When does "doing the right thing" (1 Viewer)

[Rounders]

I have had an incident in one of my leagues concerning the McNabb/Brown/Buckhalter fumble/TD pass play.

Basically I lost the game by 1 point, then news came out about McNabb getting credited with an additional TD pass, which would have given me the victory.

In our league rules it allows owners a specific time period to contest stats. Before the deadline had passed the change in the scoring of the play was announced, however the change was not officially made with the stat service until after our deadline.

Basically the commish told me that the deadline had come and as of that time no changes could be made because it was not part of the stats (ie he would not change it manually). He was aware of the play and had "heard" the play may be changed, but did nothing to change it, because he made his decision based upon the available information at that given time.

My response: Too late? The scoring change was made yesterday. Besides isn't getting it right more important?

Commish: You asked if "getting it right is more important" (than following the league rules)? The answer is "No." We must follow the league rules.

Am I in the wrong here?

It got me thinking of how I commish my league. I always try to do the right move. We have a set of rules that we follow very closely, but that said there has been a couple of times when the rules have been bent (ie special circumstances). For example our rules say that all owners must pay their league fee on draft day. One of the owners lost his job 2 weeks prior and asked if he could pay when he got some extra money and that he would definately pay by the end of the year. After thinking about it for about a 5 seconds, I told him no problem.

I realize that this are 2 seperate issues but it clearly illustrates how leagues issues are not black and white.

So I ask you fellow FBGs, when does "doing the right thing: supercede "following the rules"?

 

[Yitbos69]

If you have rules that cover scoring changes you have to follow them. At the end of the year if you think the rule is wrong put fourth a change in the rules.

Following the rules is "doing the right thing"

 

[gman06]

I am not sure what site you use, but ELIAS usually does not come out with stat changes until Wednesday. I know CBS Sportsline will not make changes until after that. You might want to address this after the season. However, at much as it sucks, you have to follow the rules of the league.

 

[Hairy Snowman]

I am not sure what site you use, but ELIAS usually does not come out with stat changes until Wednesday. I know CBS Sportsline will not make changes until after that. You might want to address this after the season. However, at much as it sucks, you have to follow the rules of the league.

Stat changes almost always take a few days to change officially. 2 days after games are over doesn't seem like much. Looks like offseason rule voting material.I agree with the other posters. I would petition the league, but in the end what the commissioner rules has to be the way you gtherwise it would be chaos. Fire and Brimstone! Hell on Earth! Dogs and Cats, living together!You get the point.

 

[VaCatFan]

Unfortunately, your rules dictate a deadline that passed before the changes were posted by the sports bureau. Take it up during the off-season to have the deadline pushed back. We go up to kickoff of the next weeks game (Thursday for a short week).

 

[The Jerk]

In another thread, I wrote a lengthy explanation concerning the difficulty of this scoring change question. The succinct version is that a situation like this is difficult unless there are specific rules covering scoring changes and the deadline for when games become final. If those rules exist, they must be followed. If not, it's still not as simple as automatically making the change (at least to me), because most of these other changes don't get made. Granted, this is the most significant change I can ever remember, but the magnitude of the change doesn't mask the fact that it is inconsistent to make this change when (or if) nearly all others are ignored.

 

[The Rook]

i think you're out of luck on this one since the official change wasn't made until after your deadline. I agree you should push back your deadline.

for what it's worth our league indicates it has to be changed before the first game of the following week. It's the responsibility of the affected owner to bring it up. Once the first game of the following week is played (even if it's the Thanksgiving thursday game) then it's over.

 

[Mr. Know-It-All]

In another thread, I wrote a lengthy explanation concerning the difficulty of this scoring change question. The succinct version is that a situation like this is difficult unless there are specific rules covering scoring changes and the deadline for when games become final. If those rules exist, they must be followed. If not, it's still not as simple as automatically making the change (at least to me), because most of these other changes don't get made. Granted, this is the most significant change I can ever remember, but the magnitude of the change doesn't mask the fact that it is inconsistent to make this change when (or if) nearly all others are ignored.

