be at the begining stage of a negotiation.

But, I'm not really interested in "leading the band" on trade negotiations to deal a player I'm happy keeping. If i wanted to test the waters, I'd do that, but with more owners then just this guy. It's like coonerd said, if someone knocks on your door and wants to buy your not-on-the-market house, the ball is in their court to put an acceptable offer on the table, not on you. You are happy to close the door and continue to live there for the foreseeable future.I just don't see a lot of need to make time to browse rosters of anyone who might float some general interest in one of my top players across the 15 or so leagues I'm in.

 

[faulkfan]

I make and receive offers like this quite often.

When I make them I usually am doing it with someone whom I don't know and I want to gauge their fantasy football acumen. If I ask what they might want for deangelo williams and they tell me they would like Andre Johnson and LT then I know that this is a person that I will not be making offers to since they are clueless or arrogant.

When I receive them I don't mind it even a little bit and I'm happy to make the first offer. How many of you initiate trade talks here? Do you ever "cold call" owners with trade offers not knowing whether or not they are interested in trading? I sure do. I figure if someone asks what I want for player X then at least I have an interested party to negotiate with. I still don't have to make a deal and I'm going to do the legwork anyway as I don't make half-assed trades so I figure why be offended.

That is my approach and I think it has won me more trading partners than if I had taken some hardline stance or insulted them with an outlandish request.

 

[Statorama]

Whenever I contact someone to trade I try to put something together I think is fair and shoot it off with a note like "any interest in moving player X?" This will usually get a reply of "it's going to take a lot more than that how about this?" with an offer for my best player for his bench player I was trying to aquire. I'll reply with "that's just crazy" or "nevermind". What does it seriously take to get a deal done these days? I haven't pulled off a deal for a couple of years for this very reason.

The key is to present what you feel is a fair offer right off the bat. Examine the other guys roster. See what roster needs he has and present a fair offer right out of the box. This way you'll be armed with the facts of why you think the deal is fair.It all goes back to an earlier poster who talked about 'legwork'. The bigger the player you're looking to acquire, the more legwork you have to do. If you're looking to get Manning or Tomlinson, you better have a 16 page prospectus and accompaning flowcharts and graphs which explain in full detail why they're getting the better of the deal.Present what you feel is a good and fair offer right out of the box. Where the other team takes it from there determines if you're willing to sweeten the pot or not. You may find that the "extra" they want isn't that tough to give up.A lot of these deals are easier in Dynasty leagues, where things like salary, contract length, and future draft picks come into play. I've made a lot of deals where I got the better end of things simply by eating a large contract from my trade partner (taking on that huge Kurt Warner salary a couple of years ago still stings).Start off with a fair offer. If you think Frank Gore is going to be the freaking man this year, know that he's going to want a top 10 RB and at least a top 20 player at another position for him going into any trade talks. That puts you in Shaun Alexander and Marquis Colston country. Whoa, suddenly you're not as high on Gore as you once thought.

 

[GregR_2]

You guys are probably right, I guess it couldn't hurt to take a look and put up deal I'd be happy with, if one exists. His approach just reeked to me of laziness and made me disinclined to spend any time working on it. Maybe I've been fortunate in the past, but don't ever remember another owner coming to me like this, without any effort at all put into what my player is worth and what he'd be willing to give up.

My general thoughts1) The person who makes the first serious offer is generally at a disadvantage, so rather than being something that annoys you, it should be expected the other owner will try to get you to be the one to do it.2) I think the point I would get annoyed is when someone repeats himself with "so make an offer". So generally I think the initiator needs to be the one to take the next step assuming the other guy doesn't budge.3) The next step I'd expect from a good negotiator is to have him name some players and mention if he's willing to trade picks, but not frame them in a deal. So he's giving the other guy something to work with, but not really making the first offer. I.e: If the deal is right, some guys that I might be willing to part with include Portis, MJD, Owens, DJax, or possibly some picks though not higher than my 2nd.4) The other owner I think should respond in kind to try to force the first guy to make a hard offer. Though he can also include info about the players that were named like "No interest in Portis". But again if it were me, I wouldn't frame it as an offer, but I'd give the other guy enough info he will hopefully make one. After that, if no one will make an offer when some potential players have been named, I would let it drop if I wasn't the one wanting to acquire the other team's player. Basically, I think one "so make me an offer" is ok, but after that, if the other guy gave you something you need to reply in kind, even if it's not with a full fledged offer.I do not like it when people send lopsided crap back with no possibility of being done. I don't mind if it is something I won't agree to, but if it's ridiculous to think I would even consider it, then it's insulting. Not that I'd let being insulted stop me from continuing to negotiate, but it won't help that owner's cause with me.