Actually there was a play two or three years ago involving the Carolina Panthers that was changed from a pass to a run that was more significant than this change. I happened to have a player involved in that play and my opponent had the qb. The change subtracted passing yardage and a passing td from my opponents qb and subtracted a reception from my rb, but added to his rushing total. The difference in that play changed the outcome of the game. Our commissioner allowed the scoring change and the other guy quit the league.Since then we established a rule that states scores are official as of Thursday morning each week.

 

[The Jerk]

In another thread, I wrote a lengthy explanation concerning the difficulty of this scoring change question. The succinct version is that a situation like this is difficult unless there are specific rules covering scoring changes and the deadline for when games become final. If those rules exist, they must be followed. If not, it's still not as simple as automatically making the change (at least to me), because most of these other changes don't get made. Granted, this is the most significant change I can ever remember, but the magnitude of the change doesn't mask the fact that it is inconsistent to make this change when (or if) nearly all others are ignored.

Actually there was a play two or three years ago involving the Carolina Panthers that was changed from a pass to a run that was more significant than this change. I happened to have a player involved in that play and my opponent had the qb. The change subtracted passing yardage and a passing td from my opponents qb and subtracted a reception from my rb, but added to his rushing total. The difference in that play changed the outcome of the game. Our commissioner allowed the scoring change and the other guy quit the league.Since then we established a rule that states scores are official as of Thursday morning each week.

I'm not sure that the change you mentioned is "more significant" than this one, although it probably was to you since you were involved. In any case, thanks for sharing the anecdote. Unfortunately, I'm sure others will quit their leagues over this one as well.Can you share the text of the rule? I will need to add one to my leagues for next season. Is the deadline relative to when the scoring change was made or when an owner or the commish became aware of it? Does an owner need to bring it up, or is it up to the commish, or can either party initiate the change? Thanks!

 

[Kit Fisto]

If you have rules that cover scoring changes you have to follow them. At the end of the year if you think the rule is wrong put fourth a change in the rules.Following the rules is "doing the right thing"

What he said.

 

[kupcho1]

We're gonna need a bigger shirt.

 

[Ozymandias]

Given the rules you have, the Commissioner is doing the right thing.

The NFL doesn't change the result of a game because a referee made a mistake. You live with it as part of the game. If you feel you need to change the rules for next year, the offseason is the time to do it.

 

[coachjim]

I have had an incident in one of my leagues concerning the McNabb/Brown/Buckhalter fumble/TD pass play.Basically I lost the game by 1 point, then news came out about McNabb getting credited with an additional TD pass, which would have given me the victory.In our league rules it allows owners a specific time period to contest stats. Before the deadline had passed the change in the scoring of the play was announced, however the change was not officially made with the stat service until after our deadline.Basically the commish told me that the deadline had come and as of that time no changes could be made because it was not part of the stats (ie he would not change it manually). He was aware of the play and had "heard" the play may be changed, but did nothing to change it, because he made his decision based upon the available information at that given time.My response: Too late? The scoring change was made yesterday. Besides isn't getting it right more important?Commish: You asked if "getting it right is more important" (than following the league rules)? The answer is "No." We must follow the league rules.Am I in the wrong here?It got me thinking of how I commish my league. I always try to do the right move. We have a set of rules that we follow very closely, but that said there has been a couple of times when the rules have been bent (ie special circumstances). For example our rules say that all owners must pay their league fee on draft day. One of the owners lost his job 2 weeks prior and asked if he could pay when he got some extra money and that he would definately pay by the end of the year. After thinking about it for about a 5 seconds, I told him no problem.I realize that this are 2 seperate issues but it clearly illustrates how leagues issues are not black and white.So I ask you fellow FBGs, when does "doing the right thing: supercede "following the rules"?

This is just like any other rule in life. Adhere to them or lobby to change them. In my opinion the rule surercede's any other argument.

 

[5Rings]

If you have rules that cover scoring changes you have to follow them. At the end of the year if you think the rule is wrong put fourth a change in the rules.Following the rules is "doing the right thing"

What he said.

I saw the thread, tough break buddy.