 

[JohnnyU]

I think the prevalent attitude here is really snobby and most of you sound like jerks.Yes the guy did not make an offer but he is at least giving you information. He wants player X. That is a begining half of the conversation right there. Why is this such bad form?He is only giving you information that he wants to trade for the player. He doesen't know if you are willing to trade the player or not or what he has that might interest you if you are willing to trade the player. Would it be so wrong to give the guy some information in return by looking at his roster and seeing if there is some player or combination of players that might actualy interest you?You act like the guy is giving you nothing when he is actualy telling you that you have somthing he wants.I recomend saving the attitude and actualy giving the guys roster a look. If there is nothing there you want to pursue then fine just tell him you don't want to trade the player. If there is somthing you see that might work out to your satisfaction then would it be so wrong to tell him what that might be? Imagine that. You would be at the begining stage of a negotiation.But carry on with your antics. I am sure your fellow owners are very amused by that.

No, it's just laziness on the part of the guy who wants the other guy to make an offer, or he's scared of making a bad deal. It's a fact that the first one to blink puts the other guy at an advantage. If someone wants a player of mine, then he's going to make the initial offer without me telling him who I would take for so and so. I might give him a list of players from his team that I like, but that's it, and not necessarily for player X. I'm not going to make the offer for him when I wasn't interested in trading player X in the first place. I would also emphasize the fact that I'm not interested in trading player X, and if I did, it would have to be a deal that really wowed me.Edited to say that I make a lot of trades, and I make a lot of first offers (when he has something I want), and I win a lot of leagues. I get trades done because I actually try to make a trade with the first offer. It doesn't always succeed, but I try. I'm not one for dickering. I don't buy cars that way, and I don't trade that way. Yes, there might be some wiggle room, but I try to get the deal done as soon and as painless as possible. I think other owners like trading with me because of this.

 

[BigJim®]

I'm going against the grain here; I'd insist he makes an offer first. You have no idea how much he likes your player, or what lengths he'd go to get him. You may very well ask for less than he'd be willing to pay and you'll never even know it. In fact, you'll likely find yourself working backwards from what you began asking for, which makes no sense at all. He needs to lay his cards on the table first if he wants a player not being shopped, if for no other reason than to let you know if its even worth discussing. No one should be asked to negotiate against himself when he has no interest in moving the player to begin with. Let's put it this way: If you suggest something, and he accepts it outright, you screwed up.

 

[JohnnyU]

I'm going against the grain here; I'd insist he makes an offer first. You have no idea how much he likes your player, or what lengths he'd go to get him. You may very well ask for less than he'd be willing to pay and you'll never even know it. In fact, you'll likely find yourself working backwards from what you began asking for, which makes no sense at all. He needs to lay his cards on the table first if he wants a player not being shopped, if for no other reason than to let you know if its even worth discussing. No one should be asked to negotiate against himself when he has no interest in moving the player to begin with. Let's put it this way: If you suggest something, and he accepts it outright, you screwed up.

I agree with everything you said except the last sentence. Not all deals completed with one offer means someone screwed up. I for one hate hate hate the old concept start high, he low balls, and we meet in the middle crap. That is old fashioned negotiations which I don't think is all that popular anyway.

 

[Biabreakable]

I love it how many of you think that by making the 1st offer it gives your trade partner an advantage.

How is this so? You have given them information and a choice. But guess who's driving?

Also calling it lazy that the guy does not come up with an offer might be the truth, or maybe the guy is clue challenged. Personaly I like to deal with the later so I would not have an issue with it. What is the worst thing that could happen? I keep player X? I thought haze was happy with doing that anyways?

Now if you send the guy an offer that you would be happy with and he is still all clams you feel abused that you put the time into sending this sponge an offer? Why? Your still keeping your player and you would have just used that time posting on a message board anyways so whats the big loss?

 

[John Mamula]

Never negotiate against yourself. If he wants that player he can make an offer and you should go from there.

 

[JohnnyU]

I love it how many of you think that by making the 1st offer it gives your trade partner an advantage.How is this so? You have given them information and a choice. But guess who's driving?Also calling it lazy that the guy does not come up with an offer might be the truth, or maybe the guy is clue challenged. Personaly I like to deal with the later so I would not have an issue with it. What is the worst thing that could happen? I keep player X? I thought haze was happy with doing that anyways?Now if you send the guy an offer that you would be happy with and he is still all clams you feel abused that you put the time into sending this sponge an offer? Why? Your still keeping your player and you would have just used that time posting on a message board anyways so whats the big loss?