 

[bjabrad]

this is why I use Yahoo as the final say. Let the league software run the league, but set it up smart the first time. IF you have issues that may need to be tweaked in season then put it up for league vote majority rule. If the majority of the league agrees with the change then initiate the change. Waiting for the end of the season is ridiculous when there is always a process for doing the right thing and getting it done right. There are even precedents for changing rules to get it right and if my memory serves me correct, the NFL or maybe it was college football,,,had to do it earlier this season.

 

[Winston Wolfe]

I have had an incident in one of my leagues concerning the McNabb/Brown/Buckhalter fumble/TD pass play.Basically I lost the game by 1 point, then news came out about McNabb getting credited with an additional TD pass, which would have given me the victory.In our league rules it allows owners a specific time period to contest stats. Before the deadline had passed the change in the scoring of the play was announced, however the change was not officially made with the stat service until after our deadline.Basically the commish told me that the deadline had come and as of that time no changes could be made because it was not part of the stats (ie he would not change it manually). He was aware of the play and had "heard" the play may be changed, but did nothing to change it, because he made his decision based upon the available information at that given time.My response: Too late? The scoring change was made yesterday. Besides isn't getting it right more important?Commish: You asked if "getting it right is more important" (than following the league rules)? The answer is "No." We must follow the league rules.Am I in the wrong here?It got me thinking of how I commish my league. I always try to do the right move. We have a set of rules that we follow very closely, but that said there has been a couple of times when the rules have been bent (ie special circumstances). For example our rules say that all owners must pay their league fee on draft day. One of the owners lost his job 2 weeks prior and asked if he could pay when he got some extra money and that he would definately pay by the end of the year. After thinking about it for about a 5 seconds, I told him no problem.I realize that this are 2 seperate issues but it clearly illustrates how leagues issues are not black and white.So I ask you fellow FBGs, when does "doing the right thing: supercede "following the rules"?

Can you post the section of your rules regarding stat changes? If the change was announced before your deadline, but not reflected by your third party stat provider until after, the language of your rule is key.

 

[slayer666]

Sounds to me like the commish did his job by the book.

 

[5Rings]

Weekly ResultsResults will be posted by Tuesday morning at 8:00am PT. Statistics are gathered from the SportsTicker service and those stats are considered the official, final stats of Unreal Leagues. Scores and stats are considered final at the end of the game week (Wednesdays at 6:00pm PT). They will not be changed after that time.

 

[Winston Wolfe]

Weekly ResultsResults will be posted by Tuesday morning at 8:00am PT. Statistics are gathered from the SportsTicker service and those stats are considered the official, final stats of Unreal Leagues. Scores and stats are considered final at the end of the game week (Wednesdays at 6:00pm PT). They will not be changed after that time.

If this is the rule, then the commish is right. Sportsticker is considered the official and final stats.

 

[Nemesis]

I have had an incident in one of my leagues concerning the McNabb/Brown/Buckhalter fumble/TD pass play.

Basically I lost the game by 1 point, then news came out about McNabb getting credited with an additional TD pass, which would have given me the victory.

In our league rules it allows owners a specific time period to contest stats. Before the deadline had passed the change in the scoring of the play was announced, however the change was not officially made with the stat service until after our deadline.

Basically the commish told me that the deadline had come and as of that time no changes could be made because it was not part of the stats (ie he would not change it manually). He was aware of the play and had "heard" the play may be changed, but did nothing to change it, because he made his decision based upon the available information at that given time.

My response: Too late? The scoring change was made yesterday. Besides isn't getting it right more important?

Commish: You asked if "getting it right is more important" (than following the league rules)? The answer is "No." We must follow the league rules.

I'm going to buck the trend................the league rule says "Contest the stat" in question, which the OP did. He can't contol that the website was slow to react to the change when other websites (MFL/ESPN/RTS) made the change in their stats when it was announced.Now, with that said, I think it'd be difficult at this point to change the commissioner's mind.

 

[Utter Chaos]

Weekly Results

Results will be posted by Tuesday morning at 8:00am PT. Statistics are gathered from the SportsTicker service and those stats are considered the official, final stats of Unreal Leagues. Scores and stats are considered final at the end of the game week (Wednesdays at 6:00pm PT). They will not be changed after that time.

This line definitely needs to change: those stats are considered the official, final stats. How can they be considered "official, final stats" at 8:00 am on Tues but not considered final until Wed 6:00 PM?

The Tue morning stats should be "unofficial, final stats" with the Wed 6:00 PM stats final.

Either way I think you're out of luck. There are some rules that don't need to be as strict as others. Not paying on draft night is a lot different than changing a score after the deadline. If you don't let the guy without money play then your whole schedule gets screwed up unless you have a replacement team ready.

Kind of like if a policeman sees you drive through a red light he may or may not enforce the law but if he sees you kill somebody then he has no choice to bust you.

 

[code]

Am I remembering correctly that this isn't the first run-in you've have this year with this league?

 

[GregR_2]

...Can you share the text of the rule? I will need to add one to my leagues for next season. Is the deadline relative to when the scoring change was made or when an owner or the commish became aware of it? Does an owner need to bring it up, or is it up to the commish, or can either party initiate the change? Thanks!

Here is my league's rule. Or I should say, what it is going to say next year as I caught a mistake in it I thought we'd fixed, doh!All games are final as of the start of NFL games the following week. It is the responsibility of each owner to verify that his own and his opponent’s lineups and score are both correct and valid. If a scoring change by the NFL that has been picked up by the league website is brought to the commissioner’s attention before the start of NFL games the following week, it shall be applied. In the event of a dispute, the final source for all stats shall be the website the league is hosted on.

 

[AB in DC]

To answer the original question, going against the rules is only right if you reach a situation that was clearly unanticipated when the rules were written, and only if it does not violate the spirit of that rule.

This case doesn't apply. The rules give a deadline for score changes, and it's there for a good reason (things have to be final at some point). Going against that would violate the spirit of the rule.

As has been said by many, you should work to move the deadline later in the week for considering scoring changes.

 

[GregR_2]

To answer the original question, going against the rules is only right if you reach a situation that was clearly unanticipated when the rules were written, and only if it does not violate the spirit of that rule.This case doesn't apply. The rules give a deadline for score changes, and it's there for a good reason (things have to be final at some point). Going against that would violate the spirit of the rule.As has been said by many, you should work to move the deadline later in the week for considering scoring changes.

I agree. Making an exception for a guy who lost his job or someone who has a death in the family is different than the situation at hand.I really don't understand any reason that the deadline needs to be before the start of games the following week. People may make lineup decisions based on current standings (like going with a higher risk, higher reward lineup if they really need a win vs if they have a more comfortable lead in the playoff race), but having results final by the start of the next week's games should be enough, shouldn't it?

 

[phillzphan]

A great leader will bend the rules to whats at hand. Look at G.W.Bush.

 

[The Jerk]

...Can you share the text of the rule? I will need to add one to my leagues for next season. Is the deadline relative to when the scoring change was made or when an owner or the commish became aware of it? Does an owner need to bring it up, or is it up to the commish, or can either party initiate the change? Thanks!

Here is my league's rule. Or I should say, what it is going to say next year as I caught a mistake in it I thought we'd fixed, doh!All games are final as of the start of NFL games the following week. It is the responsibility of each owner to verify that his own and his opponent’s lineups and score are both correct and valid. If a scoring change by the NFL that has been picked up by the league website is brought to the commissioner’s attention before the start of NFL games the following week, it shall be applied. In the event of a dispute, the final source for all stats shall be the website the league is hosted on.

Greg.I like this except that I would argue for nfl.com/Elias Sports Bureau being the final authority for scoring changes such as this McNabb situation. For fanball, they posted a message announcing the scoring change for this instance, but not for dozens of smaller changes so far this season. Also, is posting a message on the webpage equivalent to changing the totals at "the final source for stats" that you mention?

 

[Kit Fisto]

this is why I use Yahoo as the final say. Let the league software run the league, but set it up smart the first time. IF you have issues that may need to be tweaked in season then put it up for league vote majority rule. If the majority of the league agrees with the change then initiate the change. Waiting for the end of the season is ridiculous when there is always a process for doing the right thing and getting it done right. There are even precedents for changing rules to get it right and if my memory serves me correct, the NFL or maybe it was college football,,,had to do it earlier this season.