First let me say that in most of the trades I do I make the first offer. Having said that, I don't like to make the first offer if I'm not interested in trading a player. I feel at a disadvantage from the beginning if I'm not interested in trading player X and I make an offer. If I make a stupid offer asking for the moon, it does nothing except waste my time and his, so I don't like going down that road either.

 

[Biabreakable]

I guess I have learned to more often than not make the 1st offer regardless of how the conversation might start.

Just read the majority of posts in this thread and you will see why. What a bunch of stonewallers. Your leagues must be a lot of fun. It seems pretty clear to me that if I want to trade I am going to have to be the guy who wears the pants and not be afraid of giving up too much info and being taken advantage of in a deal. Which I clearly will be taken advantage of by making the 1st offer. Thats a fact. For some reason I seem to be able to live with that. ool

 

[GregR_2]

I love it how many of you think that by making the 1st offer it gives your trade partner an advantage.How is this so? You have given them information and a choice. But guess who's driving?

If you offered him more than he thought he'd have been able to get, then he is, which is why it's giving him an advantage.Just think of how many times we get threads where some of the vetoes cast on a trade were because team A had it lopsided in their favor while other vetoes said team B had it lopsided in there. There is a lot of variation in how owners feel about players. In my own personal experience I can think of multiple trades where the first offer made to me was significantly better than what I thought I could get out of them. Even to the point where I wouldn't have made them that offer as my initial because I'd have thought it was bordering on lopsided.

 

[JohnnyU]

I guess I have learned to more often than not make the 1st offer regardless of how the conversation might start.

Just read the majority of posts in this thread and you will see why. What a bunch of stonewallers. Your leagues must be a lot of fun. It seems pretty clear to me that if I want to trade I am going to have to be the guy who wears the pants and not be afraid of giving up too much info and being taken advantage of in a deal. Which I clearly will be taken advantage of by making the 1st offer. Thats a fact. For some reason I seem to be able to live with that. ool

No one says that you have to be taken advantage of by making the first offer. If someone has a player I covet, then I will try to get the trade done on the first offer made by me. There might be some wiggle room, but it's usually painless. If he values that player more than I'm willing to give, then it's thanks, but no thanks. That's also painless.

 

[Biabreakable]

No one says that you have to be taken advantage of by making the first offer.

If you read upthread I think people have said exactly that. Which I find pretty funny.

 

[coolnerd]

I guess I have learned to more often than not make the 1st offer regardless of how the conversation might start.

Just read the majority of posts in this thread and you will see why. What a bunch of stonewallers. Your leagues must be a lot of fun. It seems pretty clear to me that if I want to trade I am going to have to be the guy who wears the pants and not be afraid of giving up too much info and being taken advantage of in a deal. Which I clearly will be taken advantage of by making the 1st offer. Thats a fact. For some reason I seem to be able to live with that. ool

I play in leagues with a few of the guys who posted in this thread and for the most part none of them trade for the sake of trading and are reasonable to deal with. I make on average about 5-7 trades per calendar year for each league I am in; more than enough action for my tastes. My goal is to win, if that means that I have to stonewall someone who wants trade when I don't, so be it.

 

[Biabreakable]

I love it how many of you think that by making the 1st offer it gives your trade partner an advantage.How is this so? You have given them information and a choice. But guess who's driving?

If you offered him more than he thought he'd have been able to get, then he is, which is why it's giving him an advantage.Just think of how many times we get threads where some of the vetoes cast on a trade were because team A had it lopsided in their favor while other vetoes said team B had it lopsided in there. There is a lot of variation in how owners feel about players. In my own personal experience I can think of multiple trades where the first offer made to me was significantly better than what I thought I could get out of them. Even to the point where I wouldn't have made them that offer as my initial because I'd have thought it was bordering on lopsided.

Oh I agree with you in that what some people will find acceptable really suprises me sometimes.I have seen owners accept offers that I would never even dream of suggesting because at least to me the deal seems way too lopsided.But what do I know? Thats just like.. my opinion man.That being said I do not think by making the 1st offer I will be taken advantage of. I can take care of myself. I have no problem with saying no.But then again I am one of those moon shooters who expects to meet you in the middle.I am old fashioned I know.

 

[FunkyPlutos]

"Your firstborn son.""3 cows and 8 pigs."

Are you saying that my firstborn son is only worth 3 cows and 8 pigs????? Seriously, I would much rather get this offer than one where I make the first offer and I get a rejection...a rejection...and nothing else...that drives me nuts! I don't know if the guy is interested in my offer - wants to move him or anything else!?!?!I usually make an offer that I think is fair, but maybe a little in my favor (people always have different ideas on value, so what I think is a good deal for me, he (or she) might think it is a good idea for him/her) and see what happens. I just can't handle people that reject and won't say why they rejected (not interested in player X, that's too much but.., or anything along those lines).