You're missing the point about changing rules mid-season...It doesn't matter if you have a unanimous vote or not; once the season starts, you can't go changing rules. It sets up a whole cluster-##### of ugly scenarios like this one...In the OPs scenario, let's imagine the Commissioner DOES change the outcome of the game. Team A gets a win now, and Team B gets the loss. Seems like no problem, right? Wrong. Now with the loss, Team B's record gives him a higher waiver wire priority. When he thought he won, he was ranked lower, and another team (Team C) claimed (ex.) Chris Henry. Team B wants Henry now and feels he deserves him since his team is now ranked lower. Should Team C be stripped of the player? What if this now effects playoff qualifications? If my team was once in, and now I'm out because the Commissioner went against the rules and changed a score after the game was considerd COMPLETED by your league by-laws, I'd be furious and you'd have one less owner.Bottom line: for the integrity of your league, save the rule changes for the off-season. Any league that doesn't is hack and you need to find a new one.

 

[GregR_2]

...

Can you share the text of the rule? I will need to add one to my leagues for next season. Is the deadline relative to when the scoring change was made or when an owner or the commish became aware of it? Does an owner need to bring it up, or is it up to the commish, or can either party initiate the change? Thanks!

Here is my league's rule. Or I should say, what it is going to say next year as I caught a mistake in it I thought we'd fixed, doh!All games are final as of the start of NFL games the following week. It is the responsibility of each owner to verify that his own and his opponent’s lineups and score are both correct and valid. If a scoring change by the NFL that has been picked up by the league website is brought to the commissioner’s attention before the start of NFL games the following week, it shall be applied. In the event of a dispute, the final source for all stats shall be the website the league is hosted on.

Greg.I like this except that I would argue for nfl.com/Elias Sports Bureau being the final authority for scoring changes such as this McNabb situation. For fanball, they posted a message announcing the scoring change for this instance, but not for dozens of smaller changes so far this season. Also, is posting a message on the webpage equivalent to changing the totals at "the final source for stats" that you mention?

Well, MFL's source is Elias so it amounts to the same thing. However, I strongly urge people not to go with "NFL.com/Elias" for their official source. I think I even went into it in the pinned thread on rules your league should cover, but if not I maybe should add it.The problem with Elias is that the fantasy league has no direct contact with Elias. They don't have a spot (that I know of) on their website that they publish stat changes, etc. So having them as the official source is very problematic unless you're going to accept phone calls from your owners to Elias as proof. The website should be getting their stats from Elias, so using them as the final source should amount to the same thing if it's a decent website.

I also would discourage using NFL.com as the final source. I had that in my leagues previously and here is what happened. An owner last year needed to either win, or have another specific team lose, in order for him to make the playoffs. He lost his game by less than 1 point, and the team he needed to lose coincidentally his separate game by less than 1 point.

This owner went into every single thing he find regarding the stats to contest, including misreading them time and again (things like leaving out special teams tackles from tackle totals) and even looking for typos. We had the Gamebooks (not Gamecenter, the place people normally go) as the final source since it is more complete. I had a half-dozen emails from him over the course of a day contesting stats and making me dig back into everything to find if there was a problem.

I know this was the unusual situation to have someone go to those lengths, but my point is, don't put yourself through it. Write your rules so the situation is avoided. I did handle it and had a "come to Jesus" meeting with him to talk about if he felt what he was doing was in the spirit of the game, and what he'd think of someone who did that to him in return, and it worked out in the end. But I could have done without the stress, and really, shouldn't have had to go through it.

So I strongly urge commishes, take the burden of investigating these things off of yourself and put it on the website, at least assuming you have a website that handles things competently. Make the website the final say and all you do is approve the stat change if they say it came down from the NFL. The only exception I'd have here is if you want your league to have some kind of scoring that doesn't work how the website does. The usual example here would be if you handle defensive scoring differently than the website, like the play where both teams fumble the ball back and forth. If so, then just be specific in what case you don't use the website, but defer to them for everything else.

 

[Wilbur Wood]

#1 Not to parse words but these issues involve "technicalities" thus, wording is important.

Here is the rule "that folks say shouldn't be broken or changed during the season":

In our league rules it allows owners a specific time period to contest stats. Before the deadline had passed the change in the scoring of the play was announced, however the change was not officially made with the stat service until after our deadline.

I would argue that a bonafide "announcement" (i.e., from a credible source since the rule in question doesn't limit sources) could be cited as the "trigger event" for an owner to "contest stats" before the deadline. Since the announcement occurred before the deadline that could serve as the "trigger event" as opposed to when a particular stat service made the underlying change. Perhaps you have simply summarized the rules and it is much more specific than that, but based upon the evidence on this thread I do not see this as an "open and shut case" of simply applying the rules and not awarding the points.

#2 Greg has a rule which he quotes as:

"All games are final as of the start of NFL games the following week. It is the responsibility of each owner to verify that his own and his opponent’s lineups and score are both correct and valid. If a scoring change by the NFL that has been picked up by the league website is brought to the commissioner’s attention before the start of NFL games the following week, it shall be applied. In the event of a dispute, the final source for all stats shall be the website the league is hosted on"

Again this rule would cause debate or complaint for a CBS league since the rule requires that the scoring change "by the NFL must be picked up by the league website" which arguably has not occurred on CBS.

FWIW, I commish a league without a rule on this point. Also our last playoff spot is based on total points scored. My team is a few points behind another team as now for this last slot. The other team had McNabb in his lineup. We use CBS. I added 5 pts to his team's total simply because I thought it was the right thing to do.

 

[bjabrad]

this is why I use Yahoo as the final say. Let the league software run the league, but set it up smart the first time. IF you have issues that may need to be tweaked in season then put it up for league vote majority rule. If the majority of the league agrees with the change then initiate the change. Waiting for the end of the season is ridiculous when there is always a process for doing the right thing and getting it done right. There are even precedents for changing rules to get it right and if my memory serves me correct, the NFL or maybe it was college football,,,had to do it earlier this season.

You're missing the point about changing rules mid-season...It doesn't matter if you have a unanimous vote or not; once the season starts, you can't go changing rules. It sets up a whole cluster-##### of ugly scenarios like this one...In the OPs scenario, let's imagine the Commissioner DOES change the outcome of the game. Team A gets a win now, and Team B gets the loss. Seems like no problem, right? Wrong. Now with the loss, Team B's record gives him a higher waiver wire priority. When he thought he won, he was ranked lower, and another team (Team C) claimed (ex.) Chris Henry. Team B wants Henry now and feels he deserves him since his team is now ranked lower. Should Team C be stripped of the player? What if this now effects playoff qualifications? If my team was once in, and now I'm out because the Commissioner went against the rules and changed a score after the game was considerd COMPLETED by your league by-laws, I'd be furious and you'd have one less owner.Bottom line: for the integrity of your league, save the rule changes for the off-season. Any league that doesn't is hack and you need to find a new one.

so you feel that the following week's waiver priority is more important than making sure that a head to head matchup is decided accurately? OK, sounds like an easier, less messy route to take for sure, but I would rather get the game right and fix the mess. It's worth the extra effort to get it right. It doesn't happen all that often either. The waiver player can be put on the correct team but at the end of the season when the playoffs teams are set, are you going to be happy knowing that somebody got screwed and that somebody could be you.

 

[GregR_2]

...

#2 Greg has a rule which he quotes as:

"All games are final as of the start of NFL games the following week. It is the responsibility of each owner to verify that his own and his opponent’s lineups and score are both correct and valid. If a scoring change by the NFL that has been picked up by the league website is brought to the commissioner’s attention before the start of NFL games the following week, it shall be applied. In the event of a dispute, the final source for all stats shall be the website the league is hosted on"

Again this rule would cause debate or complaint for a CBS league since the rule requires that the scoring change "by the NFL must be picked up by the league website" which arguably has not occurred on CBS.