 

[BigJim®]

I guess I have learned to more often than not make the 1st offer regardless of how the conversation might start.

Just read the majority of posts in this thread and you will see why. What a bunch of stonewallers. Your leagues must be a lot of fun. It seems pretty clear to me that if I want to trade I am going to have to be the guy who wears the pants and not be afraid of giving up too much info and being taken advantage of in a deal. Which I clearly will be taken advantage of by making the 1st offer. Thats a fact. For some reason I seem to be able to live with that. ool

There's a big difference between never making the first offer and not accommodating "how much is the bare minimum I'd have to part with to get your guy" querries. Let's be honest, that's what it is.

 

[Biabreakable]

I guess I have learned to more often than not make the 1st offer regardless of how the conversation might start.

Just read the majority of posts in this thread and you will see why. What a bunch of stonewallers. Your leagues must be a lot of fun. It seems pretty clear to me that if I want to trade I am going to have to be the guy who wears the pants and not be afraid of giving up too much info and being taken advantage of in a deal. Which I clearly will be taken advantage of by making the 1st offer. Thats a fact. For some reason I seem to be able to live with that. ool

There's a big difference between never making the first offer and not accommodating "how much is the bare minimum I'd have to part with to get your guy" querries. Let's be honest, that's what it is.

The guy seeking player X?Or the guys in this thread playing thier cards close to the vest?

 

[Mapmaker]

Personally I enjoy the give and take of a trade, either if I've initiated the talks or if it's been proposed as a realistic starting point (X for Y ... interested) or if it comes as the OP's did ...

Once our teams are drafted what else is more fun during the season than working the WW and or trade avenues to better our teams in hope of building a winner?

I've had several leaguemates tell me they don't do trades of draft picks and have walked them painlessly through the process by being known as a fair trader and not a rip-off-artist.

If I want a player badly enough I'm not afraid to come out on the short end of a deal if I feel it will better my teams chances in the long run ... and by giving a little more than some perceive as required I soon become a known entity in the league as someone who is willing to make a deal ... that's always a good thing in my minds eye!

There can be several reasons the person behind the " what do you want for player X " statement ... it never hurts to take the time to try and find out if you can work that to your advantage and better your team ...

 

[-OZ-]

I think the prevalent attitude here is really snobby and most of you sound like jerks.Yes the guy did not make an offer but he is at least giving you information. He wants player X. That is a begining half of the conversation right there. Why is this such bad form?He is only giving you information that he wants to trade for the player. He doesen't know if you are willing to trade the player or not or what he has that might interest you if you are willing to trade the player. Would it be so wrong to give the guy some information in return by looking at his roster and seeing if there is some player or combination of players that might actualy interest you?You act like the guy is giving you nothing when he is actualy telling you that you have somthing he wants.I recomend saving the attitude and actualy giving the guys roster a look. If there is nothing there you want to pursue then fine just tell him you don't want to trade the player. If there is somthing you see that might work out to your satisfaction then would it be so wrong to tell him what that might be? Imagine that. You would be at the begining stage of a negotiation.But carry on with your antics. I am sure your fellow owners are very amused by that.

No, it's just laziness on the part of the guy who wants the other guy to make an offer, or he's scared of making a bad deal. It's a fact that the first one to blink puts the other guy at an advantage. If someone wants a player of mine, then he's going to make the initial offer without me telling him who I would take for so and so. I might give him a list of players from his team that I like, but that's it, and not necessarily for player X. I'm not going to make the offer for him when I wasn't interested in trading player X in the first place. I would also emphasize the fact that I'm not interested in trading player X, and if I did, it would have to be a deal that really wowed me.Edited to say that I make a lot of trades, and I make a lot of first offers (when he has something I want), and I win a lot of leagues. I get trades done because I actually try to make a trade with the first offer. It doesn't always succeed, but I try. I'm not one for dickering. I don't buy cars that way, and I don't trade that way. Yes, there might be some wiggle room, but I try to get the deal done as soon and as painless as possible. I think other owners like trading with me because of this.