So it sounds like the problem is you're using a crappy website that costs twice as much as others yet apparently doesn't have the functionality others do to expose stat changes to you and let you apply them based on your own rules.So what are you using as your official source that there was a stat change? Is there a spot at NFL.com that has every stat change? Posts in the Shark Pool? I don't recall any links to articles in here, other than to the announcement by fantasy sites. Are you going to rely on other fantasy site provides (and if so, it might make one wonder why you're paying twice as much for CBS).

I'd still rather go with the website. Every owner is in the same situation, and can go through the website to get his resolution. If the website sucks at stat providing and customer support, I'd suggest changing to a site that doesn't.

 

[Kit Fisto]

this is why I use Yahoo as the final say. Let the league software run the league, but set it up smart the first time. IF you have issues that may need to be tweaked in season then put it up for league vote majority rule. If the majority of the league agrees with the change then initiate the change. Waiting for the end of the season is ridiculous when there is always a process for doing the right thing and getting it done right. There are even precedents for changing rules to get it right and if my memory serves me correct, the NFL or maybe it was college football,,,had to do it earlier this season.

You're missing the point about changing rules mid-season...It doesn't matter if you have a unanimous vote or not; once the season starts, you can't go changing rules. It sets up a whole cluster-##### of ugly scenarios like this one...

In the OPs scenario, let's imagine the Commissioner DOES change the outcome of the game. Team A gets a win now, and Team B gets the loss. Seems like no problem, right? Wrong. Now with the loss, Team B's record gives him a higher waiver wire priority. When he thought he won, he was ranked lower, and another team (Team C) claimed (ex.) Chris Henry. Team B wants Henry now and feels he deserves him since his team is now ranked lower. Should Team C be stripped of the player? What if this now effects playoff qualifications? If my team was once in, and now I'm out because the Commissioner went against the rules and changed a score after the game was considerd COMPLETED by your league by-laws, I'd be furious and you'd have one less owner.

Bottom line: for the integrity of your league, save the rule changes for the off-season. Any league that doesn't is hack and you need to find a new one.

so you feel that the following week's waiver priority is more important than making sure that a head to head matchup is decided accurately? OK, sounds like an easier, less messy route to take for sure, but I would rather get the game right and fix the mess. It's worth the extra effort to get it right. It doesn't happen all that often either. The waiver player can be put on the correct team but at the end of the season when the playoffs teams are set, are you going to be happy knowing that somebody got screwed and that somebody could be you.

That's the catch... decided "accurately" or decided "according to league rules". The league I commish and the other leagues I participate in.. this would never be allowed.Devil's advocate on that waiver claim: Chris Henry leads Team B to the championship, when according to league by-laws, the game should have never been changed and Henry rightfully belongs on Team C. Now Team D (who loses the championship) has a right to be pissed.

There are too many ugly situations that can arise from changing league rules mid-season. Someone will always be getting screwed, whether that be you or another team. Waiting till the offseason to change rules screws NO ONE.

 

[cybergourmet]

Following the rules is "doing the right thing"

Couldn't disagree more.edited to clarify that while I agree in this case (referee error does not change game results in the NFL) I disagree in general with blindly following rules.

 

[spOOfy]

...Can you share the text of the rule? I will need to add one to my leagues for next season. Is the deadline relative to when the scoring change was made or when an owner or the commish became aware of it? Does an owner need to bring it up, or is it up to the commish, or can either party initiate the change? Thanks!

Here is my league's rule. Or I should say, what it is going to say next year as I caught a mistake in it I thought we'd fixed, doh!All games are final as of the start of NFL games the following week. It is the responsibility of each owner to verify that his own and his opponent’s lineups and score are both correct and valid. If a scoring change by the NFL that has been picked up by the league website is brought to the commissioner’s attention before the start of NFL games the following week, it shall be applied. In the event of a dispute, the final source for all stats shall be the website the league is hosted on.

Greg,How does your waiver wire/pick up order work? If you use worst to first, couldn't a change later in the week affect the order? If so, how will you deal with that.I, like many others, do not have a rule addressing this situation. I'm trying to figure out how to proceed.Thanks.

 

[GregR_2]

...Can you share the text of the rule? I will need to add one to my leagues for next season. Is the deadline relative to when the scoring change was made or when an owner or the commish became aware of it? Does an owner need to bring it up, or is it up to the commish, or can either party initiate the change? Thanks!

Here is my league's rule. Or I should say, what it is going to say next year as I caught a mistake in it I thought we'd fixed, doh!All games are final as of the start of NFL games the following week. It is the responsibility of each owner to verify that his own and his opponent’s lineups and score are both correct and valid. If a scoring change by the NFL that has been picked up by the league website is brought to the commissioner’s attention before the start of NFL games the following week, it shall be applied. In the event of a dispute, the final source for all stats shall be the website the league is hosted on.

Greg,How does your waiver wire/pick up order work? If you use worst to first, couldn't a change later in the week affect the order? If so, how will you deal with that.I, like many others, do not have a rule addressing this situation. I'm trying to figure out how to proceed.Thanks.

In many (most) leagues it isn't practical to roll back waivers, either because the website doesn't have that functionality to roll back without making everyone re-enter their bid/claim, or because FCFS waivers and/or trades may have taken place that depended on the waiver's results.If you can do it in your particular league, only 1 round of waivers and no trades or whatever, go for it. But in no league I've ever run could we have rolled them back and made things better if a stat change altered what the waiver order should have been. It's sort of like if your player's stats change 1 day after the game is final... yeah it sucks, but as long as what happened to you is the same as what happens to anyone else whose stats change 1 day too late, it is still fair. Everyone is at the same chance of being hurt or helped by it, and there just isn't a better answer that I know of.

 

[Mr. Know-It-All]

In another thread, I wrote a lengthy explanation concerning the difficulty of this scoring change question. The succinct version is that a situation like this is difficult unless there are specific rules covering scoring changes and the deadline for when games become final. If those rules exist, they must be followed. If not, it's still not as simple as automatically making the change (at least to me), because most of these other changes don't get made. Granted, this is the most significant change I can ever remember, but the magnitude of the change doesn't mask the fact that it is inconsistent to make this change when (or if) nearly all others are ignored.

Actually there was a play two or three years ago involving the Carolina Panthers that was changed from a pass to a run that was more significant than this change. I happened to have a player involved in that play and my opponent had the qb. The change subtracted passing yardage and a passing td from my opponents qb and subtracted a reception from my rb, but added to his rushing total. The difference in that play changed the outcome of the game. Our commissioner allowed the scoring change and the other guy quit the league.Since then we established a rule that states scores are official as of Thursday morning each week.

I'm not sure that the change you mentioned is "more significant" than this one, although it probably was to you since you were involved. In any case, thanks for sharing the anecdote. Unfortunately, I'm sure others will quit their leagues over this one as well.Can you share the text of the rule? I will need to add one to my leagues for next season. Is the deadline relative to when the scoring change was made or when an owner or the commish became aware of it? Does an owner need to bring it up, or is it up to the commish, or can either party initiate the change? Thanks!

I don't have the exact text, but it is to the effect that preliminary scores are posted on Tuesday based on CBSSPORTSLINE box scores. Players have until Thursday at noon to contest the scores published on Tuesday. At that time scores will be considered FINAL.

 

[The Scorpion]

We are of the opinon that if a play is wrong and gets changed the owner should get that benefit, but you have to have to have some kind of dealine. We use the below and it has worked fine.

OFFICIAL STATS

We had some problems with stats being different on some web sites such as NFL.com, Yahoo and CBS.com

We will abide the scoring on the Fanball site unless there is a dispute between box scores on Fanball and NFL.com. NFL.com is the official box score so in the case of a dispute we will use NFL.com, and adjust manually. It sometimes takes 2 or 3 days for box scores to become official. Submit any score discrepancies you may see to the commissioner and your opponent and it will be reviewed. Score corrections can take place until the first kickoff of the following week, after that the score is final.

 

[[scooter]]

Following the rules is "doing the right thing"

Couldn't disagree more.

Slavery and prohibition come to mind...