While I agree with you to an extent, the approach I try to use is simple.I respond honestly, it's usually, "yes, but I like my player a lot, which is why I have him; but the players I like on your team are Y,Z,A,B, and C." I often include comments like "I'd give X straight for Y, X+ for Z, you'd have to give me something decent with A,B, or C." or something along those lines.Seems to work pretty well, you're giving him the info he wants, but making him work for it.One reason people ask these questions is to avoid offering a player the other team values less than another player.For example, you want to acquire Colston, and you feel he's worth Marshawn Lynch. So you offer Lynch. He wants more than Lynch because he's unproven, so he counters with Lynch + a 1st. You're upset, feel that's a horrible offer, and stop talks. However, what he really wanted was a proven RB, even an old one, and you could have traded Ahman Green, you just never thought he'd want that old RB.

 

[Biabreakable]

I think the prevalent attitude here is really snobby and most of you sound like jerks.Yes the guy did not make an offer but he is at least giving you information. He wants player X. That is a begining half of the conversation right there. Why is this such bad form?He is only giving you information that he wants to trade for the player. He doesen't know if you are willing to trade the player or not or what he has that might interest you if you are willing to trade the player. Would it be so wrong to give the guy some information in return by looking at his roster and seeing if there is some player or combination of players that might actualy interest you?You act like the guy is giving you nothing when he is actualy telling you that you have somthing he wants.I recomend saving the attitude and actualy giving the guys roster a look. If there is nothing there you want to pursue then fine just tell him you don't want to trade the player. If there is somthing you see that might work out to your satisfaction then would it be so wrong to tell him what that might be? Imagine that. You would be at the begining stage of a negotiation.But carry on with your antics. I am sure your fellow owners are very amused by that.

No, it's just laziness on the part of the guy who wants the other guy to make an offer, or he's scared of making a bad deal. It's a fact that the first one to blink puts the other guy at an advantage. If someone wants a player of mine, then he's going to make the initial offer without me telling him who I would take for so and so. I might give him a list of players from his team that I like, but that's it, and not necessarily for player X. I'm not going to make the offer for him when I wasn't interested in trading player X in the first place. I would also emphasize the fact that I'm not interested in trading player X, and if I did, it would have to be a deal that really wowed me.Edited to say that I make a lot of trades, and I make a lot of first offers (when he has something I want), and I win a lot of leagues. I get trades done because I actually try to make a trade with the first offer. It doesn't always succeed, but I try. I'm not one for dickering. I don't buy cars that way, and I don't trade that way. Yes, there might be some wiggle room, but I try to get the deal done as soon and as painless as possible. I think other owners like trading with me because of this.

While I agree with you to an extent, the approach I try to use is simple.I respond honestly, it's usually, "yes, but I like my player a lot, which is why I have him; but the players I like on your team are Y,Z,A,B, and C." I often include comments like "I'd give X straight for Y, X+ for Z, you'd have to give me something decent with A,B, or C." or something along those lines.Seems to work pretty well, you're giving him the info he wants, but making him work for it.

not enough tude there GBI like this thread.

 

[Patoons]

If you want the player, you make an offer

The other can easily counter

 

[JohnnyU]

No one says that you have to be taken advantage of by making the first offer.

If you read upthread I think people have said exactly that. Which I find pretty funny.

There's a big difference in making an initial offer for someone I want, compared to making an offer to trade a player that I'm not interested in trading. The "disadvantage" when it's the other guy wanting your player and wants you to make the initial offer, is that one would probably have to make a lopsided offer to make himself feel decent about the offer. Plus, it's common courtesy for the person wanting a player to make the initial offer. I do it all the time and it works for me.

 

[JohnnyU]

If you are one of those guys who like to say "What would you want for player X?", my advice is to post in the ACF both rosters and see what most would say is a good offer. Then you make the initial offer. If you're just fishing hoping to steal a player, and you're playing with sharks, then you're probably going to find it a tough task.

 

[Marino13]

You guys are probably right, I guess it couldn't hurt to take a look and put up deal I'd be happy with, if one exists. His approach just reeked to me of laziness and made me disinclined to spend any time working on it. Maybe I've been fortunate in the past, but don't ever remember another owner coming to me like this, without any effort at all put into what my player is worth and what he'd be willing to give up.

I guess I don't mind his thinking... why should he waste his time making offers of players that you have absolutely no interest in. If I were him, I'd inquire to see who he likes on my team, and then make my initial offer from there.

 

[Biabreakable]

No nonsense johnny

Hey just having a lil' fun here. If ya'll can't take a joke I will buy you a pizza.

As far as the original question goes I suggest finding the time in your bizy schedule to look at the dOOds roster. If he aint got the goods for player X just tell the poor guy that "he aint got the goods". If he does have the goods then start working them phones.

Or you could just start a thread on a message board about how uncouth the dOOd is. That is a good bet to have the most entertainment value regardless.